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Leinster v Ulster, 27 November

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Leinster v Ulster, 27 November Empty Leinster v Ulster, 27 November

Post by George Carlin Wed 25 Nov 2015, 5:38 am

Leinster v Ulster, 27 November Leinst11             Leinster v Ulster, 27 November Ulster11
Leinster Rugby v Ulster Rugby
Friday 27 November 2015
KO 19:35
RDS Arena, Dublin

Live on TG4/BBC NI

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 46th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Andy Brace, Olly Hodges (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eugene Ryan (IRFU)
TMO: Dermot Moloney (IRFU)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
21 Wins 5
5 Losses 21
2 Draws 2
600 Points 406

B. Form

Sat 3 January 2015
Leinster Rugby 24 - 11 Ulster Rugby

Fri 24 April 2015
Ulster Rugby 26 - 10 Leinster Rugby

C. Teams

Leinster Rugby
Leinster v Ulster, 27 November Andrew10
15 Rob Kearney, 14 Zane Kirchner, 13 Ben Te'o, 12 Ian Madigan, 11 Luke Fitzgerald, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Luke McGrath, 8 Jamie Heaslip (c), 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 Rhys Ruddock, 5 Mike McCarthy, 4 Devin Toner, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Sean Cronin, 1 Jack McGrath

Replacements: 16 James Tracy, 17 Peter Dooley, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Dominic Ryan, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Noel Reid, 23 Garry Ringrose

Ulster Rugby
Leinster v Ulster, 27 November Kennet10
15 Peter Nelson, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Stuart McCloskey, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Nick Williams, 7 Sean Reidy, 6 Robbie Diack, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Wiehahn Herbst, 2 Rory Best (c), 1 Kyle McCall

Replacements: 16 Rob Herring, 17 Andrew Warwick, 18 Ricky Lutton, 19 Roger Wilson, 20 Chris Henry, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Ian Humphreys, 23 Louis Ludik


Last edited by George Carlin on Mon 30 Nov 2015, 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Pete330v2 Wed 25 Nov 2015, 12:19 pm

Thanks George once again for beating us all to it Smile

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed 25 Nov 2015, 4:19 pm

Irish officials in charge of a fixture containing the provinces. Watch some of 606v2 get up in arms soon when they realise that this fixture guarantees that at least one province will not lose the match.

Surprised the head to head is so much in Leinster's favour. Reckon Ulster claw back a game in the overall stats come Friday.

Will be interesting to see what teams get put out for this fixture. If Ulster put out near full strength this match is there for the taking.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 25 Nov 2015, 4:23 pm

Correct. Lacy will show just how incompetent he is by letting Ulster win. And he'll show how biased he is by almost letting Leinster steal it in the end.

Basterde!

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Post by Pete330v2 Thu 26 Nov 2015, 9:33 am

Every official on duty for this match is on the IRFU payroll, surely that's enough to get the comedy members of this site up in arms Smile
All I ask for this fixture is an Ulster win and no picture of that flippin Bleakley woman. We Ulster fans deserve better.

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Post by geoff999rugby Thu 26 Nov 2015, 10:36 am

Agreed as a full bloody hetrosexual I still consider Kenneth Branagh better looking then her Laugh

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Post by rodders Thu 26 Nov 2015, 11:27 am

Ulster 19 - Lacy... I mean Leinster 21
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Post by clivemcl Thu 26 Nov 2015, 12:35 pm

(15-9): Peter Nelson, Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Ruan Pienaar; (1-8): Kyle McCall, Rory Best (captain), Wiehahn Herbst, Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Robbie Diack, Sean Reidy, Nick Williams;
Replacements (16-23): Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Ricky Lutton, Roger Wilson, Chris Henry, Paul Marshall, Ian Humphreys, Louis Ludik.

Not sure if I'm glad Kiss is mixing things up to make players fight harder, or annoyed he isn't fielding what most would say is strongest 15...

Any fellow Ulster supporters able to tell me good reasons why Henry and Ludik and Warwick are on the bench? Headscratch

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Post by Pete330v2 Thu 26 Nov 2015, 1:04 pm

Once again I can only imagine McCall has earned his place over Warwick who has only just recovered from a broken jaw (I think????). I think Nelson has proved himself worthy of the starting lineup and Henry I can only imagine needs to earn the shirt after a bland performance last week.

