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Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

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Post by yappysnap Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:24 am

So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.

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Post by nathan Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:31 am

yappysnap wrote:So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.
 6N is too soon to judge him, have to give him a year in the job at least. Hopefully our forwards will enjoy a bit of turkey over Christmas and put a bit of weight on.

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Post by eirebilly Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:37 am

I think that its a very good appointment for England myself. Eddie doesn't suffer fools and he has some very good pedigree. Can imagine that Andy Farrell is already madly looking for a new job as Jones wont have him in his setup.

Can see England performing well under him, he will get the forwards rolling and the backline running as well as it was under Lancaster. Happy times ahead for England fans I feel.
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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:57 am

£100k for his release is buggar all.
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Post by gregortree Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:02 am

Prior to RWC it seemed England could and had beaten every team in recent years apart from RSA.
What Eddie did with Japan hopefully is now a positive augery for England Rugby.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:04 am

Eddie will be all right.  Not sure he is the best choice, but maybe there isn't a clear and perfect choice.  He does have a bit of that feck all attitude which England does need.  And he is a good Rugby man.  

Perhaps I am underwhelmed because it always seemed the RFU were leaning in his direction or towards former Saints coach Wayne Smith.  Almost as if they simply selected the opposite of Lancaster, who had no International or Premiership head coaching experience, and made the politically correct and politically safe appointment.    I would have preferred home grown talent.  Australia picked Cheika who had no international experience and he didn't do too badly.  

I should put that aside and go back to my original comment that Eddie should be fine.  And his news conferences should be more entertaining than Lancaster's.  It is just that it is missing something for me.  

By the way, if he brings in Borthwick, will everyone have to rough up their nose for the season?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:22 am

Well as I said on the other thread...its done now so lets get behind him. He has a good pedigree at international level.

He doesn't tend to go for the huge pack...BUT he still has a competitive pack.

He will hopefully also sort out the breakdown!

I hope he includes some young English coaches, unlikely but that would be nice so theres an English alternative at the end of his tenure.

I see the kiwis etc have started already...he likes coaching tier 2 sides Rolling Eyes

Well lets hope this tier 2 side will be smashing them off the park...

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Post by englandglory4ever Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:25 am

If he's as good as I hope he is then I'd expect England to start winning again very quickly. I just hope he doesn't get ground down by luddite rfu, media and "supporters". Otherwise he'll be off quicker than Sam Burgess. Thinking about it. The British media will slaughter him. Bad luck Eddie hang tough because its gonna get rough.

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Post by Student-A1 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:28 am

I think this is just the appointment that England needed and do have faith the Eddie will put the right team in place. Woodward makes some a few points I agree with in his Mail article however, one being about the Director of Rugby. If they do go for one then it does seem crazy that they go for a Direcor of Rugby after the Coach and then say the Coach will report to him. But I suppse if anyone is waiting for sense with the RFU then it will be a long wait.

Will look forward to hearing Eddies plans now, does anyone know of any press conference being planned?? Questions would be asked about back up staff if there is.

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Post by eirebilly Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:28 am

GeordieFalcon,

Eddie has gone for big packs in the past but what he is good at is getting packs working well. England have the players that can form a very solid and attacking pack.

The biggest thing Eddie brings, in my mind, is exactly what you want, develop excellent breakdown tactics.

To me, he is perfect for the England job and will take you far.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:30 am

I don't think anyone can really doubt his credentials. Bar the teacher thing.

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Post by Student-A1 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:34 am

One point I keep reading is getting in English support staff and someone to learn off him. Now this in an ideal world would be great but would the names that are being mentioned (Baxter, Mallinder etc..) want to give up being a head coach at clubs playing elite european rugby to be an assistant coach?? I don't know. Names like Borthwick, Gustard and Edwards are different as performing different roles right now.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:36 am

Let him get his own men, whoever he wants. Why tie his hands?

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Post by Student-A1 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:37 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let him get his own men, whoever he wants. Why tie his hands?

Agree largely with that

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Post by nathan Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:39 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let him get his own men, whoever he wants. Why tie his hands?

succession planning

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:42 am

But it's pointless nathan. So much can change, so many variables. Pick the best guys, or at least who Jones' thinks are the best guys for each job. When Jones goes pick the best guy again. A great number 2 doesn't always make the best head coach. The next best coach might make an awful forwards coach. Forget that altogether.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:42 am

nathan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Let him get his own men, whoever he wants. Why tie his hands?

succession planning
..........is important too.

Eddie is no dummy. He knows he needs to pick mostly, but not exclusively, English assistants.

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Post by nathan Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:45 am

doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Let him get his own men, whoever he wants. Why tie his hands?

succession planning
..........is important too.  

Eddie is no dummy.  He knows he needs to pick mostly, but not exclusively, English assistants.

english assistants and try to get wayne smith on board for a part time role to mentor them?

