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SF1: South Africa v New Zealand, 24 October

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Post by George Carlin Mon 19 Oct 2015, 7:11 am

First topic message reminder :

SF1: South Africa v New Zealand, 24 October  - Page 5 Spring11             SF1: South Africa v New Zealand, 24 October  - Page 5 Nz_pro13
SOUTH AFRICA v NEW ZEALAND

24 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on [TBC]

Ref: Jérôme Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (Poite) & John Lacey (Ireland)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

90 Played 90
35 Won 52
3 Drawn 3
52 Lost 35
1412 Points 1745

B. Recent Form

25 July 2015
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg
20 – 27 to New Zealand

4 October 2014
Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg
27 – 25 to South Africa

13 September 2014
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
14 – 10 to New Zealand

5 October 2013
Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg
27 – 38 to New Zealand

14 September 2013
Eden Park, Auckland
29 – 15 to New Zealand

6 October 2012
FNB Stadium, Johannesburg
16 – 32 to New Zealand

15 September 2012
Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
21 – 11 to New Zealand

20 August 2011
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
18 – 5 to South Africa

30 July 2011
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
40 – 7 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA
SF1: South Africa v New Zealand, 24 October  - Page 5 Kandac10
01 Tendai Mtawarira
02 Bismarck du Plessis
03 Frans Malherbe
04 Eben Etzebeth
05 Lood de Jager
06 Francois Louw
07 Schalk Burger
08 Duane Vermeulen

09 Fourie du Preez (captain)
10 Handre Pollard
11 Bryan Habana
12 Damian de Allende
13 Jesse Kriel
14 JP Pietersen
15 Willie le Roux

16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Trevor Nyakane
18 Jannie du Plessis
19 Victor Matfield
20 Willem Alberts
21 Ruan Pienaar
22 Pat Lambie
23 Jan Serfontein.

NEW ZEALAND
SF1: South Africa v New Zealand, 24 October  - Page 5 Lucy-l10
[TBC]


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 22 Oct 2015, 6:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by milkyboy Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:56 pm

Well done to the blacks... Know how to win well, know how to win ugly.  Better team for the last 50-60 mins and deserved it.

Controversy with the try when you see the final score, but you kind of think had they needed to chase the game they might well have done so. Brave largely rear guard effort for the boks.

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Post by Fanster Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:56 pm

I have to say, that was a particularly average game quality wise, tons of mistakes from both teams, and although you expect that at this stage the nature of the mistakes were awfull!!!

This RWC has been blighted by 2 things...

Underperforming / hampered teams, and

TMO's!

SA scraped to the semi's, Aus had a good game V a strangled England, Wales were hampered by injury, France have been on a huge downward curve for the last 3 years, and Ireland suffered from losing 5 key players for 1 knock out game.

This RWC needs to be rescued by Argentina IMO, NZ win and this RWC will be forgotten as a bit of a non contest, Argentina beat them and it's been a blinder.

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Post by Fanster Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:57 pm

That said, congrats to NZ, deserved finalists you must say, head and shoulders ahead of anyone else right now!

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:59 pm

Well played the All Blacks, i guess that is why they are world champions.

I thought the Boks was going to win it, but just after half time when the All Blacks scored the first points it was a very good come back.

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Post by RDW Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:59 pm

Carter's touchline conversion on the wrong side going over making the difference - fine margins!

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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:59 pm

It's a war of attrition this RWC Fanster and that'll maybe be the take home message.
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Post by AFewTooManyKnocks Sat 24 Oct 2015, 5:59 pm

Fanster wrote:I have to say, that was a particularly average game quality wise, tons of mistakes from both teams, and although you expect that at this stage the nature of the mistakes were awfull!!!

This RWC has been blighted by 2 things...

Underperforming / hampered teams, and

TMO's!

SA scraped to the semi's, Aus had a good game V a strangled England, Wales were hampered by injury, France have been on a huge downward curve for the last 3 years, and Ireland suffered from losing 5 key players for 1 knock out game.

This RWC needs to be rescued by Argentina IMO, NZ win and this RWC will be forgotten as a bit of a non contest, Argentina beat them and it's been a blinder.

Agreed regarding this semi final. Although some of the defense was immense.
A lot of the issue for my mind was the fact the Boks didn't play any rugby. They were strictly playing for penalties. This approach is a blight on the game. A spectacle it does not make


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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:01 pm

Yeah the boks unashamedly mauled and kicked penalties and that was it.
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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:02 pm

And the ref was pedantic and played into their hands. Glad Garcia probably won't be reffing next week.
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Post by AFewTooManyKnocks Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:03 pm

Bring on Arg v Aus!!

Also great to see the comraderie between Steve Hansen and Meyer.mtrue respect shown at the end there

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Carter's touchline conversion on the wrong side going over making the difference - fine margins!

