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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities? Empty If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

Post by screamingaddabs Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:01 am

If the Ian's and Ben suddenly decided that you were to be the next England coach, what would your top 3 (or more if you wish) priorities be for the next year or two?

Here are mine:

1- The team should play like England, not ape anyone else. By all means bring in foreign coaches if they are the best, but we play to our traditional strengths which are:
a) Big units in the tight five
b) Back row with at least one carrier (like Deano, Dallaglio etc.), one fetcher (like Back) and one work horse (like Hill)
c) Speedy and intelligent backs (like Greenwood and Guscott, Robinson and Underwood etc. of old)
(Admittedly we need to not have a traditionally English 10 like Rob Andrew!)

Players in the forwards need to be a disciplined unit, very strong at the set piece. In the backs they need to play what is infront of them. We have the players to do this. The younger guys are brought up more like this in the age groups. It would be lovely if we had props that can pass like a ten, but the main job of an English prop is to eat the opposition alive in the scrum!

2- Pick players for our gameplan. Our game plan is built with the best players in mind, but if some bright new thing comes on the scene but he doesn't fit the game plan then he might not be the best choice for the team. Let's not be asking players who are big and bestly to slim down and lets not ask sprightly athletic types to beef up.

3- Push for central contracts to allow players to be rested properly. Even if central contracts are not available, help build a relationship with the English clubs whereby our players can get some quality rest (no preseason or anything else) for at least one month a year. This would be by far the hardest bit to do of the three! A strong England helps the clubs and strong clubs help England. We need to all work together.

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:17 am

I have adapted this from a comment I left on the "Next England Coach" thread.

Whoever the coach is (and I don't for one moment think Lancaster could hold on to his post for the poor performance reasons), I would like them to have these ground rules:

1. Establish a "Leadership Gang" a la NZ where there are a core number of players who can actually make decisions and advise/support their captain accordingly. Don't leave it all to 2 guys i.e Robshaw & Wood.

2. Always use a proper openside flanker to fetch and rule the breakdown. Australia, NZ and Wales have shown just how effective this can be. Enough of this "converted 6" bunk. It does not work. As above - a fetcher, a carrier & a brutal, tough grafter.

3. NEVER play players out of position unless there's been injuries on the pitch on the day. If you need to replace a 13 before the match starts, use a 13. Don't play out-and-out full backs at wing or fly-halves as 12s. For 6s & 7s see above.

4. Regain the old "backbone" of the England team. I don't care how it's done - just get it back. The negativity at present needs to stop NOW. The Wales & Australia games are a nightmare I never want to experience again.

5. No member of the coaching/selection panel should have a relative in the squad. It creates a conflict of interest.

6. Use overseas based players. We had two of the best in Europe available and left them in France. Although I supported the RFU's rule, with hindsight I think selecting them could have made a difference.

7. Get a scrum coach who knows how to sort the obvious issues we have. We have always had a decent pack until this RWC. Stop concentrating on making forwards into backs. They aren't. A large, ugly grunting mass of a pack has worked for us in the past. Let's do it again.

8. Install Mr Jason Leonard & Mr Victor Ubogu as the Team-Building Managers. There's too much pressure to conform to what the current managers say, and not enough relaxation time.

9. Staged game plan. There was no plan b or c when it went wrong under SL. Let's remember how to play a different way when the opposition counteract what we do. And don't panic.

10. CONCENTRATION FOR 80 MINUTES. This has been a massive annoyance with the recent England team - they switch off at critical stages in the game, be it in the first 20 minutes, after half time, for the whole first half (vs Wales in the 6 nations) or tailing off after 60 minutes.

11. Stop making substitutions for the sake of it. Burgess and Farrell et al were doing ok against Wales in the RWC. As soon as that change was made and that defensive axis was gone, the game fell apart. There was no reason to make that substitution.

12. Discipline, discipline, discipline. Too many penalties against us. Cut them down!!

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:18 am

1.  Girls.  We need more pretty girls at the games.  This brings lads, and lads bring money.  Money provides more funding.  Funding helps grow the game and provide resources.  The oldest approach in the world.

