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Pontypridd gone

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:00 pm

"Cardiff Blues to stop providing players to Premiership clubs Pontypridd and Cardiff RFC in major shake-up"

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/cardiff-blues-stop-providing-players-10432970

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

meh completely fed up with Welsh domestic rugby tbh.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:09 pm

GavinDragon wrote:meh completely fed up with Welsh domestic rugby tbh.

Join the club.

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:11 pm

well the future is looking bright for you. You have your club now shed of any responsibility others have tried to bestow upon you. You have, IMO, one of the best young coaches in Wales at the helm, an owner williing to flash the cash to get you the best players and his brother buying a nice feeder club near the heart of Wales

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:26 pm

GavinDragon wrote:well the future is looking bright for you. You have your club now shed of any responsibility others have tried to bestow upon you. You have, IMO, one of the best young coaches in Wales at the helm, an owner williing to flash the cash to get you the best players and his brother buying a nice feeder club near the heart of Wales

Who has identified that Cardiff have too many players, so there is to be a cull of sorts.

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 12 Nov 2015, 4:30 pm

yep. Will work out well for you next year.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 12 Nov 2015, 5:05 pm

It's interesting that this has happened so soon after Roger Lewis's departure.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 6:26 pm

So if the Blues have 'broken free' of Cardiff RFC and from Pontypridd RFC. I have a few questions

1) in an injury crisis, say only on fit tight head, can the Blues still use a player from Pontypridd or Cardiff? (Especially in Europe)

2) does this mean that the Blues players who are returning from injury or trying to rediscover form are no longer going to be able to step down to the semi-pros?

3) does this allow Cardiff RFC and Pontypridd RFC to now be affiliated to a different region? Could the Dragons/Ospreys now take Pontypridd under their umbrella?
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 6:33 pm

Scrap question one, just notice the bit in the article "instead of servicing players down, we intend to permit players up". That could end up awkward, as that would leave it in the hands of the semi-pros whether they are willing to allow the player, to go to the Blues or if they put their own interests first.
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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:08 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Scrap question one, just notice the bit in the article "instead of servicing players down, we intend to permit players up". That could end up awkward, as that would leave it in the hands of the semi-pros whether they are willing to allow the player, to go to the Blues or if they put their own interests first.

If required they could get players from anywhere though. Had an Aberavon front rower not so long ago.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:12 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:So if the Blues have 'broken free' of Cardiff RFC and from Pontypridd RFC.  I have a few questions

1) in an injury crisis, say only on fit tight head, can the Blues still use a player from Pontypridd or Cardiff? (Especially in Europe)

2) does this mean that the Blues players who are returning from injury or trying to rediscover form are no longer going to be able to step down to the semi-pros?

3) does this allow Cardiff RFC and Pontypridd RFC to now be affiliated to a different region?  Could the Dragons/Ospreys now take Pontypridd under their umbrella?

Point 2) I reckon there must be plans afoot for regular games for the A teams. More to come from all this I feel.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:13 pm

Dai, I'm sure that all those points have been considered, and are either non-issues, or work around a are in place. But i can't shake the feeling that this could bite the Blues in the rump in the coming seasons.
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Post by Guest Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

When will they officially become 'Glamorgan Blues'? I'm fed up of waiting. Sad

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:22 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai, I'm sure that all those points have been considered, and are either non-issues, or work around a are in place.  But i can't shake the feeling that this could bite the Blues in the rump in the coming seasons.

I reckon there is a bigger picture developing imo.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:28 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

3) does this allow Cardiff RFC and Pontypridd RFC to now be affiliated to a different region?  Could the Dragons/Ospreys now take Pontypridd under their umbrella?

Take off your regional hat for a moment and have a think.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:33 pm

Many Ponty fans clearly happy about the news which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:37 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

3) does this allow Cardiff RFC and Pontypridd RFC to now be affiliated to a different region?  Could the Dragons/Ospreys now take Pontypridd under their umbrella?

Take off your regional hat for a moment and have a think.

Well I didn't want to say does this mean the Bkues are now truly just a club, and as such can be relegated and replaced by ponty if they don't improve in the pro12 (on of the things I think could bite them in the rear)
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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:39 pm

Griff wrote:When will they officially become 'Glamorgan Blues'? I'm fed up of waiting. Sad

You're in for a long wait, if that's the case.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 7:51 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

3) does this allow Cardiff RFC and Pontypridd RFC to now be affiliated to a different region?  Could the Dragons/Ospreys now take Pontypridd under their umbrella?

Take off your regional hat for a moment and have a think.

Well I didn't want to say does this mean the Bkues are now truly just a club, and as such can be relegated and replaced by ponty  if they don't improve in the pro12 (on of the things I think could bite them in the rear)

You what?