Had 2 attempts for it though.

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Post by Fanster Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:09 pm

ebop wrote:It's a war of attrition this RWC Fanster and that'll maybe be the take home message.

I think your right, bt I think the war of attrition has come from those teams who have struggled to impliment what they were trying to do...

SA were playing a wider more sophisticated game going in, pretty unsuccesfully tbh, then reverted to what they do.

Wales attacking threat was nullified by a stupid number of injuries, so reverted to route one.

Australia thus far looked ok, well against Uruguay and England, but when under a bit of pressure played within themselves.

After the nightmare France win Ireland lost too many players and essentially stopped playing v Argentina, and then tried to brutalise their way thrugh.

France and England were just clueless!!!

NZ are really the only team who have blended brutality with their actual gameplan, most other teams have tried to use brutality because they have failed elsewhere!

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Post by whocares Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:19 pm

Am disapointed by the boks specially during the start of the 2nd half. They had an extra and a couple of times it was "on" but pollard prefered to kick a bit aimlessly. Not a good plan to force ABs to commit mistakes in my opinion. Still it was closer than what I expected so kudos to them. Overall a good win for NZ despite the bad conditions and a good game from Garces who has shown some progress in the last year or so.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:51 pm

ebop wrote:And the ref was pedantic and played into their hands. Glad Garcia probably won't be reffing next week.

The referee was excellent and rightly penalised NZ when required. In fact he could have blown more, to say they were playing on the edge of the law is being extremely kind. Some people may say cheating?

They definitely deserved the win though. Totally dominant, despite all the errors and penalties.

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Post by RDW Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:51 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Carter's touchline conversion on the wrong side going over making the difference - fine margins!

Had 2 attempts for it though.

Not that one, the other one!

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 24 Oct 2015, 6:52 pm

When the ABs play the Springboks, you always know whats coming and today they didnt disappoint.

That was a huge battle today by both forward packs, the Springboks did what they do best.

Will we ever know what might have been if the ref hadnt reversed that penalty on the Matfield neck hold penalty?

By the way I applaud the awarding of man of the match to Ben Smith, that was a combination of bravery, class and skill that he showed today.


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Post by milkyboy Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:04 pm

On the ref I thought garces got more right than wrong today. The only howler was the forward pass for the try that he was right in line with and didn't even check upstairs. So the one big decision went the all blacks way. Arguably two if you factor in the significance of the matfield reversal.

At the end of the day all sides push their luck... When people accuse McCaw etc of getting away with murder it's really a compliment. Today they didn't/couldn't adapt to garces' interpretation like you would expect them to.

The right team won though, and better for the tournament that the side that plays the best rugby (though we didn't see too much of it today) makes the final.

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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:10 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
ebop wrote:And the ref was pedantic and played into their hands. Glad Garcia probably won't be reffing next week.

The referee was excellent and rightly penalised NZ when required. In fact he could have blown more, to say they were playing on the edge of the law is being extremely kind. Some people may say cheating?

They definitely deserved the win though. Totally dominant, despite all the errors and penalties.
Yeah don't get me wrong. Garces was very good at spotting infringements, too good. I'm only looking at it from a spectacle standpoint. It was a horrible game to watch. It was a classic tight RWC knockout match and the ref was all over it. Garces did pretty well if the instruction was to ping everything. He had no howlers that I can recall so he can be happy.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:19 pm


Just on the referee, I dont know what forwrd pass people on here are talking about, presuming it could only be the ball from Mccaw to Coles, one has to realise that Coles reached behind him to take that ball, the pass was flat, nothing wrong with it, Or was there some other pass I missed?

I had no problems with the referee across the 80 minutes, and no one could accuse him of being unfair, if I had a concern, it would be his knowledge, especially on players in front off the kicker not retiring the 10 metres when the kick doesnt go ten metres, and tackled players playing the ball on the ground..


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Post by kingraf Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:20 pm

Pretty much went as expected. Fought them close, but never ever looked like winning
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Post by milkyboy Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:20 pm

You don't think the forward pass for the first try and not even reviewing it was a howler?

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:22 pm

milkyboy wrote:You don't think the forward pass for the first try and not even reviewing it was a howler?

Are you talking about the ball to Kaino?

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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:24 pm

Didn't look forward from the overhead camera angle to me milkyboy. Will have another look at it though.
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Post by AFewTooManyKnocks Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:24 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just on the referee, I dont know what forwrd pass people on here are talking about, presuming it could only be the ball from Mccaw to Coles, one has to realise that Coles reached behind him to take that ball, the pass was flat, nothing wrong with it, Or was there some other pass I missed?

