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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by neilthom7 Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Dragons v Ulster Rugby
Sunday 8th November 2015
Rodney Parade
2.30pm Kick Off
TV- BBC NI and S4C

Referee: Dudley Phillips (IRFU, 54th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Sean Brickell, Simon Rees (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Aurwel Morgan (WRU)
TMO: Tim Hayes (WRU)

This should be interesting, Ulster have changed their squad up for this one with the European game in France coming up and with a numbe rof players still missing with Injuries.  Combine that with our frankly awful away record this season and things don't look good but still at least we have best and pienaar back.

Newport Gwent Dragons: Carl Meyer; Ashton Hewitt, Adam Hughes, Adam Warren, Nick Scott; Dorian Jones, Sarel Pretorius; Boris Stankovich, Elliot Dee, Shaun Knight; Cory Hill, Rynard Landman (capt); Ed Jackson, Ollie Griffiths, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Rhys Buckley, Phil Price, Brok Harris, Matthew Screech, Lewis Evans, Charlie Davies, Jason Tovey, Ross Wardle.

Ulster: Peter Nelson; Rory Scholes, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Sam Arnold; Paddy Jackson, Paul Marshall; Kyle McCall, Rob Herring (captain), Wiehahn Herbst; Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe; Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Stephen Mulholland.

Replacements: Rory Best, Ricky Lutton, Bronson Ross, Lewis Stevenson, Sean Reidy, Ruan Pienaar, Ian Humphreys, Craig Gilroy


Last edited by neilthom7 on Sat 07 Nov 2015, 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You don't get irony, do you?

What you typed was not ironic, it was sarcastic. As is said typing quoted here. OK

You're not too bright, are you? The irony would be in what you posted, not me....

Yep, reverting to type when you have been backed into a corner. How very munchkin of you.

Backed into a corner? By you?!? Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:20 pm

Munchkin wrote:And what if it was a kick chase?

Good god, do you even know the laws ? If the player who the ball hit was kicking it, then the player picking the ball up did not come from behind the kicker and he is again, OFFSIDE.

But what HAS clearly happened here is, that the player hit the ball forward and the player infront of him collected the ball, OFFSIDE.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You don't get irony, do you?

What you typed was not ironic, it was sarcastic. As is said typing quoted here. OK

You're not too bright, are you? The irony would be in what you posted, not me....

Yep, reverting to type when you have been backed into a corner. How very munchkin of you.

Backed into a corner? By you?!? Laugh


You just keep proving me right munch. OK

Insults followed by accusations then followed by sarcasm. The flow that is a debate from the Irish mafia on here.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:27 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:30 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

It's a clip showing a ball dropping. I can understand how that counts as evidence in your world though....

You must be new to rugby.

More than 30 years. Yes I'm new... And this is coming from someone who had to have me explain the law on a turn over clip that you posted, wrongly accusing the player being off his feet Very Happy

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:31 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

It's a clip showing a ball dropping. I can understand how that counts as evidence in your world though....

You must be new to rugby.

More than 30 years. Yes I'm new... And this is coming from someone who had to have me explain the law on a turn over clip that you posted, wrongly accusing the player being off his feet Very Happy

He was sitting on his arse. His arse isn't his feet.

Or maybe it is in Ireland.

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.


Last edited by Munchkin on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:32 pm

Not one Irish person has admitted that the Ulster player is offside in that clip.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:34 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

It's a clip showing a ball dropping. I can understand how that counts as evidence in your world though....

You must be new to rugby.

More than 30 years. Yes I'm new... And this is coming from someone who had to have me explain the law on a turn over clip that you posted, wrongly accusing the player being off his feet Very Happy

He was sitting on his arse. His arse isn't his feet.

Or maybe it is  in Ireland.

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:35 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.

