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Champions Cup Pool 3: Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints, 21 November

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Post by George Carlin Mon 16 Nov 2015, 6:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Champions Cup Pool 3: Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints, 21 November - Page 4 Glasgo10                  Champions Cup Pool 3: Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints, 21 November - Page 4 Saints10                 
Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints
Saturday 21 November 2015
KO: 17:15
Scotstoun, Glasgow

Live on Sky Sports / beIN Sports

Referee Pascal Gauzere (France)
Touch Judge 1 Maxime Chalon (France)
Touch Judge 2 Jean-Luc Rebollal (France)
Fourth Official Stephen Ward (Scotland)
TMO Gilles Cogne (France)

A. Head to Head

6 Played 6
2 Wins 4
4 Losses 2
0 Draws 0
114 Points 147

B. Recent Form

19 January 2013
Glasgow 27 - 20 Northampton

14 October 2012
Northampton 24 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

C. Teams

Glasgow Warriors
Champions Cup Pool 3: Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints, 21 November - Page 4 Marian10
15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Peter Horne
11 Sean Lamont
10 Finn Russell
09 Mike Blair

01 Ryan Grant
02 Pat MacArthur
03 Sila Puafisi
04 Leone Nakarawa
05 Jonny Gray (capt)
06 Robert Harley
07 Simone Favaro
08 Josh Strauss

16 Shalva Mamukashvili
17 Gordon Reid
18 Zander Fagerson
19 Tim Swinson
20 Ryan Wilson
21 Grayson Hart
22 Richie Vernon
23 Taqele Naiyaravoro

Northampton Saints
Champions Cup Pool 3: Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints, 21 November - Page 4 Louise10
15 Ben Foden
14 Ah See Tuala
13 George Pisi
12 Luther Burrell
11 George North
10 Steve Myler
09 Lee Dickson (capt)

01 Alex Waller
02 Mikey Haywood
03 Kieran Brookes
04 Michael Paterson
05 Christian Day
06 Jamie Gibson
07 Tom Wood
08 Sam Dickinson

16 Matti Williams
17 Ethan Waller
18 Paul Hill
19 Jonathan Fisher
20 Teimana Harrison
21 Kahn Fotuali'i
22 JJ Hanrahan
23 Jamie Elliott


Last edited by George Carlin on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 2:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by RDW Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:29 pm

Toony needs to accept some blame for this - he picked the two weakest scummaging props against a strong scrummaging team. It was the same team as last week so I dread to think what would have happened against Racing.

Grant's fall from grace is very sad - he's apparently one of the highest paid players having negotiated a big deal after the Lions tour. I can't see him being much in demand when his deal runs out in the summer.

With Racing comfortably beating Scarlets I fear that Glasgow will have to settle for at best a double over the Scarlets, and even that won't come easy.

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Post by RDW Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:41 pm

How bad did the McArthur injury look?

We could give you James Hilterbrand, or are you not quite that desperate yet?

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:47 pm

Don't laugh so hard after a couple of season training with Edinburgh Hilterbrand would probably improve the Glasgow front row Laugh

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Post by Cyril Sun 22 Nov 2015, 4:03 am

AP sides are generally tearing a new one for Pro 12 outfits this season. Good result Saints Smile

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Post by George Carlin Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:33 am

Cyril wrote:AP sides are generally tearing a new one for Pro 12 outfits this season. Good result Saints Smile
True dat. Hopefully it's a wake up call to a Glasgow side that really is better than that.

Interestingly, Scarlets were dominating both territory and possession in the first half against Racing but got hit with sucker punches time and time again.

I don't think that we're completely done in this tournament yet, but with those front row problems it's very hard to see where our platform is going to come from.
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Post by The Great Aukster Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:56 am

The AP (and T14) sides are far less affected by the RWC, because they haven't been missing players. For a lot of Pro12 sides these games are almost the equivalent of pre-season.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:15 am

The Great Aukster wrote:The AP (and T14) sides are far less affected by the RWC, because they haven't been missing players. For a lot of Pro12 sides these games are almost the equivalent of pre-season.

I think this is a good point and overlooked by some but if you look at Zebre they missed 15+ players to the world cup but are now on a 3 matches winning streak at home.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:29 am

Glasgow picked up the wrong Gloucester tighthead, Dragons fans will tell you Shaun Knight has done well for them so far this season.

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Post by RDW Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:47 am

Just watched the highlights and Hogg had a complete mare - maybe he shouldn't have played 3 days after having a baby!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:55 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:John Welsh would be a much better option too but he was let go.

To think what Glasgow could achieve if they had Edinburgh's front row!

Jon Welsh has been great for us at TH. We gave the Saints a bit of a hammering in the scrum a few weeks back with him and Lawson in the front row.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:John Welsh would be a much better option too but he was let go.

To think what Glasgow could achieve if they had Edinburgh's front row!

