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Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

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Post by yappysnap Fri 20 Nov 2015, 07:24

First topic message reminder :

So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Fri 27 Nov 2015, 13:57

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I read McGeechan wants Jones to keep on Farrell and the rest of the crew - why's he got it in for England exactly?

Because he is a Scot, well the sort of Yorky variety and they are Englands next "victims"
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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 27 Nov 2015, 16:38

Goldman Sachs hires Japan’s rugby alchemist Eddie Jones

England’s new rugby coach Eddie Jones has been hired as an adviser by Goldman Sachs in Japan...

The 55-year-old Australian...will join a nine-member advisory board at the start of next year, a spokesman said Friday...

...The board, created in 2001, is made up of leaders from many industries and advises on business and regulatory matters. Jones will take up his new role with the investment banking firm on Jan. 1.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/27/business/goldman-sachs-hires-japans-rugby-alchemist-eddie-jones/

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Fri 27 Nov 2015, 16:49

Perhaps he can advise the boys on some decent investments
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Post by SecretFly Fri 27 Nov 2015, 17:02

He's going to be a busy man. Full-time England coach but only part-time Wink

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Post by Gwlad Sat 28 Nov 2015, 18:46

Hilarious Very Happy Very Happy

I guess this is a result of the kit man's investment advice

Will England ever learn

Nick Easter will be pleased

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 02 Dec 2015, 13:28

Borthwick as lineout coach, Hatley as scrum coach it seems.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 02 Dec 2015, 13:50

LondonTiger wrote:Borthwick as lineout coach, Hatley as scrum coach it seems.

So does Rowntree go to Bristol or Bath?

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 02 Dec 2015, 14:09

lostinwales wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Borthwick as lineout coach, Hatley as scrum coach it seems.

So does Rowntree go to Bristol or Bath?

Falcons

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Post by Gwlad Wed 02 Dec 2015, 16:04

Apparently Eddie is coaching from japan as he can't get a visa, easier to do his Goldman's job though I imagine.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 02 Dec 2015, 16:20

LondonTiger wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Borthwick as lineout coach, Hatley as scrum coach it seems.

So does Rowntree go to Bristol or Bath?

Falcons

Id take that!

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 02 Dec 2015, 19:14

As an aside, the Japanese press is reporting that Robbie Deans and Jamie Joseph are leading candidates to succeed Jones as coach of Japan.

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Post by Bathman_in_London Wed 02 Dec 2015, 20:52

So once again Japan are hiring better coaches than England?!

For what it's worth Marc dal Maso was the Japan scrum coach rather than Borthwick.

Hatley would be a big loss to Bath, he is a seriously good coach and very popular with the squad.

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Post by nathan Wed 02 Dec 2015, 21:15

Bathman_in_London wrote:So once again Japan are hiring better coaches than England?!

For what it's worth Marc dal Maso was the Japan scrum coach rather than Borthwick.

Hatley would be a big loss to Bath, he is a seriously good coach and very popular with the squad.

What on earth makes you think Robbie deans is a better coach than Jones?

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Post by Bathman_in_London Wed 02 Dec 2015, 21:25

Taking the crusaders from 10th to 5 time super rugby winners was pretty impressive.

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Post by yappysnap Wed 02 Dec 2015, 21:58

Yea just look at his record with the Crusaders, he is a very good coach.

Had his problems with Australia, politics, egos and being a foreign coach a few of them.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 03 Dec 2015, 08:40

Poor Eddie...written off after 3 days on the job Shocked

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 03 Dec 2015, 10:10

Do you think theres any rumours of Neal Hatley the Bath Scrum Coach being lined up for the England scrum coach spot?

Would that be him and Borthwick working in tandem?

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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu 03 Dec 2015, 10:31

Well Mike Ford publically commented on the rumours, so it wouldn't be a surprise.

I would think so, as I mentioned above, Borthwick wasn't the scrum coach for Japan, so there is clearly room for two forward roles in Jones' mind.

