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Yawn...another Djokovic win

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Post by shivfan Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:07 am

He dominates men's tennis the way Serena rules women's tennis...the other men just can't compete at his level.

Djokovic won three of the four Grand Slams, and had his only blip in the French, where he lost to Wawrinka. Similar GS domination stats to Serena....

There's no variety among the men, an ageing Federer aside. They're all baseline bashers, again Federer aside, and from the baseline on anything other than clay, they just can't live with him. Novak, like Serena, has to play a bad match to lose to these guys....

The youngest player in the WTF was Nishikori at 25...there's just no youngsters able to challenge Djokovic right now.

Men's tennis has never been so boring...it's like watching Michael Schumacher in Formula One.
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Post by Belovedluckyboy Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:07 am

Why all the gloom? Fed is still playing, Stan is still playing well at the slams; Rafa is trying to play more inside the court and comes to the net more often, not being 'just a baseline ball basher'.

I like the way Kei plays too, coming to mid court and hitting aggressively from both wings CC and DTL, taking the ball so early. He reminds me of Davy, an updated version.

They have to stay healthy, esp Rafa and Kei, in order to take it to Novak. Rafa, Stan and Kei were the ones who beat Novak at the slams these past two seasons. Fed can still beat Novak on a quick court at the 500 and Masters - Dubai, Cincy, Shanghai.

I do believe 2016 will be more challenging for Novak. He did struggle at times during 2015 esp at the slams; imo its the period after the USO that he seems almost unbeatable, esp at Beijing and at indoors (Paris and WTF).

Oh, Anderson has improved his game so much that he's not just a big server. I think on his good day he can be a threat, he had pushed Fed, Novak and Rafa to the limit, he may take the next step and beat them one of these days, who knows.

Fedal did wrestle the no.1 ranking from Novak during these past five years (Fed in 2012 and Rafa in 2013/2014); unless there's still no one challenging Novak come next year, I don't think things are really that boring.

As for the youngsters, we may have to wait another two to three years for them to challenge for the top positions and at the slams (just my opinion).

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:45 am

Of course he can be beaten, and he will be. But not at the moment with the players we have unless they want to make some drastic changes to their game.
I thought Rafa was attempting to do that when I saw the way he played Andy.. taking the match to him and pushing him around.
Sadly he hadn't the confidence to do that against Novak .. doing what all Novak's opponents do.. letting him dictate the match. A baseline slugfest against Novak is a no brainer.

Only one player this year has shown how to play him and that was Dogopolov whio greatly unsettled Novak but sadly, because of his medical problems, did not have the stamina to finish the job.
Novak likes to suck his opponents into his game plan, and settles himself into a rhythm, Dogopolov playing the very unorthodox tennis he does, does not allow Novak to do this.
So unless we have an already established player who is prepared to take the risks required, or we have a new kid on the block, we are in for the same boring period we had with Sampras.. so I will be leaving tennis alone for a while if that's the case. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Erm

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:56 am

2012 - 4 different slam winners, including 1 first time winner
2013 - 3 different slam winners
2014 - 4 different slam winners, including 2 first time winners

But one year of a player dominating makes tennis boring?

It's odd to me how we can look back at McEnroe's 84, Connors' 74 or Borg's 79 and admire them but when Novak achieves similar numbers, it's the death of tennis.

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:12 pm

Headscratch Headscratch

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Post by Jahu Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:36 pm

HMM, no one likes Djoko, get over it.

And don't put Djoko in same sentence with McEnroe', Connors, Borg, Nadal or Fed  laughing

He will be forgotten the moment he quits tennis, as nuisance who interrupted Fed and Nadal's history making Smile
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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:51 pm

Jahu, your lust for Novak is making you crazy.

Take a cold shower.

heart  heart

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Post by Jahu Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:54 pm

Was that a public call to have a shower together?

