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WTF 2015 - Finals Day

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WTF 2015 - Finals Day - Page 2 Empty WTF 2015 - Finals Day

Post by laverfan Sun 22 Nov 2015, 5:21 am

First topic message reminder :

PDF version - PDF version
Day 8 link - Day 8 link
Live Scores on the ATP Web Site - ATP Live Scores
Barclays Live Scores - Barclays Live Scores

MoTD: Djokovic v Federer (really!  laughing or should it be Ack!Ack! vs Kamikaze)

Fingers Crossed to both gladiators.

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Post by summerblues Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:14 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Fed's hit some great shots actually, do you mean he needs to attack earlier in the rally, and look for more 3-6 shot points?
Yes.

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

Oh what a play,

turn it on Fed
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

Way more enjoyable to watch this match than any match Murray has been involved in.
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Post by Guest Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:18 pm

All that for a point...

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:20 pm

S & V a game or two Fed, you're going home anyway.
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Post by summerblues Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:21 pm

This could well be the last changeover. One feels Novak can step it up a bit and break. Fed is also making more errors now.

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:22 pm

No way. Thats a return noone else could ever have hit!

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:23 pm

All done here.

Fed sleeping, Djoko shooting.
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Post by Guest Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:23 pm

The boundaries in which is sport is pushing is frightening...

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:25 pm

The serve a more faithful partner to Federer than Mirka.

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:25 pm

Good save by Fed from 0:40.

Get a grip now, take a set at least.
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Post by LuvSports! Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:25 pm

Huge hold!!!!

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:27 pm

but gone with the wind in this one... needs more pistol pete serving

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Post by summerblues Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:30 pm

Federer escaped the last service game, but I was not that far from guessing it could have been the last changeover. As the set is nearing the end, Novak will be stepping up pressure.

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:31 pm

This is it it seems.
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Post by Henman Bill Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:31 pm

Novak hits it closer to the baseline against Roger than againnst other players. I guess he knows you need to. that point to get 0-30 up was textbook in pressing Rog onto the bsaeline

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Post by Henman Bill Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:33 pm

Rog just knew he couuldn't afford a short second serve againnst this man. The first MP was also a gutsy one close to the line that could have been a DF

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:34 pm

Well, bit of a non-final, but deserved by Djoko.
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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:34 pm

Oh dear... bad way to end

Well dont Novak, gets it done with ease when it matters. To his mind that will put right the rr.

Really odd is hes even in h2h with BOTH Nadal and Federer now. Odds on to have better records against both of them now.

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:34 pm

On the plus, it was a better final than last years... even if it wasnt that competitive

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Post by Jahu Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:35 pm

Djoko writes: And now Holiday on camera.

Good year he had, hope his last Smile
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Post by Henman Bill Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:36 pm

19-31 is not a good W-UE for Rog, felt more like 20-25 would have been my guess from actually watching it

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Post by summerblues Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:36 pm

Very straightforward win for Novak.  He was always likely to win, but not clear to me what Roger was trying to do today.  He started playing baseline exchanges against Novak, which was never going to give him any chance.

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Post by It Must Be Love Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:37 pm

Really flat match somehow, apart from that great serving at 0-40 3-4 from Federer 2nd set.
Djokovic a cut above the rest.

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Post by CAS Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:37 pm

Sad way to end, Federer was top hot and cold. Just couldn't hit winners, both hit very few winners.  The surface makes a difference, it's no coincidence Federers wins come on fast courts. Novak is the best ever slow hard court player, tip my hat

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:39 pm

Takes too much to win enough points against Djoker. Lets see if that remains the case for the new year, hopefully it isn't we need a competitive tour.
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Post by Haddie-nuff Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:40 pm

Thanks Novak.. makes me even more optimistic for Rafa in  2016 because given that result he is in very good company it would seem. Wink

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:41 pm

summerblues wrote:Very straightforward win for Novak.  He was always likely to win, but not clear to me what Roger was trying to do today.  He started playing baseline exchanges against Novak, which was never going to give him any chance.

Agree. Was Djoko playing so well as to not allow Roger to come in - I don't think so. But Fed's serve was not so good today, so that may have stopped him coming in so much. And his returns off Djoko's 2nd serve were also poor.

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:44 pm

He missed some easy volleys too though. The blitz tactic was nerfed from the beginning

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Post by YvonneT Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:47 pm

temporary21 wrote:On the plus, it was a  better final than last years... even if it wasnt that competitive
Haha!

