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PrO'12 Launch Officiating Review

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 30 Oct 2015, 1:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Guinness Pro12 bosses have revealed they are undertaking a comprehensive officiating review, focusing predominantly on the appointment of the league's assistant referees.

The issue of refereeing in the Pro12 has been a source of constant debate with league chiefs admitting it has been raised as a concern by all 12 clubs in the division.

At the moment, the leagues' referees and touch judges are able to take charge of matches involving teams from the country of their birth, leading to worries over what could be perceived as potential bias.

As a result, Pro12 chiefs are now exploring the possibility of whether it's possible to appoint impartial assistants for each game moving forwards.

“Officiating is something which is under a lot of scrutiny at the moment,” admitted new Pro12 managing director Martin Anayi.

“I am in the process of meeting all the clubs and one of the good things about doing that is you get a feel for a lot of the things which are issues throughout the competition.

“It's clear officiating is one of them

In one of a number of controversial refereeing incidents which took place last season, Connacht boss Pat Lam launched an extraordinary attack on Welsh official Leighton Hodges after the Irish side were beaten by Cardiff Blues in March.

Hodges stepped in to advise referee Lloyd Linton to award the Blues a late penalty in the clash in the Welsh capital, the call prolonging the match and allowing the Blues to steal victory in the 88th minute.

It left Lam, who was fined €8,000, to bemoan a decision which he thought was completely wrong, the Samoan boss arguing officials must be held to account with the livelihoods of rugby's players and coaches on the line.

Lam's outburst wasn't the only such incident last season

After Leinster were beaten by the Scarlets in March, then Leinster coach Matt O'Connor came out strongly against the non-use of neutral referees in the Pro12.

O'Connor, who has since been ditched by the Irish giants, argued at the time that he believed the credibility of the tournament was at stake without impartial officials.

Leinster's 23-13 defeat in Llanelli that day saw O'Connor incensed at Welsh assistants Gwyn Morris and Chris Williams for failing to award what he saw as a try for wing Zane Kirchner.

“I think it was a Welsh TMO – I don’t know,” O'Connor said after the game, as he urged the importance of neutral officials.

“It has to be looked at how they're put together across the board because with meritocracy (European qualification), everything is important.”

While these issues are nothing new, the league is yet to see the implementation of neutral officials.

Tonight's derby between the Scarlets and Newport Gwent Dragons will be officiated by an all Welsh party with the Welsh Rugby Union providing referee Ben Whitehouse, assistants Neil Hennessy and Dan Jones as well as citing commissioner Gwyn Bowden and TMO Derek Bevan.

A look at the other Pro12 games taking place this weekend sees a combination of Irish and Italian officials take charge of Leinster's trip to Treviso and Scottish assistants Lloyd Linton and Mike Adamson on the line for Glasgow's home game with the Ospreys.

“What we are addressing at the moment is the appointments of the assistant referees rather than the main official,” added Anayi, who revealed earlier this week the Pro12 are exploring the possibility of playing games in America.

“The Unions provide the officials and that's important to make sure as we the Pro12 are not paying for the referees.”

Former England referee Ed Morrison, who took charge of 41 Test matches, is the man currently looking into whether the implementation of completely neutral officials is possible in the Pro12.

Morrison, who works closely with the refereeing managers from the division's four countries, is hoping to help the league achieve a new level of refereeing consistency though it remains to be seen whether that can be achieved.

One issue hindering the implementation of neutral referees or assistants is the lack of quality Scottish and Italian officials to choose from.

“We have employed Ed Morrison to review the whole pool of officials and he will report back to me on that in the near future,” Anayi confirmed.


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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:53 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Moving this along, what sort of wage would attract a guy to ref professionally?

40 grand a year, plus what they make for reffing internationals. Or in Nigel Owens case, plus what he makes from tele, writing books, after dinner speeches, radio, opening up a supermarket........ ect.


Last edited by LordDowlais on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:53 am

Owens is the Billy Bowden of rugby refereeing.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:54 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Added bonus owens is a great role model as well.

That does not make him a good ref. That just adds to his celebrity status.