Nasty papi  kiss
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:01 pm

HMM

Mac, Connors and Borg had an ongoing rivalry.. no comparison
there were players then, like Arthur Ashe, who beat Connors by changing his own game

Frankly at the moment, pardon the expression, but we do not have anyone who has the balls to attempt that.
In the meantime, with no disrespect to you or Novak, the tennis is stagnant and boring..not because of him, but because of the lack of opposition.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:02 pm

Jahu wrote:Was that a public call to have a shower together?

Nasty papi  kiss
I swore I'd never shower with you again after all that "dropping the soap" business you did last time...

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:06 pm

Even if people are tiring of Djoko's dominance they can at least admire his solidity and fitness. Comparisons with Sampras are obvious. Pete was not a flair player and some thought his domination of opponents and the rankings was boring. Sampras was just so efficient and served and volleyed so well that he was more mechanical than magnificent, more functional than fiery.
Djoko, too, has become the perfect machine and, thanks to his excellence, has made the game, for some, just a bit boring.
But tennis fans should not despair. There's always the next year, the next match, the next Slam, and the wait to see just how long Djoko can keep this up, what records he can break and who will eventually take over from him.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:07 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:HMM

Mac, Connors and Borg had an ongoing rivalry.. no comparison
there were players then, like Arthur Ashe, who beat Connors by changing his own game

Frankly at the moment, pardon the expression, but we do not have anyone who has the balls to attempt that.
In the meantime, with no disrespect to you or Novak, the tennis is stagnant and boring..not because of him, but because of the lack of opposition.
For one year only, I'm happy to see someone smash it and set a few records. Seasons like this don't come along very often, so I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

If next year is as dominant as this year, then I'll get bored.

But I don't think it will be. As a general rule, a tennis year hardly ever pans out as we expect it will at the end of the previous year.

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Post by Jahu Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:08 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
Jahu wrote:Was that a public call to have a shower together?

Nasty papi  kiss
I swore I'd never shower with you again after all that "dropping the soap" business you did last time...

Can't remember you complaining while I chased the soap on the shower floor...

Stop now, before it gets all slippery here Laugh

Enjoy the Djoko year Smile
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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:16 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:HMM

Mac, Connors and Borg had an ongoing rivalry.. no comparison
there were players then, like Arthur Ashe, who beat Connors by changing his own game

Frankly at the moment, pardon the expression, but we do not have anyone who has the balls to attempt that.
In the meantime, with no disrespect to you or Novak, the tennis is stagnant and boring..not because of him, but because of the lack of opposition.
For one year only, I'm happy to see someone smash it and set a few records. Seasons like this don't come along very often, so I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

If next year is as dominant as this year, then I'll get bored.

But I don't think it will be. As a general rule, a tennis year hardly ever pans out as we expect it will at the end of the previous year.

Yes HMM do enjoy it.. he will hit a brick wall one day for sure.
But until, and I challenge you to read the match report of Ashe v Conors, we have a player who had his guts then Novak will bask in he glory for some while.. I was hoping it might be Rafa with his new found confidence and he has tweeked his game, but.. Sad

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Post by Guest82 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:27 pm

If someone had told me after US Open 2013 that Rafa would only win one slam out of the next 8, then I wouldn't have believed them.

It can all change very quickly.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:32 pm

Guest82 wrote:If someone had told me after US Open 2013 that Rafa would only win one slam out of the next 8, then I wouldn't have believed them.

It can all change very quickly.

I couldn't agree more, and Im hoping Rafa will find even more form than at present and be the one to do it. But even so prior to that Novak had discovered the way to neutralise Rafa then other players jumped on the band wagon.. now Rafa needs to turn the tables,. He can do it, Im sure, but whether he has regained enough of the old Rafa's confidence remains to be seen.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:33 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Yes HMM do enjoy it.. he will hit a brick wall one day for sure.
But until, and I challenge you to read the match report of Ashe v Conors,   we have a player who had his guts then Novak will bask in he glory for some while.. I was hoping it might be Rafa with his new found confidence   and he has tweeked his game, but.. Sad
Even if Novak's level doesn't drop, I don't think he will be as dominant simply because I don't think so much will go his way again.

