Lions team if picked today

First topic message reminder :

Updated this to include my team

This should be selected on World Cup form alone. So no injured people who did not play no 6 nations form - there will be a chance to choose then too


1. Dickinson (S)
2. Ford (S)
3. Nel (S)
4. Charteris (W)
5. J. Gray (S)
6. Warburton [c] (W)
7. Hardie (S)
8. Denton (S)

9. Laidlaw (S)
10. Biggar (W)
11. Watson (E)
12. Henshaw (I)
13. Bennett (S)
14. Bowe (I)
15. Brown (E)

16. Best (I)
17. Healy (I)
18. Ross (I)
19. Henderson (I)
20. Lydiate (W)
21. Murray (I)
22. Ford (E)
23. Hogg (S)

BamBam wrote:Hmm interesting

Don't know about packs, but Beefy vs Fancy backlines could be

15. Brown - Hogg
14. Trimble - Watson
13. Tuilagi - Bennett
12. Roberts - Slade? (struggling)
11. North - Gilroy
10. Biggar - Ford
9. Laidlaw - Davies

Struggled with a beefy full back and a fancy 12

You've got Davies and Laidlaw the wrong way round - Davies would be able to kick Laidlaw further than Laidlaw kicks the ball which isn't that far but he's pretty accurate from 35 yards in

Fancy:

9.Care 10.Cipriani 11.Zebo 12.Slade 13.Joseph 14.Wade 15.Hogg

Beefy:

9.Murray 10.Farrell 11.North 12.Roberts 13.Tuilagi 14.Maitland 15.Brown

FES, I'll PM you your travel details for Siberia.

I wouldn't worry, Irkutsk is lovely this time of year. Of course, by January it's worse than Dundee.

You could extend it to the packs too

Heavyweight v athletic

1 Healy – Dickinson
2 Ford – Youngs
3 Ross – Nel
4 Launchbury – R Gray
5 AWJ – J Gray
6 Lydiate – Wood
7 Robshaw – Tupiric
8 Vunipola – Heaslip

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I wouldn't have Brown in there either. As talented as he is, the guy is a 1st class cretin and would not bring anything positive to the tour with regards to the supposed special bond needed to create a successful team.

Also, there is no point having Bennett in that team if he has a crash ball merchant inside him.

Agreed also about Laidlaw - there are two or three SH's ahead of him.

I can't agree with that at all.

Brown is a player opposition fans love to hate, he's niggly but rarely carded. He's apparently an extremley calm bloke off the pitch but transforms once he crosses the line. He's certainly one of the best FB's in the NH at the minute and would warrant a Lions spot.

I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

IanBru wrote:FES, I'll PM you your travel details for Siberia.

I wouldn't worry, Irkutsk is lovely this time of year. Of course, by January it's worse than Dundee.

You lose all credibility with hyperbole like that!

RDW_Scotland wrote:You could extend it to the packs too

Heavyweight v athletic

1 Healy – Dickinson
2 Ford – Youngs
3 Ross – Nel
4 Launchbury – R Gray
5 AWJ – J Gray
6 Lydiate – Wood
7 Robshaw – Tupiric
8 Vunipola – Heaslip

I'd configure the packs slightly differently.

Heavyweight:

1.Corbisiero 2.Hibbard 3.Wilson 4.Charteris 5.Toner 6.Henderson 7.Robshaw 8.Vunipola

Nifty:

1.Dickinson 2.Cronin 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.Launchbury 6.SOB 7.Tipuric 8.Heaslip

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He is dirty. a real nasty bloke and I have seen him make cheap shots. He also clearly has the red mist descend at times causing bad decisions. He needs to channel / control the aggression to be a better player. fine player tho

Well we'll agree to disagree TJ

TJ wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He is dirty.  a real nasty bloke and I have seen him make cheap shots.  He also clearly has the red mist descend at times causing bad decisions.  He needs to channel / control the aggression to be a better player.  fine player tho

Yeah that's where I'm coming from...everyone goes on about Hogg and Williams but to be fair, they've been caught. Brown is much more  sneaky about it. Plus that interview. People say it's refreshing to see passion. Well that wasn't passion, that was ignorance of the highest standard.

