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PGA Tour: WGC-HSBC "Champions" / Sandersons Farms Championship: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 04 Nov 2015, 4:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Last week's CIMB "Classic" was pretty much an out-of-sight, out-of-mind event in kwiniville, didn't see a single shot, but kudos to Justin Thomas for extending the string of first-time winners. And a welcome return to tournament leaderboards for Adam Scott, suggesting his Presidents Cup demolition of Rickie Fowler was no fluke.
Only time will tell if Thomas has what(ever?) it takes to reach the level predicted for him; it's not so much a criticism as it is an observation that he's already had more blips in his career than Jordan Spieth may ever have.
What about Adam Scott? It's almost as if his season got a second wind with the Presidents Cup, which was followed by a Top Ten in Japan and now his best pay-day on Tour since winning Colonial 18 months ago. Worth watching him this week and his Fifth Major, Aussie Open, comes up in three weeks' time. As his putter goes, so goes Adam.

2).With so many established golfers in poor form, and so many young 'uns making hay, the World Ranking positions between about 35th and 70th are more congested than the M25 (almost).
The guys needing parachutes are finding that "decent" tournaments with a nice pay cheque are no guarantee of moving up in the rankings. For instance, Donaldson, Poulter and Westwood in Turkey must have been chuffed with Top 16 finishes, but each slipped down the owgr list by 3, 2 and 2 places respectively. OK if you're securely esconced in the Top 30, no good at all when your ranking is in freefall. Bradley, Mahan, McDowell, Schwartzel and Simpson are all in the same boat. Not much good.

3).And then there's Luke Donald. Were the Europeans who showed up for the CIMB merely intent on adding a PGA Tour event-notch on their season and sleep-walking through the Kuala Lumpur heat and humidity?
That might work for the likes of Casey (now anyway), Garcia and Stenson, but not for Lukey unless he actually makes an effort. A T64 result does him no good whatsoever.
Even at his best, Luke tended towards short and crooked, but a glimpse at three stats over the past five years suggest his short-game brilliance is fading fast. Year by year, from 2011 to 2015:
Total Putting: 1st, 1st, 5th, 10th, 79th,
Scrambling: 7th, 5th, 22nd, 38th, 46th,
Par 5 Scoring: 8th, 15th, 78th, 61st, 124th.
(Incidentally, Stricker in his prime had similar Par 5 success, but when the short game goes, short-hitters are toast.)

4).Anyway, back in the saddle for Lukey, Westy and Poults this week in Shanghai at the mis-named HSBC Champions. Must do better boys.
And how can this possibly be called a "Champions" event when Victor Dubuisson's win is disregarded, whilst guys like the aforementioned all manage to squeak in, with nary a Top Two finish on European or PGA Tours between them all year? (Just picking on our English friends, more egregious inclusions could be mentioned.)
Meanwhile, both Donaldson and Molinari will find themselves with some catching up to do as they miss out on freebies at CIMB and the WGC-HSBC.

5).What a moron Steve Williams is for slagging off Tiger Woods in his book. Woods may not be perfect, OK, anything but perfect, but Williams's incendiary comments will do Tiger little or no harm at all, but will tarnish what people think of the otherwise respected caddie, and unnecessarily brings unwanted attention to other of his recent employers. Not what Adam Scott needs.

6).It looks as if HSBC has re-upped for a five-year extension for the Shanghai WGC shindig (and for Abu Dhabi), but doubt there's smoke without at least a trace of fire from the GolfWeek article, so wouldn't be surprised if some changes are in the offing.

7).And it sounds as if the European Tour is seriously contemplating a slight tweak to the minimum number of events necessary for a player to sustain Membership.
In the longer term, Keith Pelley must know all the fiddling with such details is merely wallpaper and what he really needs is some more BIG tournaments so that golfers have more viable options. No sign of anything of the kind on the near horizon.