Well, I enjoyed it. Yeah, not much drama but some good shots in there. But Roger looked closer to how he looked in the Nishikori match than other matches - getting into too many baseline exchanges which ended in poor errors. But Djokovic was very good, especially after a nervy first few games.

Is that 22-22 against Nadal and 23-23 against Federer? Never mind that they are level, 90 matches against those two is an amazing number.

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Post by HM Murdock Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:49 pm

Fed fell into the same trap as he did at the US Open: got involved in a baseline battle.

Much of this was down to Novak who played with great length to pin him back, but I didn't detect the level of aggression he had against Stan last night. He seemed willing to play on Novak's terms.

Great to end to a fabulous season for Novak though. Three slams, six Masters and and WTF. Doesn't get much better than that.

And on to 2016.

I hope Novak can keep building his legacy but my big wish for next year is to see Del Potro back and playing near his best.

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Post by TRuffin Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:50 pm

Great win djokovic. Fed played well but not great- but it was clear djoko was the Better player today. Fed seemed stuck in not knowing what to do to solve djoko today. Djoko was just hitting so cleanly and kept fed on the baseline.

Djoko clearly the best all around player of his generation and poised to make a run at fed for all time best.

Nice speeches from both guys as well. Class.

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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 7:55 pm

Thats over 40 between the top 3, with another what 33 from fedal? Most of them finals?
Thats an absolute joke...

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Post by Henman Bill Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:01 pm

Hmm. Will Djokovic turn the Nadal and Federer head to heads positive by next year?

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Post by HM Murdock Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:13 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Hmm. Will Djokovic turn the Nadal and Federer head to heads positive by next year?
I would have thought so.

There's a very good chance that Novak will end his career as the player who inflicted most defeats on both Federer and Nadal.

The question is which of those two will be the player who inflicts most defeats on Novak?

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:19 pm

Belgian victory in the Davis Cup would help lift the gloom of this season.

It's somewhat an unlikely event though.
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Post by temporary21 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:20 pm

The whole event is an unlikely event

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Post by Guest Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:36 pm

Djokovic was on his game for the semi and final, dispatching both Nadal and Federer in straight sets. He just needs to remain focussed and motivated and should clear up the slams next season with the biggest danger to him being a big hitter running into some form.

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Post by YvonneT Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:49 pm

HM Murdock wrote:And on to 2016.

I hope Novak can keep building his legacy but my big wish for next year is to see Del Potro back and playing near his best.
And world peace surely? Wink

I believe that Delpo has been practising but haven't seen anything about a return date. Isn't that the best part of 2 years he's missed though, tough to get back from that.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:58 pm

Djoko rock solid as ever. Let's hope he gets some sort of a challenge in 2016. To me, it's the French that could trip him up. He can't expect to come up against such a below-par Rafa at RG next year, surely?

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Post by socal1976 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:00 pm

YvonneT wrote:
temporary21 wrote:On the plus, it was a  better final than last years... even if it wasnt that competitive
Haha!

Well, I enjoyed it. Yeah, not much drama but some good shots in there. But Roger looked closer to how he looked in the Nishikori match than other matches - getting into too many baseline exchanges which ended in poor errors. But Djokovic was very good, especially after a nervy first few games.

Is that 22-22 against Nadal and 23-23 against Federer? Never mind that they are level, 90 matches against those two is an amazing number.

Great post Yvonne with this see of negativity we have dealt with from some online today. I thought both guys played an exceptionally high and enjoyable level. I mean imagine having seven percent of your career wins against two players who happened to be named Nadal and Federer.

Wins against top ten players 31 wins (Novak 2015) 20 wins (Novak 2011)

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Post by paulcz Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:06 pm

TRuffin wrote:Great win djokovic.  Fed played well but not great- but it was clear djoko was the Better player today. Fed seemed stuck in not knowing what to do to solve djoko today.  Djoko was just hitting so cleanly and kept fed on the baseline.

Djoko clearly the best all around player of his generation and poised to make a run at fed for all time best.  

Nice speeches from both guys as well. Class.

Absolutely Truf, Nole is the best allrounder in this era. We need to give a big credit to Fed, who played brilliant tennis, but Novak is just incredible.

Novak's controll of the ball is amazing, he can move around the court every player. Both players showed another improvement, which in case of Fed is unbelievable.