Is this the real problem? People like him adn his style? Look beyond that.

It's his style that is the problem, he lets teams cheat.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Was this the O'Brien punch that pretty much everyone missed at the time?

You need to read the hearing document. During a break of play, Pascal Pape told owens he had been hit by an Irish player. Owens dismissed it and refused to go to the TMO to see if there was foul play. Why? Only Owens knows.

You really think these are large blunders?

Errrr, yes. When they posisbly decide the outcome of the game I'd say so.

Just reading the findings now. One of the 1st things I've got to was that Pape didn't mention to Owens at the time he was punched but that he took a blow. None of the officials, including Barnes saw it at the time. Not much you can do if you don't see it and it wasn't communicated effectively by the player or captain.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 10:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:

It's his style that is the problem, he lets teams cheat.

Exactly - By having this style, the best cheaters will win the battle of the breakdown, and the best scrum cheats win the scrum. NOT the scrummagers / backrow with the best technique, and NOT the team that ahs been coached throughout the season to be disciplined. Its completely @rse about face.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:00 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Added bonus owens is a great role model as well.

That does not make him a good ref. That just adds to his celebrity status.

Is this the real problem? People like him adn his style? Look beyond that.

It's his style that is the problem, he lets teams cheat.

Every ref lets things go to some extent even Barnes. You and Chunky seem to have a personal dislike as much of what he does is the saem as everyone else but he does it to a better standard.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:00 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The refs in Leinster train with Leinster, Munster refs with Munster etc and as has been discussed numerous times they don't ref those provinces. The AP refs also train with their local teams from time to time

Yes and this does not sit well with me, the refs should have no affiliation with the players they are supposed to be impartial to.

Tell me why don't certain refs officiate certain provinces ?

If they aren't reffing them their impartiality is not relevant

The refs in Ireland belong to the branches not to mention the likes of Lacey and Rolland once played for those branches

Yes I understand all that, but please tell me, why aren't certain refs allowed to ref certain provinces ?

I have so Im not sure what more you want

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:00 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Was this the O'Brien punch that pretty much everyone missed at the time?

You need to read the hearing document. During a break of play, Pascal Pape told owens he had been hit by an Irish player. Owens dismissed it and refused to go to the TMO to see if there was foul play. Why? Only Owens knows.

You really think these are large blunders?

Errrr, yes. When they posisbly decide the outcome of the game I'd say so.

Just reading the findings now. One of the 1st things I've got to was that Pape didn't mention to Owens at the time he was punched but that he took a blow. None of the officials, including Barnes saw it at the time. Not much you can do if you don't see it and it wasn't communicated effectively by the player or captain.

Can you quote that bit.

I read that he told Owens during the next break in play that he was "hit" and made a motion of a "punch" - but owens, using the most lamest excuse ever said because Pape didn't use the word "punch" he didn't go to the TMO.

Dsgraceful officiating. But Owens has form for this where the French are invovled.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:02 am

Yet Owens remains one of the best in the world, acknowledged by the majority of people. What you want is that refs see things exactly your way rather than make any acknowledgement that mistakes will be made with the main to minimise these and get wwhats best for the game.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:I have so Im not sure what more you want

No you have not.

I shall wait for you to revert to type now and start your sarcasm and insults, then divert from the subject.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:03 am

Paragraph 3.3 Chunky.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:03 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Was this the O'Brien punch that pretty much everyone missed at the time?

You need to read the hearing document. During a break of play, Pascal Pape told owens he had been hit by an Irish player. Owens dismissed it and refused to go to the TMO to see if there was foul play. Why? Only Owens knows.

You really think these are large blunders?

Errrr, yes. When they posisbly decide the outcome of the game I'd say so.

Just reading the findings now. One of the 1st things I've got to was that Pape didn't mention to Owens at the time he was punched but that he took a blow. None of the officials, including Barnes saw it at the time. Not much you can do if you don't see it and it wasn't communicated effectively by the player or captain.

Can you quote that bit.