I'm not writing off Eddie, but I do think Dingo Deans is too good a coach to be coaching a Japanese club.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 03 Dec 2015, 10:49

And Meyer's gone now

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 03 Dec 2015, 11:26

Why are we even discussing others when we have had Eddie in place for 3 days? (Well I accept he's in japan but been England head coach for 3 days)

Focus on him.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 03 Dec 2015, 11:35

Not calling for Meyer by the way!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 03 Dec 2015, 14:13

Gwlad wrote:Apparently Eddie is coaching from japan as he can't get a visa.

If it takes anything like as long as my wife's visa he might not be here for a while. #threeandahalfweeksandcounting Whistle

Might just make it for the 6N, mind Wink

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 03 Dec 2015, 14:32

Im sure this one will be pushed through...

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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu 03 Dec 2015, 14:56

I hope he is using the time to watch all the premiership highlights and videos that he can.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 03 Dec 2015, 15:39

Bathman_in_London wrote:I hope he is using the time to watch all the premiership highlights and videos that he can.

He has reportedly watched all of England's games in 2015, so presumably AP is next.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 04 Dec 2015, 08:36

Stuck in Japan, watching rugby all day. Feel sorry for the guy.

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Post by Bathman_in_London Fri 04 Dec 2015, 08:55

Watching rugby and eating sushi is a pretty decent combo. Especially with a glass of sake thrown in.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:04

Do we know for certain Eddie is in Japan? He doesn't have the proper visa to work in England, but he can travel. Could he possibly be in that primitive southern hemisphere country explored by Captain Cook? What's it called now???

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:12

As long as hes watching the England Club games and them in Europe that's all that matters.

On current form he might be quite impressed the way many EQ players have started especially in Europe...

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 04 Dec 2015, 15:16

doctor_grey wrote:Do we know for certain Eddie is in Japan?
When you apply for a work visa, you generally get it in the same location.

I just popped into a local Tokyo bookshop and saw no fewer than four titles devoted the Eddie Jones management style. This isn't a rough place to be for him right now.

Forgive the lengthy URLs, but these are the Amazon Japan links to those books.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%81%AE%E7%9B%A3%E7%9D%A3%E5%AD%A6-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B0%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E5%86%8D%E5%BB%BA%E3%82%92%E8%A8%97%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E7%90%86%E7%94%B1-%E5%A4%A7%E5%8F%8B-%E4%BF%A1%E5%BD%A6/dp/4809410668

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B0%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BB%A3%E8%A1%A8%E3%83%98%E3%83%83%E3%83%89%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%81-%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AE%E5%AF%BE%E8%A9%B1-Sports-Graphic-Number/dp/4163903232

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B0%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BB%A3%E8%A1%A8%E7%9B%A3%E7%9D%A3%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%81%AE%E8%A8%80%E8%91%89%E2%80%95%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E3%81%A7%E5%8B%9D%E3%81%A4%E3%81%9F%E3%82%81%E3%81%AE%E6%80%9D%E6%83%B3%E3%81%A8%E6%88%A6%E7%95%A5-%E6%9F%B4%E8%B0%B7-%E6%99%8B/dp/458310815X

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%81%AE%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B0%E3%83%93%E3%83%BC%E6%94%B9%E9%80%A0%E6%88%A6%E8%A8%98%E2%80%95%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%91%E3%83%B3%E9%80%B2%E5%8C%96%E3%81%B8%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8F%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF-%E5%A4%A7%E5%8F%8B-%E4%BF%A1%E5%BD%A6/dp/4809413276

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 05 Dec 2015, 09:21

Incidentally, Robbie Deans says he doesn't want to get back into international or super rugby right now. Rob Penney, another man linked with the Japan job, has said he has not been in contact with the JRFU.

Japanese press says there's a five man list for Eddie Jones' old job, with Jamie Joseph at the top.

