IRFU to spend even more money on their wages.

First topic message reminder :

Irish rugby bosses will hand the four provinces an extra €3.2 million (£2.27m) a year to combat the threat of France's big-spending superpowers.

Philip Browne, chief executive of the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU), admitted the four provinces are "all struggling" to keep pace with their French counterparts.

The IRFU reported a surplus in excess of €8.7m (£6.18m) owing to ticket sales, new broadcasting deals and Ireland's two-straight Six Nations titles.

Browne admitted the IRFU have a duty to keep raising investment into Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster where possible.

"At professional game level it allows to start putting a little bit more money into the academy system and the elite player pool," said Browne.

"What we're trying to do with David Nucifora [performance director] is to try and drive the high-performance system through the age groups so that we have contact with kids at an earlier age.

"It obviously allows us to put a bit more money into the provinces who are all struggling to some extent in terms of financial pressures that are coming to bear because of the money in France.

"We're trying to make them financially viable and sustainable but at the same time we've got to try to put competitive teams on the park. So it's about all those things, it's really around the high-performance system and player contracts where that money goes."

In the 2013-14 season, the IRFU posted a surplus of €7.3m (£5.9m). A second-straight surplus leaves the organisation in rude health ahead of next month's Rugby World Cup.

Oh, and just to add a link about spending as our Irish friends on here like us to provide such things, here is the IRFU annual report:-

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU ... 201314.pdf
http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU ... 014_15.pdf

Looks like the Irish will be spending the highest in Europe now.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fair play Marty your like a dog chasing its tail, funny to watch to begin with but after a few hours it gets tiresome.

As many a dragon has said, I'm out.

Yeah out of your depth trying to claim something that you know isn't true

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:what I'm saying, refs regularly allow collapsed scrums, players laying in places they shouldn't etc

And we are just supposed to accept this are we ?

Its a judgement call, there are times when its the right thing to do and times it not

Refs regularly overlook or miss things they are and always will be fallible if you want error free officiating your following the wrong sport

Thats not an answer. Again you go around the houses and fabricate answers. I can accept the odd missed call or bad decision, but in the Pro12 it's the norm, and it decides games far too often. Because of this, teams try to cheat more to beat the cheats, it's a never ending circle. I was at the Liberty Stadium to watch Ospreys play Munster a few weeks back, the ref more or less allowed Munster to do what they wanted, even the players were looking at him in a bemusement. The ref had a barring on the result.

This I cannot stomach anymore, it's making our league a laughing stock. Anyway, how have I come to talk about referees in this debate, I have again been taken away from the original subject by members who sidetrack me because they have been caught out.

I'm not talking about the Pro12 I'm talking about the game in general. Where is this increase in cheating? Which incidents have incensed you?

Players push boundaries, McCaw has made a career out of it and is lauded for it

It's more rife in the Pro12 than any other competition, it then seeps into the international game, but in the Pro12 there is a serious issue with teams infringing and refs doing NOTHING about it, either because they are incompetent or just want to let it flow. I watch a hell of a lot of rugby, the refs in the ITM cup are of a much higher standard than the Pro12. As are the refs in the Aviva, and the Top14.

marty2086 wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fair play Marty your like a dog chasing its tail, funny to watch to begin with but after a few hours it gets tiresome.

As many a dragon has said, I'm out.

Yeah out of your depth trying to claim something that you know isn't true

woof woof

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:what I'm saying, refs regularly allow collapsed scrums, players laying in places they shouldn't etc

And we are just supposed to accept this are we ?

Its a judgement call, there are times when its the right thing to do and times it not

Refs regularly overlook or miss things they are and always will be fallible if you want error free officiating your following the wrong sport

Thats not an answer. Again you go around the houses and fabricate answers. I can accept the odd missed call or bad decision, but in the Pro12 it's the norm, and it decides games far too often. Because of this, teams try to cheat more to beat the cheats, it's a never ending circle. I was at the Liberty Stadium to watch Ospreys play Munster a few weeks back, the ref more or less allowed Munster to do what they wanted, even the players were looking at him in a bemusement. The ref had a barring on the result.

This I cannot stomach anymore, it's making our league a laughing stock. Anyway, how have I come to talk about referees in this debate, I have again been taken away from the original subject by members who sidetrack me because they have been caught out.