Jon Welsh has been great for us at TH. We gave the Saints a bit of a hammering in the scrum a few weeks back with him and Lawson in the front row.

Hope Townsend and whoever is responsible of the recruitment at Glasgow was watching..

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Post by BigGee Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just watched the highlights and Hogg had a complete mare - maybe he shouldn't have played 3 days after having a baby!

Agree with that, he did not have a good game. In hindsight, quite a few things wrong his week. Give him next week off and hopefully he comes back with something to prove.

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Post by RDW Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:07 am

Letting Welsh go was completely unfathomable to me - he's not a world class 3 but he's a perfectly good player at club level. He's also the heart and soul of the squad and you could tell how much he loved the club. He looked completely gutted to be leaving last year.

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Post by RDW Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:15 am

Going to be interesting to see how Glasgow approach Treviso at home next week. They desperately need to find some form and pick up momentum but this will be the best chance to rest key players for quite a while.

Last week's game being called off really has disrupted Glasgow. I suspect if they had played with that team the same thing would have happened, and Townsend would have learnt from his mistakes and would have made changes for the Saints game. I'm not saying they would have won, but things might have been closer. Much better to learn your lesson away to a top team than at home to one you really needed to beat.

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Post by BigGee Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:18 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Letting Welsh go was completely unfathomable to me - he's not a world class 3 but he's a perfectly good player at club level. He's also the heart and soul of the squad and you could tell how much he loved the club. He looked completely gutted to be leaving last year.

Leaving your home club as a long standing player is always going to be to hard, but I really do think he wanted to go. He was a need of a new challenge and the chance to nail down a starting spot, it will probably make him a much better player. Hind sight is a great virtue, but when these decisions were made in the middle of last season, the landscape for THs at Glasgow looked very different. De Klerk was growing in stature, Cussack looked like he was on the way back and Fargerson looked like the next man in line. That all changed way after he had signed the contract.

Moving is often the best thing for the player if not the club. Jackson seems to be benefitting, even Moray Low is showing somes signs of promise down in the South West. Geoff Cross is the one who has not made much progress, I suspect because he was never really good enough, he can't even make the LI bench. I suspect he will be reviving his medical career at the end of the season.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 22 Nov 2015, 12:01 pm

Cusack played in the midweek A game against the Chihuahua fanciers - Peterson played too.

Hope to god that both of them are up to speed now becuase we need both pretty badly.

Whilst I agree that the cancelled game probably threw us off, I don't want to make any excuses - we just were not good enough and a lot of players need to take a look at themselves and issue a swift, self kick in the crackers.
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Post by BigGee Sun 22 Nov 2015, 1:51 pm

I can see us resting quite a few front line players for the Treviso game and then getting back to near front line for the Leinster game to follow. With the extra Europe game to fit in now, the Dec/Jan fixture list is becoming scary and squad rotation is going to be vital.

A few more players (especially in the front row) need to put their hands up. Hooker is going to be a massive issue if McArthur is now out as well. I kmnow it was his first game, but the Georgian was less than inspiring and we now may have no cover at all.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 22 Nov 2015, 1:59 pm

Surely Glasgow should get George Turner on loan or someone else?

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Post by BigGee Sun 22 Nov 2015, 2:03 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Surely Glasgow should get George Turner on loan or someone else?

That may be an option. I guess Malcolm can cover some of the league games as well, but is he up to Euro games, is he even in the squad? How does it work bringing new players into the euro squad at this stage, are we even allowed to?

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Post by RDW Sun 22 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

That would leave Edinburgh with Hilterbrand on the bench in the 6N - you can have him instead!

Turner is in desperate need of game time though - he's been on the books a while now and has more game time for Edinburgh in other positions (wing, beck row, loosehead) than at hooker!

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Post by BigGee Sun 22 Nov 2015, 2:33 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:That would leave Edinburgh with Hilterbrand on the bench in the 6N - you can have him instead!

Turner is in desperate need of game time though - he's been on the books a while now and has more game time for Edinburgh in other positions (wing, beck row, loosehead) than at hooker!

Never mind the 6N, we have got next week to worry about!

I think Frazer Brown will be back by then and hopefully McArthur, it is Byrne who will be out for the rest of the season.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:17 pm

I was moderatly pleased how Saints played. Some numbskull decisions and some hyper-active inaccurate play, but certainly an improvement from the last few weeks. The team is certainly better with Myler in the pivot compared to Hanrahan, at least right now. But Hanrahan is there to give Myler some rest at 10, not replace him, and also to provide a different attacking option at 12. Hopefully Mallinder has a good plan for him.

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Post by RDW Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:19 am

Toony admitted in the Metro this morning that Hogg probably shouldn't have played - bad call to play him 3 days after having his first child.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:42 am

Until we have a scrum - we will never get out the group

last year we lost against Bath in the second game  - 100% because of our scrum - they just milked penalty and penalty - and played no real rugby - but it got them the win

It does go towards my ongoing thought that the Scrum is an over powered force in deciding matches - especially in the NH - and I think the WC proved that we have it wrong to rely on milking penalties rather than skill

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Post by VinceWLB Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:50 am

Agreed Risky, you don't get a dominant scrum like that at international level. You have to actually play rugby to win matches, not use an outdated gameplan.