And for the record, I wouldn't pick Hogg at the moment either which is not because of his cheating murderous pedo-like personality, but because he isn't playing as well as he can do.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:You could extend it to the packs too

Heavyweight v athletic

1 Healy – Dickinson
2 Ford – Youngs
3 Ross – Nel
4 Launchbury – R Gray
5 AWJ – J Gray
6 Lydiate – Wood
7 Robshaw – Tupiric
8 Vunipola – Heaslip

I'd configure the packs slightly differently.

Heavyweight:

1.Corbisiero 2.Hibbard 3.Wilson 4.Charteris 5.Toner 6.Henderson 7.Robshaw 8.Vunipola

Nifty:

1.Dickinson 2.Cronin 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.Launchbury 6.SOB 7.Tipuric 8.Heaslip

Forgot about SoB - you don't get much more athletic or dynamic than him!

TJ wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He is dirty.  a real nasty bloke and I have seen him make cheap shots.  He also clearly has the red mist descend at times causing bad decisions.  He needs to channel / control the aggression to be a better player.  fine player tho

Really? Bad loser but never seen him push it too far.

There was nothing wrong with that interview, he's just not media lady of loose morals. He said it how it was rather than some complete tosh that's normally rolled out.

I love Brown's fire, we'd have maybe made it out of the group if we had more like him.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

TJ wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He is dirty.  a real nasty bloke and I have seen him make cheap shots.  He also clearly has the red mist descend at times causing bad decisions.  He needs to channel / control the aggression to be a better player.  fine player tho

Really? Bad loser but never seen him push it too far.

There is worse out there for sure but and he seems to have cleaned up a bit but I can remember seeing a few unsavoury incidents - late hits, knee drops, punches thrown - however unlike some it does not seem to extend off the field - he just has the red mist descend at times

Sgt_Pooly wrote:There was nothing wrong with that interview, he's just not media lady of loose morals. He said it how it was rather than some complete tosh that's normally rolled out.

I love Brown's fire, we'd have maybe made it out of the group if we had more like him.

I thought he was a bit silly in the interview, but I can't really blame him. The interviewer was Jason Mohammed, a journalist barely worthy of the name, who is from the Sonia McLaughlin school of sensationalised aggressive reporting.

I once had a twitter argument with the Mohammed because he insisted on describing every match in the World Snooker Championships as "An EPIC clash between (for example) England and Wales" when it was just a first round match between Mark Davis and Dominic Dale. Apparently I was wrong to object to his bringing nationality into everything!

Surely the issue there is the use of the word epic for a snooker game?

You sure you're not thinking of Hogg and Williams!

No 7&1/2 wrote:You sure you're not thinking of Hogg and Williams!

Certain.

Brown in my opinion is worse than Hogg - altho I grant you its like a choice of getting the clap or herpes.

No where near for me. Hes aggressive but not dirty.

RDW_Scotland wrote:You could extend it to the packs too

Heavyweight v athletic

1 Healy – Dickinson
2 Ford – Youngs
3 Ross – Nel
4 Launchbury – R Gray
5 AWJ – J Gray
6 Lydiate – Wood
7 Robshaw – Tupiric
8 Vunipola – Heaslip

The Grays are both taller and heavier than both of Launchbury and AWJ. I'd shift the Grays across and have maybe Lawes and Kruis in the athletic team (both lock/ 6s). And Hibbard must be bigger than Ford at hooker.

In Williams and Hogg's defence, they are still just young men and like a lot of young men they've got some growing up to do. The problem they have is that they're doing their growing up in front of 80000 people live and millions on tv!

Hogg's Biggar incident came at a time where his head was in the wrong place generally - he was believing his own hype after the lions tour and was acting like a total gobshite, both on and off the pitch. He was also supposedly getting big offers in from Ulster and was having his head turned. Because he wasn't backing up his attitude with his performances he was then dropped by Glasgow and missed out on their first Pro 12 final.

I think that was the turning point for him and he turned things round massively the season after - becoming a star player for Glasgow and Scotland, putting in some great performances leading up to Glasgow's Pro 12 win.

Hogg had learnt the hard way and came out the better for it.