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Post by socal1976 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:10 pm

I do agree because of fed's variety and unique style he poses the most consistent challenge to Novak but I feel people do get a bit carried away with some this 5-3 h2h. Yes it is impressive if you look at those wins: a win that proved almost meaningless in round robin play, and a win on super fast Dubai and Cincy. Legitametly, only Cincy can be seen as a big match for these two. Meanwhile Novak won IW, wimby, the USO, and the year end championship. It's been quite sometime since Roger won a truly big final at a slam against him. Still he is the toughest matchup really stylistically on a quick court because of how their games matchup and because no one else plays Roger's style anymore

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Post by paulcz Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:14 pm

HM Murdock wrote:Fed fell into the same trap as he did at the US Open: got involved in a baseline battle.

Much of this was down to Novak who played with great length to pin him back, but I didn't detect the level of aggression he had against Stan last night. He seemed willing to play on Novak's terms.

Great to end to a fabulous season for Novak though. Three slams, six Masters and and WTF. Doesn't get much better than that.

And on to 2016.

I hope Novak can keep building his legacy but my big wish for next year is to see Del Potro back and playing near his best.

Yes HMM, that is the point of the difference between Novak and Stan and other players.
Nole can hold the ball on his racket much longer and wait what his opponent does in regard  where he is. Novak has incredible control of the ball and his opponent just does not know where the ball is going. Then it is uneasy to make a transition to the net. Novak knew it and performed it really well.


Last edited by paulcz on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by paulcz Sun 22 Nov 2015, 9:27 pm

socal1976 wrote:I do agree because of fed's variety and unique style he poses the most consistent challenge to Novak but I feel people do get a bit carried away with some this 5-3 h2h. Yes it is impressive if you look at those wins: a win that proved almost meaningless in round robin play, and a win on super fast Dubai and Cincy. Legitametly, only Cincy can be seen as a big match for these two. Meanwhile Novak won IW, wimby, the USO, and the year end championship. It's been quite sometime since Roger won a truly big final at a slam against him. Still he is the toughest matchup really stylistically on a quick court because of how their games matchup and because no one else plays Roger's style anymore

Novak has become an awesome player who can up his game level in the biggest matches. Their round robin match was not important and Nole evaluated it well, it was not worthy to play a three setter at this stage. If there was Murray on the place of Novak, he would swear and vent out all frustrations in that match. That shows the difference between these players.
It is incredible how Fed improved his game and he still seems to be a big force next year. But he is going to have tougher times at BO5 format. Novak Djokovic is surely the best player of this season and is going to be the strongest favorite for next year.


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Post by socal1976 Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:00 pm

paulcz wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I do agree because of fed's variety and unique style he poses the most consistent challenge to Novak but I feel people do get a bit carried away with some this 5-3 h2h. Yes it is impressive if you look at those wins: a win that proved almost meaningless in round robin play, and a win on super fast Dubai and Cincy. Legitametly, only Cincy can be seen as a big match for these two. Meanwhile Novak won IW, wimby, the USO, and the year end championship. It's been quite sometime since Roger won a truly big final at a slam against him. Still he is the toughest matchup really stylistically on a quick court because of how their games matchup and because no one else plays Roger's style anymore

Novak has become an awesome player who can up his game level in the biggest matches. Their round robin match was not important and Nole has evaluated it well, it was not worthy to play three setter at this stage. If there was Murray on the place of Novak, he would swear and vent all frustrations in that match. That shows the difference between these players.
It is incredible how Fed improved his game and he still seems to be a big force next year. But he is going to have tougher times at BO5 format. Novak Djokovic is surely the best player of this season and is going to be the strongest favorite for next year.


I think paul another thing that people miss is how much the new racquet for Fed has improved his backhand and serve. I think this another reason Federer has maintained at his age such parity of results. But again the big finals have for years now all gone Novak's way. I think he will win at least two slams maybe more next year. Credit to Roger for forcing Novak to adjust his game a bit. People just demand Fed gets into the net but if your opponent is hitting deep and running you side to side you can't do that. And it is more dangerous when your opponent can return and pass like Djokovic. So Fed couldn't do what he wanted and move in more because he wasn't allowed to.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:37 pm

HM Murdock wrote:Fed fell into the same trap as he did at the US Open: got involved in a baseline battle.

Much of this was down to Novak who played with great length to pin him back, but I didn't detect the level of aggression he had against Stan last night. He seemed willing to play on Novak's terms.

Great to end to a fabulous season for Novak though. Three slams, six Masters and and WTF. Doesn't get much better than that.

Yep - If someone said it was the best year since Laver '69, you'd be hard pressed to argue against it.