This is all of course conjecture by myself Smile

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Post by Pete330v2 Thu 26 Nov 2015, 1:05 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed as a full bloody hetrosexual I still consider Kenneth Branagh better looking then her Laugh

I'm glad it's not just me Geoff, I think Kenny Branagh is more feminine looking for starters Smile

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Post by SecretFly Thu 26 Nov 2015, 2:19 pm

Well he is the Lord of the Luvvies these days Wink

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Post by Guest Thu 26 Nov 2015, 2:53 pm

clivemcl wrote:(15-9): Peter Nelson, Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Ruan Pienaar; (1-8): Kyle McCall, Rory Best (captain), Wiehahn Herbst, Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Robbie Diack, Sean Reidy, Nick Williams;
Replacements (16-23): Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Ricky Lutton, Roger Wilson, Chris Henry, Paul Marshall, Ian Humphreys, Louis Ludik.

Not sure if I'm glad Kiss is mixing things up to make players fight harder, or annoyed he isn't fielding what most would say is strongest 15...

Any fellow Ulster supporters able to tell me good reasons why Henry and Ludik and Warwick are on the bench?  Headscratch

Happy with Nelson starting. Regardless if he is the better option, Ludik will likely be moving on at the end of season, and Nelson will then be second to Piutau. So it makes sense he gets the game time.
Some might disagree, but I would like to have seen Herbst benched. He's a penalty machine at the scrum. Other sides have figured out that if the scrum takes a step back, he will fall flat on his face.

Also happy with McCall starting. He's a player that's shown a bit of promise, and I think a better option than Black. Warwick has fallen off form a bit, and hopefully with a bit of game time he can get back on track.

Not sure what the thinking is with the backrow. Henry need a rest? Diack looked good in his last start. Showed a bit of dog. Very unusual for him, but hopefully he can be that bit more aggressive consistently. Reidy? Average so far, but think he is slowly improving.

Humphrey's picard

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Post by Notch Thu 26 Nov 2015, 4:17 pm

I have rarely felt more dejected leaving Ravenhill than I did after last weeks game. I think Saracens are above and beyond any team in this league on that performance, but we've dropped so many points on the road and our European start has been such a nightmare that suddenly we desperately need something to kickstart our season, something to build upon. Leinster are equally desperate- and they have been equally desperate in terms of their recent form too. Makes it interesting. Resting O'Brien and Healy and selecting Van der Flier is the right call for them in terms of form. Some players are clearly still adjusting to coming back from the World Cup on both sides and O'Brien and Healy would be two of the most prominent- really Healy wasn't great at the World Cup either. It's my feeling that includes Henry and Henderson for us.

I am glad to see McCall and Nelson getting opportunities this season. I think both are talented players who were being allowed to wither on the vine. I am concerned the same thing is happening to O'Connor and hoping he is selected on the bench some time soon. McCall had a fantastic game for us down in Dublin at tight head and then he was mysteriously disappeared. After that very promising performance it's astounding he's not played more often- and hopefully we don't make the same mistake with O'Connor.
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Post by Guest Thu 26 Nov 2015, 4:41 pm

Last weeks game has dampened the enthusiasm a bit, but hopefully the Leinster game will give us all a lift, and for both sets of supporters.

Should be a good game. Both sides have something to prove, and if Ulster can manage an away win it will go a long way to helping ensure a top 6 finish.

Agree on O'Connor. Hopefully see him getting some game time soon.

Anyway, we all need to cheer up. We're not as bad as last week, and we have reason to believe we will be better than we have been, over the last year.

Cheer up Yahoo

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 26 Nov 2015, 5:22 pm

LEINSTER

15. Rob Kearney
14. Zane Kirchner
13. Ben Te'o
12. Ian Madigan
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Luke McGrath
1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rhys Ruddock
7, Josh van der Flier
8. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

Replacements

16. James Tracy
17. Peter Dooley
18. Martin Moore
19. Ross Molony
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Noel Reid
23. Garry Ringrose

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 26 Nov 2015, 5:44 pm

Good to see Rob back. Cullen takes puts Madigan into the centre, good move. Has Luke on the wing, potentially good move. Starts Luke at scrum half, good move. Starts Furlong and VanDerFlier, both good moves.

I like the balance of our back row better this week.

I'd argue Ringrose has done plenty to deserve to be on the field.