With the exception of Roland Garros (where he suffered some appalling scheduling), all the luck from draws, to rest days, to weather conditions, to intangibles in matches went his way.

It's will only take a small drop in form and a couple of things to go against him and a dominant season is reduced to a merely very good one.

The margins are narrow at the top.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:40 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Yes HMM do enjoy it.. he will hit a brick wall one day for sure.
But until, and I challenge you to read the match report of Ashe v Conors,   we have a player who had his guts then Novak will bask in he glory for some while.. I was hoping it might be Rafa with his new found confidence   and he has tweeked his game, but.. Sad
Even if Novak's level doesn't drop, I don't think he will be as dominant simply because I don't think so much will go his way again.

With the exception of Roland Garros (where he suffered some appalling scheduling), all the luck from draws, to rest days, to weather conditions, to intangibles in matches went his way.

It's will only take a small drop in form and a couple of things to go against him and a dominant season is reduced to a merely very good one.

The margins are narrow at the top.

Yes I fully understand what you say.. whilst miles ahead of  the rest of the field his position is tenuous however good he is he will continually be watching his back.. I know that it is harder to be hunted than be the hunter and I feel that Rafa will do everything possible to regain the FO crown and deny Novak again.. a double edged sword which I know will hurt Novak but give Rafa back the hold he needs. If Rafa cannot become more of a threat to Novak during the clay court season then he will not be a threat at all.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:43 pm

Yes, it's hard to see Djoko being QUITE so successful next year, although he'd no doubt be willing to relinquish some titles as long as he secured the French.
  Just as Rafa had a lean GS time after his excellent 2013, Djoko, you must remember, only won three of the next TWELVE slams after his 2011 annus mirabilis.
  HM's analysis above is spot on. I just wonder, for example, what might have happened in the Djoko-Anderson Wimbledon match this year if it had been played out on the one day.

PS - following Haddie's post above which I'd not seen. Yes, the French could be the key to the whole year. Likely as not Rafa will be high enough in the rankings by then to avoid a possible q-f meeting.


Last edited by sirfredperry on Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding PS)

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:48 pm

The OP is parodying some of the arguments used against women's tennis with the inference being that there is some hypocrisy in some of the criticism of women's tennis.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:50 pm

I don't think Dolgo was the only one to unsettle Novak this year. Anderson at Wimbledon, Stan at FO, Fed on the quicker courts, even Murray at AO and at Miami and Montreal - like I said, Novak wasn't as formidable as his 2011 but he's certainly more resilient.

His game has certainly improved over the last four years - serves better, volleys better, his transition to the net is better now, able to take slices and change of pace better. I do feel that in 2011 he was able to play consistently well throughout his matches, or not much dips in level during matches. Perhaps he's physically in tip top condition then and obviously has grown older now and has more mileage on his legs and body.



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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:52 pm

Rafa acknowledged after his match with Novak at the WTF that what Novak was doing was amazing, what a fantastic year he has had and "at the moment he is unbeatable" but went on to say that it will be difficult to maintain it.

As we have said nothing can last forever but he has earned the accolades he is getting.  Now come on the rest  we need one of you, or a newcomer, to rattle the Serbian's cage Wink

If only to have some other players to talk about instead of the top 5

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:58 pm

Shivfan with his parody actually raises some interesting points (inferred rather than raised):

This is arguably Djokovic finest season with three grand slam titles and a runners up position (aged 28).

This is arguably Serena's finest season with three grand slam titles and a semi-final position. Furthermore Serena was on target for a calendar slam.  

Furthermore Serena is the same age as Roger Federer 34.  If Federer had had the season Serena had the world of tennis would have exploded with astonishment. Not quite the same reaction for Serena and women's tennis in general.