2.  Global Warming.  Hurry up already.  Freezing my testicles off at the first Six Nations match in February is annoying.  

3.  Pretty Boys.  No pretty boys in the team.  All gone.  Rugby players should look like Rugby players, not like people auditioning for the cover of pinkie in the air wine tasting mags.  George Ford, go out and get a few facial scars and then come back and we can talk.  Perma-tans, whether on players, coaches, or staff, are absolutely prohibited and is punishable by watching XFactor over and over.  Also, stupid haircuts are out too.  No player in my team looks like a juvenile.

4.  Mud.  Reintroduce dirt and mud to Twickenham.  Even if we lose we look like we gave an effort.  

5.  Land of Hope and Glory.  WTF is England about is not those words exactly?

and

6.  Re-assess everyting.  No incumbents.  Everyone is new.  Whether they have 50 caps or none.  Evaluate the spectrum of EQ players and decide the best group that could actually play together and build a game plan around their strengths.  Refine the strategies, game plans, and players in the team constantly so the ultimate game plan matches the skills and strengths of the playing group.  Understand there are many ways to play Rugby, all of which can be successful.  But every plan needs to be flexible enough to react to the opposition, injuries, and changes in the player roster.  And, of course, a coach who can actually adpat to changing game situations.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:23 am

Win one of the next 2 6Ns would be pretty high on the list.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:31 am

There's only one priority - a new coaching team.

There....done.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:33 am

You don't rate yourself so much you're only priority would be to find a replacement Barney?!

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Post by screamingaddabs Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:33 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Win one of the next 2 6Ns would be pretty high on the list.

But how would you go about doing that? Otherwise my plan would be "win all the games we play" and we would be world champs in double quick time!
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Post by Barney McGrew did it Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:53 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You don't rate yourself so much you're only priority would be to find a replacement Barney?!

Touché

But I'd only be at the level of SL.

So yes
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:55 am

Tweaks rather than whole sale changes. Backline was looking good. Ford, Cipriani as back up. Twelvetrees back into the squad with Slade getting game time at 12 or 13 with Twelvetrees and Burrell.

Fraser if he's fit must be given game time along with Kitchener. I'd have Clifford involved in the squad and probably on the bench. Maybe robshaw to 6 initially.

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Post by Exiledinborders Thu 05 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:I have adapted this from a comment I left on the "Next England Coach" thread.

Whoever the coach is (and I don't for one moment think Lancaster could hold on to his post for the poor performance reasons), I would like them to have these ground rules:

1. Establish a "Leadership Gang" a la NZ where there are a core number of players who can actually make decisions and advise/support their captain accordingly. Don't leave it all to 2 guys i.e Robshaw & Wood.

Not only would I not leave decision to these two I would not let them near any decision. When Wood was captain he apparently either did not know what the score was or how many points a penalty was worth. Robshaw's decision to kick for touch given that we had a bonus point from the Fiji game and were playing what would be an exhausted Uruguay in their last game was bizarre.

One thing I would do is decide who is in my 2019 team and give them lots of game time. For instance I would play Slade in every game.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 05 Nov 2015, 2:45 pm

1) Keep the progress in the backs. Not much to change. Just build experience. Maybe look to find find a bit of size from somewhere.

2) Find out why the pack looked underpowered and the set pieces seemed to fail. We have the players...its just needs to be tweaked. It needs BALANCE

3) Sign up a coach who can work on the breakdown skills - Laurie Fisher at Gloucester has a top reputation.

4) GET RID OF ANDY FARRELL

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Nov 2015, 2:50 pm

I'd throw in get rid of Catt no matter what. I defended him prior to the WC as the backs were looking good but compeltely disagree with his comments towards Cipriani, seemed really unprofessional.

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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 05 Nov 2015, 3:03 pm

A point I'd add that would go a long way to making a difference is getting our big forwards hitting the line at pace from depth. No more offloads to forwards stood still and behind the gainline.

