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World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 4 (was Day2 and Day3!)

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Post by laverfan Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:38 am

First topic message reminder :

The ATP website seems to have evolved and become AI-enabled and may not show the correct day when you click on the link, so here are a variety of links

PDF version - PDF version
Day 4 link - Day 4 link (may work)
Live Scores on the ATP Web Site - ATP Live Scores
Barclays Live Scores - Barclays Live Scores


MotD - Murray v Nadal.


Last edited by laverfan on Wed 18 Nov 2015, 12:02 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Post by Haddie-nuff Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:15 pm

My money is on Daveed... Stan looks agitated and mentally not in the place he was when he won the FO.. Daveed has a way of really
rattling his opponent and will fight to the bitter end. He is still moving very well for his years and he will take Stan to the line I think

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:23 pm

Stan can't have 2 bad matches, he will skin ferret.
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Post by Henman Bill Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:25 pm

Well done Rafa. Murray's focused on the Davis Cup, his win over Ferrer ensures respectability and that he isn't taking the p1ss, and now he can exit respectably either against Stan or in the semi. If he loses the first set against Stan, I expect a set two tank.

Now, Rafa...a while ago people were talking about him as barely deserving to round out the top ten and you would have been laughed off the forum for suggesting he won this year's event. HIs form, Federer's age, Murray's focus, the arguably slightly slower court, and the lack of barnstorming performances from the 6-8 players are all working in his favour, but the problem is still Djokovic.

At the moment smart money says Novak to beat Rafa in the semi. Novak to beat Rog in the final.

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:28 pm

HB, drop this pro-Djoko to win on every post.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:30 pm

Oh and Laver fan I meant that Djokovic was below par against Federer, not his form in general.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:31 pm

Jahu wrote:HB, drop this pro-Djoko to win on every post.


Are you being serious?

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:38 pm

Henman Bill wrote:
Jahu wrote:HB, drop this pro-Djoko to win on every post.


Are you being serious?

As much as you are serious about saying on every post that Djoko will win?

What's the point?

Stop pushing Djoko down our throat constantly.
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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:39 pm

laverfan wrote:Just p1$$3d at Murray's lack of application.

I agree with LKv2, to have a DC-like World Group/Qualifying setup for WTF and let the better performers fight the consistent performers for places in SF/F.

clap I am glad you see it similar to me. Let's go convince the others. Wink

I am in now way saying all the performers at the event are "lacking" but it needs some stimulation/motivation.

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:42 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote: stimulation/motivation.

Teach me? Laugh
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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:46 pm

Jahu wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote: stimulation/motivation.

Teach me? Laugh

Hands at the ready? Laugh

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:48 pm

Don't start me, had 1 ban this week already Laugh
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Post by Henman Bill Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:50 pm

Sorry Jahu, but your post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

---Wrong that I made an excessive amount of posts about Djokovic to win. Probably about three out of the last 20 posts.
---You make more anti-Djokovic posts than I make pro-Djokovic posts. How is one worse than the other.
---There is nothing wrong with being pro- or anti- something in itself, you shouldn't be calling someone out for it.
---My pro-Djokovic posts are polite, measured statements like "favourite to win" which is probably even factually accurate. Yours are football hooligan statements like "throw a chair" at him or "crush" him. What passes as casual banter to you is actually going to make his fans feel uncomfortable and is constant and childish.

Why do you hate Djokovic anyway. He's just a tennis player. Who cares. Let it go.

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 5:54 pm

HB, thanks for replying to me in such an eloquent way. I appreciate the attention Smile

So let it go then, don't give me reasons to have a go on Djoko while you fuel my go at Djoko, and then complain that I have a go on Djoko Laugh (does this make sense?).

Hi 5 now Smile
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Post by socal1976 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:19 pm

Great performance by Fed in particular on the serve and Novak just was very poor all around. He played well the first few games but he never bossed the rallies or the match like he has in a number of recent meetings. To me his FH wasn't firing and Federer was serving big. It is always going to be close when Fed serves big but this match wasn't particularly close because both Fed's serving and Novak being pretty ineffectual with FH. For the most part he only felt comfortable hitting rally balls with it today. We didn't see those flat ones up the line or the wicked angles cross court.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:24 pm

Eventhough Novak didn't win I am glad that Fedal are doing well. I never wanted their demise and know that for the game to command the interest it needs it is much better if those two are playing well. I have been saying it for some months now that Nadal is playing pretty well on a surface, indoor hardcourt that is his worst surface. I can see him making a real push come the slow hardcourts and clay courts of early next year.

