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PrO'12 Launch Officiating Review

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Guinness Pro12 bosses have revealed they are undertaking a comprehensive officiating review, focusing predominantly on the appointment of the league's assistant referees.

The issue of refereeing in the Pro12 has been a source of constant debate with league chiefs admitting it has been raised as a concern by all 12 clubs in the division.

At the moment, the leagues' referees and touch judges are able to take charge of matches involving teams from the country of their birth, leading to worries over what could be perceived as potential bias.

As a result, Pro12 chiefs are now exploring the possibility of whether it's possible to appoint impartial assistants for each game moving forwards.

“Officiating is something which is under a lot of scrutiny at the moment,” admitted new Pro12 managing director Martin Anayi.

“I am in the process of meeting all the clubs and one of the good things about doing that is you get a feel for a lot of the things which are issues throughout the competition.

“It's clear officiating is one of them

In one of a number of controversial refereeing incidents which took place last season, Connacht boss Pat Lam launched an extraordinary attack on Welsh official Leighton Hodges after the Irish side were beaten by Cardiff Blues in March.

Hodges stepped in to advise referee Lloyd Linton to award the Blues a late penalty in the clash in the Welsh capital, the call prolonging the match and allowing the Blues to steal victory in the 88th minute.

It left Lam, who was fined €8,000, to bemoan a decision which he thought was completely wrong, the Samoan boss arguing officials must be held to account with the livelihoods of rugby's players and coaches on the line.

Lam's outburst wasn't the only such incident last season

After Leinster were beaten by the Scarlets in March, then Leinster coach Matt O'Connor came out strongly against the non-use of neutral referees in the Pro12.

O'Connor, who has since been ditched by the Irish giants, argued at the time that he believed the credibility of the tournament was at stake without impartial officials.

Leinster's 23-13 defeat in Llanelli that day saw O'Connor incensed at Welsh assistants Gwyn Morris and Chris Williams for failing to award what he saw as a try for wing Zane Kirchner.

“I think it was a Welsh TMO – I don’t know,” O'Connor said after the game, as he urged the importance of neutral officials.

“It has to be looked at how they're put together across the board because with meritocracy (European qualification), everything is important.”

While these issues are nothing new, the league is yet to see the implementation of neutral officials.

Tonight's derby between the Scarlets and Newport Gwent Dragons will be officiated by an all Welsh party with the Welsh Rugby Union providing referee Ben Whitehouse, assistants Neil Hennessy and Dan Jones as well as citing commissioner Gwyn Bowden and TMO Derek Bevan.

A look at the other Pro12 games taking place this weekend sees a combination of Irish and Italian officials take charge of Leinster's trip to Treviso and Scottish assistants Lloyd Linton and Mike Adamson on the line for Glasgow's home game with the Ospreys.

“What we are addressing at the moment is the appointments of the assistant referees rather than the main official,” added Anayi, who revealed earlier this week the Pro12 are exploring the possibility of playing games in America.

“The Unions provide the officials and that's important to make sure as we the Pro12 are not paying for the referees.”

Former England referee Ed Morrison, who took charge of 41 Test matches, is the man currently looking into whether the implementation of completely neutral officials is possible in the Pro12.

Morrison, who works closely with the refereeing managers from the division's four countries, is hoping to help the league achieve a new level of refereeing consistency though it remains to be seen whether that can be achieved.

One issue hindering the implementation of neutral referees or assistants is the lack of quality Scottish and Italian officials to choose from.

“We have employed Ed Morrison to review the whole pool of officials and he will report back to me on that in the near future,” Anayi confirmed.


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Post by Stone Motif Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:55 pm

Thanks. O'ver and O'ut.

Enjoy your filibuster fest mush.
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Post by Guest Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:57 pm

Stone Motif wrote:Thanks. O'ver and O'ut.

Enjoy your filibuster fest mush.

Goodnight, Stone. Sleep well Hug

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:22 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote: S4C broadcast on a Sunday because that is the slot they demand for those games. Nothing to do with anyone else.

No.

This is key. That is the slot they ARE LEFT WITH.

That is the entire crux.

There is a fundamentally misapprehension here.

There are no such thing as slots in this league.
Each TV deal is independent of each other.
So it simply isn't true that Ulster take a Friday slot and therefore the Welsh have to play on Sunday.
If every TV company wanted their matches played on a Friday the league would not stop them.