Prove it ?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:36 pm

Munchkin wrote:

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

Nope. He's clearly on his arse when he rips the ball

https://vine.co/u/1137378498177331200

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:38 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

Nope. He's clearly on his arse when he rips the ball

https://vine.co/u/1137378498177331200


There will be an insult and an accusation followed by sarcasm coming your way if you keep proving him wrong chunks.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

Was the bolded intentionally ironic? Lol. Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time looking through your posts. It had nothing to do with the players; you described the atmosphere at the Ulster games as "thuggish" among other things I do not fully remember. It was incredibly insulting to an entire fanbase, but unlike a few of the professional victims on here most people moved on and didn't make a huge deal over it. I'm sure if it were said towards you and your fellow brethren this place would explode.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

Nope. He's clearly on his arse when he rips the ball

https://vine.co/u/1137378498177331200


There will be an insult and an accusation followed by sarcasm coming your way if you keep proving him wrong chunks.

Or he'll use Marty's trick and never post on the thread ever again.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:47 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Not one Irish person has admitted that the Ulster player is offside in that clip.

What on earth do you want? The IRFU rugby moral police to come on here and publicly announce that a mistake was made?

It was a mistake like many more made in this game and in many other games. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't see you waving your arms around for the Australian fans on these forums to publicly announce the mistake made by Craig Joubert? These things happen in almost every single game. It isn't bias, it is poor officiating that will hopefully improve over time.

Also, if your agenda wasn't so clear to many on here, then you may actually get an intelligent debate. Why should people dance to your consistently boring music?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:49 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It isn't bias, it is poor officiating that will hopefully improve over time.

Agreed.

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Post by rodders Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:51 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Not one Irish person has admitted that the Ulster player is offside in that clip.

Which one - when the ball hits diacks backside? If so it's not offside as he didn't have possession - offside can only occur after a kick or knock on.
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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.

Prove it ?



"Reverting to type again I see marty. Why you cannot debate in a sensible grown up way is beyond comprehension."

"Seriously, you are getting tiresome now. Grow up, thats the thing with some of you and your mates on here. When you have been shown up, you revert to type"

"FFS. Is there no humility with you on here ? I always knew I was right. Time and time again this evidence was given, you just decided to ignore it to suit your own agenda. I would not keep on about something if I was just guessing. FFS, what is the matter with you ?"

"No you are not. You are just going against everything I say just to stir up a bun fight. I have answered all your questions in a very adequate manner, yet you still keep on finding things to pipe up about. If I said tomorrow was Wednesday, you would find a reason to counter it."

Not going to trudge through all your comments, although not sure if I can. Has the site started to limit the saved comments? Anyway, here's a few.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:56 pm

Oh but those aren't insults, because LD doesn't insult people.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 12:59 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

Nope. He's clearly on his arse when he rips the ball

https://vine.co/u/1137378498177331200

He had both his hands on the ball while on his feet. The other player was holding the ball while off his feet, and trying to prevent the ball from being ripped. The rip occurs just as the player is going to ground, but the fact is he contested the ball fairly while on his feet.

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Post by Notch Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:00 pm

Brilliant. Another thread ruined by referee whinging. Just fantastic. Well done clap
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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:00 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Oh but those aren't insults, because LD doesn't insult people.

I know. He's such a saint angel

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Post by Notch Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

He wasn't on his arse. He had the ball in his hand while he was on his feet, while the other player had his hands on the ball off his feet! I pointed this out, and you offered no defence. Stop spoofing!

Nope. He's clearly on his arse when he rips the ball

https://vine.co/u/1137378498177331200


There will be an insult and an accusation followed by sarcasm coming your way if you keep proving him wrong chunks.

Well this is a pretty amazing example because one look at it is enough to tell me it is perfectly legal and in fact good play. Not only that, but saying he is on his arse when he rips the ball... is just wrong. It's not like its a debatable thing either. If you actually watch that clip, he's not. It's not 50/50, or marginal. What you're saying about it just isn't true.

