2nd Test, South Africa vs England; Cape Town 2nd-6th January

First topic message reminder :

South Africa (from):
H Amla (c), Q De Kock (wkt), AB De Villiers (wkt), K Abbott, T Bavuma, JP Duminy, F Du Plessis, D Elgar, M Morkel, C Morris, D Piedt, Rabada, R Rossouw, S Van Zyl, H Viljoen.

England (from):
A Cook (c), A Hales, N Compton, J Root, J Taylor, B Stokes, J Bairstow (wkt), M Ali, C Woakes, S Broad, S Finn, J Anderson, S Patel, C Jordan, M Footitt, J Butler, G Ballance.


Umpires: A Dar (Pak), B Oxenford (Aus)

Third umpire: R Tucker (Aus)

Match referee: R Madugalle (Sri Lanka)

alfie wrote:

Need a couple of sturdy , nerveless ,  Scots to steady the ship , perhaps ?  That or a dash of your most famous National Product for the watchers

Gavin Hamilton?

The Famous Grouse?

Hi guildford.

Started out a decent pitch , I thought. Died completely day two and stayed that way basically throughout : enough bounce and pace that bowlers were not completely disarmed ; but outside of the new ball periods any chances were produced more by persistence of the bowling and/or tired or careless batting.
Not like the one Australia and West Indies played on in Perth recently ; but still overwhelmingly batsman friendly. And made more so by the really hot weather and cloud free skies...at least today that has changed in the bowlers' favour.

Holding is correct though to say a result was possible , had chances been held. Though that might owe something to batting frailties on each side

Rabada drops Taylor. oooh

God, we are living dangerously today! Taylor dropped on 22.

Are these guys not familiar with the concept of batting out time?

Lead of 86 and 7 wickets remaining. I wonder whst total South Africa would fancy chasing comfortably? Certainly no more than 150 I would say.

kingraf wrote:The Famous Grouse?

I think he was referring to Deep Fried Pizza or Mars bar.

dyrewolfe wrote:God, we are living dangerously today! Taylor dropped on 22.

Are these guys not familiar with the concept of batting out time?

Compton gets slated for batting like thst though??

Compton gone

Only SA of Test playing nations seem to have the mental "set" to bat time these days , dyrewolfe.

England - save perhaps Cook & Compton - seem uncomfortable if they aren't scoring at a fair rate. I don't mind that , to be honest , though perhaps Taylor might rein it in a bit hereabouts ; far better to be increasing the lead than just trying to survive (which is actually where they went wrong in that accursed game in Adelaide .)

And there goes Compton to a "nothing" shot. Just to keep SA interested over lunch...

Compton gone for 15. Now 85-4.

SA won't have to chase much more than 150 at this rate.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:God, we are living dangerously today! Taylor dropped on 22.

Are these guys not familiar with the concept of batting out time?

Compton gets slated for batting like thst though??

Not by me. We needed a new Jonathan Trott and I think he's done pretty well, so far (especially given that Cookie hasn't done anything yet this tour).

Oh dear - this is very lose-able from here. Need a couple of partnerships!

alfie wrote:Hi guildford.

Started out a decent pitch , I thought. Died completely day two and stayed that way basically throughout : enough bounce and pace that bowlers were not completely disarmed ; but outside of the new ball periods any chances were produced more by persistence of the bowling and/or tired or careless batting.
Not like the one Australia and West Indies played on in Perth recently ; but still overwhelmingly batsman friendly.  And made more so by the really hot weather and cloud free skies...at least today that has changed in the bowlers' favour.

Holding is correct though to say a result was possible , had chances been held.  Though that might owe something to batting frailties on each side

To be honest, Alfie, I haven't seen enough of this Test (hardly able to watch at all Monday and yesterday) to properly judge the pitch. My main point though was really a more general one that Holding is worth a listen.

And now ... 4 down. Pass the Grouse please, I need a nip! Imo you were bang on earlier, Alfie - tea is the crucial time. If we're still batting then, it's a draw for sure. If we're all out by then, South Africa have a chance to go for it and nothing to lose - hell for leather from early on and then shut up shop if they go 4 or 5 down.

Taylor's a was a blinder that didn't stick....
but Compton goes...

when there is a pressure induced collapse, generally your "average spinner" in the side picky up plenty of wickets.......the side under pressure not knowing whether to attack or defend safely the "average spinner"

CaledonianCraig wrote:Lead of 86 and 7 wickets remaining. I wonder whst total South Africa would fancy chasing comfortably? Certainly no more than 150 I would say.