8)."Opposite field" events on the PGA Tour have a definite place in the schedule, opportunities for young players to make a name for themselves (recent beneficiaries include Spieth and Grillo), the Tour to take its act to different parts of the country, albeit in the already overserved South and West, and for graduates from web.com action to be guaranteed tee-times. And the money's not bad either.
Europeans in this week's field in Mississippi include Blixt, Cejka, Laird, Brian Davis, Jacobson, Pettersson and Norlander, while Robert Karlsson Monday-qualified. Last year the new venue of Country Club of Jackson looked an attractive old-style course.
Jason Bohn is the in-form local boy while Wills Wilcox and McGirt may also be worth watching. And it's just about time Tim Clark extended his incredible run of years with a runner-up finish - last year's came at the WGC-HSBC when he was desperately unlucky to run in to some Bubbagolf magic (or flukes depending upon one's point of view).

9).No idea about likely winners this time around, but Rickie Fowler was one shot out of last year's play-off. (Not sure what the opposite of a non-runner might be, but it seems that Rory will be anything but if he fails to make his tee-time.)

10).Meanwhile, the Champions Tour "season-long race for the Charles Schwab Cup" comes down to its last tournament of the year with Montgomerie, Maggert and Langer all within 66 points of each other - that's neck and neck and neck - if any of the three win, they'll win the $1M Schwab swag.

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Post by lorus59 Sat 07 Nov 2015, 10:52 am

I think the 16th hole in Shanghai is one of the best the players have to play in the season. So many choices and outcomes.

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Post by pedro Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:52 am

super_realist wrote:
pedro wrote:
McLaren wrote:Why not both the gossip and the more revealing facts about how top players go about their lifes?
Mac, here you go:
Honestly, this wraparound season sucks. It does, seriously, It's just, it's stupid. I still ain't figured out this FedEx - what does this FedEx Cup stuff do? It ain't doing nothing, but it is what it is. It's supposed to be the players' tour. It's Tim Finchem and them's tour is what it is. It's just golf after golf after golf. Ain't no time for hunting and fishing, man.

Shocking grammar. Which redneck was that? Boo Weekley?
Yep, Boo.

He also promised he'd quit golf when his bank account hits $8m. You know who I'll start keep rooting for?? Whistle


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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:56 am

Boo lied. $13.5M and still going strong.

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Post by pedro Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:57 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Boo lied. $13.5M and still going strong.
Think he meant his bank account. Just edited. He can't be that far away tho.

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Post by lorus59 Sat 07 Nov 2015, 1:02 pm

Do you think Boo has many endorsement contracts?

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Post by super_realist Sat 07 Nov 2015, 1:03 pm

Weekley's statement is about as stupid as Bendtner complaining about not being able to go skiing.

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Post by GPB Sat 07 Nov 2015, 3:31 pm

Sanderson Farms scheduled to resume at 10:30 Central Time, one hour from now.

Probably a 54 hole tournament as they probably won't start Round 3 today.

GMAC in the Mayakorba field next week.


Last edited by GPB on Sat 07 Nov 2015, 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 07 Nov 2015, 4:02 pm

It'll be a miracle if they complete 54 holes by sunset Sunday; perhaps they'll go for a 72-hole finish on Monday instead?

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Post by GPB Sat 07 Nov 2015, 4:15 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:It'll be a miracle if they complete 54 holes by sunset Sunday; perhaps they'll go for a 72-hole finish on Monday instead?

A miracle? Why? If no more delays, they should be done with Round 2 by the end of the day. Last tee time is 11:35 which gives the last tee time 5.5 hour until sunset.

Weather looks good for tomorrow.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 07 Nov 2015, 8:23 pm

Play abandoned for the day in Mississippi.
Still looks as if a Monday finish is the most likely.

Almost all of the Europeans who could have used a really good tournament this week are floundering, whether in China or Mississippi, including an incredible disintegration from Martin Laird over his final few Round 1 holes and most of Round 2. Big opportunities though, of different kinds, for Russell Knox and Brian Davis.

