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Beautiful & Entertaining v Ugly & Boring

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Post by hawkeye Mon 09 Nov 2015, 3:05 pm

IMO Last weeks Basel final was beautiful and entertaining and from what I can gather (of course I didn't watch) yesterdays Paris final was ugly and boring. Tennis needs Nadal back to his best and a few young players to break through otherwise it won't just be Barclays deciding to put their money elsewhere.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:03 pm

What is that old saying? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. thumbsup
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:31 pm

Not sure about the Ugly.. didn't watch... tooo boring too predictable. Sampras killed tennis for me many moons ago .. Novak has usurped him and then some same old same old...
All his opponents look like journeymen.

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Post by LuvSports! Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:50 pm

It wasn't beautiful and it was not bad to watch.
Feds produced the "beauty".

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:51 pm

Tennis needs Connors back to his best.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 09 Nov 2015, 5:01 pm

LuvSports! wrote:It wasn't beautiful and it was not bad to watch.
Feds produced the "beauty".

As CC said THAT is in the eye of the beholder Wink

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:12 pm

yummymummy3

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Post by Guest Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:30 pm

I am sure there's an MTO dying to get out!

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Post by LuvSports! Mon 09 Nov 2015, 6:48 pm

Nadal doesn't do beautiful tennis... but if he did.... it would probably....nah he doesn't do beautiful tennis.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:13 pm

I find the tennis Djokovic is currently to be playing to be incredibly beautiful and entertaining. Most other fans I speak with on matches at my club who actually play enjoy his play and are amazed as well. He does everything so well and makes numerous jaw dropping plays and shots constantly. There is an old Persian saying :"If someone is a sleep you can wake them up, but if someone is pretending to be asleep you can't wake them up." Those who want to dislike the man's game or his personality or his performances will because they love someone else and Novak beats their hero. I admit it, I don't like Federer for much the same reason that is why I don't judge you too harshly. Like who you like, but if you are going to criticize him at least come up with things that are reasonable. Nothing much about his game is "boring" or "ugly",  I mean if moving like a gazelle and having every shot in the book is ugly I suppose. If his CC FH that blows up short in the box and kicks into the stands is ugly well maybe you should find another sport to watch, I don't know maybe rhythmic gymnastics or something that is pretty enough for you.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 09 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

I have to say I love when Hawkeye does these posts, that means that someone other than Fed or Nadal is dominating. And that someone is always Novak Djokovic.

Here is my prediction, if Novak pushes on further and continues to break various records and dominate the game and pushes himself further up into the elite echelons of the pantheon of greats we will see more disgruntled fans of Fedal coming up with these types of posts or like Jahu veiled references and innuendos about unfair advantages etc. And I will enjoy every second of it, your tears are like a sweet nectar of ambrosia for me.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 09 Nov 2015, 8:01 pm

Oh since we are doing youtube cartoon highlights to illustrate points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g

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Post by Jahu Mon 09 Nov 2015, 9:11 pm

So far in my life, I have found out that Ugly is always more Entertaining, at least with girls, as ugly girls compensate for their ugliness with supreme entertainment and hard work, nothing to lose, so give it all in, since beauty is not available.

As for tennis, Djoko has killed tennis, and Andy seems to be helping him with crappy play.

Dark times for tennis are here already, lets hope at least ugly girls don't disappear...
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Post by Jahu Mon 09 Nov 2015, 9:33 pm

socal, relax man and Ambrosia custard is really nice, and whats with you always picking up on me?

I veiled nothing, I never said any unfair advantage for Djoko, just that Gluten kids stories are a joke.

Chill now
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Post by Henman Bill Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:05 am

I think Socal is onto something. Last few days Jahu is just doing anti Djokovic comments more than ever, and now the Nadal fans are joining in.

Now Djokovic is winning everything some people aren't too happy.

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:26 am

Djokovic is playing unreal tennis atm, so confident and simply a class above every other player this year. He's proven himself as a true ATG, and I see no reason why he can't continue from strength to strength and keep dominating in the next few years.
In terms of how entertaining he is, that is simply a matter of personal opinion. For those who know me well, I am a Nadal fan, so obviously I like watching Nadal play and thus like rivalries including my favourite player. With Nadal and Federer ageing, I do hope we get a new player who can have a really close rivalry with Djokovic.

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:31 am

socal1976 wrote:And I will enjoy every second of it, your tears are like a sweet nectar of ambrosia for me.