As for Roger, maybe I have softened on the old guy but he has been pretty exemplary and having beaten Novak three times in his best year shows what kind of talent he really is. I think Novak is hurt by the fact that Federer's style is so different than everyone else's. He is not used to seeing this style of play as Fed plays a neoclassical brand of tennis while Novak's game is geared at dominating the modern style of play. Federer rushes him, changes spins and slices, comes into the net, and has great disguise and variety on serve. I am sure Fed's slice particularly to Novak's FH is not an easy ball to handle with Novak's heavy western grip, although when he is playing well he sometimes makes it look easy to handle.


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Post by CAS Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:27 pm

Federer didn't even really celebrate, he was very aware Novak wasn't on it and it was just a round robin, he had this say to:

“To me, Novak is still the favorite of the tournament,” Federer explained. “He should make his way to the semis somehow. And he'll be the favourite in that probably, too, with the year he's had. He's far from gone. The way I know Novak, he's going to find a way to be tougher to beat from now on.”

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:48 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Sorry Jahu, but your post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

---Wrong that I made an excessive amount of posts about Djokovic to win. Probably about three out of the last 20 posts.
---You make more anti-Djokovic posts than I make pro-Djokovic posts. How is one worse than the other.
---There is nothing wrong with being pro- or anti- something in itself, you shouldn't be calling someone out for it.
---My pro-Djokovic posts are polite, measured statements like "favourite to win" which is probably even factually accurate. Yours are football hooligan statements like "throw a chair" at him or "crush" him. What passes as casual banter to you is actually going to make his fans feel uncomfortable and is constant and childish.

Why do you hate Djokovic anyway. He's just a tennis player. Who cares. Let it go.
Completely with you hb here. You can post what you like if you dont hurt anyone. No way are you excessively pro novak. Its the same the other way around

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:56 pm

tempo, you being a totally anti-Fed and proven, how can your post be fair?

behave yourself now and don't get into supporting any side here.

I made peace on my comment with HB, so your support for HB is totally irrelevant.
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Post by bogbrush Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:31 pm

Wawrinka straight into the bad attitude. He should have let someone else have his place.
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Post by bogbrush Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:32 pm

temporary21 wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Sorry Jahu, but your post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

---Wrong that I made an excessive amount of posts about Djokovic to win. Probably about three out of the last 20 posts.
---You make more anti-Djokovic posts than I make pro-Djokovic posts. How is one worse than the other.
---There is nothing wrong with being pro- or anti- something in itself, you shouldn't be calling someone out for it.
---My pro-Djokovic posts are polite, measured statements like "favourite to win" which is probably even factually accurate. Yours are football hooligan statements like "throw a chair" at him or "crush" him. What passes as casual banter to you is actually going to make his fans feel uncomfortable and is constant and childish.

Why do you hate Djokovic anyway. He's just a tennis player. Who cares. Let it go.
Completely with you hb here. You can post what you like if you dont hurt anyone. No way are you excessively pro novak. Its the same the other way around
We know he can, he knows he can.

Thanks.
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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:36 pm

Glad to see Stan being consistently lacklustre!

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Post by CAS Wed 18 Nov 2015, 8:59 pm

He's woken up a bit for the good of the paying crowd

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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:04 pm

Ferrer reminds me of the kid who would ride his BMX and make motorbike noises! The impression of would be power.

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Post by LuvSports! Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:37 pm

Stan swatting aside Ferret!
When he's in this form there is nothing Ferrer can do - outplayed.

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:47 pm

Itll be a shoot out between Stan and Andy then if he gets this game done.
Dont really know who Id want to go through, Andy gets no 2 but might be done for dc, or stan goes and we get a Federinka rematch

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 9:49 pm

Dont get personal like that Jahu, simple as that mate. you clearly p$ssed hb off, we wont have it...