I'm not talking about the Pro12 I'm talking about the game in general. Where is this increase in cheating? Which incidents have incensed you?

Players push boundaries, McCaw has made a career out of it and is lauded for it

It's more rife in the Pro12 than any other competition, it then seeps into the international game, but in the Pro12 there is a serious issue with teams infringing and refs doing NOTHING about it, either because they are incompetent or just want to let it flow. I watch a hell of a lot of rugby, the refs in the ITM cup are of a much higher standard than the Pro12. As are the refs in the Aviva, and the Top14.

Nonsense, LD. Just nonsense.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:what I'm saying, refs regularly allow collapsed scrums, players laying in places they shouldn't etc

And we are just supposed to accept this are we ?

Its a judgement call, there are times when its the right thing to do and times it not

Refs regularly overlook or miss things they are and always will be fallible if you want error free officiating your following the wrong sport

Thats not an answer. Again you go around the houses and fabricate answers. I can accept the odd missed call or bad decision, but in the Pro12 it's the norm, and it decides games far too often. Because of this, teams try to cheat more to beat the cheats, it's a never ending circle. I was at the Liberty Stadium to watch Ospreys play Munster a few weeks back, the ref more or less allowed Munster to do what they wanted, even the players were looking at him in a bemusement. The ref had a barring on the result.

This I cannot stomach anymore, it's making our league a laughing stock. Anyway, how have I come to talk about referees in this debate, I have again been taken away from the original subject by members who sidetrack me because they have been caught out.

I'm not talking about the Pro12 I'm talking about the game in general. Where is this increase in cheating? Which incidents have incensed you?

Players push boundaries, McCaw has made a career out of it and is lauded for it

It's more rife in the Pro12 than any other competition, it then seeps into the international game, but in the Pro12 there is a serious issue with teams infringing and refs doing NOTHING about it, either because they are incompetent or just want to let it flow. I watch a hell of a lot of rugby, the refs in the ITM cup are of a much higher standard than the Pro12. As are the refs in the Aviva, and the Top14.

Who are all these great refs in the other leagues? Garces?, Poite?, Barnes?, JP Doyle? Am I missing some? I must be missing a lot of refs here because all we hear on this forum (from certain welsh posters) is how great the refs in the other leagues are...Are we looking for some Craig Jouberts or Glen Jackson's perhaps? I am genuinely confused.

Have you ever been on an AP forum? They are nonstop complaining about their refs.

I cant really be bothered to read the whole of this thread but would like to comment on 2 things.

1st IRFU investment, Well done to them for putting the surplus revenue back into the game rather than treating themselves to big bonuses, I don't understand how anyone could see this as a negative regardless of if it goes on Wages or Development. Simply having a surplus for a second consecutive year tells me the IRFU are doing something right.

As for the comments around officials, I don't believe any league has a perfect set of officials and probably never will but with 4 separate unions making up our league then surely each union could afford to employ enough full time officials to cover their own teams, this would only equate to 4 jobs each for the FIR and the SRU and 8 jobs each for the IRFU and the WRU, at a realistic wage of circa £75K per official it would cost less than £2mil a year shared between 4 unions to employ good quality full time professional officials to cover all 4 roles at every pro 12 match plus we would probably be providing the bulk of the officials for the other tournaments which would help our teams out purely by the improved understanding of each official.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Who are all these great refs in the other leagues?

Why should they be named ? Do you watch the ITM cup on a Saturday morning ? Do you watch the Aviva or Top14 on BT Sport ? I do, I watch all these when I get the chance, and you do not see the debacle you see in the Pro12. In fact, the only league where the refs have a noticeable influence on the results, is our league.

LD - how many of the WC refs came from the pro 12?  We have some of the best refs in the world and anyway how do you propose to get better ones?

Its utter nonsense to suggest that only the pro 12 is affected by refs mistakes and nonsense to suggest they are worse than in other leagues

TJ wrote:LD - how many of the WC refs came from the pro 12?  We have some of the best refs in the world and anyway how do you propose to get better ones?

Its utter nonsense to suggest that only the pro 12 is affected by refs mistakes and nonsense to suggest they are worse than in other leagues

How is it utter nonsense ?