Ryan and Molony make a decent bench.

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Post by ShanesBridge77 Thu 26 Nov 2015, 9:54 pm

It will not come as surprise given how often Ulster use the option but you'd expect McCloskey running at Madigan to be potentially fruitful.

I cannot agree more with Notch about how worrying last Friday looked. After 30 mins we looked decidedly second rate.

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Post by rodders Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:04 am

Mccloskey has been a lot less effective recently - whether he's just being targeted more or it's Ulsters tactics and lack of ball carriers but he's just been trucking it up and not making the gains he was of finding those offloads he was last season - I'd like to see him stepping a bit more too rather than just looking for contact and trying to bulldozer people.

Looking at the weather this one will come down to the packs I'd say. Leinster look a lot stronger in the back row to me.

Both sides need a big performance here to stop the rot.

Madigan getting the nod is obviously a last ditch effort to stop him going to Quins.... Wink
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Post by marty2086 Fri 27 Nov 2015, 10:10 am

rodders wrote:
Madigan getting the nod is obviously a last ditch effort to stop him going to Quins.... Wink

Seen a suggestion yesterday he may be heading South Run

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Post by rodders Fri 27 Nov 2015, 10:17 am

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Madigan getting the nod is obviously a last ditch effort to stop him going to Quins.... Wink

Seen a suggestion yesterday he may be heading South Run

His career is heading south anyways.... Run
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Post by geoff999rugby Fri 27 Nov 2015, 10:18 am

I don't think getting selected is going to persuade him turn down, an alledged, extra 420 euro a year

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Post by George Carlin Fri 27 Nov 2015, 5:59 pm

So who is going to win then?
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Post by Guest Fri 27 Nov 2015, 6:29 pm

Have to think it will be Leinster, George. As rodders said, they have the stronger backrow, and I think that, the fact that it's their home game, and the weather conditions will get them the win. Still think it will be tight though, and not completely without hope that Ulster can grab a win.

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 7:35 pm

Fingers crossed/
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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 7:40 pm

So far Herbst has been mullered in a scrum and given away a totally needless penalty- he can only get better from here you'd hope.
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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 7:48 pm

Every time Diack carries he's getting absolutely smashed... Jackson really needs this one...
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Post by clivemcl Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:07 pm

Diack getting his ass handed to him tonight...

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:08 pm

Leinster just butchered that. Big let off.
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Post by clivemcl Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:15 pm

Important lineout steal!

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:20 pm

It's very hard to see us getting anything from this game tbh. When we're on the back foot, we haven't been able to relieve the pressure with our kicking. We aren't really causing any issues to them on the rare occasions we do have territory and possession. And our scrum is on the back foot.

5 points is actually not a bad deficit from our point of view because Leinster have been dominant. They should be further in front, but we're hanging in there and fighting hard at least.
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Post by clivemcl Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:22 pm

Agree with all of tgat...but... somehow it's only 8-3. So who knows...

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Post by neilthom7 Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:32 pm

OK so 5 points down at half time isn't too bad but we need to get much better in this half

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Post by Guest Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:34 pm

We have done well defensively to keep the score down, but as bodies get tired the games going to open up. If Leinster maintain the dominance of the first half, they could run away with this in the third quarter, if not before.

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Post by clivemcl Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:37 pm

Major let off there

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 8:43 pm

I can't believe they blew that one. But if the game continues like this we could lose by 20 points. You don't see teams defend like this for sixty minutes and then sneak it. Now we're conceding line breaks, its only a matter of time until they break us down and I just can't see what threat we're offering in return.
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Post by neilthom7 Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:00 pm

How we aren't more down right now is an actual miracle

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:11 pm

Two bad teams.

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:16 pm

Frak sake Marshall
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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:23 pm

Feel like Ulster are improving somewhat, but there's too many average players in this team. We should have lost by more in truth.

We need to seriously shore up our breakdown, but thats nothing new. Our phase play isn't in any danger of hurting teams either.

Pretty depressing, discipline is improved and the attitude is very good but... there's very little threat.
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Post by clivemcl Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:26 pm

Seriously Ulster if you had just gone and lost in dull anti climax, sure I'd be annoyed but probably in a 'ah well' sort of way. But why oh why did you have to play like that in the last few minutes? Now I'm furious. I could accept it if I thought we just weren't very good right now. But you just showed us what you are capable of. But also given major question marks over why the majority of the game was so lathargic and stale. steam

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Post by Guest Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:27 pm

Happy with the bonus point.