I honest to God don't know how modern day coaches and players, let alone professionals who are paid to play and understand this game, don't do the one basic thing we were all taught as youngsters.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 05 Nov 2015, 4:01 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:A point I'd add that would go a long way to making a difference is getting our big forwards hitting the line at pace from depth. No more offloads to forwards stood still and behind the gainline.

Yeah I am sick and tired of this.

Of course when they do hit the line at any pace, the passer is so goddamned unsympathetic with the pass that it is almost impossible to hold onto. Serious lack of basic skills.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 05 Nov 2015, 4:02 pm

First thing I would do as a new Head Coach is to ensure my contract was absolutely watertight when it came to severance pay clauses.

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Post by Big Thu 05 Nov 2015, 4:35 pm

1. Tell anyone on the commercial side that wants the players for interviews/commercials/photos to urine off. They are rugby players not models or actors.

2. Ditto above re: Players playing in their normal club position.

3. Bench players would be nearest equivalent to the players on the pitch, so if/when they come on it doesn't mean a change in style or tactics is needed. And only bring them on if first choice is injured, playing badly, or game is well won and you can afford to experiment new players/ rest starters.

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Post by screamingaddabs Thu 05 Nov 2015, 4:46 pm

An interesting point here is that most posters seem to broadly agree. If we all agree and it is fairly obvious then why did Lancaster not spot it and do it?
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Post by lostinwales Thu 05 Nov 2015, 7:41 pm

Priorities? Biscuits. Definitely biscuits

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 05 Nov 2015, 8:20 pm

Who ever becomes the next England coach his first priority  should be to pick his own back room staff.

Second he should only pick the players that are well and truly good enough to play international rugby, player/s that are on (FORM) and play them in the same position that they play for their club. And not pick them too play out of position, just to put them on the field. Mike Brown on the wing, Ugo monya at full back. just a couple of examples.

This not picking player/s that play in France was in my opinion a big mistake.

He and he alone should be in total control of the squad.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 05 Nov 2015, 11:10 pm

Lancaster took too many people still recovering from injuries and were unfit.


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Post by emack2 Fri 06 Nov 2015, 3:36 am

Tight forwards who can do the basics first props who can Scrummage/support first,hookers
who can hook./Lineout throw.Locks that can jump at Lineouts/restarts,Scrummage.
A balanced loose forward trio,an 8 who can control the Scrum base/linout option,at least
one other lineout option.Play as a unit know when to compete and when to stand off at
breakdown.Use the Scrum to provide front foot ball NOT milk penalties,half back who
passes,breaks/kicks straight away not do 3 dance steps first.
A fly half who can pass of both hands,kick of both feet ,a midfield with the options of
second receiver left/right kicking option,or a crash ball option,skill at 13,
back three all safe under the high ball,everyone can defend/tackle.Plus 2 goal kickers.
Look at fitness levels,aerobic fitness,if your not fit you don`t play,by that the ability
to play 85 minutes if required.
Look at all the players you`ve used recently and tell them what they need to do
to be starting/bench etc.
Try to get the kids in school involved in rugby at an early age non contact by weight
just simple basics.
MOST IMPORTANT continuity ,work out your game plans identify say 60 players then
manage them.Form is transitory class permanent,come up with agreement with clubs
so can be rested if required.
Once picked don`t dump them,keep and develop them,as an example many AB`s
cruised in ITM/Super games.When they put on the Black shirt they came alive
recognising it was just a job.They couldn't do say 30 games flat out in a season
of about 14 tests.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Nov 2015, 7:16 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lancaster took too many people still recovering from injuries and were unfit.
No question about it.  Too many players who had suffered long term injuries appeared to have magically recovered and become match fit all at the same time immediately before the RWC.   Except that they weren't.  One reason for the disappointing England showing was clearly down to that.  I would rather take healthy but relatively unproven players and see what happens, than players not fully recovered or not in game shape due to significant injury.  It's nuts.  And irresponsible.