But this is 100% Glasgow faults for not getting the right players in the pack, still fuming over the signing of Puafisi and to a lesser extent the constant selection of Grant. He has looked done for over a couple of season now but is apparently one of the biggest earner at the club, must be a contender for LVP.


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Post by RDW Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:51 am

VinceWLB wrote:Agreed Risky, you don't get a dominant scrum like that at international level. You have to actually play rugby to win matches, not use an outdated gameplan.


Can someone tell Solomons that??

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 23 Nov 2015, 9:55 am

I had a TV recording failure this weekend so haven't seen any of this one. Both surprised and disappointed that Glasgow didn't at least get a losing bonus point from a home game. Scottish rugby could really use some exposure to knock-out European rugby. I fear Glasgow's front row shortcomings are going to cost them.

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Post by sensisball Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

As much as there have been personnel changes and injuries in the front row, for me, the elephant in the room is Toonie's decision to axe Shade Munro as forwards coach.
The set piece has looked shaky with a new hooker and experience leaving from 2 and 3, but the overall open play of the forwards hasn't been anywhere as effective as the last few seasons.

Maybe it will improve once they are knocked out of Europe and can  concentrate on the Pro12 but I remain to be convinced.

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Post by TJ Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:02 am

It wasn't just the pack tho - too many mistakes / turnovers conceding far too much territory. Look at the stats - Saints did not have to do a lot to win

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Post by sensisball Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:28 am

I agree it was an error strewn affair, but for all the flair that Glasgow have displayed over the last 2 seasons, their victories have been built up font and I am not seeing anything like the same effectiveness and cohesion from the current set up.
Leaving aside the scrum and lineouts ( which admittedly are the main reasons they lost!) the packs breakdown work and support play is way below the levels displayed last season.

Undoubtedly there is a bit of world cup hangover but I don't think that is the total reason for their poor displays.

it will be interesting to see how Toonie responds to any critics of the Munro decision. Although, given the supine nature of most Scottish rugby interviewers its not very likely to be causing Toonie many sleepless nights!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:29 am

I do think Glasgow will be a different proposition once Cusack, Brown and Reid return to duty. For all the struggles they had at the weekend, it was still a 2nd choice front row at best. Whilst Edinburgh's front row may well be the mut's nuts, if you look at our second choice offering (Andress, McInally and Sutherland) I suspect they also would have looked shaky against that Saints pack.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:32 am

sensisball wrote:it will be interesting to see how Toonie responds to any critics of the Munro decision. Although, given the supine nature of most Scottish rugby interviewers its not very likely to be causing Toonie many sleepless nights!

That's harsh. I'm sure Jeremy "look into my eyes" Bone will be asking Toonie all the tough questions:

1. Do you like Christmas?
2. What are you hoping for this year?
3. What's your favourite colour?

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

I have just calmed down enough to post on here or I thought that I might be invited for another spell as a 606 voyeur !

That was the worst display at Scotstoun ever by the GWs. Hogg -awful (some mitigating factors here tbh);
Lamont - as bad as Hogg;
Russell - see Hogg and Lamont.
Then we get to forwards - Grant - finished by the looks of it;
New Georgian hooker - flung it at the deepend after 5 mins but his throwing was woeful,
Puafisi - rubbish;
Gray - line out on his call was desperately poor and I didn't get the impression there was strong captaincy a la AK on show;
Nakarawa - tried and eventually got a try via Russell and Strauss but he looks exhausted;
Harley- kept going as you would expect from him - gets pass marks
Favaro- totally anonymous - bring back Chris Fusaro asap
Strauss - nothing in 1st 40 sparked into life in 2nd - our best forward -just !

Felt for Mike Blair and I suppose to a degree for Finn Russell playing behind that scrum. Pete Horne our best back despite the roughing up he got.

Overall a depressing mess and expect big changes (via the Toonie tombola) for Friday.
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Post by Eejit Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:18 pm

Agree with you almost entirely Schiz. I feel sorry for Big Georgian hooker, he certainly got flung in at the deep-end and really mucked up that throw. Thought he hooked well enough and hope to see more of him over the next few weeks.

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Post by RDW Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:37 pm

Eejit wrote:hope to see more of him over the next few weeks.

Given that he is the only fit hooker left, I'm sure you will!

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Post by jimbopip Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:51 pm

I think we can cut Hogg some slack, Murchie and Bryce are both injured so either he played or Tennessee tan went to full back and I'm not sure big T or Junior are up to speed enough for 80 minutes of European Cup rugby.
However, I do hope that the pack got the beasting of their lives at training this morning.

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