Ulster aren't stopping the Welsh playing all games on Friday
The IRFU aren't stopping the Welsh play all games on a Friday
The league aren't stopping the Welsh play all games on a Friday
It is the Welsh TV companies that dictate this.

It is an internal Welsh issue  which can only be change by the appropriate Welsh organizations - S4C, BBC W, WRU, Landlords of grounds where relevant, the 4 Regions - no one else has any influence or input.

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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:29 pm

It has been pointed out countless times, geoff. It won't sink in.

What's telling is that Chunky is trying to defend Edinburgh having as many Friday games, while attacking Ulster for having the same.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:36 pm

Munchkin wrote:

What's telling is that Chunky is trying to defend Edinburgh having as many Friday games, while attacking Ulster for having the same.

No I'm not. It's equally ridiculous if Edinburgh also have a guaranteed regular slot every week.

However, I'm not convinced it's the same setup. If we take last season as an example, Edinburgh had 4 home games on days other than Friday. Ulster had 2 - and none on a Sunday, because as we know, their country is archaic.

The general rule seems to be that fixtures become much more manageable / regular / convenient as the number of teams represented by the broadcaster becomes lower. Which, any reasonable person will realise and see creates a totally unlevel playing field.

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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:48 pm

Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:51 pm

Imagine Northampton and Saracens had all their home games on a Friday night at the same time, and all the others were forced to play a mixture on Fri, Sat and Sun every week. Do you think the other teams and their fans would have something to say?

It wouldn't happen though would it. Because it's a competent, fair league and a great product on and off the pitch.

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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:58 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Imagine Northampton and Saracens had all their home games on a Friday night at the same time, and all the others were forced to play a mixture on Fri, Sat and Sun every week. Do you think the other teams and their fans would have something to say?

It wouldn't happen though would it. Because it's a competent, fair league and a great product on and off the pitch.

It's a fair league??!! Where have you been hiding during the fallout over the salary cap?

It still hasn't sank in with you that it is your broadcasters that dictate your fixture times? It's nothing to do with anyone else. Stop grasping at excuses to blame anyone else but the Region/Regions broadcasters/rented pitch for those times.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:03 pm

Munchkin wrote:

It still hasn't sank in with you that it is your broadcasters that dictate your fixture times? It's nothing to do with anyone else. Stop grasping at excuses to blame anyone else but the Region/Regions broadcasters for those times.

Yes, correct, well done. The broadcasters dictate. The tv deal states that those broadcasters do what they do. The tv deal means that it's an uneven playing field. The tv deal states that BBCNI can show their 1 and only team whenever they like after sky picks theirs. The tv deal means Ulster can plan their season 4 months before all the other teams.

I guess at least you finally admit that the problem exists though. That's the first step. Admittance of the problem. Which is a  step up from the earlier pages of this thread.

I'm not aware of any other professional league where 1/ or 2 of the teams have a regular slot and all the rest pick up the scraps between them. Not even La Liga has this which favours the 2 big Spanish soccer teams. Just the Pro12. The fantastic Pro12.

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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:10 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

It still hasn't sank in with you that it is your broadcasters that dictate your fixture times? It's nothing to do with anyone else. Stop grasping at excuses to blame anyone else but the Region/Regions broadcasters for those times.

Yes, correct, well done. The broadcasters dictate. The tv deal states that those broadcasters do what they do. The tv deal means that it's an uneven playing field. The tv deal states that BBCNI can show their 1 and only team whenever they like after sky picks theirs. The tv deal means Ulster can plan their season 4 months before all the other teams.

I guess at least you finally admit that the problem exists though. That's the first step. Admittance of the problem. Which is a  step up from the earlier pages of this thread.

I'm not aware of any other professional league where 1/ or 2 of the teams have a regular slot and all the rest pick up the scraps between them. Not even La Liga has this which favours the 2 big Spanish soccer teams. Just the Pro12. The fantastic Pro12.

You're hilarious Very Happy

It has been us that has been telling you that it is the broadcasters that dictate the times. Now, what still hasn't sank in with you is that it is your broadcasters that you have an issue with. Nobody else's. It is your broadcasters that have the power to right the wrongs you perceive, and only them, although not sharing a ground with a soccer team might also be a help.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:22 pm

Chunky stop talking garbage - the time of Ulster matches has absolutely no influence of when welsh teams play.