Last edited by doctor_grey on Fri 06 Nov 2015, 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 06 Nov 2015, 8:03 am

emack2 wrote:Tight forwards who can do the basics first props  who can Scrummage/support first,hookers
who can hook./Lineout throw.Locks that can jump at Lineouts/restarts,Scrummage.
A balanced loose forward trio,an 8 who can control the Scrum base/linout option,at least
one other lineout option.Play as a unit know when to compete and when to stand off at
breakdown.Use the Scrum to provide front foot ball NOT milk penalties,half back who
passes,breaks/kicks straight away not do 3 dance steps first.
A fly half who can pass of both hands,kick of both feet ,a midfield with the options of
second receiver left/right kicking option,or a crash ball option,skill at 13,
back three all safe under the high ball,everyone can defend/tackle.Plus 2 goal kickers.
Look at fitness levels,aerobic fitness,if your not fit you don`t play,by that the ability
to play 85 minutes if required.
Look at all the players you`ve used recently and tell them what they need to do
to be starting/bench etc.
Try to get the kids in school involved in rugby at an early age non contact by weight
just simple basics.
MOST IMPORTANT continuity ,work out your game plans identify say 60 players then
manage them.Form is transitory class permanent,come up with agreement with clubs
so can be rested if required.
Once picked don`t dump them,keep and develop them,as an example many AB`s
cruised in ITM/Super games.When they put on the Black shirt they came alive
recognising it was just a job.They couldn't do say 30 games flat out in a season
of about 14 tests.

All fine bar cruising in any game. They are professionals and this is cheating their clubs and more importantly the fans.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 06 Nov 2015, 11:57 am

Well, my first priority would be a declaration to RFU that I wouldn't be engaging in any pseudo philosophical mumbo-jumbo for the press. No speeches on good behaviour, philosophy, particle physics (it ain't rocket science) or astrology.
If the RFU insist that 'culture, philosophy, concepts of niceness, criminal law and decentality Whistle should form a great part of my remit then I'd suggest to them that they hire Stephen Fry instead.


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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 06 Nov 2015, 12:09 pm

I agree... I think we all got a bit fed up of the "respect and culture" drivel.


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Post by gregortree Fri 06 Nov 2015, 1:07 pm

Give Burgess plenty of training in Union techniques.....oh wait.... picard

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 06 Nov 2015, 2:05 pm

I do wonder if we can return to the traditional English way long term, it seems to me that there has been a culture shift (sorry!) away from that at every level of development. Look at the forwards in the U18s and U20s, other nations' fans might try to dismiss them as oversized orcs but that isn't actually the case. They have been moulded into being athletic and mobile (even the props) players over the last 5-6 years. It is something I have pondered, are we going to even try to produce players the size of Martin Johnson or the Fun bus in the future? Lancaster may have seen (or been told...) the way the wind was blowing and decided to go with it.
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Post by Irish Londoner Fri 06 Nov 2015, 3:02 pm

1 - Insist that the RFU take over the running of the Premiership and introduce a fully financed and ring fenced tow division league - so that the dog wags the tail.
2 - Sack Rob Andrew
3 - Introduce a programme that sends young players to SA/NZ/Aus to play in our close season
4 - Take the best players whereever they are playing
5 - Copy the NZ player development sructure note for note from Small Blacks to All Blacks
6 - Stop pretending that if only we could copy rugby league everything would be better
7 - Make it prefectly clear that whilst you can come to England and qualify through residence if you are not capable of becoming a AB or Springbok, you have to also take British citizenship to do so.
8 - Sack Rob Andrew again just to be sure.....

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 06 Nov 2015, 3:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:Well, my first priority would be a declaration to RFU that I wouldn't be engaging in any pseudo philosophical mumbo-jumbo for the press.  No speeches on good behaviour, philosophy, particle physics (it ain't rocket science) or astrology.  
If the RFU insist that  'culture, philosophy, concepts of niceness, criminal law and decentality Whistle should form a great part of my remit then I'd suggest to them that they hire Stephen Fry instead.
Oh c'mon man. This is pro sport. Organisational and coaching psycho-babble is part of the deal. it's everywhere.