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Post by paulcz Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:03 pm

socal1976 wrote:
paulcz wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I do agree because of fed's variety and unique style he poses the most consistent challenge to Novak but I feel people do get a bit carried away with some this 5-3 h2h. Yes it is impressive if you look at those wins: a win that proved almost meaningless in round robin play, and a win on super fast Dubai and Cincy. Legitametly, only Cincy can be seen as a big match for these two. Meanwhile Novak won IW, wimby, the USO, and the year end championship. It's been quite sometime since Roger won a truly big final at a slam against him. Still he is the toughest matchup really stylistically on a quick court because of how their games matchup and because no one else plays Roger's style anymore

Novak has become an awesome player who can up his game level in the biggest matches. Their round robin match was not important and Nole has evaluated it well, it was not worthy to play three setter at this stage. If there was Murray on the place of Novak, he would swear and vent all frustrations in that match. That shows the difference between these players.
It is incredible how Fed improved his game and he still seems to be a big force next year. But he is going to have tougher times at BO5 format. Novak Djokovic is surely the best player of this season and is going to be the strongest favorite for next year.


I think paul another thing that people miss is how much the new racquet for Fed has improved his backhand and serve. I think this another reason Federer has maintained at his age such parity of results. But again the big finals have for years now all gone Novak's way. I think he will win at least two slams maybe more next year. Credit to Roger for forcing Novak to adjust his game a bit. People just demand Fed gets into the net but if your opponent is hitting deep and running you side to side you can't do that. And it is more dangerous when your opponent can return and pass like Djokovic. So Fed couldn't do what he wanted and move in more because he wasn't allowed to.

Absolutely Socal.  If Stan had a Novak's return, then I could see their matches with Fed as more or less balanced and Stan could have an upper hand in their rallies. But Stan's return is quite poor and is his the biggest weakness, which allowed Fed to have really easy peasy serve games which  made  gradually a bigger and bigger  pressure to Stan's serve yesterday. It is a shame and Stan should work on it.

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Post by Born Slippy Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:26 am

Awesome again from Novak. Roger can't really get close to him when it really matters.

Poor tournament generally and with the Olympics next year it will fall even lower down the top players' priorities. Its a shame as its a great format and venue.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:24 am

paulcz wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
paulcz wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I do agree because of fed's variety and unique style he poses the most consistent challenge to Novak but I feel people do get a bit carried away with some this 5-3 h2h. Yes it is impressive if you look at those wins: a win that proved almost meaningless in round robin play, and a win on super fast Dubai and Cincy. Legitametly, only Cincy can be seen as a big match for these two. Meanwhile Novak won IW, wimby, the USO, and the year end championship. It's been quite sometime since Roger won a truly big final at a slam against him. Still he is the toughest matchup really stylistically on a quick court because of how their games matchup and because no one else plays Roger's style anymore

Novak has become an awesome player who can up his game level in the biggest matches. Their round robin match was not important and Nole has evaluated it well, it was not worthy to play three setter at this stage. If there was Murray on the place of Novak, he would swear and vent all frustrations in that match. That shows the difference between these players.
It is incredible how Fed improved his game and he still seems to be a big force next year. But he is going to have tougher times at BO5 format. Novak Djokovic is surely the best player of this season and is going to be the strongest favorite for next year.


I think paul another thing that people miss is how much the new racquet for Fed has improved his backhand and serve. I think this another reason Federer has maintained at his age such parity of results. But again the big finals have for years now all gone Novak's way. I think he will win at least two slams maybe more next year. Credit to Roger for forcing Novak to adjust his game a bit. People just demand Fed gets into the net but if your opponent is hitting deep and running you side to side you can't do that. And it is more dangerous when your opponent can return and pass like Djokovic. So Fed couldn't do what he wanted and move in more because he wasn't allowed to.

Absolutely Socal.  If Stan had a Novak's return, then I could see their matches with Fed as more or less balanced and Stan could have an upper hand in their rallies. But Stan's return is quite poor and is his the biggest weakness, which allowed Fed to have really easy peasy serve games which  made  gradually a bigger and bigger  pressure to Stan's serve yesterday. It is a shame and Stan should work on it.


Yep Stan for all his weapons is a generally poor returner at the highest levels of the game. Roger knows that Stan is going to chip the return off both sides most of the time therefore he can move in on almost every serve. He knows he doesn't have that luxury against Novak. That is my argument with people when they rate Stan's backhand as better than Novak's, I mean if you rate hitting winners from the middle of the court or from a relatively stationery position from the baseline Stan is superior. But what about pulled wide, what about hitting the pass while scrambling, or coming over the return. In these areas Novak's backhand destroys Stan's backhand. And against the best players you are going to hit more backhands scrambling wide or soaking up pressure than comfortable mid-court balls to whack for winners.

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