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Who Would You LikeTo See As England Captain?

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Post by Mr Bounce Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

I think the writing is on the wall for Chris Robshaw. I think that's fairly obvious following his poor decision-making over the years, especially in the RWC Welsh game, as well as the much-reported soundbite from Eddie Jones that he doesn't regard him as an international openside. As a result I am not certain he makes the starting line-up now as a 6.

So what are the alternatives? Either an interim captain or long-term? And who? It's subjective anyway as we don't know what the squad is yet - there may be some high-level casualties.

Wood is as good as gone - as much of a fan of his I have been, he's been woeful for England recently so I think he'll have to fight his way back in. Ford? Not sure he's up to it yet. Farrell for me is too much of a hot head and needs calming down. Centres are undecided right now, with Slade the only fit and available player from the RWC and he's only got 2 caps. The captain for me has to be an absolute certain starter on the team sheet every time - and there's precious few of those right now. My thoughts? Based on their all-round ability, relative experience, likelihood of being a team sheet "essential player" and youth, I would aim for one of Joe Launchbury or Billy Vunipola. Both class acts on the pitch, and I believe both would have the respect of their teammates. Will Greenwood rates Launchbury highly - my only concern is would he be vocal enough?? Still, I would be happy for either right now.

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Post by lostinwales Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:04 pm

Well we are where we are and there are good reasons for choosing EJ. Might as well wait for a few games before making judgements

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:31 pm

Im happy with Eddie.

Lots of negative vibes going around but im not sure why. The more I have read and seen of him, I think he'll sort us out.

Ironically there not vast amounts to change from the Lancaster sides...just target a few areas to improve like the breakdown.

And I don't think he doesn't value the scrum etc. He has seen the Japan scrum become a potent weapon, and wouldn't have signed up the likes of Borthwick etc if he didn't value the lineout etc.

I think a lot of the negativity is that many non England fans etc recognise that Eddie could really bring on the England team again and they don't like that.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:35 pm

Definitely. I just want to see him given more than a handful of games before we judge. I reckon we stand a great chance in the 6Ns but if it goes pear shaped early doors it doesn't mean he's a failre.

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Post by lostinwales Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:46 pm

It is not like when Lancaster took over and needed to start from (almost scratch). Eddie is taking over a team that did mess up big time at the RWC but have looked very good in spells if not quite the finished article in recent years

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:10 pm

lostinwales wrote:It is not like when Lancaster took over and needed to start from (almost scratch). Eddie is taking over a team that did mess up big time at the RWC but have looked very good in spells if not quite the finished article in recent years

I think you've hit the nail on the head. At times, we looked very impressive and world beating. The problem is, those performances have been too few / inconsistent and mixed with some utter cr@p.


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Post by Rugby Fan Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:23 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:...Lots of negative vibes going around but im not sure why. The more I have read and seen of him, I think he'll sort us out...
I wouldn't count myself as negative but I do have concerns. I get my knickers in a twist when I see or hear people saying "Eddie Jones is just the man to do X", when X has no basis in anything Jones has ever done in the past, but is just simply something the writer/speaker thinks a quality coach would somehow inevitably do.

A lot of the optimism about Jones is coming from those who know what he has done, but not how he has done it. I don't count myself as pessimistic about Jones, but I wonder whether he is the right man to get the best out of the resources we have now.

I don't think a poor Six Nations would be any reason to ditch him, but I'll repeat a question I asked before. Under what circumstances, and over what period,  would people judge the appointment of Eddie Jones to be a success or failure?

If we win the 6N, Grand Slam or not, I would say he's done his job. However, would a subsequent 3-0 series loss in Australia put us back to square one? I think we should entertain serious ambitions of winning that series.

Let's look at it another way, Lancaster began his career with a 2nd place 6N, a series loss in summer, a win over unbeatable NZ, and another 2nd place 6N. It's not a bad record but it didn't get us to the right place, so should we cut our losses with Jones if he can only match that and not get us trophies over the same period?

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:19 pm

The biggest hurdle for jones will be getting the players to execute his tactics.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:22 pm

How so?

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Post by doctor_grey Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:23 pm

I want the next England captain and his team in the Six Nations to show solidarity with each other and have the same haircut.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/12017870/North-Koreans-ordered-to-copy-Kim-Jong-uns-ambitious-hair-style.html

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:27 pm

Headless chicken syndrome

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:30 pm

He prefers headless chickens?

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Post by lostinwales Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:35 pm

mr beans gurn wrote:Headless chicken syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:40 pm

Do you think the players are able to comfortably adapt to a change of tactics if the match dictates it ? Based on the last few years I don't.How many botched tries because the player with the ball didn't look up or left

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:46 pm

A few. How many tries have England scored in comparison to others? Very few occasions where we've been outscored by tries. Do you not think we have some quality, certainly in the backs, that in the last couple of years have meant others have cast envious glances?

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:52 pm

I do agree we have some quality and I also think jones is a good coach but in the past the players have been extremely naive.I just hope they knuckle down listen and execute.

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:55 pm

By saying that its rare we are outscored and the fact our win ratio is less than 60% it points to poor discipline and dare I say it......headless chicken syndrome

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:57 pm

Really. Quite a lot of headless chickens in world rugby then. You an England fan? Who would you say aren't headless and who is?

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:58 pm

No need to get angry.I mean as a collective

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:58 pm

Yes I am,a disappointed one

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Post by mr beans gurn Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:03 pm

Losing against wales when leading by ten at home is unacceptable to me.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:53 pm

Cool haircuts can mean our lads will attract more women.

http://cdn1.epictimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/football-960x590.jpg

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:04 pm

mr beans gurn wrote:No need to get angry.I mean as a collective

Not angry at all, if you can't answer theres no need to deflect.

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Post by Gwlad Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:54 am

Cupboard is pretty bare on leadership. Launchbury is probably the best there is. Hartley would have been but is headshot.

Brown is a scrapper and though he has heart he is a poor example. Robshaw is obviously not guaranteed a place and can't take on the failure of LANCASTER. Wood maybe but only in the absence of anything better. Yawn.

I expect Jones to do the sensible thing, pick his team and then pick  Capt who will have to grow into the role

6 Nations could be messy for England but no doubt they'll talk it up as the big comeback, Winston spirit, never have so few made such a mess and blamed it on so many etc etc.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:14 am

Gwlad wrote:Cupboard is pretty bare on leadership. Launchbury is probably the best there is. Hartley would have been but is headshot.

Brown is a scrapper and though he has heart he is a poor example. Robshaw is obviously not guaranteed a place and can't take on the failure of LANCASTER. Wood maybe but only in the absence of anything better. Yawn.

I expect Jones to do the sensible thing, pick his team and then pick  Capt who will have to grow into the role

6 Nations could be messy for England but no doubt they'll talk it up as the big comeback, Winston spirit, never have so few made such a mess and blamed it on so many etc etc.

Could be..or with a few tweaks to personnel could be very productive. I guess we shall just wait and see.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:44 am

So Robshaw it is. Just hope Eddie sends him to Captain's School first, and we'll be sorted.

Assuming Eddie picks a fetcher-type 7 I can't see why Robshaw wouldn't make a decent 6. I mean with that Slammin' chap gone he wouldn't have too much competition.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:54 am

Robshaw will make a very good 6 I have doubt of that.

How do you know its Robshaw?

And I think he does have competition....

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