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Post by Guest Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:00 pm

Been following Owen Robins too much, SS? Meritocracy aye Shocked

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:01 pm

Dai, if the Blues are moving towards being a club and not a region, then that will open the door for other clubs who are ambitious to challenge the Blues right to being a pro12 side. If the Blues are flying high then that is less likely, but if they are sitting low down in the league who know.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:03 pm

Risca Rev wrote:Been following Owen Robins too much, SS? Meritocracy aye Shocked

I don't agree with it at all. But that type of argument would be far more easy to argue if there were a non-regional side in the pro12 censored
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Post by GavinDragon Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:07 pm

While theoretically that is plausible. Unfortunately the funding they will receive from the WRU and the money freed up b6 NDC means that no other club will ever have enough money to develop the infrastructure or the playing squad to replace them. And that's what most cardiffans refuse to see. That while initially they paid to be standalone. 12 years of central funding under the pretence of regionalism and the comparative lack of funding of any club beneath means that they will forever have a place at the top table without the responsibility of representing a wider geographical area.

In essence it stinks

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:08 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai, if the Blues are moving towards being a club and not a region, then that will open the door for other clubs who are ambitious to challenge the Blues right to being a pro12 side.  If the Blues are flying high then that is less likely, but if they are sitting low down in the league who know.

Cardiff have always been a club. Just like your lot as it happens.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:15 pm

Dai, time will tell if we are really as similar as you think. If we ditch our feeders then I will admit you are right, but if we continue on as we are, then I would suggest you are not right.
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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:24 pm

GavinDragon wrote:While theoretically that is plausible. Unfortunately the funding they will receive from the WRU and the money freed up b6 NDC means that no other club will ever have enough money to develop the infrastructure or the playing squad to replace them. And that's what most cardiffans refuse to see. That while initially they paid to be standalone. 12 years of central funding under the pretence of regionalism and the comparative lack of funding of any club beneath means that they will forever have a place at the top table without the responsibility of representing a wider geographical area.

In essence it stinks

Feckin 'ell!
Where's Phil?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:26 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai, time will tell if we are really as similar as you think.  If we ditch our feeders then I will admit you are right, but if we continue on as we are, then I would suggest you are not right.

?

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:27 pm

Care to challenge David. Just remember before you laud it over any Ponty fan. The difference between Ponty and Cardiff? PETER THOMAS

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 8:33 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Care to challenge David. Just remember before you laud it over any Ponty fan. The difference between Ponty and Cardiff? PETER THOMAS

I don't laud it over any Ponty fan. Challenge what btw?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 9:01 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Care to challenge David. Just remember before you laud it over any Ponty fan. The difference between Ponty and Cardiff? PETER THOMAS

Bit more than that and there'll be another Uncle Pete to take the reins when he goes.

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Post by Guest Thu 12 Nov 2015, 9:20 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:When will they officially become 'Glamorgan Blues'? I'm fed up of waiting. Sad

You're in for a long wait, if that's the case.

Was just taking the wee wee! I'd actually prefer Cardiff Blues/RFC didn't exist at all to be perfectly honest. If only they'd fold Wink But with PT there that is not likely.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Nov 2015, 9:25 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:When will they officially become 'Glamorgan Blues'? I'm fed up of waiting. Sad

You're in for a long wait, if that's the case.

Was just taking the wee wee! I'd actually prefer Cardiff Blues/RFC didn't exist at all to be perfectly honest. If only they'd fold Wink But with PT there that is not likely.

That's nice.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 12 Nov 2015, 9:38 pm

Lovely stuff this. Good on Cardiff for doing it.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu 12 Nov 2015, 9:52 pm

GavinDragon wrote:While theoretically that is plausible. Unfortunately the funding they will receive from the WRU and the money freed up b6 NDC means that no other club will ever have enough money to develop the infrastructure or the playing squad to replace them. And that's what most cardiffans refuse to see. That while initially they paid to be standalone. 12 years of central funding under the pretence of regionalism and the comparative lack of funding of any club beneath means that they will forever have a place at the top table without the responsibility of representing a wider geographical area.

In essence it stinks

Jesus wept. Why does it stink that one team is capable of supporting pro rugby and another isnt?

Your idea of meritocracy just means everyone is equally poopie
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Post by Stone Motif Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:00 pm

Lots of semi-pro standard Blues players out of contract soon apparently. Look out for some ex-Ponty and Cardiff sh1te at a Gwent pro team near you next season.
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Post by Guest Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:03 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Lovely stuff this. Good on Cardiff for doing it.

Should've done it sooner, particularly with all the bitterness that's occurred from the team that represents every valley on the planet. It's win win for everyone, I think. Ponty know where they stand squad wise and can have their support concentrating on ole'ing instead of never be a blue'ing and Cardiff now have a clear direction and don't have to pander to those who aren't interested in them anyway.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:05 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Lovely stuff this. Good on Cardiff for doing it.