Thought Tuohy looked close to his old self. McCall had a good game. Lutton did well when he came on. Best played well.

Still far too many mistakes from us, and still fairly toothless in attack.

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Post by Notch Fri 27 Nov 2015, 9:32 pm

So far this season we're played 9, won 4, lost 5.

I don't see where the improvement is going to come from. We have quality from 9 to 15 but a very mediocre pack apart from just 2 or 3 players.
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Post by Marshes Sat 28 Nov 2015, 2:12 pm

Any chance Van Der Flier Could be looking at a call-up come February?

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Post by profitius Sat 28 Nov 2015, 3:03 pm

I actually thought it was a decent enough game. Ulster had a slight chance to win even though Leinster always looked in control up front.


Marshes wrote:Any chance Van Der Flier Could be looking at a call-up come February?


He should be nailed on if he continues his current form.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 30 Nov 2015, 11:00 am

Think it would be stretching things for VDF to get a call up. He has been playing very well though and it would give some of the more established names a well deserved kick up the rearend.

Felt like Leinster left at least 14 points on the pitch during the game. Was it held up over the line twice, Teo horror knock on in the corner and a butchered left to right passing phase 5 metres out as well in the first half.

Nucifora needs to flex some authority, flankers need to be shared out from Leinster. There is too much quality on the bench not getting a chance to compete for the blue jersey let alone the green jersey. It's also bordering on criminal that Ross, Furlong and Moore are all at Leinster and are arguably the first 3 names on the TH depth chart. Given Ross is at the end of his career, I can understand two of those staying in Blue, but the third not even being on a bench for important games is a serious concern.

Reid getting injured should give both Madigan and Ringrose more certainty in their game time and positions for the next while.

All these rumours about Madigan are interesting. Is it the standard babble from the agent before they do the contract negotiations? Or are the rumours around Henshaw more than just that? If I was Madigan and I looked at Sexton at 10, and Ringrose with Henshaw in midfield with two kearneys, Isa and Kelleher at the 15 position then I'd be looking to move now while I'm marketable instead of in 2 years when I'm only seen as a roll option.

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Post by rodders Mon 30 Nov 2015, 11:09 am

Very poor game between two poorly coached sides. Van Der Flier apart it was dire - somehow Fitz got his obligatory MOTM ahead of VDF and Ruddock.

I hope Piutau wasn't watching because he'll be buying out his own contract never mid wasps if he's been watching Ulster lately - we look like we could have played for a week without scoring.

The window wiper back play apart, the pack and back row are a major concern. Leinster have been beasted in the RCC two weeks running and they were comfortably on top in the pack.

At this point I'd be worrying about even getting in the RCC next year.
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Post by marty2086 Mon 30 Nov 2015, 11:44 am

rodders wrote:
I hope Piutau wasn't watching because he'll be buying out his own contract never mid wasps if he's been watching Ulster lately - we look like we could have played for a week without scoring.

He's on Rugby Tonight, tonight. I'm sure they'll ask him about Ulster, it'll be interesting to see what he has to say

rodders wrote:
At this point I'd be worrying about even getting in the RCC next year.

The next three rounds are huge, theres a bit of a gap opened up and Dragons, Blues, Zebre and Treviso could begin to get cut adrift assuming Ospreys start to come good and close the gap the pressure will really be on. The next three games are against teams above us, if we can pick up double figures and with Glasgow and Edinburgh playing each other twice in that period we can jump up the table and maybe build confidence, especially if Kiss can sort a few things out.

A lot of ifs involved though

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Nov 2015, 6:29 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Think it would be stretching things for VDF to get a call up.  He has been playing very well though and it would give some of the more established names a well deserved kick up the rearend.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. One of the main things about him that has impressed me is just his sheer work rate. He has certainly set the standard so that those established names you mention can no longer be as complacent. Well, I say that, but the reality is that they will be selected regardless. I think that is one of the biggest problems with the Irish team in general; a lot of players know they own the jersey.

That is also why I am thrilled to see Connacht putting pressure on the other 3 provinces. They have shown a lot of heart but more importantly a real desire to work hard on their core skills and reap the rewards. I believe that players like this should be rewarded.

Rory_Gallagher

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