Saffers - England, 1st test, Durban - match thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Jimmy Anderson officially out, Woakes and Finn expected to be named with Jordan, footitt and ballance missing out.

Joe Root missing training today due to an upset stomach, but should be ok for day one

[CaledonianCraig]

Olly do you not think that is England's problem though? Far too many dashers such as Stokes, Ali, Root, Hales and even Bairstow goes for his shots. All more than enough to build a fluent innings even with Compton putting down anchor. As I have said having someone who sticks around is crucial as well as when you have a side like England that is prone to collapses.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Compton's low SR in my opinion puts a lot of pressure on the other batsmen to be scoring runs at a reasonable rate and to keep the game moving along. Craig you've gone the complete other way by bringing up Stokes, Root and Taylor are more like it, not sloggers but players able to manipulate the field and pick up ones and twos whilst putting the bad ball away.

Sounds harsh considering he's scored 85 but I simply don't and never have wanted Compton in the team; we'll soon revert to a Cook, Compton, Ballance top three which is just painful.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Far too many dashers such as Stokes, Ali, Root, Hales and even Bairstow goes for his shots.

One of whom Stokes is a dasher while the others are just fluent stroke players.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Olly do you not think that is England's problem though? Far too many dashers such as Stokes, Ali, Root, Hales and even Bairstow goes for his shots. All more than enough to build a fluent innings even with Compton putting down anchor. As I have said having someone who sticks around is crucial as well as when you have a side like England that is prone to collapses.

Wouldn't call any of them dashers, simply proactive players. Common thread between guys like Stokes, Root, Taylor etc is they're looking to keep the scoreboard ticking over, whereas with Compton I see someone just looking to survive. As others have said puts pressure on these guys to really up the rate.

I don't think we're asking a lot from Compton here. He needs to get to Cook's strike rate, just be a little more proactive. Nothing outrageous

[VTR]

Anyway, just sneaked over 300 in the end
However we got there, its not bad after being put in to bat

[kingraf]

Think we were aiming more 250 than 300 but the bowlers can be satisfied because conditions have not been as good for bowling as they initially appeared.

In 2012 from here the plan would be score 600 and win by an innings. Right now... I'm really not sure. I'm not even sure England haven't already attained a huge insurmountable total given the India tour.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anyway, just sneaked over 300 in the end
However we got there, its not bad after being put in to bat

Also got there without Cook/Root scoring runs. Not too bad.

Woakes time now #fingerscrossed

[KP_fan]

I have said about Compton when I saw him in tours of India and NZ ...this guy has temperament and innings building ability and that he should have gotten a much longer rope ...Flower's whim or ego or both and selector's snootiness ...... ate up about 3 prime years of his life...

and Taylor...every time i saw him bat in ODis....had to ask....why is he not playing tests...

anyway....better late than never...they are both in the playing 11 and as the situation corrects itself further....Ballance will replace Hales as Compton will go up to the opening slot.
Bell should have been the one to be dropped instead of Ballance  when Ballance got dumped. The latter is a good quality test match batsman.



Eng are very much in the game.....so far and if their allrounders can each get 20s and 30s...they will get close to 300ish.....competitive against a SA side...whose biggest weakness to me... is lack of leadership

it's playing out to the script.....it's a competitive total....Broad's run a ball 30 odd is very valuable at the end

[Pal Joey]

I think Compton should be praised on the one hand for seeing England through what could have been a well below par performance yesterday along with Taylor. Those older style batsmen add an extra dimension to the game which seems to be lacking nowadays. A hint of Boycott dare I say!
However, he should try to work the ball around more and rotate the strike. That would be of benefit not only to himself but the team too naturally!

Can see Raf's side of the debate too though. After all of that grit and determination... then to see the flurry of wickets this morning by some less circumspect (almost irresponsible) batsmen does tend to undo some of that slow Compton graft work.

Otherwise duty's 350-450 predictions might have been possibly right for once!

Looking forward to see if SA can turn their recent form around back at home. I suspect they will; if they can see off a slightly weaker England opening bowling line up and settle in early. On the other hand.... lose a few early and they will no doubt make things harder for themselves. Surely not?

[JDizzle]

Holding the innings together is a bit of a nonsense cliche for me really. What does it actually mean? The aim of cricket is to score runs, you aren't rewarded for batting time. Yes, if Compton makes 85 off 236 every knock I'd take it, but that simply isn't going to happen. It is all very well in saying you have to have the technique/ability/mental side to get through tricky spells, but it doesn't count for anything if you don't push on after that. In the long run, batting at a s/r of 36 is going to put pressure on your teammates to do all the scoring and is going to lead to more collapses.