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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:59 am

I thought Wayne Smith had gone on record saying he wouldn't coach a Tier 1 team that could challenge the All Blacks. Could be wrong.
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Post by doctor_grey Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:11 am

Wayne Smith as a mentor for a few seasons would be fantastic.  Not sure about his comments regarding All Blacks.  I thought he said he wants time off.

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Post by offload Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:14 am

Jones will challenge the RFU big time, not sure the conservtives in charge are ready for him. He may be the right man, but I doubt he'll make it to the next WC.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:26 am

Great decision by the RFU. Finally they have appointed an experienced coach with a proven track record at the highest level. England will once again become a force to be reckoned with under Jones, mark my words.

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Post by chewed_mintie Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:33 am

doctor_grey wrote:Wayne Smith as a mentor for a few seasons would be fantastic.  Not sure about his comments regarding All Blacks.  I thought he said he wants time off.

Smith is taking time off to travel. Also acknowledged that although money can talk, has come to realise it isn't the be-all and end-all. Simply put, you're not going to get him....

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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:39 am

doctor_grey wrote:Wayne Smith as a mentor for a few seasons would be fantastic.  Not sure about his comments regarding All Blacks.  I thought he said he wants time off.

In 2012 doctor_grey.

It was one of his reasons for turning down Lancaster.

I could imagine Smith working with a humble guy like Lancaster but not a gobby guy like Jones. It would be a bit odd for a twice RWC winner from NZ helping an Australian win games for England you'd have to admit. Smith strikes me as someone who has higher priorities than making as much money as possible in life. Could be wrong.
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Post by George Carlin Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:50 am

A good appointment - Eddie-san has been around the houses and if the RFU think that they will be able to direct him, they have another thing coming.

I am also very pleased for the sake of England rugby generally that they have now got over this "England's first foreign head coach" thing. Absolutely will not matter a shyte when England starts winning matches under Jones. Who honestly gives a poop about the nationality of their head coach? It's too important a job for jingoism to play any sort of part in appointments and that goes for assistant coaches too. I full expect Gustard to come in as first appointment and that would be a smart move.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:52 am

I kinda do George. The sooner World Rugby get off their behinds and implement the same rules for coaches as the players the better. That said until that rule comes in Jones at this time looks the strongest candidate.

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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:56 am

Imo, coaches should be from the country they are from. If it's good enough for players it's good enough for coaches.
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Post by BamBam Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:58 am

I'm pretty happy with the appointment, would have been nice to have an English coach but I think winning is more important at the moment.

The England cricket and football teams have got past the foreign coach thing a long time ago, and in today's world I don't have a problem with it.

If he wins, it'll be forgotten. If he loses, we should have had an Englishman

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Post by George Carlin Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:01 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I kinda do George. The sooner World Rugby get off their behinds and implement the same rules for coaches as the players the better. That said until that rule comes in Jones at this time looks the strongest candidate.
I really do respect that opinion, but I would think that it has to be tempered with an understanding of whether applying the nationality rule leaves you with sufficient quality options. It's a rarified world when it comes to international coaching and I hope that Jones will spend some time bringing in some local talent at assistant coach level, which will leave an Englishman much better prepared when it comes his turn for the top job one day.
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Post by munkian Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:03 am

Its good to see him continuing to help out tier 2 rugby.

Maybe the RFU can buy a win against SA now ? Wink
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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:03 am

George Carlin wrote:Who honestly gives a poop about the nationality of their head coach?

People from SA, France and NZ do.

The rest, well they don't give a poopie.
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Post by sad_gimp Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:05 am

If he just gets us hooking the ball and playing it quick instead of waiting for the scrum penalty lottery, I don't care if we lose.

Actually, that's a lie....but I'll be glad to see that 'tactic' thrown out.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:11 am

The RFU boxed themselves into a corner with the 'test-experience' demand for the job. Having had 2 rookies over 8 years they really couldn’t afford another one and had to go for the opposite to look like they knew what they were doing. Personally I’d have stuck with MJ all those years ago and allowed him to develop in the job, but hey ho the dwarves got him in the end. As for the other marquee names, well the top SH guys weren’t going to budge – Cheika told it right when he said he had his perfect job already. And I’m just glad we don’t have to hear anymore about ABs man-crush Wayne – his name, and ‘I couldn’t abandon my boys’ attitude was beginning to grate tbh.

I’m mostly happy with a non-English coach as he is likely to bring new ideas to the party, and not get too bogged down with past loyalties or establishment pressure (I hope). Even if he only stays a few years he could point England in the right direction – provided the RFU are savvy enough to plan ahead for when he inevitably moves on. They are right? Savvy?
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Post by Pal Joey Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:17 am

I wish England the best of luck with their new Tasmanian rugby coach.
(of course growing up in Matraville might help!)

I agree with ebop though. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
First Bayliss and now Eddie. Who's next?  Ange Postecoglou?  Smile
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Post by eirebilly Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:22 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:I wish England the best of luck with their new Tasmanian rugby coach.
(of course growing up in Matraville might help!)

