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Change of anthem for England debate is being talked about again.

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Post by Shifty Sat 02 Jan 2016, 10:43 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-35204504

MPs are to debate and vote on whether England should adopt an official national anthem.
The UK anthem, God Save the Queen, is currently used during some sporting events but Chesterfield MP Toby Perkins believes England should have its own.
He intends to bring his English National Anthem Bill to Parliament on 13 January.
If MPs voted in favour, a public consultation would be held to choose a song.
The Labour MP said: "I have nothing against God Save the Queen but that is the national anthem of the United Kingdom.
"England is a component part of the UK but it competes as a country in its own right and I think a song that celebrated England rather than Britain would be more appropriate."

Mr Perkins said he was proud to be both English and British but they were "not the same thing".
His proposed new law would bestow a responsibility on the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to hold a consultation.
All relevant sporting bodies would be instructed to use the chosen anthem prior to international sporting contests, at medal awarding ceremonies and whenever else a national anthem was required for teams or athletes representing England.
God Save the Queen would continue to be used for teams or individuals representing Great Britain or the UK.

"I hope that Scots and Welsh will also recognise this not as an anti-union move, but a pro-union one," said Mr Perkins.
"By recognising that England is a component part of the union but a different entity, I think this strengthens both our Englishness but also reminds us all of what the union is."
Liberal Democrat MP Greg Mulholland raised the same issue in Parliament in 2010.
Prime Minister David Cameron has said that Jerusalem would be his choice for England's national anthem, according to the ConservativeHome website.

Jerusalem was chosen as the anthem to be played for English athletes competing at the 2010 Commonwealth Games in Delhi following a month-long public vote.
Voters were able to choose from three songs, and Jerusalem beat both the UK national anthem and the anthem previously used for English athletes competing at Commonwealth Games.
Jerusalem drew 52.5% of the votes
Land of Hope and Glory was voted for by 32.5%
God Save The Queen was voted for by 12%
Survey by YouGov of 1,896 entrants
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Post by Shifty Sat 02 Jan 2016, 10:46 am

I'm actually all for this, though I'm leaning much more heavily towards Land of Hope and glory.  To me you have to picture the song with 82,000 singing it at Twickenham, which is basically the only time your going to hear it sung with pride or passion, and Land of Hope and glory would easily match the Welsh anthem.

kick it off at the 2:39 seconds mark, could you imagine Twickers singing that, especially at 3:33 holy shít!   Hug
the anthems are about 1 minute 30 seconds so this would be about right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ROlkMOL9s

Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
Wider still, and wider, shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet!
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet!

I also think it might be better to go for the EU anthem for the Lions.  Rule Britannia for the Lions, depending on how the Irish might feel, though I can't see it being worse than God save the Queen!


Last edited by Shifty on Sat 02 Jan 2016, 11:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 02 Jan 2016, 11:12 am

As much as i would like an english national anthem. i cannot understand why some people are suggesting ( jerusalum ) Surely it should be about (ENGLAND) and not about another country all together.

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Post by Shifty Sat 02 Jan 2016, 11:15 am

majesticimperialman wrote:As much as i would like an english national anthem. i cannot understand why some people are suggesting ( jerusalum ) Surely it should be about (ENGLAND) and not about another country all together.

That's exactly what i thought, RE was never my strong point but isn't Jerusalem in Israel? I know their on about building Jerusalem in England land, but hell it's a war zone and has been for donkeys years!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKRHWT6xdEU

It's also a bit passive, to be sang with any gusto.  Also you have to pause half way through any sentence which would be hard for anyone half píssed in an international. When people talk about the good anthems Wales, Italy and France normally get the mentions because there is a part of the anthem you can throw your voice into and make you swell up with pride, land of hope and glory has a part like that.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 02 Jan 2016, 3:14 pm

Land of hope and glory...

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Post by Gwlad Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:45 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:As much as i would like an english national anthem. i cannot understand why some people are suggesting ( jerusalum ) Surely it should be about (ENGLAND) and not about another country all together.

picard

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 Jan 2016, 5:17 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:As much as i would like an english national anthem. i cannot understand why some people are suggesting ( jerusalum ) Surely it should be about (ENGLAND) and not about another country all together.

I can only guess you do not know the lyrics.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 Jan 2016, 5:19 pm

William Blake wrote:And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant Land

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Post by BamBam Sat 02 Jan 2016, 5:23 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Land of hope and glory...

+1

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Post by Gwlad Sat 02 Jan 2016, 5:45 pm

Commemoration fo England's empire building days and world domination hardly seems appropriate in the pomp and circumstances

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 02 Jan 2016, 6:45 pm

Englands empire building??

You mean the "British Empire"...?

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 6:49 pm

Just seems a bit strange to me that a country thats been around as long as England hasnt got a national anthem....

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 02 Jan 2016, 6:50 pm

I've always like the song 'Jerusalem' but as a committed English republican, I would be pleased with anything other than GStQ.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 02 Jan 2016, 6:52 pm


But why sing about Jerusalem why not Sydney, New York or Moscow?? You guys sure do some strange things.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Sat 02 Jan 2016, 7:28 pm

Most amusing – I’m sure you’re aware it’s a metaphor, since heaven on earth is in fact in England of course Very Happy .
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Post by Cyril Sat 02 Jan 2016, 7:33 pm

I'd be happy to get rid of all anthems (and dances).