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Post by HM Murdock Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:59 pm

sirfredperry wrote:I just wonder, for example, what might have happened in the Djoko-Anderson Wimbledon match this year if it had been played out on the one day.
In that one set shoot out that they had the next day, Novak hadn't got anywhere near Anderson's serve for 5 games and had faced 2 BPs on his own serve.

Then out of the blue, Anderson coughs up 2 double faults in a row, giving Novak a break point which he took.

Credit to Novak for his battling qualities but that game was a gift that fell in his lap.

These are the things that go a player's way when they notch up numbers like Novak has this year. Change the result of that one game, and maybe the whole season looks different.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 23 Nov 2015, 2:16 pm

To take Haddie's point about the outside-the-top five players. If my maths is correct there will be 31 players over the age of 30 in the top 100 at the end of this season.
 If you chuck in those aged 28 or more, more than half (51 if I'm correct) of the top 100 will be 28 or more. There are just three teenagers and not many early-20 somethings. Now, you could argue that players are maturing later these days (Stan, Anderson) but it's seven years since a teenager won a tournament and hardly any youngsters seem to be coming through.


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Post by Belovedluckyboy Mon 23 Nov 2015, 2:25 pm

.and its ten years since a teenager won a slam!

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 23 Nov 2015, 2:30 pm

BlB - Rafa was a physical phenomenon when he won his teenage Slam. I recall Murray saying some years back that he did not think he was physically strong enough to win a Slam. But you'd at least expect a teenager to come close to winning a minor, best-of-three, tournament.
Now if Coric or Kakki kick on and Kyrgios gets his head straight.....

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 2:48 pm

sirfredperry wrote:To take Haddie's point about the outside-the-top five players. If my maths is correct there will be 31 players over the age of 30 in the top 100 at the end of this season.
 If you chuck in those aged 28 or more, more than half (51 if I'm correct) of the top 100 will be 20 or more. There are just three teenagers and not many early-20 somethings. Now, you could argue that players are maturing later these days (Stan, Anderson) but it's seven years since a teenager won a tournament and hardly any youngsters seem to be coming through.

Wow now I hadn't done the maths but I was aware of that it seemed more and more mature players were improving rather than declining. It does honestly say something about todays game.
So is it that the young ones are not prepared to put in the work required, less committed or less talented? Headscratch

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 23 Nov 2015, 3:29 pm

Haddie - that should have read 51 being 28 years of age or more. Don't seem to be many (around 5) teenagers between 101 and 200, either.
Kyle Edmund (20) is in 100th place.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon 23 Nov 2015, 4:02 pm

Well now you see why Roger, Novak, and Rafa have been so consistently good... the work and dedication that has gone into their careers has been well earned and well rewarded. Young players have much to look up to.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 5:59 pm

I personally am really enjoying Novak's success and find the tennis being played and the level of it to be quite awe inspiring. I mean both guys were hitting remarkable shots in that final and in particular Djokovic. That FH he hit like a laser in the corner of the baseline the ridiculous cross court backhand pass, and some jaw dropping returners. People like what they like, I am comfortable in that my taste may not be a majority position.

Whether it is good for the game or not I think in general Novak is a big plus for the game. And the animosity he seems to engender in certain circles online is not reflected by most fans of the sport or sports at large in the world. The guy has done remarkably well and been a very good ambassador for the game. I find the style of play today much more intriguing than prior periods where there was on overemphasis on attack and plethora of short point tennis. Wimbeldon in the 90s was basically unwatchable. In terms of competition level I think Novak has a pretty strong field of talented and watchable players who are also winners to compete against.

This whole issue about the ageing of the tennis star I think is just a reflection of sports medicine and training improvements that are extending careers and allowing the old pros to hold on for awhile longer. The young guys will breakthrough and bring something enjoyable and new when they do, the process may simply take longer. I mean SFP put up a good post that showed that no teenagers are winning tournaments anymore. That doesn't automatically mean they are not talented or not good enough, I mean are all of them deficient? I think it just means that the threshold has been lifted professionally and it takes them longer to apprentice before they are ready to be masters themselves. If anything these trends are good and not negative developments.