Enjoy it, Djokovic has delivered enough roller coaster rides so all his fans deserve it.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:35 am

Novak plays incredible tennis, not exactly beautiful in my eyes but certainly incredible. The way he can contort his body, the way he can reach any kind of shots with his flexibility and to never give up a point, what a player!

Yep, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder - some like beautiful strokes, some like incredible gets, and some like the excitement of roller coaster rides from brink of defeat back to victory, etc and etc.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:38 am

Ive hope for Alex Zverev and Dominic Thiem. Hope in the next few years, they can reach or at least start to realize their full potential.

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Post by socal1976 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:44 am

It Must Be Love wrote:
socal1976 wrote:And I will enjoy every second of it, your tears are like a sweet nectar of ambrosia for me.

Enjoy it, Djokovic has delivered enough roller coaster rides so all his fans deserve it.

Yep, prior to 2011 it was very tough to be a Djokovic fan as he was not appreciated at all and usually the target of criticism for a wide range of things some of which was fair and some of which was just dismissive and unfair. We Djokovic fans since 2011 have been spoiled and the difficult period of post AO 2008 till AO 2011 where he was called a lucky one slam wonder, a faker, a hypochondriac etc. But of course tennis is fickle so I am sure this period will come to end and that's why you have to enjoy it while it lasts.

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Post by socal1976 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:48 am

Henman Bill wrote:I think Socal is onto something. Last few days Jahu is just doing anti Djokovic comments more than ever, and now the Nadal fans are joining in.

Now Djokovic is winning everything some people aren't too happy.

Bingo, I am sure there will be innuendos about PED and egg chambers coming thick and fast. As he wins and dominates further chipping away at the uniqueness of the accomplishments of Federer and or Nadal we will see these type of innuendos come along. On a second front we will see the HE's of the world talk about how his game is boring, lacks beauty, is repetitive, how the fans don't love him like the anointed ones Roger and Rafa etc. It will be three pronged attack. 1. Djokovic is a cheat 2. Who cares if he is great the fans don't love him 3. His game is boring

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:11 am

HB makes one of his blanket statements as usual citing that Nada fans are
"joining in"  I have not criticised Novak's tennis .. I am purely agreeing with the fact that tennis is, for me at the moment boring.  I said and I reiterate that he makes his opponents look like journeymen... what does that tell you other than the fact that there is nobody to challenge him..
Yes] HB that includes NADAL.
Fed,Rafa an Andy cant hold a torch to him and they represent the remainder of the BIG FOUR...That says it all
Yes HB tennis is getting boring.
Signed: A Nadal fan

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 8:10 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/11983518/Novak-Djokovic-is-so-far-ahead-of-his-rivals-that-the-Big-Four-has-become-the-Big-One.html

I rest my case Smile

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Post by Jahu Tue 10 Nov 2015, 9:38 am

Henman Bill wrote:I think Socal is onto something. Last few days Jahu is just doing anti Djokovic comments more than ever, and now the Nadal fans are joining in.

Last few years, not days Laugh

Join the Club, don't feel in minority like a couple of Djoko fans here laughing

P.S: Who is editing my comments regarding fruits & nuts? Who is so anti fruit and nuts here? boxing Laugh
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Post by Jahu Tue 10 Nov 2015, 9:39 am

socal1976 wrote:1. Djokovic is a cheat 2. Who cares if he is great the fans don't love him 3. His game is boring

These are the most truthful words you have ever spoken thumbsup
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Post by break_in_the_fifth Tue 10 Nov 2015, 10:10 am

Djokovic isn't my favourite player but it's fine with me that he's winning everything. I would have been fine if Federer had continued winning everything if they hadn't slowed the courts down. Now that they have and Djokovic is winning everything, so be it. Federer has lost his last 3 slam finals to him and though I wish he could have taken just one of them it's not too bad.

I'm just glad it's not Nadal that is winning everything as to me he was the most boring player. I'm glad Djokovic stopped him and if he goes on to have the slam record then good for him. I find it funny that the people are saying its boring because one player is winning everything weren't complaining when that player was Nadal. You should just come out and say that it's Djokovic/some player you don't like winning that you're not happy with.

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Post by temporary21 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 11:05 am

Hawkeye! We've missed you

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:03 pm

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Djokovic isn't my favourite player but it's fine with me that he's winning everything. I would have been fine if Federer had continued winning everything if they hadn't slowed the courts down. Now that they have and Djokovic is winning everything, so be it. Federer has lost his last 3 slam finals to him and though I wish he could have taken just one of them it's not too bad.