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Post by ebop Sat 05 Dec 2015, 09:52

Would be great to see Japan have a coach from Japan.
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Post by ClivesWoodWould Sat 05 Dec 2015, 11:17

Reading an article this morning with Rob Baxter saying he wouldn't be willing to drop down to be a number 2 after being the man in charge for a while got me thinking about what happens in 4 years time. With Eddie Jones unlikely to stay after the next World Cup I think the RFU need to start identifying potential candidates to take over when he finishes within the next 12 months. Its understandable that a Head coach or DOR wouldn't want to drop down to assistant for 4 years especially when the prime candidates like Baxter and Mallinder feel they are building something special at their clubs.

Allow EJ to select his coaching team and focus on making England one of the best teams in the world over the next 2/3 years. In that time the RFU can identify who they want to replace EJ. Say for example it is Baxter. He clearly won't be a number 2 for 4 years but if it's made clear to him that he is the favourite to take over the top job when EJ leaves, offer him an assistant job in 3 years time. He can work alongside EJ for 12 months integrating himself into the setup giving a seamless transition to his reign as top dog. I'm sure he'll be more willing to accept the position under those terms.

I'm not saying it should be Baxter. Just used him as an example as it was an article on him I was reading.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 05 Dec 2015, 11:52

ClivesWoodWould wrote:...I think the RFU need to start identifying potential candidates to take over when he finishes within the next 12 months...
I hope they would think of having a backup plan a bit sooner. I don't wish any ill on the man, but Eddie Jones has had health issues before, so we ought to have some idea of who we would turn to in an emergency.

Further out, succession planning should be an ongoing evaluation rather than a one-off decision. Aside from Steve Hansen, no assistant coach has ever successfully stepped straight up to the top job, so we are asking quite a lot if we expect a member of Jones's team to be our future head coach. I hope it happens, but it generally doesn't.

The RFU needs to keep looking at coaches within the Premiership, who aren't involved with Jones, with a view to seeing whether one of them might be suitable to succeed him.

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Post by ebop Sat 05 Dec 2015, 12:36

Good call RugbyFan. Eddie Jones should be looked at as a 'caretaker' coach whilst the RFU go balls to the wall to nurture a homegrown coach. But why aren't club coaches already clamouring to be the head coach? I don't get it. We hear in the SH all the time about how awesome NH club rugby is yet where are all the NH club coaches standing up to be national coaches? Is it because coaching the national team isn't the end point? Or because the club coaches just aren't much chop?  Or is it the successful club coaches are foreigners to start with?
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Post by LondonTiger Sat 05 Dec 2015, 13:00

Current Club bosses in the AP, in last season's table order:

Jim Mallinder (English
Northampton: Premiership Title 2014, Runners Up 2013. HEC Runners up 2011. Challenge Cup winners 2014, 2009, AngloWelsh winners 2010.

Saxons 2006/7

England Academy 2004/7

Sale 2001-04, Challenge cup winners 2002



Mike Ford (English)

Bath - Premiership runners up 2015
England - Defence Coach, 6Ns title 2011
Saracens


Richard Cockerill (English)
Leicester - as boss: Premiership title 2009,10,13. (runners up 11, 12); HEC runners up 2009, AngloWelsh 2012
As forwards coach Premiership title, Anglo Welsh cup, HEC runners up all 2007


Mark McCall (Ulsterman)
Saracens - Two titles, two runner up spots in AP, Runners up in champions Cup, ~anglo Welsh win.


Four excellent coaches. Mallinder wanted the job. Ford probably not, after last experience. cockerill knows he would not be selected.