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Post by slashermcguirk Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:16 pm

Disagree that it is boring. Granted djokovic is on another level but no different to when federer dominated pre nadal emerging. Also do you remember the mid 90s - mid 2000s. Non stop aces and players like kraijeck and ivanisevic winning smacks with just a big serve.

Would take djokovic, federer, nadal, Murray, nishikori, wawrinka and co any day ahead of that booming serve boredom!

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Post by temporary21 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 6:50 pm

I seem to be the only guy who likes watching him play. I like his fh. He IS too defensive sometimes but on the attack he's great

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Post by socal1976 Mon 23 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

No temporary, the not so vocal majority in sports and in tennis in general enjoy watching him play.

@Slasher, fully agree watching Sampras play Goran at Wimbeldon Circa 1998 or 97 was basically like watching an ace contest. I find the longer points frankly to be exciting and this idea that every point is a 10 or 20 shot rally is highly overstated. Or the idea that everyone plays one way. They are all base line oriented in general but there is a lot of different variations in shots, styles, and personalities.

Goes back to what I am saying about Djokovic. The people who claim he is boring are really people who just don't like the fact that he is beating Roger and Rafa anymore. His shotmaking is pretty damn exciting. Not just his defense but the variety and precision of his entire attack. But it is easier to just say, oh I don't like his style or antics as opposed to saying I don't like him because he beat by my favorite player.

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Post by Henman Bill Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:09 pm

If the article really is about women's tennis I think I missed it, but now that you mention it, it could be...I hadn't considered who posted it....
..I don't watch much women's tennis but I think over the years the strength in depth and the quality in the ranking positions #20-50 has improved. However, Serena excepted, there has been some variable let's say quality in the #1-4 positions or so.
It's not fair to criticize the players in the #1-4 positions for this though: although it is true that a limit of really great talents have emerged post Williams/Hingis (and maybe Henin/Clijsters).

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Post by paulcz Mon 23 Nov 2015, 11:15 pm

Glad to seeing a couple fans of Novak here OK
Novak raised tennis level higher due to Fed and Stan this year. I agree with a statement that if Novak won RG, he would not have had such a great season. He is made from spartanian material and by the help of his incredibly flexible body, his strong mentality, ultra fast reactions and great body efficiency he has many ways how to play with his opponents. If you have a good eye for watching the game, you can recognize his improvements, whether he just tries some new things on the court or wants to dismantle his opponents. I hope and think that he will try more a kind of S&V pattern on hard courts as Boris surely wants to see it and his FH swinging is going to get more loosened and a bit more powerful as he gets a bit more muscles. He has the great team behind his back and when staying healthy he has still a good potential to be a couple of years at the top of the game. The great player as well as the man.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Tue 24 Nov 2015, 3:47 am

If he add in muscles there goes his flexibility, you cant have it both ways. His FH is already good enough even if it cant be compared to Fed's or Rafa's at their best, or even Delpo's in terms of sheer power.

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Post by temporary21 Tue 24 Nov 2015, 4:24 am

He doesnt need power, the improvements to his serve this year has made it a delivery close to as effective as fed, it makes him unbeatable a lot of the time to the current tour.

His main work to improve will be to take the slice and the short slice better.

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Post by CAS Tue 24 Nov 2015, 2:38 pm

I think Novak has suffered from the fact that Federer and Nadal were portrayed as quite godly and then Novak came almost out of nowhere cosidering how he played in 09 and 10 and made them look mortal. I think a lot of tennis fans didn't like that. He also sufferes because Federer is in the twilight of his career so he gets a lot of support, and crowds do love an underdog, put that together and they are all for the old legend.

I think Novak will get support in a few years when he dips a bit and needs the crowd to lift him, he's proven he doesn't need that support at the moment.