As for the 'dive' well he publicly apologised for it, saying he was ashamed of himself and acknowledges that there is no room for it in rugby. Again he will have learnt a real lasson there - especially given he was blootered late off the ball against Australia and no one batted an eyelid!

I also find some of the phrases used to describe him way over the top - cowardly weasel etc. A man who beats up his wife is a cowardly weasel. These are young men making bad choices on the rugby pitch - there are far more serious things in life.

I also find it funny that Hogg's dive had far bigger a reaction than some of the other incidents this world cup - is SoB also not cowardly for deliberately punching someone off the ball? Pocock kneeing someone while he was prone on the ground?

This Daily Mail-esque behaviour of picking and choosing what to get outrageed by really is very sad IMO.

Hogg and Williams are still in their early 20s - can you imagine the mistakes you made in your early 20s being broadcast in front of millions of people??

They are still young of course. Just think people are kidding themselves if they think Brown is anywhere near these 2.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hogg and Williams are still in their early 20s - can you imagine the mistakes you made in your early 20s being broadcast in front of millions of people??

Doesn't bear thinking about!!

The time you chundered all over that girl you were chatting up in the Student Union? Millions of YouTube hits.

The stupid haircut you had because the front man of you favourite band had it - Gok Wan commenting on it to his millions of Twitter followers.

The time that you were intimate with a pig as part of an initiation ceremony....oh wait that one's real.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He talks the talk but can't walk the walk...

He's been one of our best players for a good while now so he's proven himself for me.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He talks the talk but can't walk the walk...

Ive never read such rubbish!!!! Cant walk the walk???!!!!! Well done you got a bite!

Brown has been one of England's few consistent players over the past 2 years and he is gradually becoming a bit of a talisman for them - He regularly breaks the gain line and often leads from the front when others seem a little lost. He's a player who can get the crowd going in the right direction.

That's all great but he can't do it by himself

No rugby player can.

No 7&1/2 wrote:No rugby player can.

Insightful

So what was your original point?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He talks the talk but can't walk the walk...

Ive never read such rubbish!!!! Cant walk the walk???!!!!! Well done you got a bite!

So why square up to Warburton and then crap your pants? Stick to attacking from deep Mike, that's what you're good at.

Anyway, if Halfpenny and Williams were fit we wouldn't be talking about Mike Brown .

He's not a dirty player though so he's never going to do more than square up to a player. Brown is up there with any of the NH full backs for me.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's not a dirty player though so he's never going to do more than square up to a player. Brown is up there with any of the NH full backs for me.

Well Bakkies rarely hit a player, but had opportunity to do so in every game he played - you just knew to avoid confrontation with him otherwise he'd probably kill you. I see Brown acting like that quite often and I cringe. He shouldn't square up to people if he can't back it up, he's leaving himself open for a haymaker and one day he'll get put on his backside - much to the bemusement of most fans I'm sure.

For what it's worth I don't think Hogg or Williams are dirty players, and don't see why they would be put into that category. Who even is a dirty players in this era?

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He talks the talk but can't walk the walk...

Ive never read such rubbish!!!! Cant walk the walk???!!!!! Well done you got a bite!

So why square up to Warburton and then crap your pants? Stick to attacking from deep Mike, that's what you're good at.

He hardly crapped his pant....but hey...I cant be bothered with a little bitchfight.
You don't like him, I rate him extremely highly.

Next....

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's not a dirty player though so he's never going to do more than square up to a player. Brown is up there with any of the NH full backs for me.

Well Bakkies rarely hit a player, but had opportunity to do so in every game he played - you just knew to avoid confrontation with him otherwise he'd probably kill you. I see Brown acting like that quite often and I cringe. He shouldn't square up to people if he can't back it up, he's leaving himself open for a haymaker and one day he'll get put on his backside - much to the bemusement of most fans I'm sure.

For what it's worth I don't think Hogg or Williams are dirty players, and don't see why they would be put into that category. Who even is a dirty players in this era?

Too many camera angles killed off that species unfortunately. Now there are still a few handbag thrashing ladykiller types.... but no salt-of-the-earth blood'n'gore monsters.

Well...unless you make a case for Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum (Pocock and Hooper)

I wouldn't mind an opposition player getting a red either to be fair.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really don't get the dislike of Mike Brown.

The guy is class...and shows real spirit and fight. He's not dirty.

