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Mike Brown - I have lost all trust in my England team-mates

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:35 pm

Pretty damming comments from angry man.

Seems like a lot things is broken with England at the moment, would love to be a fly on the wall when these guys get back together for the 6 nations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11986186/Mike-Brown-I-have-lost-all-trust-in-my-England-team-mates-after-Rugby-World-Cup-leaks.html

As it is Mike is one of the nailed on starters if fit I'd make him Captain for this years 6 Nations as we need to show some fight/fire on the pitch and no BS off it, I think he'll be good at that.
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Post by LondonTiger Tue 10 Nov 2015, 1:51 pm

I have no idea what leaks from players he is talking about.

Reading that though my own opinion of Brown has dropped.

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Post by sad_gimp Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:02 pm

The England set up and leaks has been an absolute joke for years, it does nothing but harm the team.

It's not on all these players and staff shooting their mouths off anonymously to the press (no doubt for backhanders). Good on him for saying it I say.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:05 pm

Whoop de doop. He is willing to be named when getting paid a sizeable sum to slate the entire team and squad.

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Post by Marshes Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:09 pm

Et Tu, Mike?

Bit harsh to be piping up now, feels like a rat leaving a sinking ship when all the noises before the World Cup about culture and togetherness.

Maybe he would be a decent captain on the field but off it in interviews he sometimes comes across as petulant and immature.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:09 pm

Oh my god. Why would you go to the press with that?

Presumably another nail rattled into Lancaster's coffin.
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Post by TightHEAD Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:24 pm

Why would SL want to stay after this mess?
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Post by Barney McGrew did it Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:25 pm

I like this guy - you go girlfriend!

But what England needs now is a coach to sort out the culture and respect issues in the team.

Oh wait a minute...
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Post by HammerofThunor Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:33 pm

I don't understand some of the links in there. The one for anonymous players making comments links to something that doesn't have that (unless it's in the comments section, which I didn't bother reading).

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:46 pm

I like Mike a hell of a lot....I like is fire and aggression, but ah he should have kept his gob shut on this. It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

The only thing it makes me think is all this rubbish that Lancaster kept spouting about culture etc he was actually deluded to how close the squad were.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 10 Nov 2015, 2:56 pm

I think its also a sign that the looking for scapegoats on the back of the RWC failure extends to the squad as it does to everyone else with an opinion on the matter

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:03 pm

The more i hear the more I cringe about whats gone on in this bloomin squad!

Lack of leadership in the players.
Poor leadership seemingly from the management
Outside factors (like share schemes) affecting the squad



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Post by fa0019 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:31 pm

He's a quins man... a lot of the quins boys know what's coming for their captain. They're up against it and its showing.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:35 pm

Not sure about that FA.

Robshaw should lose his captaincy...but should still be very much in the options for the number 6 shirt.

He's a battler....he'll run through a brick wall for the team if he could...but he's not a good enough Captain for this England team.

I don't see this as Mike Brown defending his Captain...I see it as him mouthing off for nothing. Frustration.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:38 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Not sure about that FA.

Robshaw should lose his captaincy...but should still be very much in the options for the number 6 shirt.

He's a battler....he'll run through a brick wall for the team if he could...but he's not a good enough Captain for this England team.

I don't see this as Mike Brown defending his Captain...I see it as him mouthing off for nothing. Frustration.

I've heard Marler, O'Shea, Brown all rather vocal post world cup..., more so than others in very defensive tones. Haskell opens his mouth regardless  in good times in bad so whatever he says can't ever be seen as a real example. It does look like Robshaw will lose the 7 shirt and the captains jersey. I'd worry for him starting given guys like wood offer better lineout options and then you wonder... will Robshaw still be able to play a bit part as a squad player after being the captain?

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Post by MacKnocked-on Tue 10 Nov 2015, 3:56 pm

In this grim HR driven world of company 'cultures and values' and homogenised employees Brown will probably find himself dropped regardless of being comfortably England's best fullback.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:16 pm

It seems it was mostly aimed at back room staff who shouldn't be there. It seems he didn't say anything too damning about the players in the squad, apart from insinuate that they shouldn't be criticising the tactics or each other, unless they could critique themselves first. Either way though, he's still a gobshite.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:31 pm

fa0019 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Not sure about that FA.

Robshaw should lose his captaincy...but should still be very much in the options for the number 6 shirt.

He's a battler....he'll run through a brick wall for the team if he could...but he's not a good enough Captain for this England team.

I don't see this as Mike Brown defending his Captain...I see it as him mouthing off for nothing. Frustration.

I've heard Marler, O'Shea, Brown all rather vocal post world cup..., more so than others in very defensive tones. Haskell opens his mouth regardless  in good times in bad so whatever he says can't ever be seen as a real example. It does look like Robshaw will lose the 7 shirt and the captains jersey. I'd worry for him starting given guys like wood offer better lineout options and then you wonder... will Robshaw still be able to play a bit part as a squad player after being the captain?