In the end RFU demanded international coaching experience.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 05 Dec 2015, 15:01

All the Premiership coaches knew the pressure was on the RFU to select a coach with significant international experience.   They simply could not afford another screw-up, and in their thought process selecting an experienced international coach was the safest route.   The polar opposite to the Lancaster selection. So their choices were limited, and that excluded Baxter, Mallinder, McCall, O'Shea, Cockerill, and Ryan.  The real question is who would be the next selection?  From the point of view of Premiership accomplishments and experience, all those guys, possibly bar Ryan and Baxter (though he is a damn good coach) have already punched their tickets with Premiership titles.  And all bar Ryan have displayed consistent excellence.  

The coaches knew to say they weren't interested simply because they knew they wouldn't be selected.  Mallinder, the exception, stuck his toe in the water just to see what would happen.  

The reality is Baxter would be a very good choice.  So would Mallinder, and even Cockerill.  I like O'Shea, but would prefer an English coach.  But if we go off shore, I wouldn't look past O'Shea who in reality is not so off-shore and is very much part of the Premiership fabric.  

In my unrealistic ideal, Mallinder is head coach, with Cockers and Alex King.  And some way to integrate O'Shea. Boom.  Win,  Done.

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 07 Dec 2015, 00:22

I asked before on the forum what criteria we ought to use to judge whether Jones is succeeding.

Brian Moore thinks he shouldn't be expected to win a 6N for us until at least 2018 but does want to see higher skill levels and a discernible game plan.

There must be some criteria against which Jones is judged but the Six Nations test is one that can be left for the two years before the next World Cup. What must happen, irrespective of results, is that we see a clear pattern of play developing and tangible progress being made towards its fulfilment...See that as defeatist if you want but this time round England have to get it right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12036314/England-coach-Eddie-Jones-must-be-judged-more-on-improving-players-skill-sets-than-results-alone.html

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Post by cb Mon 07 Dec 2015, 08:47

I rather agree with Brian Moore, you want to see the coach improving the team and improving the performances.  

The biggest problem for me with Lancaster was that the England team seemed to peak at the 2014 Six Nations and for the first tour match versus New Zealand, and then as a whole go back.

There is no God-given right to win a 6N's or anything else but you want your coach to show that things are getting better.

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Post by jamesandimac Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:14

England have be there or there abouts for a long time with most people only seeing a few tweeks required, that sadly never came, in order to see them regularly beat the best and win 6Ns etc.

Due to the changes we are likely to see, the squad, both EPS and matchday will likely remain the same with only a handfull of changes likely.

To that end, if Jones can concentrate on improving performance through better skill sets and a better gameplan to suite what our strengths are then there is no reason why the results won't come with it.

I won't be expecting fireworks as it takes time to adapt to a gameplan, however I will them expect to push in this 6Ns.


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Post by beshocked Fri 11 Dec 2015, 10:39

LondonTiger wrote:Current Club bosses in the AP, in last season's table order:

Jim Mallinder (English
Northampton: Premiership Title 2014, Runners Up 2013. HEC Runners up 2011. Challenge Cup winners 2014, 2009, AngloWelsh winners 2010.

Saxons 2006/7

England Academy 2004/7

Sale 2001-04, Challenge cup winners 2002



Mike Ford (English)

Bath - Premiership runners up 2015
England - Defence Coach, 6Ns title 2011
Saracens


Richard Cockerill (English)
Leicester - as boss: Premiership title 2009,10,13. (runners up 11, 12);  HEC runners up 2009, AngloWelsh 2012
As forwards coach Premiership title, Anglo Welsh cup, HEC runners up all 2007


Mark McCall (Ulsterman)
Saracens - Two titles, two runner up spots in AP, Runners up in champions Cup, ~anglo Welsh win.


Four excellent coaches. Mallinder wanted the job. Ford probably not, after last experience. cockerill knows he would not be selected.

In the end RFU demanded international coaching experience.


Should add that Mccall has won a Celtic League title with Ulster in 2006. The only time Ulster have won the Celtic League too.

Can many coaches say they've won titles in two different leagues?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2015, 10:47

Do you rate him highly? He's in that group with mallinder for me; should do slightly better generally?