Your claim that other teams have to pick up scraps is a complete and Utter LIE

Be man enough to admit

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Post by Don Alfonso Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:34 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What's telling is that Chunky is trying to defend Edinburgh having as many Friday games, while attacking Ulster for having the same.

No I'm not. It's equally ridiculous if Edinburgh also have a guaranteed regular slot every week.

However, I'm not convinced it's the same setup. If we take last season as an example, Edinburgh had 4 home games on days other than Friday. Ulster had 2 - and none on a Sunday, because as we know, their country is archaic.

The general rule seems to be that fixtures become much more manageable / regular / convenient as the number of teams represented by the broadcaster becomes lower. Which, any reasonable person will realise and see creates a totally unlevel playing field.

Ladies and gentlemen, the real Chunky. Interested in debating the matters at hand, keen on an egalitarian league. Not at all a tedious keyboard warrior unable to post without sneery infantile asides.

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Post by marty2086 Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What's telling is that Chunky is trying to defend Edinburgh having as many Friday games, while attacking Ulster for having the same.

No I'm not. It's equally ridiculous if Edinburgh also have a guaranteed regular slot every week.

However, I'm not convinced it's the same setup. If we take last season as an example, Edinburgh had 4 home games on days other than Friday. Ulster had 2 - and none on a Sunday, because as we know, their country is archaic.

The general rule seems to be that fixtures become much more manageable / regular / convenient as the number of teams represented by the broadcaster becomes lower. Which, any reasonable person will realise and see creates a totally unlevel playing field.

No Chunky you know nothing, it was us who pointed out that Ulster playing on a Sunday would be unpopular not that it was banned as proven by the article showing that NI were playing on a Sunday and the constant mention of GAA games on Sundays. Again its a case of you making stuff up to try and further your idea that the league isn't viable.

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Post by Stone Motif Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:50 pm

Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday. There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.
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Post by Stone Motif Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:51 pm

Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday. There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.
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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:56 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact  relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday.  There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.

It must be after 8. Go have a wee sleep.

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Post by Stone Motif Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:30 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact  relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday.  There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.

It must be after 8. Go have a wee sleep.

Irony being, your standard meandering torrent of BS is far more potent a soporific than this latest one liner.
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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:39 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact  relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday.  There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.

It must be after 8. Go have a wee sleep.

Irony being, your standard meandering torrent of BS is far more potent a soporific than this latest one liner.

So you admit to feeling a little drowsy.

Just like a couple of others here, you blame everyone else for your faults. Just admit to them. Alcohol on a weekend is nothing to be ashamed about. Posting like a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll is, but I'm being kind. I'm blaming it on your inability to take a drink sensibly. It's a lesser evil. At least I hope that's what it is. Otherwise you really are a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll. If that's true then you have my sympathy  Hug

Now get some sleep diddums  Very Happy


P.s like my smiley faces?  Very Happy

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Post by Stone Motif Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact  relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday.  There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.

It must be after 8. Go have a wee sleep.

Irony being, your standard meandering torrent of BS is far more potent a soporific than this latest one liner.

So you admit to feeling a little drowsy.

Just like a couple of others here, you blame everyone else for your faults. Just admit to them. Alcohol on a weekend is nothing to be ashamed about. Posting like a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll is, but I'm being kind. I'm blaming it on your inability to take a drink sensibly. It's a lesser evil. At least I hope that's what it is. Otherwise you really are a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll. If that's true then you have my sympathy  Hug

Now get some sleep diddums  Very Happy


P.s like my smiley faces?  Very Happy

No, I admitted to being a little bored, you monumental tool.

You're attracted to me aren't you? I can tell.
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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:30 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Ulster had three. One of those was at the dictate of SKY. Same with Edinburgh.

As has been pointed out countless times now, Ulster or anyone else having Friday games has nothing to do with the Regions home fixtures. That is between the Regions and their broadcasters.

Stone thinks it's because of a rented ground taken on a Saturday by soccer. Maybe. I don't care. It's still nothing to do with any of the other nations teams involved, their broadcasters or the Pro12.

I don't 'think' anything. I merely supplied a fact  relating to the mention of the Dragons having the majority of games on a Sunday.  There's no unwritten rule that a post has to disclose eff all Munch.

It must be after 8. Go have a wee sleep.

Irony being, your standard meandering torrent of BS is far more potent a soporific than this latest one liner.

So you admit to feeling a little drowsy.