It's just that Lancaster and his version of psycho-babble didn't deliver.
Coaches who do deliver don't get criticised for their rhetoric although it might be just as psycho and still babble. Same for coaches with mixed results but whose teams are not playing under the same microscope and media spotlight as England.

That said, I never liked Lancaster's culture bit. Far too corporate and never sounded compelling or real. Just hot air.

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Post by emack2 Sat 07 Nov 2015, 2:06 am

Not condoning the coasting thing, but players Nonu especially, and Muliana were examples of this.Once they put on the Black shirt they were different players indeed in 2009,during
there worse year this century.Nonu due to injuries played 12,13,and wing and was praised
as the most valuable back[incidentally he`s always had a kicking game but was told not
to use it]
Would also like to see a brains trust approach in 2003 side they had several club captains
who pooled there input.
Would also like a flexible approach where captain can change the game plan on the fly.
There was too much poor kicking [includes all top NH sides], where forwards having won
possession.
Kicked down the throat of other side ,then to have to turn around and trudge back 30
metres behind them.

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Post by eirebilly Sun 08 Nov 2015, 10:03 am

I think that the new England coach (if there will indeed be one) has to be an incredibly strong personality. He must not allow external influences to get involved with his tactics and team selections. I think that Lancaster is a very good coach but far to easily overwhelmed by others (RFU, Farrell Snr).

England have a very good squad in the making and given a good coach, I would expect them to win the next 6N.
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Post by yappysnap Sun 08 Nov 2015, 10:24 am

Yes a very strong experienced coach would certainly be a different approach, I think that could be a real shock for a lot of the players though who have it very comfy so far. It'd be interesting to see how they react to loud/strong/stern/shouty coach rather then a cuddly coach.

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Post by mawhis Sun 08 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:1 - Insist that the RFU take over the running of the Premiership and introduce a fully financed and ring fenced tow division league - so that the dog wags the tail.
2 - Sack Rob Andrew
3 - Introduce a programme that sends young players to SA/NZ/Aus to play in our close season
4 - Take the best players whereever they are playing
5 - Copy the NZ player development sructure note for note from Small Blacks to All Blacks
6 - Stop pretending that if only we could copy rugby league everything would be better
7 - Make it prefectly clear that whilst you can come to England and qualify through residence if you are not capable of becoming a AB or Springbok, you have to also take British citizenship to do so.
8 - Sack Rob Andrew again just to be sure.....

Agree with all of this, but would add:

Stop trying to copy league. No more league coaches or players.
Forget about trying to preserve the English style of play - it's never achieved anything. The only time that England have ever been consistently successful against the world's best was when Sir Clive Woodward deliberately ignored it in favour of playing Total Rugby instead.

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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities? Empty Re: If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

Post by doctor_grey Sun 08 Nov 2015, 3:45 pm

yappysnap wrote:Yes a very strong experienced coach would certainly be a different approach, I think that could be a real shock for a lot of the players though who have it very comfy so far. It'd be interesting to see how they react to loud/strong/stern/shouty coach rather then a cuddly coach.
Hold it mate.

You serious underestime the extremity of severity Lancaster's practices.
Sitting in a circle with legs folded singing :'We shall overcome" Lennon-style would be brutal
Even worse is the 90 ninty minute Kum By Yah sessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta5HnYtWBIs
Then they would got to financial advice seminaers.

No wonder the Rugby team was a disaster.


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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities? Empty Re: If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

Post by kingelderfield Sun 08 Nov 2015, 10:40 pm

A new RFU PRL elite player release contract paying for a selected squad of the top 20 players to play no more than 15 club games a year and for those games to be determined by the national coach. This squad could be revised annually with clauses for long term injury replacements.

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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities? Empty Re: If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

Post by ebop Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:45 am

I'd ban the kitman from dishing out investment advice.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11542496
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If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities? Empty Re: If you were the new England Coach what would be your priorities?

Post by Welly Mon 09 Nov 2015, 9:22 am

Irish Londoner wrote:1 - Insist that the RFU take over the running of the Premiership and introduce a fully financed and ring fenced tow division league - so that the dog wags the tail.

This is the same RFU that couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel?

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