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Sat 07 Nov 2015, 10:14 pm

Did Hideki withdraw? The leaderboard shows him playing only 6 holes in the third round.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:10 pm

Hi Grumpy,
The European Tour leaderboard is showing Hideki as a retiree. Can't find any explanation.
EDIT: pgatour.com reports he w/d'd with a bad back.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 08 Nov 2015, 12:23 am

Russell Knox birdied the Round 3 18th. Joint leaders.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 08 Nov 2015, 6:02 pm

Four British golfers in the WGC Top Ten. Not necessarily the likeliest lads but good for them, especially Russell Knox. And good to see someone's woken Ross Fisher from his summer siesta.

Round 3 in Mississippi expected to start about 1.45 p.m. Eastern Time, 6.45-ish in Southsea. Leaders will probably get about half a dozen holes in. No miracles (unless Brian Davis wins), so final round and a half to be completed on Monday.

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Post by super_realist Sun 08 Nov 2015, 6:17 pm

Great win for the American Russel Knox.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 08 Nov 2015, 6:51 pm

super_,
I think your buddy gaelgowler knew Russell Knox quite well, as a child at least.

Even if you characterize him as an "American", at least he was the best American.



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Post by pedro Sun 08 Nov 2015, 7:49 pm

10 WD's and a DNS at Sandersons. What is that all about?

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Post by GPB Sun 08 Nov 2015, 8:00 pm

pedro wrote:10 WD's and a DNS at Sandersons. What is that all about?

Most of the WDs were going to miss the cut. Not an excuse, but a reason.

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Post by pedro Sun 08 Nov 2015, 8:48 pm

Would Knox be eligable for the RC and would his WGC points count if he decided to take up ET membership now?

A lot of red and white in the RC standings..

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 08 Nov 2015, 9:02 pm

I don't think so; believe any points/money are only counted from the time he takes membership. Which Lingmerth has done, but no sign that Knox plans to.

pedro,
It's not unusual for several w/d's when there are weather delays; could imagine they're not unwelcome to the Tour. No idea why Wilcox did a runner though; he was in good shape and you'd think it's a tournament expect to get a top result in.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:30 am

Russell Knox's win represents a hat-trick of GB&I WGC wins, following Rory and Shane.
Just saying.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Mon 09 Nov 2015, 8:38 am

Well done Russell - I only watched the highlights, but I thought he held his nerve well when he came back from the bogey on 9, not that he was pressed that hard in the end.
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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 11:00 am

Bonus golf on Monday from the Sanderson Farms Championship in Jackson, Mississippi.
The course looked like the Mighty Mississip had overflowed at times on Friday & Saturday, but they'll complete Round 3 today, followed immediately by Round 4, with no re-grouping (or as Americans call it, re-pairing. Never quite sure about that.).

Bunched leaderboard so anyone's guess as to likely winner, action starting at 7.00 a.m. Central Time, 1.00 p.m. in Dornoch. No-one's played more than 16 holes in Round 3, the leaders just six.



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Post by raycastleunited Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:46 pm

pedro wrote:Would Knox be eligable for the RC and would his WGC points count if he decided to take up ET membership now?

A lot of red and white in the RC standings..

Sorry don't get this. Surely he is eligible for RC team... he plays on the PGA tour every week. Why would he want to join Euro tour?

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:53 pm

Ray, you have to have Euro membership to make the team, that was the whole point re: Poulter the other week as he hadn't fulfilled his criteria for membership until Beem gallantly stood aside, otherwise he couldn't have been considered.

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Post by raycastleunited Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:01 pm

But surely Knox would play for team USA? Can't see why he would want to play for Europe, he's as Scottish as apple pie. I would say Donald Trump is more Scottish than him.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:26 pm

I think Knox has dual citizenship as his father is American, his mother a Scot. But he describes himself as a Scot so assume he sees himself as playing for Europe or not at all.

Any notion that someone may not be British even if they are British citizens who happen to have lived abroad for a majority of their life is, for want of a better expression, not right!

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Post by raycastleunited Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:39 pm

I agree Kwini, but you can spin it the other way round as well. What nationality does Mo Farah consider himself? I think you can define it in the way they speak... and think. I suppose it's a state of mind!