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:00 pm

tempo, act like a mod (sic). Ever seen JHM or LF take sides between 2 people here? Nope, they either warn or ban, no chitty-chat girly style taking sides, but boooom, 1 or 2 go down in flames.

Why would I care who gets p1ssed off here? what is this, kindergarten?

Since when is Djoko a "personal" thing?

Stop acting like a teacher, no one complained picard

Go out, get a date, whatever, get off my back, I got enough JHM to look over my shoulder Laugh.

Thx.
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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:14 pm

mo1 You guys are crazy

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:19 pm

Rolling Eyes
The world doesnt revolve around you, this whole "you cant talk to me because you support x$ is a bad place to go. I see tension from users, I try to fix it, thats all Im asked to do. So dont do that eh Hug

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Post by Jahu Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:26 pm

tempo, are you doing a whole HMM pigtails thingy with me?

State your ASL and we can chat? Laugh

And of course I want people to talk about others that they support, how else can I have a go on it? Smile

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Post by laverfan Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:37 pm

CAS wrote:Federer didn't even really celebrate, he was very aware Novak wasn't on it and it was just a round robin, he had this say to:

“To me, Novak is still the favorite of the tournament,” Federer explained. “He should make his way to the semis somehow. And he'll be the favourite in that probably, too, with the year he's had. He's far from gone. The way I know Novak, he's going to find a way to be tougher to beat from now on.

Federer is quite right. Nadal on the slower HC is doing pretty well. If Djokovic falters even a bit from now on, Nadal is very likely to get to the final, and who knows, if he gets his teeth on the trophy.

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:39 pm

Be one heck of a result if its THIS year of all things he won the wtf...

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Post by laverfan Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:46 pm

Born Slippy wrote:So, permutations in the Fed/Novak group are:

- Fed is through regardless;
- Fed wins the group unless he loses to Kei and Novak loses to Berdych

- Novak is through if he beats Berdych;
- Novak is also through if he loses to Berdych in 3 sets and Kei also loses;
- Novak can't top the group due to Fed h2h

- Kei is through if he beats Fed and Novak loses to Berdy - Kei will then top the group due to h2h versus Fed;
- Kei is out if he loses or if Novak beats Berdych.

- Berdych is through in 2nd if he beats Novak in straight sets and Kei loses;
- Any other scenario and Berdych goes out.

Based on these, Federer v Nishikori is scheduled first.

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Post by Guest Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:47 pm

temporary21 wrote:Be one heck of a result if its THIS year of all things he won the wtf...
If Nadal does win this it will be a huge statement for his intentions next year. But I don't think he will get past Djokovic. With these matches it is very much a man on man look them in the eyes battle.

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:49 pm

Though all three are on the cards there doesn't feel like theres much tension as only one is really anyway likely. Novak might have been a little poor last match but Berdy is hardly putting in a stellar run either, no way Novak doesnt take a set, and I cant see Kei doing the biz against Roger, especially if hes first upand he wont know if he has a shot

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 10:53 pm

I mean... I SUPPOSE fed could in theory throw it, opening up the chance he finishes 2nd and avoids a nasty Rafa match for a much more favourable at the moment Muzz or Stan match, AND possibly knock out Novak.
Hes too professional to, but the irony would be that setup gives him his best tout at winning

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Post by summerblues Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:00 pm

Nadal beating Andy will have increased overall humankind happiness:

Rafa will be happy because he is back in business against top guys,
Andy will be happy because he will avoid Novak in SF,
Roger will be happy because he will avoid Rafa in SF, and
Novak will not care because he will likely trounce whoever he plays anyway.

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:01 pm

I got that wrong. Fed 2nd means Nadal. It would maybe put novak out though

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Post by It Must Be Love Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:08 pm

summerblues wrote:Nadal beating Andy will have increased overall humankind happiness:

Rafa will be happy because he is back in business against top guys,
Andy will be happy because he will avoid Novak in SF,
Roger will be happy because he will avoid Rafa in SF, and
Novak will not care because he will likely trounce whoever he plays anyway.
Joyous day today, isn't it ?