I agree with ebop though. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
First Bayliss and now Eddie. Who's next?  Ange Postecoglou?  Smile

Ok, I will bite. Who is that?
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Post by Sin é Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:29 am

ebop wrote:I thought Wayne Smith had gone on record saying he wouldn't coach a Tier 1 team that could challenge the All Blacks. Could be wrong.

He did. Blame Roy Keane.

Speaking after the fallout from the All Blacks' shock quarter-final exit at the 2007 World Cup, Keane told the team and management if they ever left they must visualise the jersey they might pull over their head.

Keane said most of the time it was not the right one and they would forever wish they were still in the jersey they now wore.

"I took that on board and every decision I make is based on that," Smith said.

"My head can turn like anyone else when it comes to money but, ultimately, I've come to understand that's not what's going to make you happy.

"The jerseys I generally want to pull over my head are in New Zealand - they've been the Crusaders, Chiefs and All Blacks and I've been happy with those decisions.

"They weren't made for money," Smith said. "They were made for love and passion. I'll try and stick to that for the rest of my life.

"If I ever do [coach overseas] it would need to be significant for me. It would more likely be running a campaign that's not in the top tier - that's not a threat to the All Blacks. I would struggle to coach against them if it was a genuine tier one threat."

After attempting to help the All Blacks become the first nation to win successive tournaments, Smith will be approaching 59 and is keen to spend time at home.

"I don't know if coaching Australia, South Africa, England or France would allow me to do that with any piece of mind."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/64495853/Wayne-Smith-I-won-t-coach-against-sides-I-love
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Post by ebop Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:36 am

That's the one Sin é, I recall reading that Roy Keane reference now. Good man Wink

Eddie Jones could do well for England if they buy into him but I can't help but think there'll be a hurdle somewhere.
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Post by Pal Joey Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:38 am

eirebilly wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:I wish England the best of luck with their new Tasmanian rugby coach.
(of course growing up in Matraville might help!)

I agree with ebop though. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
First Bayliss and now Eddie. Who's next?  Ange Postecoglou?  Smile

Ok, I will bite. Who is that?

He's our Greek born, Australian football coach.

OK, it's perhaps a bit premature to suggest him. Need to make sure our own house is in order before floating such silly ideas, yeah?
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Post by eirebilly Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:41 am

Aah good man LD, have never heard of him Very Happy
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:47 am

All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.
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Post by Pal Joey Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:48 am

eirebilly wrote:Aah good man LD, have never heard of him Very Happy

I'm sure you can see a pattern emerging though. Lucky for you the Republic doesn't have such coaching crises. Smile
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:53 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:03 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Not that ole chestnut again? laughing

I dunno, there's just something about Jones that I don't like/rate I haven't made my mind up which yet. He seems to like a bit of trolling gamesmanship like Gatland.

Who know's maybe he'll do brilliant. England's biggest weakness IMO is also it's biggest strength. Player depth and selection. Sure Jones will have hundreds of players to choose from but finding the right ones and getting them all to sing from the same hymn sheet is where the challenge of the England job lies. Lancaster was a whisker away from achieving this only to adopt an uber conservative approach in the run up to the RWC which seemed anathema to the kind of rugby England were playing in the 6N and before.

The reasons behind this change in tactic remain a mystery. Is Jones the best person to get the best players together? Possibly. Will he be able to unite the team and get them playing a style that suits them best? Unknown.

Time will tell.


Last edited by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:08 am

I agree with all that.

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Post by RubyGuby Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:09 am

ebop wrote:Imo, coaches should be from the country they are from. If it's good enough for players it's good enough for coaches.

Last time I checked Jones was from the country that he's from thumbsup

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:12 am

RubyGuby wrote:
ebop wrote:Imo, coaches should be from the country they are from. If it's good enough for players it's good enough for coaches.

Last time I checked Jones was from the country that he's from thumbsup

Does that mean we could employ Lancaster? He represented Scotland at age grade level? I'd certainly be happier with him as our Director of Rugby as opposed to Scott Johnson! picard

Who knows, hopefully Scott Johnson will fire in his CV to work alongside Eddie! Fingers Crossed
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Post by George Carlin Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:15 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.
Crikey. That didn't take long.
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Post by RubyGuby Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:15 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
ebop wrote:Imo, coaches should be from the country they are from. If it's good enough for players it's good enough for coaches.

Last time I checked Jones was from the country that he's from thumbsup

Does that mean we could employ Lancaster? He represented Scotland at age grade level? I'd certainly be happier with him as our Director of Rugby as opposed to Scott Johnson! picard

Who knows, hopefully Scott Johnson will fire in his CV to work alongside Eddie! Fingers Crossed

Then again Johnson is a Scott who's Australian whilst Lancaster is a Scott who coached England - It would be great if Lancaster was offered that role though. thumbsup

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Post by George Carlin Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:18 am

Martin Johnson played for New Zealand U21s.

Very few people are uncontaminated.
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Post by lostinwales Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:18 am

Damn Scots messing up our rugby team Smile

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