I cannot remember a game where it was not influenced by the ref in the Pro12.

Why do you always do this, you come on here rubbish what others are saying, but you do not give a valid reason why. We need full time professional refs in our league, we do not have that.

TJ wrote:LD - how many of the WC refs came from the pro 12?  We have some of the best refs in the world and anyway how do you propose to get better ones?

Its utter nonsense to suggest that only the pro 12 is affected by refs mistakes and nonsense to suggest they are worse than in other leagues

Given that the Pro12 has refs from 4 nations, and there are only what 9 nations who have refs at the RWC, it would make sense that the Pro12, as a league, would have more officials. Couple that with the fact the tournament was hosted in England (so NH officials are easier to use), there is no surprise the Pro12 had a fair few.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Who are all these great refs in the other leagues?

Why should they be named ? Do you watch the ITM cup on a Saturday morning ? Do you watch the Aviva or Top14 on BT Sport ? I do, I watch all these when I get the chance, and you do not see the debacle you see in the Pro12. In fact, the only league where the refs have a noticeable  influence on the results, is our league.

Ok now I'm not sure if you are being serious. I'm not sure if I should reply seriously here because this looks like your trolling.

Yeah, cos thats what I do.

Just to let you know, Munster are splashing the cash* on bringing in Dave Alred for coaching sessions for their academy and senior team.

(In fairness, its Adidas who are sponsoring him to give the coaching sessions).

LordDowlais wrote:Yeah, cos thats what I do.

It's difficult to tell if you're on a wind up, or not, sometimes. I mean, some of the things you come out with are simply nuts, but your conviction does seem convincing.

There's also the oddity that when you start something like this and are shown to be wrong, you don't acknowledge the fact. You just come up with another false claim. I would say that's trolling but for this apparent conviction of yours.

Munchkin wrote:There's also the oddity that when you start something like this and are shown to be wrong, you don't acknowledge the fact. You just come up with another false claim. I would say that's trolling but for this apparent conviction of yours.

Proof ?

I have tripped members like Marty up on numerous occasions, yet when he changes the subject and goes off on a tangent then it's all ok.

Thats the trouble on here, you have an opinion, you prove it, but your are still called a tin hatted looney. Like this now, because I reckon we have some of the crappest refs in our league, I'm a troll. But that's just the thing, the Irish on here always revert to type when they are shown up.

Tell us the names of all these great refs in the AP and Top 14 that have "no influence on the results". It's a simple question that can be easily answered, if indeed you do watch the other leagues. If you want your point taken seriously then start naming.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:There's also the oddity that when you start something like this and are shown to be wrong, you don't acknowledge the fact. You just come up with another false claim. I would say that's trolling but for this apparent conviction of yours.

Proof ?

I have tripped members like Marty up on numerous occasions, yet when he changes the subject and goes off on a tangent then it's all ok.

Thats the trouble on here, you have an opinion, you prove it, but your are still called a tin hatted looney. Like this now, because I reckon we have some of the crappest refs in our league, I'm a troll. But that's just the thing, the Irish on here always revert to type when they are shown up.

Proof would be good, yes. Any time you're ready, just pop the proof to back up your claims on here. Then we might not consider you a member of the tin hatted conspiracy theorist fraternity.

Serious question, have you ever proven any of your nutty claims?

You're not a troll for having an opinion, it's just that's it's more than an opinion to you, and you expect everyone else to take your opinion as fact.... because you watch telly...

Proof won't be forthcoming because it doesn't exist. I have repeatedly asked LD for proof that the referees in the PRO12 are an issue but he has never managed to substantiate his claim with anything other than that he's seen it with his own eyes.

To help him I've even done a search on 'Pro12 referees laughing stock' and aside from this site found precious little other than references to one comment by Lyn Jones, one by Pat Lam and a couple from disenfranchised posters on facebook/twitter. It returned a paltry 1780 results

Replacing "Pro12" with:
"aviva premiership" returned 30,200
"top14" 23,000
"currie cup" 88,400
"ITM cup" 31,300

So statistically it is far more likely that the Pro12 is actually less of a laughing stock than the others mentioned! So a line can be clearly drawn under that one.
_______________________________________________________


Regarding the subject of the thread, it would seem that the IRFU are doing a lot right and something others might want to emulate, rather than scrap as a beaten docket.