Bar the lineout, (which Robshaw is actually not bad at) he is comfortably better than Wood in every facet of the game (at the moment anyway). Wood hasn't been the player we think of for quite some time.

When you consider all the rest of the competition for the 6 shirt...most are inexperienced. Only really Ewers is really putting his hand up.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:33 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It seems it was mostly aimed at back room staff who shouldn't be there. It seems he didn't say anything too damning about the players in the squad, apart from insinuate that they shouldn't be criticising the tactics or each other, unless they could critique themselves first. Either way though, he's still a gobshite.

Hardly "still" a gobshite???

Hes fiery and aggressive, and wears his heart on his sleeve. At least its refreshing to see a player (one of our best) who is genuinely visibly gutted, and angry about the way this WC went.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:48 pm

He's defending his coach, not his captain, and attacking people for anonymous stories in the press. Sounds like the kitman story?

Anyway. I can't argue with anything he's said, if there have been leaks, though I personally would have advised against saying it. Except this bit:

"“I don’t think anyone was good enough in an England shirt to be piping up saying: ‘This was wrong, that was wrong’ and that sort of thing."

which was definitely true.

Also, as per usual, the headline is misleading and a lot of the article is just common sense

As for Robshaw, if he is discarded, it will be England's loss and Harlequins' gain, just like with Easter. I don't think he will be though, he'll be in the squad
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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:59 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It seems it was mostly aimed at back room staff who shouldn't be there. It seems he didn't say anything too damning about the players in the squad, apart from insinuate that they shouldn't be criticising the tactics or each other, unless they could critique themselves first. Either way though, he's still a gobshite.

Hardly "still" a gobshite???

Hes fiery and aggressive, and wears his heart on his sleeve. At least its refreshing to see a player (one of our best) who is genuinely visibly gutted, and angry about the way this WC went.

I agree with how you described him. But still a gobshite on the pitch, trying to act tough and failing miserably. That's an ugly trait.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:00 pm

?failing?
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Post by BamBam Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:04 pm

The Welsh are still in thrall that a forward managed to push a full back a little bit backwards, I wouldn't worry about it too much CJ

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Post by nlpnlp Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:37 pm

The first thing you learn at a rugby club is "what goes on tour stays on tour" and it should be exactly the same with England - no tittle tattling to the press.  You win as a team and lose as a team.  I agree 100% with what Brown said, no one in an England shirt played well enough in the world cup to criticise other people - they are just making excuses.  A pretty stiff broom needs to be taken to the team - coaching and players - and the rot needs to be got rid of.

I don't think Brown is England captain material, but at least he has a bit pride and attitude, which a few more players in the team could do with.

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Post by Bathman_in_London Tue 10 Nov 2015, 5:40 pm

Mike Brown is the sort of player I dislike except when he is on my team, which is no bad thing.

I don't think he has helped here though, he would have been better to just keep his mouth shut.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 10 Nov 2015, 8:24 pm

I like that players speak their mind.... but Lordy, ya gotta be prepared to be called a hypocrite if the act of speaking your mind is designed to criticise players that spoke their mind.

It's a bit like the 'no comment' from politicians that linger around big events, wait for journalists to turn up, push themselves in front of a camera only to brashly give a 'no comment' before walking off in an affected huff.

The "I know more than you do" show of reticent delight.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 10 Nov 2015, 8:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:I like that players speak their mind.... but Lordy, ya gotta be prepared to be called a hypocrite if the act of speaking your mind is designed to criticise players that spoke their mind.

It's a bit like the 'no comment' from politicians that linger around big events, wait for journalists to turn up, push themselves in front of a camera only to brashly give a 'no comment' before walking off in an affected huff.

The "I know more than you do" show of reticent delight.

Exactly... does he not have the sense to realise he is doing the very thing he is criticising others for? He is just adding to the circus.

Every professional team has these disputes - it is a part of professional sport and having so many confident and strange characters sharing space with one another both on and off the field is always going to lead to strong disagreements, to put it mildly. These things are better sorted out within the camps and the more kept from the media the better. Otherwise it will just blow out of proportion like this almighty series of blunders from the England camp. The media will keep feeding and feeding until the coaches, players and all others involved have the sense to stop.

The media can't really be blamed at all for any of this. What else would you expect from them?

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Post by nathan Tue 10 Nov 2015, 8:41 pm

His gripe is for players speaking to the media anonymously, if they have something to say, put there name to it.... which is exactly what he has just done

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 10 Nov 2015, 8:45 pm

Why give anything else to the media though? Is he trying to prove to the world that he is the big man who can give his name along with the statement? Good for him, but as I have already said he is just adding to the circus and making England even more of a laughing stock than it already is.