Listening to Knox's interview yesterday, I didn't feel anything Scottish going on. I guess the key test is when he walks off the golf course, what score does he look for first? Jacksonville Jaguars or Cally Thistle?

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Post by SmithersJones Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:47 pm

He's not listed on the US Team standings, so they clearly think he's European.
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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:56 pm

ray,
You think I'm OK then, looking for Pompey's result first?

Knox was certainly born in Inverness and no doubt gaelgowler would be able to offer more personal testimony as to his Scottishness!

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:01 pm

Gael would claim that someone was Scottish if they'd seen a can of Irn Bru

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Post by pedro Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:03 pm

On TV and the Pgatour website he's always depicted with St Andrew's Cross next to him, so I guess he's somehow regarded more Scottish?

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:06 pm

Fat Petersen has a Swedish flag next to his, pretty sure he's a full yank now though.

Suppose though if you can consider Na for the US team, why not Knox.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:10 pm

Pettersson has dual nationality - probably Knox has too, don't know for sure.

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Post by pedro Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:14 pm

It's all mere speculation. My initial thought was that since there are several "ghost" points lists out there (eg for PGA Tour membership), maybe there was one for RC.

IIRC some years ago Tiger would have won the ET OOM if he had decided to play the last event of the year and take up ET membership retroactively.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

Round 4 in Mississippi is underway for some threesomes.

Hope we don't get a repeat of New Orleans a few years ago when there were similar circumstances and Andres Romero shot lights out early and spent two hours plus in the clubhouse playing video games before being declared the winner.
Ooh, and Romero is out early today as well - though this time he'll need a Round 4 50-something and that might still not be enough.

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:51 pm

super_realist wrote:can of Irn Bru

These were brought to my attention the other day Super. Irn Bru Fiery advert 1 and advert 2

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Post by Shotrock Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

Keeps playing like he did this past weekend, then the ET better bend his arm or bend some rules to get him on the European side of the upcoming RC. Well done Mr. Knox.

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Post by robopz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:00 pm

RE: Ryder Cup eligibility for Russell Knox

Sounds like Knox is "probably" eligible for the USA team... and for sure eligible for the Euro team if he were to join the Euro Tour.

This is the key section of U.S. Citizenship law that would apply to Knox... (Knox's birthday is June 21, 1985 for purposes of the following)

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

- - - -

From the above... just because Knox had one U.S. Citizen as a parent... the domicile of the parent is the key to his citizenship. And since he was born in 1985 there would be a period of 5 or 10 years residency residency in the U.S. by that parent. I have no clue what the residency status of his dad was.

But there is THIS... Knox's status has come up before (see link below)... and in this March 2014 article (where there was discussion of him making Watson's Team) Knox is claiming he's always been a dual-citizen and has always held an American passport... At that time, Julius Mason of the US PGA said: “Knox’s position has not arisen — yet. But we have had similar situations in the Presidents’ Cup where players have dual citizenship. So they have to declare in advance which team they want to try and qualify for.”

If in fact Knox had had his citizenship all along... then it sounds like all he needs to do is get a clarification from the PGA of A... and he likely would be eligilbe to declare for which ever team he chose...

http://www.golfbytourmiss.com/2014/03/scotlands-russell-knox-could-represent-usa-in-ryder-cup/



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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

Big question is, why would Knox want to join a disparate bunch of non team playing deadbeats?

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Post by robopz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:12 pm

super_realist wrote:Big question is, why would Knox want to join a disparate bunch of non team playing deadbeats?
Aw come on now... who wouldn't want to play under the inspirational leadership of vice-captain's Mickelson and Woods?  Whistle

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:27 pm

Knox's father is always referred to in the Press as an American.
But Knox himself is always adamant he's Scottish. So it seems as if that is where his loyalty lies.
Given he has a three-year exemption on the PGA Tour, it's difficult to see why he wouldn't take up European Tour membership for 2016 - whether he'd make the team is something else entirely, but expect both teams to have quite a turnover from Gleneagles.