I'm just glad it's not Nadal that is winning everything as to me he was the most boring player. I'm glad Djokovic stopped him and if he goes on to have the slam record then good for him. I find it funny that the people are saying its boring because one player is winning everything weren't complaining when that player was Nadal. You should just come out and say that it's Djokovic/some player you don't like winning that you're not happy with.

How long does it take on any thread about any subject about any player for the Nadal/Nadal Fan bashers to get the boot in.?
Jeeezuz .. you didn't even bother to see the point so anxious were you to not only bark up the wrong tree but be in  the wrong bloody forest .. I never said I did not like Novak.. show me where I did. Who cares whether you think Nadal is a boring player.. I feel the same about many players. You should be careful about jumping to your own misguided conclusions

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Post by break_in_the_fifth Tue 10 Nov 2015, 12:53 pm

It seems you missed my point as well... You said tennis is getting boring. When Nadal dominated, it was a similar situation but I'm pretty sure you weren't saying it was boring then. I didn't say you said you didn't like Djokovic, I said you should have said it.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:07 pm

Why should I have said it? when I don't mean it. He might not be my favourite player but neither is he my least favourite. Again you miss the point..Where are the challengers coming from.?. Federer dominated for yonks until Nadal came along.. Rafa dominated until he was challenged by Novak.
Tennis is suffering a drought of top class players. That is why it is boring..
I don't watch tennis to see Novak win match after match, I don't watch to see him lose.. I watch only to see someone, anyone, who can find the skill and strategy to break his hold .. no matter who that player is. Where is that coming from
you tell me.. ??
See the article I posted earlier.. no longer the BIG FOUR none of them have the weapons.
Yes I repeat tennis has become boring

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Post by YvonneT Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:20 pm

I didn't watch either HE, so can't have an opinion on the specific match, but I do find the best sport view occasions involve some level of suspense over the result. That being the case, I'm sure the Basel final was more entertaining than Paris final, indeed as both finalists struggled through some of the earlier rounds than perhaps the whole tournament was more entertaining. I don't normally feel much uncertainty about Fedal, so the surface and Nadal's recent form was a big help in that.  

As for the beautiful v ugly part, I don't expect tennis or any sport really to be beautiful, but I do enjoy the variety of players that we have now - to describe them in one word I would go more for "graceful" than beautiful for Federer, "brutal" for Nadal and I would choose "precise" rather than ugly for Djokovic and perhaps "athletic" for Murray, but of course they vary from match to match and have all produced some beautiful shots and some ugly tennis at time.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:25 pm

He has been challenged actually HN just not often. The trouble is its hard to put a winner past him and you doubt yourself after a length of time trying to gain the upper hand. You have to be very confident and highly aggressive or you'll lose, the only guy who beat him where it mattered was Stan who was highly aggressive.
His game is basically the same as Nadal's used to be except Novak does more than just topspin to the backhand OK

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Post by YvonneT Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:29 pm

I suppose the thing is, HN, that no-one knew at the end of 2010 that Djokovic would step up to challenge Nadal in the way he did. At that time, no doubt, plenty of people thought it was boring and plenty others were really enjoying what they were seeing. I would prefer to see more of a challenge to Djokovic, but I still think there is plenty to appreciate in what he is doing, and plenty of other matches to provide interest if you want to appreciate something else. After all, Djokovic wasn't at Madrid, Stuttgart, Halle, Queens, Basel to name a few.

Djokovic still has Roland Garros as a challenge to overcome, and Cincinatti and I'm presuming the Olympics will also be a target. He has struggled in the past when trying acheive a big goal, his performance can dip so let's see how he does next year.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:50 pm

Thanks to Rafa in 2013 and to Stan in 2014/2015 for making tennis more interesting, if not it'll be another boring one player dominating everything or almost everything era not unlike 2004-2007.

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Post by Jahu Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:54 pm

Oh come on people, It's enough just me to kick Djoko in the nuts around the Forum, so you others please give him a little support....NOT!!! Yahoo
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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:07 pm

Yvonne its not a matter of whether I think Novak is boring.. he does what he does extremely well and deserves his success. However when Rafa was dominating.. players found a way of neutralising his game (as it should be)
Rafa found a way of neutralising Federer (as it should have been) Their weaknesses were exploited.
Where is the player that cannot see what has to be done to do likewise to Novak???  (Please don't tell me he hasn't any Socal.).he will emerge Im sure .eventually.... in the meantime "Players Please" note that Dolgopolov has come very close.. but not close enough.
Until that happens tennis is in danger of becoming very stagnant and predictable...hence again I say BORING

In the meantime is there any point in watching the ATP finals Rolling Eyes

PS there has always been matches when  it has been UGLY I doubt there is a player who has not been guilty of that at sometime.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:19 pm

15 matches at the O2, only 5 of them (maximum) will feature Djokovic. So that's 10 matches to watch (unless one of them is Fed/Ferrer - I'll be skipping that one).