Plus, if this is Compton in good nick, imagine him in poor touch! As Olly said, needs to be able to rotate the strike more. I'll give him a bit of a pass as it was on a slow pitch and outfield and his first knock back, but Taylor showed scoring at a s/r of 50 was possible. Which, coincidentally, is probably the biggest change from when he was last in the side.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Oh and jonny bairstow is fast becoming the new Bell - no horror scores, but no cementing his place in the side scores either

[msp83]

Someone like Ian Bell gets a quickish 15-20 and a lot of single figure scores with a couple of big scores in between. But that wasn't helping England, even in this innings they just batted around a day's usual quota of overs. Compton made 85, and that is a substantial score, the highest of the innings and he was 6th out. He came in pretty early after England lost Alastair Cook, their batting mainstay along with Root for a duck, soon it became 12-2, and when they lost Root Too, the score was only 49. It was Compton's and Taylor's measured approach that helped them recover. If they had gone mental and went after everything, they might have reached a hundred at a quicker rate, but there wouldn't have been many more to that total.......
Compton can perhaps work on getting more singles, but this was a fine effort that deserves a lot more credit than what he's getting.......

[Hammersmith harrier]

Compton- 85 from 236 balls
Taylor- 70 from 137 balls

One is a measured approach, the other is batting like a snail too scared of playing a shot in case he gets out.

[Duty281]

Slightly below par from England.

Criticism of Compton is ludicrous, seeing as how England would have struggled to make 200 without his effort.

[Pal Joey]

In my mind, Kingsmead is one of those scary grounds to watch Test cricket. Depressing looking place with that volatile, evil looking wicket block... even so early in the match. If this match gets to Day 4 it will be a killing ground by the looks of it. Never know what's around the corner. Just glad Australia haven't played there for a while... last time was in 2006 I believe.

There's a real mid-20th C look to the place with those tin roofs slapped with a coat of modern paint and some tacky advertising.

What time does the tide usually come in, Raf? Some time in the afternoon, yeah?

[msp83]

Or if you want someone who can score big and score them quick, you know where to go!

[GSC]

In this situation Compton was perfect. Long term he has to show he has a higher gear but that was not required in this situation.

Weird Innings, England would've taken 300 after being put in and overnight you'd suspect. Then collapsed to 260 and scraped to 300. Plenty of scores but neither Taylor or Compton went on to make that big 100 that turns these 300s into big targets.

[Pal Joey]

Next HIGH TIDE in Durban is at 4:55 PM, which is in 3 hr 57 min 56 s from now.

[kingraf]

I've never jet skiid at Durban, so I don't actually know. .. but it can't be that different to Jay Bay so I'd say 4-5

[Duty281]

Compton- 85 from 236 balls
Taylor- 70 from 137 balls

One is a measured approach, the other is batting like a snail too scared of playing a shot in case he gets out.

Wow, you're criticising a batsmen for protecting his wicket. He came to the crease at 3/1, shortly after it was 12/2. There were numerous stoppages in play during his innings. And he was facing Steyn and Morkel. On his first test appearance for two years.

[Pal Joey]

I've never jet skiid at Durban, so I don't actually know. .. but it can't be that different to Jay Bay so I'd say 4-5

Yep, spot on with your estimate.

[alfie]

Cannot believe the stick Compton is getting on here. The man came in at 0/1 , saw two more fall early , and batted through (top scoring) to see the team to 247/5 ...yes a poor stroke to get out , and bad timing to fall when he did ; but harsh to blame the next two fellows making ducks on him !

Sure I'd like to see him more fluent too : but let us be realistic . He is what he is - Nick not Dennis. Has to play to his limits else he'd not be a lot of use to England. When they find someone better , he will be replaced , unless he gets better. But for now ; good effort I say

And I am not one of those who felt he was wrongly dropped/should have been back sooner , etc etc. But he earned my respect with this innings.

[Duty281]

Broady!

[alfie]

Nice start for Broad

What one might call an injudicious leave...

[kingraf]

Stephen Cook is coming round the corner

[alfie]

Your man Woakes is getting his chance , I see , Olly.

Didn't exactly cover himself with glory with the bat ...hopefully will do a job with the new ball now ...

[alfie]

Twice Broad thinks Amla has nicked it ...but England , wisely , don't review.
I'm sure Cook is well aware Amla walks when he's out.

[Pal Joey]

Compressed air on Ultra Edge... so, so close.

[kingraf]

Little spike but I don't think it would have been overturned?