Good work Aukster

88k for the currie cup!

The Great Aukster wrote:Proof won't be forthcoming because it doesn't exist. I have repeatedly asked LD for proof that the referees in the PRO12 are an issue but he has never managed to substantiate his claim with anything other than that he's seen it with his own eyes.

To help him I've even done a search on 'Pro12 referees laughing stock' and aside from this site found precious little other than references to one comment by Lyn Jones, one by Pat Lam and a couple from disenfranchised posters on facebook/twitter. It returned a paltry 1780 results

Replacing "Pro12" with:
"aviva premiership" returned 30,200
"top14" 23,000
"currie cup" 88,400
"ITM cup" 31,300

So statistically it is far more likely that the Pro12 is actually less of a laughing stock than the others mentioned! So a line can be clearly drawn under that one.
_______________________________________________________


Regarding the subject of the thread, it would seem that the IRFU are doing a lot right and something others might want to emulate, rather than scrap as a beaten docket.

Replace Pro12 with

Irish - 78,400 results
Welsh - 1,310,000 results
Scottish - 68,400 results
Italian - 146,000 results

So that would give the Pro12 a total of 1,602,800 !!!!

National sides?


The Welsh

.... and what about the English, French, Australian, South African and Kiwi?

For my money, I would say 85% of that 1,310,000 can be contributed to Chunky, Philbb and LD

Munchkin wrote:National sides?


The Welsh

.... and what about the English, French, Australian, South African and Kiwi?

For my money, I would say 85% of that  1,310,000 can be contributed to Chunky, Philbb and LD

I would say probably 90% of them are about other sports to be honest. But I did type in ......referees laughing stock into google and those were the amount of pages found, which is more than enough proof for this site

I do not use twitter or facebook.

The Irish on here will not accept we have problems in our league because the league as it is suits them. It's just a means of getting into Europe, the competition they adore over anything else. But what do I know, I am a troll.

Yep the Irish in here keep reverting to type and ignore any problems.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Munchkin wrote:National sides?


The Welsh

.... and what about the English, French, Australian, South African and Kiwi?

For my money, I would say 85% of that  1,310,000 can be contributed to Chunky, Philbb and LD

I would say probably 90% of them are about other sports to be honest.  But I did type in ......referees laughing stock into google and those were the amount of pages found, which is more than enough proof for this site

Mostly football perhaps, and LD, Chunky and Philbb

LordDowlais wrote:I do not use twitter or facebook.

The Irish on here will not accept we have problems in our league because the league as it is suits them. It's just a means of getting into Europe, the competition they adore over anything else. But what do I know, I am a troll.

Yep the Irish in here keep reverting to type and ignore any problems.

You're so picked on

Have a and a from me

Munchkin wrote:Have a Hug and a heart from me Very Happy

I'll take that, Thank you.

So do you want to talk about the problems in our league ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Have a Hug and a heart from me Very Happy

I'll take that, Thank you.

So do you want to talk about the problems in our league ?

You're most welcome

'problems in our league'...hmmm..... nope. Let's talk about the good things!!!  

You start

LD - are you saying that the IRFU spending money on wages is a problem for the pro12? Just trying to bring this thread back around to the title a bit.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:LD - are you saying that the IRFU spending money on wages is a problem for the pro12? Just trying to bring this thread back around to the title a bit.

It's a problem for the Pro12 because it causes disparity in the league, you say you need to do it to compete with the French, that's fine, you see Europe as your shangri-la, but it does nothing for our league, I think there should be a salary cap in the Pro12, to make the league fairer for all teams involved.

LordDowlais wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:LD - are you saying that the IRFU spending money on wages is a problem for the pro12? Just trying to bring this thread back around to the title a bit.

It's a problem for the Pro12 because it causes disparity in the league, you say you need to do it to compete with the French, that's fine, you see Europe as your shangri-la, but it does nothing for our league, I think there should be a salary cap in the Pro12, to make the league fairer for all teams involved.

How does it cause a disparity? Is it wrong that money is allocated to the Provinces for development? Remember, we are restricted by the number of NIQ's we can sign. That cap is far more effective than any salary cap.