I don't think Djoko's current domination is boring yet - the records he's setting, and aiming for, are tremendous, and keeps things interesting and his ability to dominate is fascinating. Connors 74, Mac 84 etc weren't boring. Another 9 - 12 months of it and I may well change my mind though. But that's a long time in tennis - could be a lot of changes by then.

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Post by Guest Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:34 pm

It is just one of those things.  

For example when Stepanak was on top of his game and winning he couldn't help but win ugly.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:37 pm

Ouch Very Happy

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:38 pm

Do you think HN that Nadal winning the French Open 9 times was boring??

To me that was far more dull than seeing a guy have an amazing 12 months like this.
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Post by hawkeye Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:42 pm

Nore Staat wrote:It is just one of those things.  

For example when Stepanak was on top of his game and winning he couldn't help but win ugly.

Erm Shocked Stepanak is always entertaining and is definately a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder or beholders...

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:48 pm

If that had been the only tournament he won yes probably. However that as a record in itself is incredible
and I do like to see records broken

However, like Bjorg he was able to win on all surfaces thus his game varied and he was less dominant, and I was a big fan of Borg also
Rafa's game is different now to what it was then. when he came on to the scene . he like Borg broke the mould and thus he was unique.
That cant be said now, and I doubt it ever will be the case again.
So the question now remains hypothetical

That is not to say Im missing the point you are desperately trying to make JM Wink

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Post by Jahu Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

hawkeye wrote:

Erm Shocked Stepanak is always entertaining and is definately a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder or beholders...

Yeah, he even managed to bed Hingis and now Kvitova and a few models in between. He must be special when you don't look his face. Whistle

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Post by Jahu Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:10 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Do you think HN that Nadal winning the French Open 9 times was boring??

To me that was far more dull than seeing a guy have an amazing 12 months like this.

Both are boring, though agree Nadal & RG has to be most boring tennis thing to ever happened.

Djoko second on the list.

Third Andy with his never ending ability to play crap against big 3.
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Post by Guest Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:58 pm

When tennis is boring and predictable life becomes unexciting. What to do?

How about doing something to take advantage of the boring predictability of tennis, doing something to generate excitement in watching tennis and at the same time spicing up your life from dull to highly interesting?

This is what you should do: invest your life savings on Djokovic winning Wimbledon, on Nadal getting to the quarter-finals of Roland Garros. Make your life even more exciting by double mortgaging your house and betting it all on Murray getting soundly beaten at the Australian Open Final, then swearing at Mauresmo and punching his racquet into submission.

Can you handle the excitement? I dare you, go on. I dare you.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:11 pm

Ha, I would think that Fed winning 7 Wimbledon and 5 consecutive USO was even more boring than Nadal winning at the FO. Fed winning 3 slams a year for three out of four years may be worse than what Novak has been doing for the past five years.

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Post by LuvSports! Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:16 pm

Feds winning is never boring.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:29 pm

LuvSports! wrote:Feds winning is never boring.

In your opinion..which appears to be  very humble indeed. Wink

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Post by Haddie-nuff Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:30 pm

Nore Staat wrote:When tennis is boring and predictable life becomes unexciting.  What to do?  

How about doing something to take advantage of the boring predictability of tennis, doing something to generate excitement in watching tennis and at the same time spicing up your life from dull to highly interesting?

This is what you should do: invest your life savings on Djokovic winning Wimbledon, on Nadal getting to the quarter-finals of Roland Garros. Make your life even more exciting by double mortgaging your house and betting it all on Murray getting soundly beaten at the Australian Open Final, then swearing at Mauresmo and punching his racquet into submission.

Can you handle the excitement?  I dare you, go on. I dare you.  

What life savings..??? Shocked

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Post by temporary21 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:37 pm

One sided matches to me are always boring. No matter who plays it. Novak gets a bum rap , people look for reasons to dislike him. You won't see better returning from anyone else than him. It's mind boggling

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