Just like a couple of others here, you blame everyone else for your faults. Just admit to them. Alcohol on a weekend is nothing to be ashamed about. Posting like a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll is, but I'm being kind. I'm blaming it on your inability to take a drink sensibly. It's a lesser evil. At least I hope that's what it is. Otherwise you really are a keyboard warrior, intellectually stunted, moronic troll. If that's true then you have my sympathy  Hug

Now get some sleep diddums  Very Happy


P.s like my smiley faces?  Very Happy

No, I admitted to being a little bored, you monumental tool.

You're attracted to me aren't you? I can tell.

Is that the best you can do? I'm disappointed in you, sweetheart heart

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Post by geoff999rugby Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:16 pm

Still not admitted your understanding of how game times are determined in the 5 different regions is nonsense.
Each country has zero bearing of when games are played in the other countries.

I recommend some Psychotherapy
The first step to cure is for the patient to admit the problem.

The issue of when the Welsh teams play their games is a totally internal Welsh issue and the solution can only come from within Wales.

Blaming outsiders, in this case the Irish, is only delaying the start of the much needed theraphy

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:46 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:

Politics does come into play in N.Ireland - you might have noticed we had a bit of bother recently !
If we played on a Sunday the Presbyterian/DUP tub thumpers would be out in force telling us we were all 'going to hell for sinning on the Lords day'

Just been announced:

Sun 21 Feb 14:30
Ulster Rugby v Scarlets Kingspan Stadium BBCNI/S4C More

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Post by marty2086 Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:58 pm

Chunky that must be so confusing for you now

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:59 pm

marty2086 wrote:Chunky that must be so confusing for you now

I must admit I may have to have a wee nap at this news.

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Post by marty2086 Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:06 pm

Does it mean you will also be retracting this comment?

Chunky Norwich wrote:The individual tv deals don't necessarily need to be scrapped (although I'd prefer it all to be on sky if the money was right) - it's the individual clauses that are the problem. i.e. - BBC NI always having the same slot every other weekend. S4C always having a Sunday afternoon slot.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:Does it mean you will also be retracting this comment?

Chunky Norwich wrote:The individual tv deals don't necessarily need to be scrapped (although I'd prefer it all to be on sky if the money was right) - it's the individual clauses that are the problem. i.e. - BBC NI always having the same slot every other weekend. S4C always having a Sunday afternoon slot.

Yes absolutely. I welcome this news, and look forward to many more Ulster kick offs on a Sunday.

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Post by SecretFly Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Does it mean you will also be retracting this comment?

Chunky Norwich wrote:The individual tv deals don't necessarily need to be scrapped (although I'd prefer it all to be on sky if the money was right) - it's the individual clauses that are the problem. i.e. - BBC NI always having the same slot every other weekend. S4C always having a Sunday afternoon slot.

Yes absolutely. I welcome this news, and look forward to many more Ulster kick offs on a Sunday.

Breakthrough!!! The ice melts a tiny fraction on perceptions of Pro12. Another 1000 years and we might have another Pro12 cheerleader on side.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:26 pm

First time in the celtic league's 14 year history that Ulster play a home game on a Sunday.

Who says my constant moaning doesn't deliver?

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Post by Sin é Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:17 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Politics does come into play in N.Ireland - you might have noticed we had a bit of bother recently !
If we played on a Sunday the Presbyterian/DUP tub thumpers would be out in force telling us we were all 'going to hell for sinning on the Lords day'

Just been announced:

Sun 21 Feb 14:30
Ulster Rugby  v   Scarlets Kingspan Stadium BBCNI/S4C More

Sad. Big Ian is hardly cold in his grave!
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PrO'12 Launch Officiating Review - Page 15 Empty Re: PrO'12 Launch Officiating Review

Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Does it mean you will also be retracting this comment?

Chunky Norwich wrote:The individual tv deals don't necessarily need to be scrapped (although I'd prefer it all to be on sky if the money was right) - it's the individual clauses that are the problem. i.e. - BBC NI always having the same slot every other weekend. S4C always having a Sunday afternoon slot.

Yes absolutely. I welcome this news, and look forward to many more Ulster kick offs on a Sunday.

Breakthrough!!!   The ice melts a tiny fraction on perceptions of Pro12.   Another 1000 years and we might have another Pro12 cheerleader on side.

Does anyone want to see a chunky cheerleader?
ScarletSpiderman
ScarletSpiderman

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