[Pal Joey]

Imagine getting impaled by that Sunfoil umbrella. What a way to go...

[guildfordbat]

Only seen bits and pieces of this match so far but a few quick thoughts:

1. The criticism of Compton is too soon and so far unfair. Let's give him at least 3 games and then make a judgment. Too much of the assessment above seems on his past reputation - you critics may turn out to be right but I'm prepared to give him some more time and certainly feel he's earned it on this innings.

2. VTR is on the money above with his comment questioning ''a long batting line up or lack of reliable quality''. Sure, anyone can get a duck and I won't go overboard about that. Do feel though that others went too much the other way believing additional runs were virtually guaranteed. Ali's and Woakes' real jobs (in this Test anyway) are with the ball and that is still to come.

3. [This thought has just been destroyed by Broad's second ball but I'll keep it in!!] Disappointing we couldn't bat even 1 ball beyond lunch - at Surrey, Alec Stewart regularly emphasises how much opening batsmen value the extra time to prepare before walking out to the wicket.

4. SA's spinner Piedt seemed terrible. How did he get Joe with his first ball?

5. Suspect both sides will be slightly disappointed with England's first innings score. From 49/3, not bad to get 300 but we would have been looking for more at 174/3.

[Duty281]

Think Amla got the slightest of slightest nicks on that. Certainly in real-time I thought it was out.

Probably wouldn't have been enough evidence to overturn it had Cook reviewed.

Broad bowling wonderfully.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Little spike but I don't think it would have been overturned?

Doubt it would've been tbh

[JDizzle]

Oh Jonny.

[JDizzle]

And I'd have overturned the Amla nick. Spike on snicko as it passes the bat, nothing else it could have been. An edge for me. Doubt the the third umpire would have seen it the same way. Guessing no HotSpot in this series then?

[alfie]

Ouch ! Amla dropped ...

Bairstow got there but couldn't hold on...probably would have been taken by Cook had he left it .

Not a man you want to miss early...and bad luck for Woakes.

[GSC]

Amla living dangerously. Compton and Taylor suggest it might get easier when you dig in so England need to strike while they can.

[kingraf]

And I'd have overturned the Amla nick. Spike on snicko as it passes the bat, nothing else it could have been. An edge for me. Doubt the the third umpire would have seen it the same way. Guessing no HotSpot in this series then?

Compressed air it could have been.

[Hammersmith harrier]

That second Amla one was out and should have been given out had it been referred.

[JDizzle]

And I'd have overturned the Amla nick. Spike on snicko as it passes the bat, nothing else it could have been. An edge for me. Doubt the the third umpire would have seen it the same way. Guessing no HotSpot in this series then?

Compressed air it could have been.

Would that actually make enough sound to be audible?

[alfie]

England bowlers right on top here : will want to strike again while they're hot. Batting will get a lot easier when this ball gets older...

Pleased to see Woakes bowling so well here . He needs to forget about the missed chance and keep doing more of the same.

[JDizzle]

Absolute ripper that from Broad.

[Duty281]

You beautiful man, Stuart. These two are bowling superbly in tandem.

Amla perishes on his third life.

[alfie]

Gone now !

Don't know who is happier - Broad or Bairstow

I didn't think he nicked the earlier one , by the way. Don't totally trust these snicko gadgets.

England right on top now.

[GSC]

If England can get ABDV early they'll be well on top. Easier said than done mind.

[kingraf]

And I'd have overturned the Amla nick. Spike on snicko as it passes the bat, nothing else it could have been. An edge for me. Doubt the the third umpire would have seen it the same way. Guessing no HotSpot in this series then?

Compressed air it could have been.

Would that actually make enough sound to be audible?

I would think so? On series with Hot spot I've never seen hot spot pick up an edge with a sound that faint on snicko

[alfie]

Question for Cook is how long he keeps Broad going now. Really wants to throw everything at ABDV , of course...but don't want to kill the main man...

Moeen ? Interesting change.

[kingraf]

Probably just having a look if SA are suffering from any PTSD from the India tour. I think it's pretty clever.

[Pal Joey]

Raf, do you think Amla has been on a slow slide since he got the captaincy?
He seems to struggle more these days and it's as though he's lacking confidence. His body language was never super confident but do you reckon it's head or heart under pressure... or he will come good at some stage in the near future? He just seems to have lost the urge to stand and fight but maybe I'm reading him wrong though.

[kingraf]

I back Amla. This is his first proper dip in form. Maybe just doesn't know how to handle it? Think the team just not being very good at the moment isnt helping. thats a problem Smith he didn't really have. He'll come good.

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