Munchkin wrote:How does it cause a disparity?

Because of this :-

Irish rugby bosses will hand the four provinces an extra €3.2 million (£2.27m) a year to combat the threat of France's big-spending superpowers.

And this :-

"At professional game level it allows to start putting a little bit more money into the academy system and the elite player pool," said Browne.

Phillipe Browne has said that he is going to be putting in money into the elite player pool, as well as the academy. So that means more elite players for the provinces, that will then mean the 4 Irish provinces taking up all the European places in the league, with everybody else just having two spaces left to scrap over.

This, along with crappy refs is my concern.

But how does the IRFU have more money than the WRU and how is there less spent in the Regions than the Provinces?
- WRU have more test matches each year (the ones outside the AI window) than the IRFU
- Each match at the Millenium has a higher capacity than Lansdowne Rd so gate receipts for test matches should be higher
- The Regions get more TV revenue than the Provinces from the Pro12 (and the Regions keep a larger proportion of the TV monies than the usual revenue splits)
- Wales is more central than Ireland for travel purposes within the Pro12 so I would expect travel costs to be lower for Regions
- WRU get injection of cash from hosting RWC matches and I think (but can be corrected of course) do a better job of hosting other events in Millenium than Lansdowne manage (the 3 biggest events in Dublin each year tend to be in Croke Park and that cash goes into GAA coffers)
- Millenium construction costs must be way closer to being paid off than the more recently constructed lansdowne stadium

The Regions should have more cash in comparision to the Provinces to spend.

And on spending money on developing young players does this not serve to improve the quality of rugby hopefully played by Irish teams in the pro12?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:But how does the IRFU have more money than the WRU

I do not know, I doubt they have either by what you are saying, but the thing is, the WRU and the regions are separate entities so the WRU do not give the regions any more than they need to. So all the WRU give the regions is money for the use of the players.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:How does it cause a disparity?

Because of this :-

Irish rugby bosses will hand the four provinces an extra €3.2 million (£2.27m) a year to combat the threat of France's big-spending superpowers.

And this :-

"At professional game level it allows to start putting a little bit more money into the academy system and the elite player pool," said Browne.

Phillipe Browne has said that he is going to be putting in money into the elite player pool, as well as the academy. So that means more elite players for the provinces, that will then mean the 4 Irish provinces taking up all the European places in the league, with everybody else just having two spaces left to scrap over.

This, along with crappy refs is my concern.

Surely you understand that no matter how much money the Provinces get, they won't be able to splash it all out on big name signings? We are limited, very limited, in the number of big name players we can bring in from outside of Ireland, including being limited in the positions they play in.

Your complaint would make more sense if we could sign who we want, when we want, and in the positions we want. We can't.

Munchkin wrote:Your complaint would make more sense if we could sign who we want, when we want, and in the positions we want. We can't.

I will believe that when I see it. Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second row, just for cover haven't they ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:How does it cause a disparity?

Because of this :-

Irish rugby bosses will hand the four provinces an extra €3.2 million (£2.27m) a year to combat the threat of France's big-spending superpowers.

And this :-

"At professional game level it allows to start putting a little bit more money into the academy system and the elite player pool," said Browne.

Phillipe Browne has said that he is going to be putting in money into the elite player pool, as well as the academy. So that means more elite players for the provinces, that will then mean the 4 Irish provinces taking up all the European places in the league, with everybody else just having two spaces left to scrap over.

This, along with crappy refs is my concern.

Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Your complaint would make more sense if we could sign who we want, when we want, and in the positions we want. We can't.

I will believe that when I see it. Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second row, just for cover haven't they ?

You're seeing it. It's there in black and white. We can't break IRFU rules concerning NIQ's. So what if they signed a player for cover. It's a world cup year, and I'm not sure that they broke the NIQ in doing so. Ulster are up against it from next season on, because of the NIQ. The problem being which good players for us do we have to get rid because the NIQ is being further reduced by one. We're bringing in one new player, and so two must go!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

So tell me, how often does this happen to the Irish provinces ? I can only recall Sexton, and now Paul O'Connell but he is coming to the end of his career anyway. So that is just Sexton. Ah yes, that is a mass exodus.