Should've done it sooner, particularly with all the bitterness that's occurred from the team that represents every valley on the planet. It's win win for everyone, I think. Ponty know where they stand squad wise and can have their support concentrating on ole'ing instead of never be a blue'ing and Cardiff now have a clear direction and don't have to pander to those who aren't interested in them anyway.

They'll still hate Cardiff with all their might and sing songs about it. They are more soccer than rugby.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:06 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:While theoretically that is plausible. Unfortunately the funding they will receive from the WRU and the money freed up b6 NDC means that no other club will ever have enough money to develop the infrastructure or the playing squad to replace them. And that's what most cardiffans refuse to see. That while initially they paid to be standalone. 12 years of central funding under the pretence of regionalism and the comparative lack of funding of any club beneath means that they will forever have a place at the top table without the responsibility of representing a wider geographical area.

In essence it stinks

Jesus wept. Why does it stink that one team is capable of supporting pro rugby and another isnt?

Your idea of meritocracy just means everyone is equally sh1te.

I think he means that the Blues, whilst being treated as a regional entirety, have been receiving far more cash over the last 12 years than any side in the prem, so even if a prem side did try to step up they would be able to match the Blues spending power.
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Post by VinceWLB Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:06 pm

So how are fringe players going to get game time with this solution?

How does it work out for the other regions, do they have 60 man squads too or only 38-40?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:09 pm

VinceWLB wrote:So how are fringe players going to get game time with this solution?

How does it work out for the other regions, do they have 60 man squads too or only 38-40?

Only around 50 odd

Cardiff have been doing too much for Ponty, too often, for too long. And all they got in return was Ponty fans' bile.

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:So how are fringe players going to get game time with this solution?

How does it work out for the other regions, do they have 60 man squads too or only 38-40?

Only around 50 odd

Cardiff have been doing too much for Ponty, too often, for too long. And all they got in return was Ponty fans' bile.

50 is still quite a lot imo although during the 6N period and in case of injury crisis, all 50 of them are likely to get gametime.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:20 pm

VinceWLB wrote:

50 is still quite a lot imo although during the 6N period and in case of injury crisis, all 50 of them are likely to get gametime.

I have a feeling that number includes a designated amount of players on "development contracts".

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:27 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

I have a feeling that number includes a designated amount of players on "development contracts".

That sounds about right then. Looking at the Blues squad list there is a lot of deadwood and money could be better spent elsewhere.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:37 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

I have a feeling that number includes a designated amount of players on "development contracts".

That sounds about right then. Looking at the Blues squad list there is a lot of deadwood and money could be better spent elsewhere.

Precisely.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu 12 Nov 2015, 10:42 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:While theoretically that is plausible. Unfortunately the funding they will receive from the WRU and the money freed up b6 NDC means that no other club will ever have enough money to develop the infrastructure or the playing squad to replace them. And that's what most cardiffans refuse to see. That while initially they paid to be standalone. 12 years of central funding under the pretence of regionalism and the comparative lack of funding of any club beneath means that they will forever have a place at the top table without the responsibility of representing a wider geographical area.

In essence it stinks

Jesus wept. Why does it stink that one team is capable of supporting pro rugby and another isnt?

Your idea of meritocracy just means everyone is equally sh1te.

I think he means that the Blues, whilst being treated as a regional entirety, have been receiving far more cash over the last 12 years than any side in the prem, so even if a prem side did try to step up they would be able to match the Blues spending power.

That's a nonsense if so. Sounds to me if Dickie Dutch has his sums right that they gift more to Ponty in wages than they get in WRU largesse per annum. The majority of regional funding is privately generated.
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Post by GavinDragon Fri 13 Nov 2015, 5:53 am

Stone you say one team can afford it, and you are right but the only reason cardiff were and are able to afford it is because in 03 and since they have had the pie man backing them. People come on here and say that there is a sense of entitlement among certain ponty fans and maybe there is. But as I said cardiff fans should remember the real reason why their team has prevailed.

I really hope ponty make an attempt to join the English pyramid at a lower level

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Post by munkian Fri 13 Nov 2015, 7:51 am

I may be wrong on this one but didnt Ponty have a chance at pro rugby and balls it up spectacularly?
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Post by GavinDragon Fri 13 Nov 2015, 8:15 am

Yes they did. Or to be more precise their owner couldn't afford to keep them going.

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Post by munkian Fri 13 Nov 2015, 8:47 am

GavinDragon wrote:Yes they did. Or to be more precise their owner couldn't afford to keep them going.

So they wanted it but didn't want to pay for it ? Eerily familiar to this news then.
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Post by LordDowlais Fri 13 Nov 2015, 8:47 am

He was the Bridgend owner, not the Pontypridd owner. OK

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