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Post by Henman Bill Tue 24 Nov 2015, 2:40 pm

I will be amazed if Novak goes to serve and volley on any surface.

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Post by paulcz Tue 24 Nov 2015, 6:15 pm

Henman Bill wrote:I will be amazed if Novak goes to serve and volley on any surface.

Don't get me wrong, he will never become a classic a S&V player, but he will also need to shorten his serve games when getting older. He does it rarely against top players and occasionally when playing against weaker players. I am convinced that his serve and improved volleys and overheads are good enough to try it more often. Boris must pick on Nole and surely they will work on it in the next future.

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue 24 Nov 2015, 8:01 pm

I think some of the criticism of Djokovic and his game comes from the fact fans of rival players are butthurt.
I found Djokovic much more of a pleasure to watch before 2011, fact. A lot of it is just to do with the subconscious mind; if Djokovic loses to Federer in 2 Slam finals and Nadal in 2 others, the forum's attitude towards him will become a lot friendlier. Apart from Jahu maybe.

Djokovic's game in many ways is a perfect balance; but also in many ways is easy to attack by butthurt fans of rivals. It isn't particularly unorthodox (a way better version of Ferrer?), and he controls the rallies with accuracy; to an extent he doesn't need to pull off great defensive shots regularly as someone like Nadal is forced too, and also does not need to inject pace (which is inherently risky) like Federer does.

A quote from a butthurt Federer fan who was watching the WTF Final with me, after Djokovic won the first set:
'Why is Federer losing? Can you actually remember anything that Djokovic has even done in this match? When Federer ever lost to Nadal, I got angry, Nadal hit shots that made me angry. With this, there isn't even anything that I can remember to get angry with.'

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Post by HM Murdock Tue 24 Nov 2015, 9:23 pm

IMBL, I don't know if you are eating an extra Weetabix or something, but you are knocking it out of the park recently!

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Post by CAS Tue 24 Nov 2015, 9:57 pm

That last quote from your Federer friend is so accurate, Nadal would make me crazy. Novak seems to just win points so quietly throughout a match, forced errors, immense efficiency etc.

Rafa I would feel was lucky on certain points, of course he wasn't as he did it far too many points but it was infuriating!

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:23 pm

HM Murdock wrote:IMBL, I don't know if you are eating an extra Weetabix or something, but you are knocking it out of the park recently!
Haha thank you very much HM thumbsup

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Post by socal1976 Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:26 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:I think some of the criticism of Djokovic and his game comes from the fact fans of rival players are butthurt.
I found Djokovic much more of a pleasure to watch before 2011, fact. A lot of it is just to do with the subconscious mind; if Djokovic loses to Federer in 2 Slam finals and Nadal in 2 others, the forum's attitude towards him will become a lot friendlier. Apart from Jahu maybe.

Djokovic's game in many ways is a perfect balance; but also in many ways is easy to attack by butthurt fans of rivals. It isn't particularly unorthodox (a way better version of Ferrer?), and he controls the rallies with accuracy; to an extent he doesn't need to pull off great defensive shots regularly as someone like Nadal is forced too, and also does not need to inject pace (which is inherently risky) like Federer does.

A quote from a butthurt Federer fan who was watching the WTF Final with me, after Djokovic won the first set:
'Why is Federer losing? Can you actually remember anything that Djokovic has even done in this match? When Federer ever lost to Nadal, I got angry, Nadal hit shots that made me angry. With this, there isn't even anything that I can remember to get angry with.'  

I agree a great post here by IMBL. This goes back to something that Born Slippy said that I wanted to write on as well. He said that Djokovic's abilities were very subtle and it takes a rather seasoned viewer to truly get his strengths. That is why we often hear these things like how he wins these routine points through forced errors and how his game lacks weapons etc. These criticisms are often overstated but one thing that you and BS both address is that his dominance comes about with more subtlety than the more flashy and lets say unique or unorthodox styles of Federer or Nadal or some other greats.