I had no problems with the referee across the 80 minutes, and no one could accuse him of being unfair, if I had a concern, it would be his knowledge, especially on players in front off the kicker not retiring the 10 metres when the kick doesnt go ten metres, and tackled players playing the ball on the ground..

I had no issue with it either mate.

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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

Yeah he seemed consistent so that was a good thing.
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Post by milkyboy Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:33 pm

UYeh, McCaw to kaino, he lobbed it up in the air which is why kaino had to check to take it, as he'd over-run it. Maybe that helped. Looked forward in real time to me... And many others. 

Just watched the overhead, not as blatant as I first thought and without getting into too many debates about movement of hands momentum etc it definitely travelled forward... and was certainly worth at least a second look.

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Post by Biltong Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:38 pm

Congratulations to New Zealand, best team on the field, dmartest team on the field and better gameplan on the day.

Good luck in the final.
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Post by Biltong Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:40 pm

The referee wa fine, one of the few I can't stand, but he had a good game. The TMO was not so good. How Matfield's drive into the ruck was adjudged as a neck roll was simply a mystery.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:45 pm

I agree Biltong, the call on Matfield was insane, George Ayoub being utterly ridiculous, all of us though that watch a lot of Super rugby know that he comes out with one of those calls every game.

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Post by ebop Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:52 pm

Was it any different to the one by Moody? I thought George was consistent there. But it was a bit of an intrusion. Garces was also consistent in issuing the two YCs which I thought were unnecessary.
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Post by nganboy Sat 24 Oct 2015, 7:56 pm

Yeah I thought Matfield hard done by. I thought both yellow cards should have only been penalties but that Habana should have be carded for the slap down on the tryline. Nerve racking game. Bad luck SA but will done NZ, in the end 2 tries to none. Too many penalties from NZ but a bit too negative by SA for my liking.NZ kicked a bit to much for my taste but at least we kicked better than SA. My 11yo daughter picked Ben Smith for MOTM - I've trained her well in rugby (considering she was born in China). I hope Argentina beat Australia and then we ream them a new one! Go the Blackness!!!!
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 24 Oct 2015, 8:00 pm

I thought Moody's was more of a wrestle throw as opposed to Matfield just holding him around the top of the shoulders.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Oct 2015, 10:00 pm

I didn't watch the game yet so:

DON'T TELL ME THE SCORE!

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 24 Oct 2015, 10:39 pm

doctor_grey wrote:I didn't watch the game yet so:

DON'T TELL ME THE SCORE!

OK.

Spoiler Alert:

One team played rugby, the other played anti-rugby

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Oct 2015, 11:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:I didn't watch the game yet so:

DON'T TELL ME THE SCORE!

OK.

Spoiler Alert:

One team played rugby, the other played anti-rugby
Ah so. England didn't win. Again.

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Post by kingraf Sun 25 Oct 2015, 12:08 am

I wouldn't say we played anti rugby, but I do think we played a rather dull brand, which reminded me why I'm more emotional involved in Argemtina's charge than the Boks. Jesse Kriel had back to back bad games against half decent teams. He isn't a 13, neither was/is Serfontein. Both were excused because they were apparently saving/protecting JdV, but they've had De Allende inside them and neither have improved to be a damn. Matfield was unlucky to concede the penalty, but the guy is 38. Throwing him on was like conceding that we aren't in a month of Sundays going to score a try. We only lost by two points, but let's be honest, it's 2-0 in tries, lost the second half (again) 13-6, and were only really in range because of some stupid All Black play.

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Post by kingraf Sun 25 Oct 2015, 12:12 am

Also, Sonny Bill looks the definition of an impact player. Hard to see how you beat a team with Beauden Barrett and SBW waiting in the wings.
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Post by ebop Sun 25 Oct 2015, 12:21 am

Yeah it was a typical SA display and there's nothing wrong with that. SA were playing the percentages with solid D, mauls and turnovers. It wins games and almost did again. I thought SA lacked some mongrel though and was surprised at this. Hindsight is great, but I wonder if SA had their time again whether they may have kicked to the corner for at least one of their close'ish range penalties and gone for the maul / try. Didn't see much of this to my great relief because the way the ABs were conceding penalties, well...

ps. Unsurprisingly Owens has been confirmed for the final.
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Post by R!skysports Sun 25 Oct 2015, 1:21 am

[quote="ebop"]Didn't look forward from the overhead camera angle to me milkyboy. Will have another look at it though.[/quote
The first one looked forward. Check the white line where he releases it and how far ahead he is when caught.