Chasing 150 would be a pretty straightforward matter , I think - depending on how long they had to chase. (Presumably that would imply from 30-35 overs or so , considering what time is left and the current position ) But once the lead stretched much beyond that , with the time coming down accordingly , it would start to get a bit difficult.
Of course if they only had twenty odd overs to chase they could freely charge after whatever target ; as there would be no fear of being bowled out.

Great session for SA

Still should bat out safely ; but England will be feeling a bit twitchy.

I still say cast iron draw. A lead of 87 with six wickets standing and what (60 overs left)? If England or South Africa lose this I will eat a pair of Geoff Boycott's smelly y-fronts.

my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

KP_fan wrote:my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

I would hardly describe it as saving the game. You could just as easily say they had run out of time to bowl South Africa out as by that time England will be around 200 runs ahead. That position then you wouldnt back a team batting last to chase down 200+.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

I would hardly describe it as saving the game. You could just as easily say they had run out of time to bowl South Africa out as by that time England will be around 200 runs ahead. That position then you wouldnt back a team batting last to chase foen 200+.

you can call it....safe draw where there was no fear of losing...if that pleases you

I'll tell you a tragic story.

Yesterday, I had £10. After doing some rather foolish bets on the darts, this tenner became £70...somehow. I was in no mood to keep hold of this money.

So I put £60 on a 16/1 horse...who lost on a photofinish. The agony has not quite left.

The point is, I could have chucked away that £60 on South Africa winning this Test at odds of 20/1. Only, I wouldn't have been chucking, because I reckon another 2 wickets in the opening hour and the Saffers have got this.

Such a bizarre game.

Stokes is a big wicket. If he is in there for 50-60 balls it could be an academic exercise.

KP_fan wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

I would hardly describe it as saving the game. You could just as easily say they had run out of time to bowl South Africa out as by that time England will be around 200 runs ahead. That position then you wouldnt back a team batting last to chase foen 200+.

you can call it....safe draw where there was no fear of losing...if that pleases you

Yes that is more accurate. I do agree on your point about South Africa needing a fourth seamer in the side though.

Shoukd have started with pace on both ends

SA probably need to be batting by just after tea.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I still say cast iron draw. A lead of 87 with six wickets standing and what (60 overs left)? If England or South Africa lose this I will eat a pair of Geoff Boycott's smelly y-fronts.

   


As it said on the BBC live text, you can never rule out England's ability to implode.

Mark my words it is a draw.

It really should be a draw but could we just have one partnership that last more than about 10 overs please! Bairstow and Mooen - someone has to stay with Taylor!

I think England could still win this or at least severly dent SA's confidence. Get a lead of 220-30 then let the bowlers have a go for the last 15-20 overs (1hr 30 mins). Conditions really seem to have swung in favour of bowler today and the England bowlers do far more with it than SA.

ENG:

SA:

I reckon go even punchier, 200 run lead then chuck 'em in!

VTR wrote:It really should be a draw but could we just have one partnership that last more than about 10 overs please! Bairstow and Mooen - someone has to stay with Taylor!

Stokes gone for 26 - skies a big shot against Piedt and caught by Morkel. ENG 115-5.

Looks like they're all going to be going for 10s and 20s today. Which ought to give SA around 180 to chase down...which they probably won't.

Lmfao are you guys serious?

CaledonianCraig wrote:Mark my words it is a draw.

I think you are going to be right eventually , Craig. But you can't deny these wickets have kept the game "alive" to this point ... and likely to remain so , at least mathematically , until after tea.

I shudder to think what the English press would have to say if England did somehow contrive to lose this after that astonishing second day ! As it is , SA are going to be able to claim the overall honours from the match ...

And as Taylor goes , I think we can now officially say England are Trying to Save The Game

Hmm, not sure about this now, I think SA are actually favourites for the win now!

KP_fan wrote:Taylor's a was a blinder that didn't stick....
but Compton goes...

when there is a pressure induced collapse, generally your "average spinner" in the side picky up plenty of wickets.......the side under pressure not knowing whether to attack or defend safely the "average spinner"

i told ya.....

Oh Jesus - Piedt gets Taylor just a couple of balls later for 27. ENG 116-6.


We will be lucky to set SA 150 at this rate!

Nobody can match England for going full "Headless Chicken" mode.

Why the f*** are we trying to play big attacking shots on a last day wicket, when the most we can realistically expect is a draw?

After this its Anderson and Broad. Two left handers out of three for Piedt to have a go at.

25 overs batting should be enough from here. Are they good enough to do it though??