Novak doesn't hit the one huge FH or Serve that sticks out with a plethora of one shot winners. His best shots the BH and the return are really more set up shots, as opposed to one shot knockout puncher he is more like a combination puncher who packs a punch but usually wins more through cumulative affect. He beats opponents with a thousand little cuts instead of chopping their head off. His ability to move on the run forces players to hit into smaller and smaller spaces, his return neutralizes the opponent's ability to get free points off serve. In short, his two best weapons are counterpunches or set up shots. I think people watch Djokovic win a set 6-1 against a top guy and they wonder why the other guy is playing badly and what exactly is Novak doing that is leading to this whipping. But someone who understands the various subtle pressures of the early ball striking, depth, change of direction, defense, and constantly making your opponent hit uncomfortable shots from places he doesn't want to be can really enjoy what he is doing. And you understand how this type of constant scrambling and looking for anyway to finish off points can just completely unnerve an opponent.

But there are a lot of butthurt Fed and Nadal fans who will never like the guy or give him credit. That is fine, as a Djokovic fan that is the biggest compliment they are capable of giving anyway.

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue 24 Nov 2015, 10:44 pm

CAS wrote:That last quote from your Federer friend is so accurate, Nadal would make me crazy. Novak seems to just win points so quietly throughout a match,  forced errors, immense efficiency etc.

Rafa I would feel was lucky on certain points, of course he wasn't as he did it far too many points but it was infuriating!


I can imagine; Nadal and Federer are such polar opposites in the way they play I can work out why everything I liked about Nadal's game could be a reason for Federer fans to dislike him.
I would say this though, I really think tennis needs someone to find something new to trouble Djokovic. Not just a rival who plays like him (i.e. if Murray stepped it up), but a player who can work out a weakness somewhere in Djokovic's game and exploit it.
Federer is too old I think to have the stamina in BO5 (for me has has to win in 3 or very quick 4 sets which is some task), Murray is in Djokovic's shadows, Nadal seems to be past his peak, and Stan is mainly inconsistent but can redline sometimes.

Who can bring something new that troubles Djokovic, or will the only threat to him be himself in the next few years ? Bogbrush argued it will be someone with the power to hit through Djokovic- I agree; needs to not only have a big serve but be able to redline from the baseline under pressure. Kyrgios ? Tomic ? When I went to the O2 I saw Zverev win the young player award.

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Post by temporary21 Wed 25 Nov 2015, 12:40 am

Its a good point, a lot of it goes under the radar, I didnt even realise, despite watching the whole thing that Novak only lost 3 second serve points ALL MATCH!
Did you guys notice that when watching? Hes become a great all rounded player, who more than anyone ive seen squeezes the life out of opponents,

one bad point or one 0-15, game over.

The way to beat him is somewhat what Roger does, you need a big baseline shot, but you then HAVE to rush into the net and finish, it wont be an easy volley, wed need a proper volleyer to do it.

Fed has the volleys, but his bh doesnt really have the power, its exploitable, and he doesnt cover it well enough anymore.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Wed 25 Nov 2015, 1:47 am

I think Alex Zverev in time to come can do that, ie he can hit big baseline shot but does have the speed to rush into the net too. The boy is so quick despite his height and can hit with depth and isn't afraid to come to the net. I like him and his game, i think he'll do better than Kygrios going forward. Oh, Zverev is good on all surfaces too.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Wed 25 Nov 2015, 1:54 am

I miss Delpo, the way he played at Shanghai 2013, that's the type of game that could trouble Novak on quick HCs.

I would think a big server/hitter like Anderson on a good day could trouble Novak too on grass. On clay I do think Rafa and Stan could do the job.

I do feel its on the HCs that Novak is almost invincible. If not for a Fed on quick HCs, Novak may have a clean sweep of all the HC important titles. We need someone who could play well on quick HCs, not many I can find once Fed is not there.

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