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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

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Welly
nathan
Sgt_Pooly
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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Empty Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

Post by George Carlin Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:23 am

Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Leices10               Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Munste11
Leicester Tigers v Munster Rugby

Sunday 20 December 2015
KO: 17:15
Welford Road, Leicester

Live on BT Sport

Referee Jerome Garces (France)
Touch Judge 1 Thomas Charabas (France)
Touch Judge 2 Salam Attalah (France)
Fourth Official Jean-Marie Piraveau (France)
TMO Jean-Marie Piraveau (France)
Assessor Gordon McMurray (Scotland)
Citing Commissioner Jeff Mark (Wales)

A. Head to Head

5 Played 5
3 Wins 2
2 Losses 3
0 Draws 0
85 Points 75

B. Recent Form

12 December 2015
Munster 19 - 31 Leicester

27 August 2010
Munster 13-17 Leicester

20 January 2007
Munster 6 - 13 Leicester

22 Oct 2006
Leicester 19 - 21 Munster

13 April 2003
Leicester 7 - 20 Munster

25 May 2002
Leicester 15 - 9 Munster

C. Teams
Leicester Tigers
Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Gok-wa10
Veainu; Thompstone, Betham, Smith, Goneva; Burns, Youngs; Ayerza, Youngs, Cole; Fitzgerald, Kitchener; Slater (c), O'Connor, McCaffrey.

Replacements: Thacker, Aguero, Balmain, Barrow, Croft, Harrison, Bell, Bai.

Munster Rugby
Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Graham10
Conway; Earls, Saili, Hurley, Zebo; Keatley, Murray; Cronin, Sherry, Ryan; Chisholm, Ryan; Copeland O'Callaghan, Stander (c).

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Sagario, Foley, O'Donoghue, O'Leary, Scannell, Gonzalez Amorosino.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Empty Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:53 am

In Europe you have to win your home games. Today is no different for Tigers. It's a must win. Grab a win here and a bonus point vs Treviso next time out and we're certain of a home semi final and could send a reserve team to Paris.

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Post by king_carlos Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:39 am

Agreed Sam. It's a huge game.

I've been so impressed with the improvements made this season but I have felt a few times that we have been moments from losing a few games.

On the one hand we have seen how playing a new style with new players can be implemented quickly by the right coaches with the right player. We have also seen inconsistency in our play due to the unfamiliarity of players. This is only to be expected and they have been few which is great to see.

However, I've felt that it has taken moments of individual brilliance at key moments to salvage things a few times. Take Nikki beating 3 men with no right to for his try when it looked like we may have squandered an opportunity - it should have been a pen try yes, but we should have taken it out the refs hands.

Hopefully those moments continue today and we don't have a slip up due to errors at key points of the game.

On the game itself I expect a real backlash from Munster after losing at Thomond. They may not be the force old and losing POM and TOD from a back row would hurt any side. They are usually much tougher unit to break down than we saw last weekend and I'm expecting every bit of that to come out today.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:41 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:In Europe you have to win your home games. Today is no different for Tigers. It's a must win. Grab a win here and a bonus point vs Treviso next time out and we're certain of a home semi final and could send a reserve team to Paris.

Jumping the gun a touch Sam, especially as we would not be guaranteed top spot in the group (your scenario gives us 23pts, while Stade could still get 25), let alone winning the 1/4 final. However win today and at least a 1/4 final spot is all but guaranteed.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:31 am

Yeah meant quarter not semi final. Blame it on a Sunday early start.

For Stade to get 25 points would be an impressive resurgence. I expect a backlash from Munster today and I expect them to be anything but lackadaisical in their approach to the games with Stade particularly at Thomond (losing twice in the group stages there is surely unthinkable).

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:00 pm

Munster are so difficult to watch this season. Murray is off form but Keatley is just terrible. Overall they look pretty clueless in attack for the most part. A few offloading cameos aside.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:03 pm

Munster will never win anything of note with Keatley as a playmaker/kicker. The lad is 28 already and it was clear 3-4 years ago that he doesn't quite cut it at this level.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:09 pm

Can someone please tell me what Garces said when he binned Barrow please. There had not been a series of penalties and they had given away a penalty in a much more threatening position not long before.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:10 pm

Cynical play.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Incredibly dumb penalty for Barrow to give away. It's pure idiocy. Harsh yellow card and no more cynical than the high tackle that brought down TV in the Munster 22. As LT says not even close to the line but it's a moronic stone wall penalty so I can only blame Barrow. Having said that Garces has been poor.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:32 pm