I really do question the intelligence of some of these players.

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Post by englandglory4ever Tue 10 Nov 2015, 9:19 pm

The boil needs to be lanced. If players are leaking bad stuff to the press without their names then it should stop. Well done to Brown for standing up for good rugby traditions. I expect its the same tw@ts who chased Sam Burgess away. They need to be outed.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 10 Nov 2015, 9:44 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:The boil needs to be lanced. If players are leaking bad stuff to the press without their names then it should stop. Well done to Brown for standing up for good rugby traditions. I expect its the same tw@ts who chased Sam Burgess away. They need to be outed.

Laugh

I've missed you.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 10 Nov 2015, 11:15 pm

Mark Cueto spoke out recently saying that he resented the way Lancaster's focus on culture seemed to suggest that players of his generation had no respect for the England shirt, and overplayed how bad things had been four years ago.

I think Cueto is right things weren't so bad, but he ought to take a look at the shi*tstorm which has hit the set-up now and remember just how fed-up supporters were in the aftermath of 2011. Lancaster had no real choice but to try and put some distance between himself and the World Cup squad.

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Post by Hood83 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 11:22 pm

fa0019 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Not sure about that FA.

Robshaw should lose his captaincy...but should still be very much in the options for the number 6 shirt.

He's a battler....he'll run through a brick wall for the team if he could...but he's not a good enough Captain for this England team.

I don't see this as Mike Brown defending his Captain...I see it as him mouthing off for nothing. Frustration.

I've heard Marler, O'Shea, Brown all rather vocal post world cup..., more so than others in very defensive tones. Haskell opens his mouth regardless  in good times in bad so whatever he says can't ever be seen as a real example. It does look like Robshaw will lose the 7 shirt and the captains jersey. I'd worry for him starting given guys like wood offer better lineout options and then you wonder... will Robshaw still be able to play a bit part as a squad player after being the captain?

Perhaps, but he offers nothing else. Robshaw is miles ahead as a 6, along with Haskell, Ewers...basically everyone that plays there.

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Post by Hood83 Tue 10 Nov 2015, 11:26 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Mark Cueto spoke out recently saying that he resented the way Lancaster's focus on culture seemed to suggest that players of his generation had no respect for the England shirt, and overplayed how bad things had been four years ago.

I think Cueto is right things weren't so bad, but he ought to take a look at the shi*tstorm which has hit the set-up now and remember just how fed-up supporters were in the aftermath of 2011. Lancaster had no real choice but to try and put some distance between himself and the World Cup squad.

I think he's right. I remember thinking at the time 'I wonder how Johnson and those players not in the set up feel about Lancaster perpetually talking about the need to change the culture' I imagine, patronised and insulted.

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 10 Nov 2015, 11:39 pm

Hood83 wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Mark Cueto spoke out recently saying that he resented the way Lancaster's focus on culture seemed to suggest that players of his generation had no respect for the England shirt, and overplayed how bad things had been four years ago.

I think Cueto is right things weren't so bad, but he ought to take a look at the shi*tstorm which has hit the set-up now and remember just how fed-up supporters were in the aftermath of 2011. Lancaster had no real choice but to try and put some distance between himself and the World Cup squad.

I think he's right. I remember thinking at the time 'I wonder how Johnson and those players not in the set up feel about Lancaster perpetually talking about the need to change the culture' I imagine, patronised and insulted.
Agree completely.  

It is a strange thing.  Many athletes, and people in general, seem to feel they have some right or even an obligation to share their thoughts and feelings, especially when things go wrong.  The old fashioned notion of 'sit down, shut up, and get on with it' seems to be a thing of the past.  I don't like this trend, and as mentioned above, the team should come first.  

Society is going down the toilet.  What will happen next?  We give women the right to vote?  The merde will really hit the fan............

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Post by Biltong Wed 11 Nov 2015, 3:50 am

Being outspoken about team issues whilst still being part of that setup can only burn more bridges than it can mend.

Maybe not a good idea this for Brown to go public. Can more than likely turn sour for him.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 11 Nov 2015, 8:51 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It seems it was mostly aimed at back room staff who shouldn't be there. It seems he didn't say anything too damning about the players in the squad, apart from insinuate that they shouldn't be criticising the tactics or each other, unless they could critique themselves first. Either way though, he's still a gobshite.

Hardly "still" a gobshite???

Hes fiery and aggressive, and wears his heart on his sleeve. At least its refreshing to see a player (one of our best) who is genuinely visibly gutted, and angry about the way this WC went.

I agree with how you described him. But still a gobshite on the pitch, trying to act tough and failing miserably. That's an ugly trait.

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