However as he catches it behind him make it difficult to see in real time

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Post by Heaf Sun 25 Oct 2015, 1:39 am

nganboy wrote:Yeah I thought Matfield hard done by. I thought both yellow cards should have only been penalties but that Habana should have be carded for the slap down on the tryline. Nerve racking game. Bad luck SA but will done NZ, in the end 2 tries to none. Too many penalties from NZ but a bit too negative by SA for my liking.NZ kicked a bit to much for my taste but at least we kicked better than SA. My 11yo daughter picked Ben Smith for MOTM - I've trained her well in rugby (considering she was born in China). I hope Argentina beat Australia and then we ream them a new one! Go the Blackness!!!!

Habana was yellow carded wasn't he?

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Post by emack2 Sun 25 Oct 2015, 1:21 am

An excellent game and the Ref was consistent to both sides you can`t ask for more
than that.Garces has been red hot on penalties in the breakdown area.
The Scrums given the conditions they could have been given more slack resetting
rather than penalties.Taken across the whole match BOTH sides had a couple of poor
Scrums and there was little in it.
The two Penalties which were reversed Moody and Matfield cancelled each other out.
A limited game plan from the more expansive one was obvious,Boks tried moving
the ball in first 15 minutes,then reverted to the kicking game.
When the rains came NZ they had the experience to play more game in hand changing
tactics.
Both sides were brutal in the collisions a typical NZ v SA match 1995-9 has been
revenged.The 1995 side in there blazers a nice touch there in the mind game stakes.
The Bok lineout was a mess was the young Lock really fit? even Matfield was beaten
by Whitelock.
Well done both sides, to produce a game of that quality in the conditions,class.
At least we know Nz can play in the wet don`t we?Dan Carter finally gets a final Hug  laughing

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Post by Biltong Sun 25 Oct 2015, 3:22 am

LondonTiger wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:I didn't watch the game yet so:

DON'T TELL ME THE SCORE!

OK.

Spoiler Alert:

One team played rugby, the other played anti-rugby

Please tell me what anti rugby is
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 25 Oct 2015, 4:09 am


The Guardian in conjunction with Brian Moore are suggesting that if the citing officer cites Richie McCaw he will miss the final.

Wonder when the English are going to look at their own teams performance?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/25/new-zealand-richie-mccaw-world-cup-cited-elbow

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Post by blackcanelion Sun 25 Oct 2015, 4:24 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
The Guardian in conjunction with Brian Moore are suggesting that if the citing officer cites Richie McCaw he will miss the final.

Wonder when the English are going to look at their own teams performance?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/25/new-zealand-richie-mccaw-world-cup-cited-elbow

NZ herald's slow moed and zoomed in. Apparently it's his hip that connects. He's obviously following the ball and not looking the man and is accidental. Wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he was cited and banned, it is the UK, and he is an All Black. He's definitely guilty of being Richie McCaw, which is an illegal offence in England.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 25 Oct 2015, 4:31 am

I often get the feeling that most English people associated with Rugby just hate the man.

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Post by blackcanelion Sun 25 Oct 2015, 4:56 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:I often get the feeling that most English people associated with Rugby just hate the man.

Given most haven't met him, I'd say hate what they think he represents.

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Post by milkyboy Sun 25 Oct 2015, 5:25 am

We didn't play this week laurie. Sadly, so have no additional reason to pick at the rotten carcass of our World Cup campaign ( though the word 'campaign' glamorises it).

Wasn't aware that the citing officers were all English... canelion I know you had a problem with the French ref daring to ping the unpingable! Do the French hate him too?

Mccaw's a great player, always come across as a decent guy to me. I do think he seems to get away with things for years that other's don't... And that seems to be a reasonably widespread opinion over here... Rightly or wrongly...  I don't hold it against him personally. His job is to spoil, slow and basically cheat without getting caught. Good luck to the guy. It's the refs that don't ping him I have a problem with! 

Re the incident. Be a shame for him to miss the final for something that looked innocuous. If he was English and louw was Welsh, there'd be numerous posters on here calling for a life time ban.

I doubt they will cite him, and Nigel Owens will give him free licence at the breakdown next weekend

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Post by FerN Sun 25 Oct 2015, 5:44 am

Well done New Zealand.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 25 Oct 2015, 5:50 am


Milkyboy, Im not saying that the citing Officer is English, but Brain Moore is and the Guardian is an English Newspaper.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 25 Oct 2015, 6:54 am

Biltong wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:I didn't watch the game yet so:

DON'T TELL ME THE SCORE!

OK.

Spoiler Alert:

One team played rugby, the other played anti-rugby

Please tell me what anti rugby is

Not what SA played last night.

Commiserations mate. Apart from a few costly errors and that turning tide in the 2nd half I thought your guys were in control for a while there. If not for some well taken opportunities from NZ it could easily have gone the other way. Have to hand it to the kiwis for their massive composure under pressure for the first 50 mins or so.

Congratulations on the Golden Lions win yesterday. At least you and raf have something to cheer about! Yahoo
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