Should have scored there. Poor clearing out by us but there's some unsupported bodyweight there.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:36 pm

Murray and Keatley are a laughing stock.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:53 pm

The pack has literally fallen asleep. They are getting totally blown off the park at the breakdown. I think I remember telling the Tiger's fans on here that this would happen... Wink

Stander is the only player in the back row doing his job.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:55 pm

Munster and Leinster are just a mess at the minute. I've never seen so many players off form at the same time.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:01 pm

Just turned this on 15mins ago but Ben Youngs is looking sharp. I've always wondered why he's more than often brought off as he's a big performer for the 80 when given a chance.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:01 pm

We are playing two sevens and it wasn't happening in the first half.

Really pleased with how good Balmain has looked since coming on. Breaking tackles and scrummaging well.

CJ Stander and Copeland have easily been Munster's best players. Murray looks like he's lacking confidence whilst Keatley looks more like a second string option. Someone with more ego I'd required by the looks of it.


Last edited by formerly known as Sam on Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:02 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Munster and Leinster are just a mess at the minute. I've never seen so many players off form at the same time.

Healy, Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Kearney... a lot of players who have been starting over the past few years not playing well.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:04 pm

What days are these when the Munster pack is lazy and totally lacking any tactical nous at the breakdown.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:05 pm

Keatley is such an average 10, no idea why Munster persist with him.

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Post by nathan Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:08 pm

Hope Foley doesn't moan about the ref and look inwards a bit

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:12 pm

nathan wrote:Hope Foley doesn't moan about the ref and look inwards a bit

Complain about what? The soft yellow he gave Tigers? The fact Saili didn't opt for the fend and drive to the corner rather than passing inside?

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Post by nathan Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:22 pm

Really feel sorry for the guy, he looks distraught

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Post by Welly Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:24 pm

Slater for England for me, a real leader.

Also anyone see Youngs hitting his darts at the back.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:32 pm

Youngs and Thacker hit their darts nicely. Scrum looked steady with Thacker as well.

Slater was my man of the match. If he's not in the England squad then Eddie Jones is a fool. He was everywhere tonight; lineout, carrying, tackling just a huge work rate.

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Post by nathan Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:37 pm

Welly wrote: Slater for England for me, a real leader.

Also anyone see Youngs hitting his darts at the back.
Ask pooly! Lol

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:43 pm

Haha....missed most of the game unfortunately, I'd put money on Youngs not been clean though!

Thacker is a much better thrower but a wee pea and massively underpowered. I can see why you're after McGuigan(apart from the darts).

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:03 pm

He's increasingly not that small. The scrum worked, the lineout worked and in the loose he's always good. I think he could force his way up the pecking order if he keeps working hard on his scrummaging and playing well. We like have multiple players with open side skills this season so why not the reserve hooker.

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Post by Guest Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Just seen the replay of Goneva's try, huge mistake by Zebo giving the ball to Ben for him to take a quick tap. You never hand the ball over willingly to the opposition 9, especially one who made two game changing quick taps against you the week before.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:33 pm

Had it not been a quick tap I think Slater would have been demanding a yellow as it was a cynical slap down in his own 22. Kick to the corner and turn the screw on a 14 man team. Youngs didn't give Garces chance.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:58 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:He's increasingly not that small. The scrum worked, the lineout worked and in the loose he's always good. I think he could force his way up the pecking order if he keeps working hard on his scrummaging and playing well. We like have multiple players with open side skills this season so why not the reserve hooker.

C'mon Sam, he's absolutley tiny. He's bulked up a bit but he's got such a small frame he can add very little to scrum. He's just not a natural front rower, especially in the modern era and it's a shame really as he has some good qualities.

Munsters scrum is nothing to get excited about currently, I think you could stick Shane Williams in at hooker for Tigers and they'd still be ok.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:12 pm

The tigers scrum started to go backwards when Sagario the Uruguayan tighthead came on. Shame he came on at the 77th mark but he is there as a temporary cover only so i guess Munster aren't too keen in giving him game time and prefer developing John Ryan who is switching from the LH side.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:47 pm

Munster milked a penalty early doors through some clever footwork. Applied plenty of pressure when Barrow was serving his ten mins. It was a much improved set piece for them this week, line out as well, they weren't getting marched back 20 metres with a rolling maul this week.