FEDAL fans have had a nice week so far. (The weekend may not be quite so pleasant for us SB)

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Post by temporary21 Wed 18 Nov 2015, 11:09 pm

Its nice to see Nadal playing well again really. We could do with more form players right now.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Thu 19 Nov 2015, 12:31 am

Nadals dismissal at the Grand Slam of Basel by his superior has possibly given him the kick to up his game OK

Or has Stan and Andy just got other things on their minds, thus making Nadal look better than he is?

Guess we'll know by Friday/Saturday.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 19 Nov 2015, 4:47 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Nadals dismissal at the Grand Slam of Basel by his superior has possibly given him the kick to up his game OK

Or has Stan and Andy just got other things on their minds, thus making Nadal look better than he is?

Guess we'll know by Friday/Saturday.

Predictable but a not unexpected analysis of where Rafa's  game is right now.. Yes Rafa you lucky son of a bitch Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:28 am

There's nothing wrong with a bit luck. I think we'd all accept some at some point in our lives.

Would you not think with where Rafa is with his game right now that catching a few players cold is a good thing? I certainly do.

I don't take issue with it at all. This run could lead him onto better things Smile

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:42 am

It was Sampras who said that you don't win a slam without a bit of luck. Of course, if anyone were to suggest that our favourite player had a bit of luck winning a slam, we'd all go ballistic.

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Post by HM Murdock Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:43 am

I'm increasingly getting the feeling that Nadal might go all the way here.

It will hinge on the probable SF against Novak.

Before the tournament, I'd have made Novak the strong favourite in that match up but it feels much closer now.

Rafa is playing well and I thought Novak showed a worrying lack of big match temperament against Federer. I would no longer be surprised if Nadal won.

And, if he's in the final against Federer, Stan or Andy, I think he wins. He's playing better than Stan and Andy, and he's still a stylistic nightmare for Federer.

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Post by Guest Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:45 am

This is the response to such suggestions on luck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxzTTvXDzNU

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Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:49 am

HM Murdock wrote:I'm increasingly getting the feeling that Nadal might go all the way here.

It will hinge on the probable SF against Novak.

Before the tournament, I'd have made Novak the strong favourite in that match up but it feels much closer now.

Rafa is playing well and I thought Novak showed a worrying lack of big match temperament against Federer. I would no longer be surprised if Nadal won.

And, if he's in the final against Federer, Stan or Andy, I think he wins. He's playing better than Stan and Andy, and he's still a stylistic nightmare for Federer.

Absolutely Im sick of hearing ever since his win against Rosol, who choked, Gasquet choked, Wawrinka sub par and Andy.
No it wasn't luck.. Rafa has upped his game and his new found determination shows.. whether he has upped it enough to take on the other two remains to be seen.. but give the man some credit for beating the others with superior play

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Post by Guest Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:50 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:It was Sampras who said that you don't win a slam without a bit of luck. Of course, if anyone were to suggest that our favourite player had a bit of luck winning a slam, we'd all go ballistic.

Imagine Henman with a Wimbledon Roof in 2001! broken would've become Yahoo

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Post by kingraf Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:51 am

The idea that the only reason Nadal took out Murray and Wawrinka for the loss of 10 games is because he was lucky and they were apathetic is amusing, but not surprising on a forum which has previously tried to suggest the reason rafa was struggling was because he stopped doping or because he was being rushed (because apparently the difference between thrashing Fognini and losing from two sets up is about five seconds).
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Post by HM Murdock Thu 19 Nov 2015, 8:53 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I'm increasingly getting the feeling that Nadal might go all the way here.

It will hinge on the probable SF against Novak.

Before the tournament, I'd have made Novak the strong favourite in that match up but it feels much closer now.

Rafa is playing well and I thought Novak showed a worrying lack of big match temperament against Federer. I would no longer be surprised if Nadal won.

And, if he's in the final against Federer, Stan or Andy, I think he wins. He's playing better than Stan and Andy, and he's still a stylistic nightmare for Federer.

Absolutely Im sick of hearing ever since his win against Rosol, who choked, Gasquet choked, Wawrinka sub par and Andy.
No it wasn't luck.. Rafa has upped his game and his new found determination shows.. whether he has upped it enough to take on the other two remains to be seen.. but give the man some credit for beating the others with superior play
You've either clicked reply on the wrong comment or you've completely misunderstood what I wrote.

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