I would also point out it is completely irrelevant to the discussion of this game.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:05 pm

I think we should just stop creating match threads involving Irish and Welsh teams. Or at least the Ulster games involving the Welsh teams. The Ulster fans can discuss the match on the Ulster team thread.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:22 pm

It's disappointing that every thread involving Irish and Welsh is getting hijacked. This thread was fine yesterday, but I knew this was going to happen to this thread this morning.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:44 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Not one Irish person has admitted that the Ulster player is offside in that clip.

What on earth do you want? The IRFU rugby moral police to come on here and publicly announce that a mistake was made?

It was a mistake like many more made in this game and in many other games. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't see you waving your arms around for the Australian fans on these forums to publicly announce the mistake made by Craig Joubert? These things happen in almost every single game. It isn't bias, it is poor officiating that will hopefully improve over time.

Also, if your agenda wasn't so clear to many on here, then you may actually get an intelligent debate. Why should people dance to your consistently boring music?

All we got was a pathetic attempt at vindicating the awful referees decision. Not one acknowledgement of the awful inexplicable decision. Quite unsurprising I suppose given the disingenuous nature of the postings on here.

Comparing this obvious offside to the Joubert one is just another case of being disingenuous. The 2 situations are nowhere near alike.

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Post by GavinDragon Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:51 pm

Notch wrote:Brilliant. Another thread ruined by referee whinging. Just fantastic. Well done clap

Im sorry I made a valid point about the failure of the league to provide neutral refs, others have taken that as an opportunity to derail the thread.

I stand by what I said.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 1:57 pm

Neutrality isn't the issue, it's competence. The touch judges yesterday were Welsh.

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:15 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Notch wrote:Brilliant. Another thread ruined by referee whinging. Just fantastic. Well done clap

Im sorry I made a valid point about the failure of the league to provide neutral refs, others have taken that as an opportunity to derail the thread.

I stand by what I said.

I don't know, but don't think it was aimed at you, but the usual suspects. It's fair to have that opinion, and it would be a benefit if we had enough refs from other country's to ref the league. We don't, but I really don't see that as being an issue, other than to help counter suspicions. Suspicions that are without justification. There is no evidence of bias.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 09 Nov 2015, 2:25 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Not one Irish person has admitted that the Ulster player is offside in that clip.

What on earth do you want? The IRFU rugby moral police to come on here and publicly announce that a mistake was made?

It was a mistake like many more made in this game and in many other games. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't see you waving your arms around for the Australian fans on these forums to publicly announce the mistake made by Craig Joubert? These things happen in almost every single game. It isn't bias, it is poor officiating that will hopefully improve over time.

Also, if your agenda wasn't so clear to many on here, then you may actually get an intelligent debate. Why should people dance to your consistently boring music?

All we got was a pathetic attempt at vindicating the awful referees decision. Not one acknowledgement of the awful inexplicable decision. Quite unsurprising I suppose given the disingenuous nature of the postings on here.

Comparing this obvious offside to the Joubert one is just another case of being disingenuous. The 2 situations are nowhere near alike.

You're right - the consequences for the Joubert mistake were MUCH bigger.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:13 pm

This place is so tedious and quite insulting.
What ever you think of the referees to constantly accuse them of bias i.e. cheating is completely without foundation and quite frankly those who make such accusation don't belong here.

Moderators need to take a stronger line on this and consider banning such people

In a ideal word we would want neutral referees for all Pro12 games.
That cannot occur because Scotland and Italy provide insufficient referees for the league.
So we go with Some Welsh referees in Ireland and some Irish referees in Wales when welsh and irish teams play each other.
The league monitor them and have seen no evidence of bias - they key factor is who is at home not who referees the match.

Yes we know Phillips is a poor referee, Wales have a similar individual in Phillips.
In an ideal world such people would not be on the panel but they are and all should live with it.

As to that offside why didn't the Welsh linesman pick it up he was in a much better position than the referee?

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.

Prove it ?



"Reverting to type again I see marty. Why you cannot debate in a sensible grown up way is beyond comprehension."