I read that he told Owens during the next break in play that he was "hit" and made a motion of a "punch" - but owens, using the most lamest excuse ever said because Pape didn't use the word "punch" he didn't go to the TMO.

Dsgraceful officiating. But Owens has form for this where the French are invovled.

Chunky you say you read the document, point the rest of us to it then when your told that what your saying is wrong you ask others to point you to the bit that contradicts you all while still criticising Owens for the decision? Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:04 am

It also says Owens thinking and rationale in that section in reply to your initial query Chunky.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I have so Im not sure what more you want

No you have not.

I shall wait for you to revert to type now and start your sarcasm and insults, then divert from the subject.

Actually its you who moves the subjects about as myself and Munchkin highlighted yesterday, I do sarcasm too often but insults rarely and only when called for so Im not sure what you mean by reverting to type

By the way I have pointed out why the refs don't officiate some provinces from having played for them to being part of that branch, what you mean is that the answer provided isn't enough for you.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:07 am

marty2086 wrote:Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

What are you implying ?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:08 am

marty2086 wrote:By the way I have pointed out why the refs don't officiate some provinces from having played for them to being part of that branch, what you mean is that the answer provided isn't enough for you.

No you haven't. Please just answer the question.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:09 am

He did bizarrely compare him to Kenneth Williams. Don't know why. Maybe he could tell us?

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:12 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Bottom line are Garces, Pollock, Clancy, Joubert, Poite, Peyper, Barnes any better.


Barnes
Garces
Poite
JP Doyle
and possibly Glen Jackson (although he has had a couple of mares)
are better referees than Nigel "Look at me" O'wens.

Well I was confining myself to the top referees on the International panel

JPDoyle lets a lot go in the Aviva and would be exposed at International level
Jackson is a complete joke and one of the worst

"would be exposed at international level?" You realise he refereed in the world cup?

He learnt Georgian when he knew he was going to referee Georgia in the world cup. He had a good world cup.

He referred 1 game between a Tier 1 and a Tier 2 nation.
I am talking about matches between Rugby Championship and 6N countries.
He lets a lot more go at the breakdown that Owens.


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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:13 am

Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:13 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:By the way I have pointed out why the refs don't officiate some provinces from having played for them to being part of that branch, what you mean is that the answer provided isn't enough for you.

No you haven't. Please just answer the question.

Headscratch

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:15 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

What are you implying ?

Im implying his oh matron comment yesterday was ignorant, patronising and bordering on homophobic

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:16 am

LordDowlais wrote:Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but changing facts to suit an argument then still arguing the falsehood when its pointed out isn't a difference of opinion its someone entrenching themselves in a position and creating an argument to suit it

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:19 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:By the way I have pointed out why the refs don't officiate some provinces from having played for them to being part of that branch, what you mean is that the answer provided isn't enough for you.

No you haven't. Please just answer the question.

Headscratch

But you have not told me why certain Irish refs cannot ref certain Irish province's. Please explain why the IRFU do not allow this.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:20 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but changing facts to suit an argument then still arguing the falsehood when its pointed out isn't a difference of opinion its someone entrenching themselves in a position and creating an argument to suit it

Strange, I see a lot of that from you.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:24 am

The topic is refs. Go.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but changing facts to suit an argument then still arguing the falsehood when its pointed out isn't a difference of opinion its someone entrenching themselves in a position and creating an argument to suit it

Strange, I see a lot of that from you.

Name one time I changed the 'facts'

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:27 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but changing facts to suit an argument then still arguing the falsehood when its pointed out isn't a difference of opinion its someone entrenching themselves in a position and creating an argument to suit it

Strange, I see a lot of that from you.

Name one time I changed the 'facts'

Just explain why the IRFU do not allow certain Irish refs to ref certain Irish provinces please marty.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:29 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Bottom line are Garces, Pollock, Clancy, Joubert, Poite, Peyper, Barnes any better.


Barnes
Garces
Poite
JP Doyle
and possibly Glen Jackson (although he has had a couple of mares)
are better referees than Nigel "Look at me" O'wens.