Sgt he's less tiny then last season. His line outs were to the tail and we're caught. We know how good he is around the park if he can provide a solid scrum I see no issue now. Whether he moves to open side next season I don't know.

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Post by yappysnap Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:11 pm

I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).

Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:12 pm

Less tiny isn't really an improvement in front row terms. I do think his basics are actually better than Youngs but his size will always hold him back.

I like him but his size will always be a hindrance in the front row.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:30 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just turned this on 15mins ago but Ben Youngs is looking sharp. I've always wondered why he's more than often brought off as he's a big performer for the 80 when given a chance.

Benny was knackered when he was hauled off, and starting to make some mistakes.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:31 pm

yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).

Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.

Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.

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Post by rodders Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:28 am

Stander, Copeland and Saili were superb for Munster but the rest of the side were a disgrace to the jersey - the Tigers were poor enough but shocking from Munster.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:01 am

LondonTiger wrote:
yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).

Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.

Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.

And good for England.

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Post by nathan Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:07 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).

Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.

Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.

And good for England.
In your little world, yes Wink

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:10 am

What little world is that? The one where people are not biased to all things Leicester related and their players can do no wrong?

Youngs is a disaster for England, the further away he is from the national squad the better.

Jones stated Youngs is not a good set piece hooker prior to taking over, hopefully that tells us enough on his opinion of him.

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Post by nathan Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:51 am

Lol, yeah because that happens. I and other tigers fans will easily criticise players so don't use that argument as it's just lazy.

I'm talking about the world where you bang on about the same things all the time regardless of how well a player plays. You make your mind up and it can't be changed.

Jones said a lot of things before he became the coach and has since said he was being mischievous. So don't think that vindicates your viewpoint

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:45 am

Cockerill has stated to the media he believes Tom Youngs to be the best hooker in the AP "by a country mile". It is the season to big up your English players apparently. Mike Ford having said Auterac and Thomas were ready for international duty.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Well Diamond has been talking up about half a dozen players, and Deano believes he has several in consideration.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Cockerill has stated to the media he believes Tom Youngs to be the best hooker in the AP "by a country mile". It is the season to big up your English players apparently. Mike Ford having said Auterac and Thomas were ready for international duty.

That's an absurd thing to suggest, he obviously can't be serious.

The day Youngs has a good game for England I may change my mind, until then I stand by my opinion, he's a poor hooker.

Deano is equally out of his mind, no Falcons players are anywhere near an England jersey. Mark Wilson could be a Saxon but that's as good as it gets currently for us.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:47 pm

Tigers fans are the most ardent defenders of their players on this board by some distance for me. You often defend the indefensible which is honourable but then also makes some of you hard to take seriously at times.

I respect your unwavering admiration for all things Tigers, even if I don't agree with it. I imagine it's hard to accept being possibly the premier team in Europe to where you currently reside, as a Falcons fan I've never really felt those dizzying heights.

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Post by maverickmak Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:57 pm

Maybe you should try watching some rugby.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:12 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Tigers fans are the most ardent defenders of their players on this board by some distance for me. You often defend the indefensible which is honourable but then also makes some of you hard to take seriously at times.

I respect your unwavering admiration for all things Tigers, even if I don't agree with it. I imagine it's hard to accept being possibly the premier team in Europe to where you currently reside, as a Falcons fan I've never really felt those dizzying heights.

Criticism is fine.

We get defensive when you say ridiculous things, which you tend to when you have taken against a player. To repeatedly state that Youngs has been a disaster is so over the top as to be ridiculous. no Leicester fan here thinks we are the best team in Europe, most of us feel we are still very much an average AP team. Does not stop you resorting to Beshocked style hyperbole though.

Of course now that you have also created a similar blind spot about anything thet Alex goode does, perhaps you can go and have a fight with our paranoid Sarrie now?


As it is youngs has been excellent for us this season. his throwing to the tail yesterday (something you will claim to have missed as according to you he is too incompetent to try it) was outstanding. I do not want him to play for England, I am happy for him to stay with us.

I just wish you would leave out the repeated snide remarks on a thread that was, until you stuck your oar in, about a match.


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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Empty Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:15 pm

No need to get offensive, it's only opinions.

At least we can agree on something, we both do not want Tom Youngs anywhere near an England squad.

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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Empty Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

Post by Geordie Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:24 pm

And keep yer hands off McGuigan!! raspberry

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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December Empty Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December

Post by LondonTiger Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:16 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:And keep yer hands off McGuigan!! raspberry

Until he is an improvement on what we have, you can keep him.

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