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:50 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:but expect both teams to have quite a turnover from Gleneagles.
Agreed Kwini. My guess:-  McIlroy, Dubuisson, Rose, Stenson, Garcia, Willett, Lowry, Sullivan, Knox and Fleetwood. (See how that turns out!)
Don't know if DC has 2 or 3 picks; he might go for his old buddy Westwood; and then someone like Kaymer.

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Post by robopz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 5:01 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Knox's father is always referred to in the Press as an American.
But Knox himself is always adamant he's Scottish. So it seems as if that is where his loyalty lies.
Given he has a three-year exemption on the PGA Tour, it's difficult to see why he wouldn't take up European Tour membership for 2016 - whether he'd make the team is something else entirely, but expect both teams to have quite a turnover from Gleneagles.
Scottish yes, and nothing will change the fact he was born and raised in Scotland and thus would have strong feelings for Scotland, but he moved to the U.S. in 2004. And in the article linked above... seems like Knox leaves the door a lot more open to playing on the USA team than one might think...  especially considering the hoops one has to jump through to take Euro membership when the PGA Tour is your primary Tour...

- - - -

This from the article linked above...

The man himself [Knox] is intrigued.

“I’ve never really ever thought about the Ryder Cup,” he admits.

“I have no idea what I would have to do to make either team, and I’ve never even dreamt about it, to be perfectly honest.

“I’ve always been an American/British citizen, and have always had an American passport as well because my dad is an American, while my mum is Scottish.

“So I could probably play for both teams. But that’s light years away.”


Well... maybe "light years" go by quicker than he thought...

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Post by Hibbz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 5:58 pm

Shotrock wrote:Keeps playing like he did this past weekend, then the ET better bend his arm or bend some rules to get him on the European side of the upcoming RC. Well done Mr. Knox.

If he keeps playing well and winning I'd hazard I guess he won't be that interested in the Ryder Cup.

Always strikes me that the people who still make a fuss about the Ryder Cup (Poulter, Westwood, Mongomerie) are those that don't tend to win much of importance.

In my opinion the rivallry has seemed very much media driven in recent events. Maybe due to the best Europeans playing as much if not more on the US Tour as The European.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:27 pm

Talking about golfers representing countries other than that in which they were born, Badds is tied for the Sanderson lead.

Imagine most Scots wouldn't mind Knox representing USA, so long as he didn't represent England in anything . . . . . .
Something else Knox might want to think about, if he should care about such things, is Olympic selection. Only Rose, Casey and Willett ahead of him in Team GB, assuming McIlroy plays for Ireland.

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Post by pedro Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:37 pm

Let's just say that it would be good for the Americans to have a European on their team..

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Post by robopz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:44 pm

Kwini,

One other thing affecting Knox's RC status... t's a LOT harder for full time PGA Tour "home circuit" players to dual tour on the Euro Tour. To do so, they have to get enough competing event releases or play in enough PGAT off weeks to get in their minimum. I've been able to confirm that Knox has long ago designated the PGA Tour as his "home circuit". So just like the issues Koeopka and Reed face... to dual tour on the ET he needs those CER's. He plays enough on the PGAT to get the 5 he needs as he gets 3 for 15 events then 1 for each 5 events thereafter... and he plays well north of 25 events. It's just a matter if he wants to start using those in Europe...

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:55 pm

Oh no, the dreaded Finchem handcuffs in play again . . . . . . .
Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

Surely he can change that and then do a Casey/Rose, revoke his E.T. membership when it suits him?

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Post by robopz Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:13 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Oh no, the dreaded Finchem handcuffs in play again . . . . . . .
Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

Surely he can change that and then do a Casey/Rose, revoke his E.T. membership when it suits him?
Actually, once declared, I don't think Knox can revert to a Euro Tour Home Circuit unless he completely loses his membership on the PGA Tour.  I'm not even sure he can change it then...

And some might call it restraint of trade... others might call it cost of membership or dues...

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