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

I would hardly describe it as saving the game. You could just as easily say they had run out of time to bowl South Africa out as by that time England will be around 200 runs ahead. That position then you wouldnt back a team batting last to chase foen 200+.

you can call it....safe draw where there was no fear of losing...if that pleases you

Yes that is more accurate. I do agree on your point about South Africa needing a fourth seamer in the side though.

OK...you are so correct.....no fear of losing for Eng

Stokes always plays his shots. Another forty minutes of him would have settled the game.
But as KP_fan says , in these pressure situations batsmen start to be unsure what to do ...and can often come unstuck as a result.

Still fifty overs left in the day so they'd want to be batting a fair few of them. But of course , they also need to be scoring runs...

alfie wrote:Stokes always plays his shots.  Another forty minutes of him would have settled the game.  
But as KP_fan says , in these pressure situations batsmen start to be unsure what to do ...and can often come unstuck as a result.

Still fifty overs left in the day so they'd want to be batting a fair few of them. But of course , they also need to be scoring runs...

I'd much rather they did an Amla or ABdV and bored SA to death.

But then most of our players bat like one-day or T20 batsmen...they just can't help themselves.


Don't often agree with Boycott, but surely Test quality players should be able to adapt their games to the situation?

dyrewolfe wrote:

alfie wrote:Stokes always plays his shots.  Another forty minutes of him would have settled the game.  
But as KP_fan says , in these pressure situations batsmen start to be unsure what to do ...and can often come unstuck as a result.

Still fifty overs left in the day so they'd want to be batting a fair few of them. But of course , they also need to be scoring runs...

I'd much rather they did an Amla and bored SA to death.

But then most of our players bat like one-day or T20 batsmen.

Whole aim of cricket is to score runs ain't it? Just as likely to get out tentatively blocking as you playing a attacking shot

Olly wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

alfie wrote:Stokes always plays his shots.  Another forty minutes of him would have settled the game.  
But as KP_fan says , in these pressure situations batsmen start to be unsure what to do ...and can often come unstuck as a result.

Still fifty overs left in the day so they'd want to be batting a fair few of them. But of course , they also need to be scoring runs...

I'd much rather they did an Amla and bored SA to death.

But then most of our players bat like one-day or T20 batsmen.

Whole aim of cricket is to score runs ain't it? Just as likely to get out tentatively blocking as you playing a attacking shot

SA gave us an object lesson in how to save a game, did they not?

After they matched our score, a win was never on the cards, so why swing the bat on the last day?

Also, the "aim of cricket" varies depending on the situation. If you can't win, you should try to save the game instead.

KP_fan wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

KP_fan wrote:my gut feeling....Eng will stick it out and save the game 7 or 8 wicket down
it will be called off an hour after tea.

SA needs to put one more bowler or a seam bowling allrounder in the side in place of a full batsman

I would hardly describe it as saving the game. You could just as easily say they had run out of time to bowl South Africa out as by that time England will be around 200 runs ahead. That position then you wouldnt back a team batting last to chase foen 200+.

you can call it....safe draw where there was no fear of losing...if that pleases you

Yes that is more accurate. I do agree on your point about South Africa needing a fourth seamer in the side though.

OK...you are so correct.....no fear of losing for Eng

No still no fear. And now in the territory of an England win just as likely. As seanmichaels says the pitch has come alive but I still say it is a cast iron draw with tea just around the corner on the final day.

Only Stokes has got out playing a big shot. The first three were beaten by good balls ; Compton and Taylor were out prodding , basically ( not a criticism of Taylor ; he had been mixing defence with aggression quite well.)

SA have bowled well. But no question English nerves have played a big part : once the early wickets had fallen that is no surprise , really.

Of course , Craig isn't nervous. But he's Scottish

He also doesn't have to bat.

So South Africa (if they have to bat) will be very nervous then?

I can feel a wicket coming - they seem to keep falling when it looks like England are just about climbing out of the hole!

CaledonianCraig wrote:So South Africa (if they have to bat) will be very nervous then?

Not unless they lose five wickets in the first ten overs ...as they really won't have time to be bowled out.

Even in this innings , England have already batted more than fifty overs. Very different situation - if they do get into bat at all , of course.

Also one might note that England's bowlers have just been cooked for two and a half days in the field : might not be quite at their best bowling again this evening !

144 lead now with what , forty overs left ? Lots of cloud...but no rain

That is why it is a cast iron draw. Tea approaches on the final day and douth Africa need 4 wickets and a minimum of 145 runs and still counting. They will need to score them at around 4 runs an over so they will need to take chances. Believe me this is a draw.