"Seriously, you are getting tiresome now. Grow up, thats the thing with some of you and your mates on here. When you have been shown up, you revert to type"

"FFS. Is there no humility with you on here ? I always knew I was right. Time and time again this evidence was given, you just decided to ignore it to suit your own agenda. I would not keep on about something if I was just guessing. FFS, what is the matter with you ?"

"No you are not. You are just going against everything I say just to stir up a bun fight. I have answered all your questions in a very adequate manner, yet you still keep on finding things to pipe up about. If I said tomorrow was Wednesday, you would find a reason to counter it."

Not going to trudge through all your comments, although not sure if I can. Has the site started to limit the saved comments? Anyway, here's a few.

No insults at all in that little montage sorry. Please try harder.
picard

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:19 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Neutrality isn't the issue, it's competence. The touch judges yesterday were Welsh.

I agree 100%. There are only one lot bringing nationality into it. I have said time and again, ALL the refs in our league are poor, why ? Because they are all part time. We need full time professional refs in our league, controlled by the league, not the unions, and ALL nationalities.

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Post by munkian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:25 pm

Agreed, he was clearly out of his depth and had zero help from the touch judges.

It was just unfortunate for the Dragons that a fair few of his mistakes aided Ulster.
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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by GavinDragon Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:26 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:This place is so tedious and quite insulting.
What ever you think of the referees to constantly accuse them of bias i.e. cheating is completely without foundation and quite frankly those who make such accusation don't belong here.

Moderators need to take a stronger line on this and consider banning  such people

In a ideal word we would want neutral referees for all Pro12 games.
That cannot occur because Scotland and Italy provide insufficient referees for the league.
So we go with Some Welsh referees in Ireland and some Irish referees in Wales when welsh and irish teams play each other.
The league monitor them and have seen no evidence of bias - they key factor is who is at home not who referees the match.

Yes we know Phillips is a poor referee, Wales have a similar individual in Phillips.
In an ideal world such people would not be on the panel but they are and all should live with it.

As to that offside why didn't the Welsh linesman pick it up he was in a much better position than the referee?

Conscious bias is cheating. Unconscious bias is not. And my gripe is less so with the referee than with a supposed professional league who, I hope, is trying to increase its commercial offering by improving its product, and is unable or unwilling to invest sufficiently in its officials to allow completely neutral referees. And you won't budge me on that view; and if that is a banable offence then I question the point in a forum at all.


Last edited by GavinDragon on Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : reworded)

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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.

Prove it ?



"Reverting to type again I see marty. Why you cannot debate in a sensible grown up way is beyond comprehension."

"Seriously, you are getting tiresome now. Grow up, thats the thing with some of you and your mates on here. When you have been shown up, you revert to type"

"FFS. Is there no humility with you on here ? I always knew I was right. Time and time again this evidence was given, you just decided to ignore it to suit your own agenda. I would not keep on about something if I was just guessing. FFS, what is the matter with you ?"

"No you are not. You are just going against everything I say just to stir up a bun fight. I have answered all your questions in a very adequate manner, yet you still keep on finding things to pipe up about. If I said tomorrow was Wednesday, you would find a reason to counter it."

Not going to trudge through all your comments, although not sure if I can. Has the site started to limit the saved comments? Anyway, here's a few.

No insults at all in that little montage sorry. Please try harder.
picard

Like this one: " it's you and your mafia .." and there's many others, but I'm not wasting my time trying to prove something already proven.

You wouldn't see this as insulting because you live in a bubble. Yes, that's insulting, I know. You are the model poster according to you...

Guest
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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:31 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:This place is so tedious and quite insulting.
What ever you think of the referees to constantly accuse them of bias i.e. cheating is completely without foundation and quite frankly those who make such accusation don't belong here.

Moderators need to take a stronger line on this and consider banning  such people

In a ideal word we would want neutral referees for all Pro12 games.
That cannot occur because Scotland and Italy provide insufficient referees for the league.
So we go with Some Welsh referees in Ireland and some Irish referees in Wales when welsh and irish teams play each other.
The league monitor them and have seen no evidence of bias - they key factor is who is at home not who referees the match.