Well I was confining myself to the top referees on the International panel

JPDoyle lets a lot go in the Aviva and would be exposed at International level
Jackson is a complete joke and one of the worst

"would be exposed at international level?" You realise he refereed in the world cup?

He learnt Georgian when he knew he was going to referee Georgia in the world cup. He had a good world cup.

He referred 1 game between a Tier 1 and a Tier 2 nation.
I am talking about matches between Rugby Championship and 6N countries.
He lets a lot more go at the breakdown that Owens.


So your "international level" definition is now only "between Rugby Championship and 6N countries"

right.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:30 am

You see 3.3 then. Questions answered.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:32 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Here we go, insults and accusations again, just because people have a different opinion. Reverting to type as usual.

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion but changing facts to suit an argument then still arguing the falsehood when its pointed out isn't a difference of opinion its someone entrenching themselves in a position and creating an argument to suit it

Strange, I see a lot of that from you.

Name one time I changed the 'facts'

Just explain why the IRFU do not allow certain Irish refs to ref certain Irish provinces please marty.

I did but it didn't suffice

Now would you like to back up your allegation and tell me one time I changed a fact to suit my argument?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:33 am

For my interest is it because they support them or such like?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:35 am

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky you say you read the document, point the rest of us to it then when your told that what your saying is wrong you ask others to point you to the bit that contradicts you all while still criticising Owens for the decision? Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

Nigel Owens:

"Pascal Pape told me with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach. But he did not say punched....I then took this as just a blow in the contact area and didn't even cross my mind as foul play....."

Weak, weak excuse, from Owens. Pape actioned that he had been punched, and Owens did nothing about it. A massive blunder.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:38 am

marty2086 wrote:Now would you like to back up your allegation and tell me one time I changed a fact to suit my argument?

Well you told me that I guessed right about the employment of refs on this very thread for a start.

marty2086 wrote:I did but it didn't suffice

No you have not. You keep reverting to type, trying to avoid the question by answering with your own questions.

I will ask you one last time, can you please explain why the IRFU do not allow certain Irish refs to ref certain Irish provinces please marty.

If you do not want to answer it, just say. I will then let it go.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:38 am

'...as there was no hint of it from any other French player or Captain.'

So seeing as no French player, Irish Player, 2 assistant refs and the tmo saw it at the time, not really a massive blunder at all. It also answers your first question so strange you posted it seeing as you had already read this.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:39 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Chunky you say you read the document, point the rest of us to it then when your told that what your saying is wrong you ask others to point you to the bit that contradicts you all while still criticising Owens for the decision? Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

Nigel Owens:

"Pascal Pape told me with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach. But he did not say punched....I then took this as just a blow in the contact area and didn't even cross my mind as foul play....."

Weak, weak excuse, from Owens. Pape actioned that he had been punched, and Owens did nothing about it. A massive blunder.

Your again changing the facts, Owens said hit you said punched and if Im not mistaken was the official finding that it was a strike and not a punch?

I've seen many refs dismiss complaints from players for all types of foul play when they are both speaking their first language

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:40 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:'...as there was no hint of it from any other French player or Captain.'

So seeing as no French player, Irish Player, 2 assistant refs and the tmo saw it at the time, not really a massive blunder at all. It also answers your first question so strange you posted it seeing as you had already read this.

Only 1 French player saw it. So only 1 French player complained to the referee. But his complaints weren't listened to by the referee.

Massive blunder which changed the outome of the game.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:41 am

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Chunky you say you read the document, point the rest of us to it then when your told that what your saying is wrong you ask others to point you to the bit that contradicts you all while still criticising Owens for the decision? Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

Nigel Owens:

"Pascal Pape told me with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach. But he did not say punched....I then took this as just a blow in the contact area and didn't even cross my mind as foul play....."

Weak, weak excuse, from Owens. Pape actioned that he had been punched, and Owens did nothing about it. A massive blunder.

Your again changing the facts, Owens said hit you said punched and if Im not mistaken was the official finding that it was a strike and not a punch?