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Post by beshocked Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:02

I rate Mccall above Mallinder yes but then again I would. As I said it says a lot about a coach when they can take two separate teams to titles.

Doesn't mean I would want either for England. Still feel that both need a ERCC title to enhance their reputations.


Think Mccall is a future Ireland coach though, better than O Shea. Now head to head isn't everything but Saracens have beaten Quins on so many occasions. Tactically I think O Shea is so inept when Quins face Saracens.

Baxter,Cockerill and Mallinder have all been more successful vs Saracens than O Shea which shows a weakness there.

If O Shea ever wants to be rated as highly as the others in my eyes he needs to improve his record vs Saracens.

Eddie Jones was my pick anyway.

I think the best four DORs plying their trade in the AP at the moment are:

Mark Mccall

Rob Baxter

Jim Mallinder

Richard Cockerill

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:08

Everyone tends to have their own styles they don't move much from and they can play into the hands of others a bit. Would say Saracens have better players as well though. McCall and Mallinder just lack a little bit at the top end for me. Great squads and just fall short a little too often. English sides in general look a little stronger across the board, some youngsters starting to settle. Looks good for the future.

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Post by beshocked Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:23

Yes everyone has their own styles but it is a criticism of a coach when they cannot beat team X when others can. Or being unable to do something that others can - e.g. getting out of a pool stage or getting a GS.

Lancaster fell into that too - his and England's inability to beat South Africa despite every man and their dog being capable of the task - e.g. Japan,Ireland and Wales.

Mccall is not the finished article, he still needs to work out Toulon, if Wasps and Tigers can beat them then so should Saracens be capable of the task.

His main problem teams are Clermont and Toulon but Saracens have become more competitive vs Clermont in the last two seasons.

Mccall has done better in recent years than his other DOR rivals against European opposition.

I rate all 4 but each still has some proving to do.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:26

They don't look as good this year so Saracens do stand a great chance.

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Post by BamBam Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:31

beshocked wrote:Yes everyone has their own styles but it is a criticism of a coach when they cannot beat team X when others can. Or being unable to do something that others can - e.g. getting out of a pool stage or getting a GS.

Lancaster fell into that too - his and England's inability to beat South Africa despite every man and their dog being capable of the task - e.g. Japan,Ireland and Wales.

Mccall is not the finished article, he still needs to work out Toulon, if Wasps and Tigers can beat them then so should Saracens be capable of the task.

His main problem teams are Clermont and Toulon but Saracens have become more competitive vs Clermont in the last two seasons.

Mccall has done better in recent years than his other DOR rivals against European opposition.

I rate all 4 but each still has some proving to do.

To be fair to McCall, its one thing beating Toulon in the group stages, and completely different beating them in knockout rugby

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Post by Bathman_in_London Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:36

McCall is a future international coach for sure, maybe Ireland post 2019...?
I agree that coaching and winning in two different leagues is a big plus, which is one of the reasons I really respect Cheika. I would love it if some of the English coaches had more experience from other leagues, it can only be helpful to have coached in multiple leagues I think.

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Post by beshocked Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:48

no 7 & 1/2 they do but many other teams especially the English ones will fancy their chances too. It's the English clubs who are obviously the biggest winners in the early rounds. It's these double headers which will decide whether they can push home that advantage.

bathman in london

Interesting you talk about post 2019. I think that's when a coach like Baxter could have sufficient experience for England if he can notch up an AP title with Exeter before then.

I believe that elusive ERCC title is what is keeping the likes of Mallinder,Cockerill and Mccall from moving on to another job.

True Bambam but it's about building belief. It's still a big win regardless of knockout or not. Wasps' big win over Toulon makes Toulon's efforts at qualifying from a tough group just that bit harder.

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Post by nathan Sat 12 Dec 2015, 22:19

Interesting read, all the coaching team gone

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/dec/12/eddie-jones-england-backroom-team-paul-gustard

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