Like I have said, Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second rower, just for cover. It's things like this that I am on about.

Munchkin wrote:You're seeing it. It's there in black and white. We can't break IRFU rules concerning NIQ's. So what if they signed a player for cover. It's a world cup year, and I'm not sure that they broke the NIQ in doing so. Ulster are up against it from next season on, because of the NIQ. The problem being which good players for us do we have to get rid because the NIQ is being further reduced by one. We're bringing in one new player, and so two must go!

But you see, this is exactly what it means, you can pay player X from what ever country, to come and cover for the WC, injuries ect. Look at the side Ospreys are putting out at the minute, where is their cover ?

LordDowlais wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

So tell me, how often does this happen to the Irish provinces ? I can only recall Sexton, and now Paul O'Connell but he is coming to the end of his career anyway. So that is just Sexton. Ah yes, that is a mass exodus.

Like I have said, Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second rower, just for cover. It's things like this that I am on about.

Didn't Scarlets sign DTH?

LordDowlais wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

So tell me, how often does this happen to the Irish provinces ? I can only recall Sexton, and now Paul O'Connell but he is coming to the end of his career anyway. So that is just Sexton. Ah yes, that is a mass exodus.

Like I have said, Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second rower, just for cover. It's things like this that I am on about.

It doesn't happen because we are paying them the going rate.If there is a salary cap then we won't be able to pay them as much and there wil be more incentive to leave.I want to prevent a mass exodus,surely that's easy to understand?

What's the problem with Leinster signing a 2nd rower for cover.We now have Kirchner,Te'o,Nacewa and Triggs as our NIQ players.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:You're seeing it. It's there in black and white. We can't break IRFU rules concerning NIQ's. So what if they signed a player for cover. It's a world cup year, and I'm not sure that they broke the NIQ in doing so. Ulster are up against it from next season on, because of the NIQ. The problem being which good players for us do we have to get rid because the NIQ is being further reduced by one. We're bringing in one new player, and so two must go!

But you see, this is exactly what it means, you can pay player X from what ever country, to come and cover for the WC, injuries ect. Look at the side Ospreys are putting out at the minute, where is their cover ?

I wasn't aware that player x was a world class cover..... I honestly don't think it would have cost Leinster a fortune. Look at the cover Ulster bought in. Hardly top class, and definitely not expensive.

Munchkin wrote:I wasn't aware that player x was a world class cover..... I honestly don't think it would have cost Leinster a fortune. Look at the cover Ulster bought in. Hardly top class, and definitely not expensive.

Yes but because you can spend what you like, you can still bring in cover, other sides have to rely on their academies.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I wasn't aware that player x was a world class cover..... I honestly don't think it would have cost Leinster a fortune. Look at the cover Ulster bought in. Hardly top class, and definitely not expensive.

Yes but because you can spend what you like, you can still bring in cover, other sides have to rely on their academies.

Kane walked out of his contract and left the squad in the lurch for a lock. This kiwi is a complete journeyman, been around a good few clubs in NZ, might even have picked up some splinters sitting on a bench in Japan for a year or two.

I'd argue that we can't and don't spend what we like. We always make sure our income covers our costs and don't run on deficits. We also have a limit on NIQ players that we can sign and the positions we can sign them into.

But we do go marquee where we can pull it off. Brad Thorn was a class short term signing, though in honesty the squad was class that season and the carrot of winning trophies meant he wasn't as expensive as he probably should have been.

Other high profile NIQ players might have a profile now but wouldn't have been true elite when we brought them in Felipe and Isa for example. Munster got their hands on Howlett back in the day but again there was a bit of fortune there as he was picking up a rep for some bad behaviour and potential attitude which discounted what his cost should have been at the time.

There have been plenty of busts also. Though that is the same for all pro12 clubs.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I wasn't aware that player x was a world class cover..... I honestly don't think it would have cost Leinster a fortune. Look at the cover Ulster bought in. Hardly top class, and definitely not expensive.

Yes but because you can spend what you like, you can still bring in cover, other sides have to rely on their academies.

We can't spend what we like. If we had the money, and we were able to spend it on any players, we wouldn't have to bring in cover, and the cover we do bring is hardly top quality. look at who we have brought in and you will see what I mean. In fact, look at our games, and spot the players brought in for cover?