Most people of having players like that in their side!

He talks the talk but can't walk the walk...

Ive never read such rubbish!!!! Cant walk the walk???!!!!! Well done you got a bite!

So why square up to Warburton and then crap your pants? Stick to attacking from deep Mike, that's what you're good at.

He hardly crapped his pant....but hey...I cant be bothered with a little bitchfight.
You don't like him, I rate him extremely highly.

Next....

Oh Geordie... Please. Mike had tears streaming down his face. Pretty cowardly to go for a guy from behind too, I'm sure captain fantastic had a few choice words with him as he marched him back 10 yards. And from the previous comment you should clearly be able to see that I do rate him as a player.

Next up, Chris Robshaw. How much is a penalty kick worth?

In next weeks news a lock gets the better of a scrum half in pushing contest.

Well laidlaw is now the starting No 9 - world player of the year (nomination....) :-)

My Lions team...

Dickinson
Best
Nel
AWJ
J Gray
SOB
Warburton
Falatau

Laidlaw or Davies
Sexton
Roberts
Bennet
Watson
North
Hogg

But then I consider the opposition and Sexton has to be replaced by Biggar, Hogg by Kearney!!!

Boring day so had a go at the squad I'd select. Obviously it's 2 years off so have dropped some of the older players who may be slightly too old (Sexton and AWJ etc). Of course they may still be in their pomp, but thought it'd be easier to set an upper age limit.

Props: Samson Lee, Cian Healy, WP Nel, Dan Cole, Mako Vunipola, Alex Corbisiero
Hookers: Dylan Hartley, Scott Baldwin, Sean Cronin
Locks: Jonny Gray, Joe Launchbury, Iain Henderson, Richie Gray
Back Row: Dan Lydiate, Seán O'Brien, Sam Warburton, Steffon Armitage, John Hardie, Taulupe Faletau, Billy Vunipola

Scrum Halves: Gareth Davies, Connor Murray, Danny Care
Fly Halves: Dan Biggar, George Ford, Finn Russell
Wingers: Anthony Watson, George North, Simon Zebo, Tommy Seymour
Centres: Jamie Roberts, Mark Bennett, Jonathan Joseph, Robbie Henshaw
Full Backs: Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, Ian Madigan

11 English
10 Welsh
8 Scottish
8 Irish

What surprises me is how few Irish players I have down there. Looking through their squad it's got some old hands left from the golden generation. A lot of them will be retiring sooner rather than later. Some others like D Kearney, McGrath, Murphy and Cave could very well push on. As it is right now though I wouldn't select them.

Wales showed their surprisingly impressive depth in the tournament, so they may end up with a few more than we're seeing here. I don't think it'll be the red wash it was last time though (mainly due to likely retirements in the pack).

Also the amount of Englishmen may surprise some people, but I don't think their poor RWC showing can be taken as indicative of their quality. They were a few minutes from beating Wales, so honours about even is probably right.

As far as Scotland are concerned I think 8 shows just how far the team has come in the past 12 months. I've actually tried to be overly brutal so as not to be accused of any bias, so I was surprised to see so many. There are a couple who could also push for selection like Denton, Strauss, Maitland, SHC and Dunbar.

Think you've got enough back rowers there

Not a bad selection though

madmaccas, AWJ is younger than Charteris.

mikey_dragon wrote:madmaccas, AWJ is younger than Charteris.

You are of course right! Oops

I shall change him for Henderson.

BamBam wrote:Think you've got enough back rowers there

Not a bad selection though

Hmm, it's so bl00dy competitive. Fine, I'll be more decisive. I'm begrudgingly dropping Denton and Tipuric and adding in Corbisiero and Madigan.

Fanster wrote:My Lions team...

Dickinson
Best
Nel
AWJ
J Gray
SOB
Warburton
Falatau

Laidlaw or Davies
Sexton
Roberts
Bennet
Watson
North
Hogg

But then I consider the opposition and Sexton has to be replaced by Biggar, Hogg by Kearney!!!

Lydiate over SOB and a form winger over North.

Would Lydiate really be the right player for this tour? Every forward will need to be skilful and a good ball carriers to compete with the ABs - if SA can't overpower them the Lions aren't going to.