Yes we know Phillips is a poor referee, Wales have a similar individual in Phillips.
In an ideal world such people would not be on the panel but they are and all should live with it.

As to that offside why didn't the Welsh linesman pick it up he was in a much better position than the referee?

Conscious bias is cheating. Unconscious bias is not. And my gripe is less so with the referee than with a supposed professional league who, I hope, is trying to increase its commercial offering by improving its product, being unable to invest sufficiently in its officials to allow completely neutral referees. And you won't budge me on that view; and if that is a banable offence then I question the point in a forum at all.

How do you prove 'unconscious bias'? By looking at the stats? It's not a good measure, but the only one that I can think of, and one that proves there is no unconscious bias, or otherwise.

Guest
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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by geoff999rugby Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:34 pm

Talk to the Scots and the Italians then they are the ones providing insufficient referees to make neutral referees possible

The point you make about a banable offence is not what I am getting at, but I suspect you know that and are just trying to get a rise

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:35 pm

munkian wrote:Agreed, he was clearly out of his depth and had zero help from the touch judges.

It was just unfortunate for the Dragons that a fair few of his mistakes aided Ulster.

Guest
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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by munkian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:36 pm

Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:Agreed, he was clearly out of his depth and had zero help from the touch judges.

It was just unfortunate for the Dragons that a fair few of his mistakes aided Ulster.

?
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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:38 pm

munkian wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:Agreed, he was clearly out of his depth and had zero help from the touch judges.

It was just unfortunate for the Dragons that a fair few of his mistakes aided Ulster.

?

My text disappeared. It's a conspiracy.

I did type, " Yes the Dragons would have won but for the ref aiding Ulster...."

Without actually meaning it, of course.

Guest
Guest


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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:39 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And you never dish out the insults?

No I don't actually. If you can find any evidence of it then I will apologise. But I will not be apologising as you will not find any evidence of me insulting people on here. I do not do it. Yet I secretly think you already know this, but if it helps you with your agenda on here, carry on....

You're a liar. You described the Ulster crowd as "thuggish" among other things not that long ago. If that isn't insulting people then I don't know what is. Maybe this is a real example of the hypocritical "holier than thou" attitude you accuse the Irish of?

That was when we were talking about that incident in Europe wasn't it ? When the player was fighting with an Ulster supporter because the supporter said something offensive to him. Also, we were talking about thuggish behavior of the players when the Ulster team were bottom of the fair play league.

Anyway, find the evidence of me doing it. Go on, I challenge you. It's not me throwing accusations and insults around, it's you and your mafia on here that are the experts for that behaviour.

You have dished out the insults, LD. You are playing the hypocrite.

Prove it ?



"Reverting to type again I see marty. Why you cannot debate in a sensible grown up way is beyond comprehension."

"Seriously, you are getting tiresome now. Grow up, thats the thing with some of you and your mates on here. When you have been shown up, you revert to type"

"FFS. Is there no humility with you on here ? I always knew I was right. Time and time again this evidence was given, you just decided to ignore it to suit your own agenda. I would not keep on about something if I was just guessing. FFS, what is the matter with you ?"

"No you are not. You are just going against everything I say just to stir up a bun fight. I have answered all your questions in a very adequate manner, yet you still keep on finding things to pipe up about. If I said tomorrow was Wednesday, you would find a reason to counter it."

Not going to trudge through all your comments, although not sure if I can. Has the site started to limit the saved comments? Anyway, here's a few.

No insults at all in that little montage sorry. Please try harder.
picard

Like this one: " it's you and your mafia .." and there's many others, but I'm not wasting my time trying to prove something already proven.

You wouldn't see this as insulting because you live in a bubble. Yes, that's insulting, I know. You are the model poster according to you...