Your argument about cover is not worth arguing about. If that's the biggest complaint you have about the Provinces then is it really worth getting upset about? It does strike me as nit picking.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:There's also the oddity that when you start something like this and are shown to be wrong, you don't acknowledge the fact. You just come up with another false claim. I would say that's trolling but for this apparent conviction of yours.

Proof ?

I have tripped members like Marty up on numerous occasions, yet when he changes the subject and goes off on a tangent then it's all ok.

Thats the trouble on here, you have an opinion, you prove it, but your are still called a tin hatted looney. Like this now, because I reckon we have some of the crappest refs in our league, I'm a troll. But that's just the thing, the Irish on here always revert to type when they are shown up.

Sorry Ive missed most of the fun today but had to go to the hospital to get my sides looked at after laughing to hard at this comment

LD you claim the refs influence games in the Pro12 yet provide no examples, remind who the Pro12 ref was sent of the hooker in the final for allegedly calling him a cheat, wait that was Wayne Barnes. What about the ref who said a team had time to kick to touch before half time only to blow for half time? No that was Rohan Hoffman

LD - you touched on something a little bit back in this thread mentioning a fear or risk that all four provinces could end up getting european places, which would directly impact either the second scottish side or a welsh region.

Is this the primary angle for your concern over the IRFU spending money on development and wages?

If this was to happen, it would be Connacht who would get in the door in the last position (there is a chance they could finish above Leinster this season, and yes I'm a leinster fan saying that with real concern!) ahead of edinburgh or a welsh region.  Even with increased funding into Connacht I seriously doubt they are running themselves with finances similar the welsh set ups.

I know I've ignored the second italian club potentially getting the final spot, but I'm working on a semi-plausible scenario.

And I do think those chasing the final european slot need to worry about Connacht getting into that position because for the past 2-4 years their academy has arguably been producing some of the best underage talent in Ireland (they get as many if not more players into the national underage squads as Munster!) which will really start to show in the pro12 soon!

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

So tell me, how often does this happen to the Irish provinces ? I can only recall Sexton, and now Paul O'Connell but he is coming to the end of his career anyway. So that is just Sexton. Ah yes, that is a mass exodus.

Like I have said, Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second rower, just for cover. It's things like this that I am on about.

Didn't Scarlets sign DTH?

We certainly did, great story behind it to as he contacted Wayne Pivac to see if we would be interested in his joining us after Glasgow didn't offer a renewal in favour of signing a time server.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:You're seeing it. It's there in black and white. We can't break IRFU rules concerning NIQ's. So what if they signed a player for cover. It's a world cup year, and I'm not sure that they broke the NIQ in doing so. Ulster are up against it from next season on, because of the NIQ. The problem being which good players for us do we have to get rid because the NIQ is being further reduced by one. We're bringing in one new player, and so two must go!

But you see, this is exactly what it means, you can pay player X from what ever country, to come and cover for the WC, injuries ect. Look at the side Ospreys are putting out at the minute, where is their cover ?

So its the IRFU and provinces fault that the regions and WRU take that approach? Thats like the provinces blaming the regions for the IRFU implementing the NIQ slots in the first place.

Also the AP sides can sign injury cover when they need it and it falls outside of the salary cap

2ndtimeround wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Nope it means we get to keep the players we develop.The NIQ cap restricts how many elite players the provinces can recruit and this cap is being reduced so the only way we can increase the number of elite players is by producing them ourselves.It would not be good for the Pro12 to see the best Irish players go off to play in England or France.

So tell me, how often does this happen to the Irish provinces ? I can only recall Sexton, and now Paul O'Connell but he is coming to the end of his career anyway. So that is just Sexton. Ah yes, that is a mass exodus.

Like I have said, Leinster have just signed a Kiwi second rower, just for cover. It's things like this that I am on about.

Didn't Scarlets sign DTH?

We certainly did, great story behind it to as he contacted Wayne Pivac to see if we would be interested in his joining us after Glasgow didn't offer a renewal in favour of signing a time server.  

Really surprised Glasgow let him go. Genuine quality, and a great signing for Scarlets.