I've seen many refs dismiss complaints from players for all types of foul play when they are both speaking their first language

what have I changed? Pape motioned the action that O'Brien did - which we have all seen. Owens ignored it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:42 am

Not really a massive blunder given the facts though. So you've come up with one thing he missed, which no one else saw including Barnes. Scraping the barrell a bit. Why did you do the comparison to Kenneth Williams by the way?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not really a massive blunder given the facts though. So you've come up with one thing he missed, which no one else saw including Barnes. Scraping the barrell a bit. Why did you do the comparison to Kenneth Williams by the way?

He still could have used the TMO to check though couldn't he ?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not really a massive blunder given the facts though. So you've come up with one thing he missed, which no one else saw including Barnes. Scraping the barrell a bit. Why did you do the comparison to Kenneth Williams by the way?

He still could have used the TMO to check though couldn't he ?

Not according to the Irish.

Nothing to see here etc

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Now would you like to back up your allegation and tell me one time I changed a fact to suit my argument?

Well you told me that I guessed right about the employment of refs on this very thread for a start.

marty2086 wrote:I did but it didn't suffice

No you have not. You keep reverting to type, trying to avoid the question by answering with your own questions.

I will ask you one last time, can you please explain why the IRFU do not allow certain Irish refs to ref certain Irish provinces please marty.

If you do not want to answer it, just say. I will then let it go.

And where did I change any facts about the employment of refs to suit my argument?

I have answered a number of times but you constantly say Im not or reverting to type because you either don't know what your asking or aren't asking what your really asking

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

Yes he could. But as his statement says he didn't realise there was a punch, neither did anyone else bar the 2 players.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:45 am

Why the Kenneth Williams thing Chunky?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:46 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes he could. But as his statement says he didn't realise there was a punch, neither did anyone else bar the 2 players.

So he just decided to ignore it then. Yep, that sounds like a blunder to me.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:47 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Chunky you say you read the document, point the rest of us to it then when your told that what your saying is wrong you ask others to point you to the bit that contradicts you all while still criticising Owens for the decision? Maybe its not his officiating you have a problem with

Nigel Owens:

"Pascal Pape told me with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach. But he did not say punched....I then took this as just a blow in the contact area and didn't even cross my mind as foul play....."

Weak, weak excuse, from Owens. Pape actioned that he had been punched, and Owens did nothing about it. A massive blunder.

Your again changing the facts, Owens said hit you said punched and if Im not mistaken was the official finding that it was a strike and not a punch?

I've seen many refs dismiss complaints from players for all types of foul play when they are both speaking their first language

what have I changed? Pape motioned the action that O'Brien did - which we have all seen. Owens ignored it.

'with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach'

You saying he was told Pape was punched, he said he was told he was hit in the stomach

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not really a massive blunder given the facts though. So you've come up with one thing he missed, which no one else saw including Barnes. Scraping the barrell a bit.

TMO is for exactly this type of occurence. Owens refused to sue it. Outcome of game changed. Massive blunder.

Why did you do the comparison to Kenneth Williams by the way?

Because Owens quite openly references "Carry on" like humour regardimng his sexuality when refereeing.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:47 am

marty2086 wrote:

'with actions and a few words that he had been hit in the stomach'

You saying he was told Pape was punched, he said he was told he was hit in the stomach

I'm saying Pape actioned the motion O'Brien did. Which the world rugby document confirms. Owens did nothign about it.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:48 am

marty2086 wrote:I have answered a number of times but you constantly say Im not or reverting to type because you either don't know what your asking or aren't asking what your really asking

OK, I will play. I must have missed what you said, I have had a look, but I cannot find it either. Could you please humor me and tell me again, can you please explain why the IRFU do not allow certain Irish refs to ref certain Irish provinces please marty.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:50 am

He didn't ignore it though did he, you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding the statement. I thought you were commenting on his sexuality, well done you. Does it bother you that much that he can be a top ref and gay?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:51 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes he could. But as his statement says he didn't realise there was a punch, neither did anyone else bar the 2 players.

So he just decided to ignore it then. Yep, that sounds like a blunder to me.

Didn't ignore it though did he. I assume that you and Chunky are also equally critical of Barnes here as well?

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