You will have to educate me here then, go on. Where have I thrown an insult in that sentence ? By calling you part of a mafia ? Would you prefer it if I used gang ? Or mob ? Because that is how I feel I am being targeted on here by you, Marty, Geoff, Aukster, SecretFly, Pete amongst a few. You all team up and attack the one. You all seem to feel I am attacking the Irish because I reckon the refs in our league are insufficient. Oh well, how dare I have an opinion, it's not as if I call you all tin hatted loonies now is it ?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Neutrality isn't the issue, it's competence. The touch judges yesterday were Welsh.

I agree 100%. There are only one lot bringing nationality into it. I have said time and again, ALL the refs in our league are poor, why ? Because they are all part time. We need full time professional refs in our league, controlled by the league, not the unions, and ALL nationalities.
It was actually a certain Welsh poster who brought nationality and bias into these debates which has led to everyone being unable to actually debate this properly. This person even accused welsh, Scottish and Italian referees of being biased towards the provinces.

To say all the refs are poor is simply untrue. Mitrea is the most under rated ref in Workd rugby atm and Just because you think Owens is a poor ref does not make him one. You think Barnes is the benchmark but if you were to look on any AP forum you would see people who think otherwise. It's all about perspective.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:41 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Talk to the Scots and the Italians then they are the ones providing insufficient referees to make neutral referees possible

The point you make about a banable offence is not what I am getting at, but I suspect you know that and are just trying to get a rise

Why would we need more Scots and Italians though ? Yes it would be nice, variety is the spice of life and all that. All I reckon we need is a team of fully professional refs governed by the league, not the unions.

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Post by rodders Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:42 pm

I hope those Italian refs are making their own travel arrangements.
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Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15 - Page 4 Empty Re: Dragons v Ulster 8/11/15

Post by munkian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:43 pm

Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:Agreed, he was clearly out of his depth and had zero help from the touch judges.

It was just unfortunate for the Dragons that a fair few of his mistakes aided Ulster.

?

My text disappeared. It's a conspiracy.

I did type, " Yes the Dragons would have won but for the ref aiding Ulster...."

Without actually meaning it, of course.

Yes, that's clearly what I said....


Someone has left the Tinkywinky gate open in this thread.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:43 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Neutrality isn't the issue, it's competence. The touch judges yesterday were Welsh.

I agree 100%. There are only one lot bringing nationality into it. I have said time and again, ALL the refs in our league are poor, why ? Because they are all part time. We need full time professional refs in our league, controlled by the league, not the unions, and ALL nationalities.
It was actually a certain Welsh poster who brought nationality and bias into these debates which has led to everyone being unable to actually debate this properly. This person even accused welsh, Scottish and Italian referees of being biased towards the provinces.

To say all the refs are poor is simply untrue. Mitrea is the most under rated ref in Workd rugby atm and Just because you think Owens is a poor ref does not make him one. You think Barnes is the benchmark but if you were to look on any AP forum you would see people who think otherwise. It's all about perspective.

Fair enough, yes I can accept that, it is all down to perspective. BUT, and you must agree with on this at least. We need full time professional refs, in a full time professional league, all employed by one organisation, an organisation that is not employing players and coaches as well.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Talk to the Scots and the Italians then they are the ones providing insufficient referees to make neutral referees possible

The point you make about a banable offence is not what I am getting at, but I suspect you know that and are just trying to get a rise

Why would we need more Scots and Italians though ? Yes it would be nice, variety is the spice of life and all that. All I reckon we need is a team of fully professional refs governed by the league, not the unions.

But they'll all have nationalities. You have to come from somewhere. Unless you don't want any of the referees to come from any of the countries playing in the Pro12?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:44 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Talk to the Scots and the Italians then they are the ones providing insufficient referees to make neutral referees possible

The point you make about a banable offence is not what I am getting at, but I suspect you know that and are just trying to get a rise
It's amazing that in Super rugby the likes of Joubert, Jackson, Pyper etc can ref games involving teams from their own countries and not get accused of being biased. Nor do we hear that Super rugby is "unviable".

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