The only decent anthem is the French one anyway.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 02 Jan 2016, 8:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
William Blake wrote:And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant Land


London Tiger Wether i know the lyrics or not. It is still another country. or rather building another country in England's own country. It is not however way you look at it about England it self.

Why can we not have an anthem simalar to New Zealand's anthem about although i am not a religious man you understand? ( God save New Zealand.)

Why can we not have a anthem that says ( god save England). The countrys national anthem, should be about that country ( and not another country) that is all i am saying.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 Jan 2016, 9:50 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
William Blake wrote:And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant Land


London Tiger  Wether i know the lyrics or not. It is still another  country. or rather building another country in England's  own country. It  is not however way you look at it about England it self.

Do you understand metaphor?

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 Jan 2016, 9:51 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: Just seems a bit strange to me that a country thats been around as long as England hasnt got a national anthem....

England has not existed as a country for over 300 years.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 02 Jan 2016, 10:28 pm

Could we just have the French one?

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:06 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
William Blake wrote:And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant Land


London Tiger  Wether i know the lyrics or not. It is still another  country. or rather building another country in England's  own country. It  is not however way you look at it about England it self.

Why can we not have an anthem simalar to New Zealand's  anthem about  although i am not a religious man you understand? ( God save New Zealand.)

Why can we not have a anthem that says ( god save England). The countrys national anthem, should be about that country ( and not another country) that is all i am saying.

Heaven is by no means England

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:10 am

LondonTiger wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote: Just seems a bit strange to me that a country thats been around as long as England hasnt got a national anthem....

England has not existed as a country for over 300 years.


I never knew that, and now that you say it like that it makes sense, you cant have a national anthem unless you are a nation. What England has to do is  form a nation (You could even call it Jerusalem since you seem to like the name) then you can go and get someone like Paul McCartney (or Eddie Jones) to knock you up a national anthem, he would probably have it done by lunchtime.


Last edited by aucklandlaurie on Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:12 am

Cyril wrote:I'd be happy to get rid of all anthems (and dances).

The only decent anthem is the French one anyway.

Merde

The best one by a country mile is the Welsh in Cardiff, puts all the rest to shame.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:22 am

I imagine if this does go through then Jerusalem will be adopted.

But I hope a song without religious connotations is adopted - 'There'll Always be an England' would be my pick. Slightly revamped, perhaps.

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:41 am

In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, IN-GER-LAND.

Repeat

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Post by BamBam Sun 03 Jan 2016, 1:29 am

Oh the wit Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

picard

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Post by Cumbrian Sun 03 Jan 2016, 3:24 am

Gwlad wrote:In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, IN-GER-LAND.

Repeat

Keep trying petal, somebody might even care about what you are writing... Eventually.
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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 4:32 am

Cumbrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land
In-ger-land, IN-GER-LAND.

Repeat

Keep trying petal, somebody might even care about what you are writing... Eventually.

Ingerland, INGERLAND!

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Post by wrfc1980 Sun 03 Jan 2016, 6:18 am

What about the I vow to thee, my country. That has a great tune and is patriotic.

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 6:42 am

wrfc1980 wrote:What about the I vow to thee, my country. That has a great tune and is patriotic.

Good call, Charlotte Church does an excellent rendition

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Post by yappysnap Sun 03 Jan 2016, 6:56 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaBdajHOsSM

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 7:06 am

yappysnap wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaBdajHOsSM

an impressive pair of props at 38secs but the attack is far too one dimensional needs some width.

And there appears to be a Frenchman offside.

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Post by whocares Sun 03 Jan 2016, 7:07 am

"Hey jude" ? seems a quite popular song when it comes to sporting events (Olympic games etc) anyways Smile

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Post by Gwlad Sun 03 Jan 2016, 7:09 am

whocares wrote:"Hey jude" ? seems a quite popular song when it comes to sporting events (Olympic games etc) anyways Smile

Works. a conciliatory song intended to suggest it can't get worse and can only get better.

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Post by thomh Sun 03 Jan 2016, 10:37 am

Does anyone actually support keeping God Save the Queen?

I'd be happy with either Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory. Jerusalem has more of an emotional hook to it (for me at least, but that could just be my own associations) but Land of Hope and Glory would be great for whipping up a frenzy.

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Post by Cumbrian Sun 03 Jan 2016, 10:46 am

Gwlad wrote: Look-at-me, Look-at-me, Look-at-me,
Look-at-me, Look-at-me, Look-at-me, Look-at-me,
Look-at-me, Look-at-me, Look-at-me,
I-desperately-need, Atten-tion!

Repeat


I always suspected...
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Post by thomh Sun 03 Jan 2016, 10:50 am

LondonTiger wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote: Just seems a bit strange to me that a country thats been around as long as England hasnt got a national anthem....

England has not existed as a country for over 300 years.

"Country" is ambiguous. It could mean either nation (which England is) or state (which it is not).

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 03 Jan 2016, 12:19 pm

Maybe better served for sporting events where anthems are predominantly sung, by something all the English football and rugby fans know how the words to...

Maybe something like "Don't look back in anger" by oasis.

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Post by Guest Sun 03 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
William Blake wrote:And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England's pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green & pleasant Land


London Tiger  Wether i know the lyrics or not. It is still another  country. or rather building another country in England's  own country. It  is not however way you look at it about England it self.

Why can we not have an anthem simalar to New Zealand's  anthem about  although i am not a religious man you understand? ( God save New Zealand.)

Why can we not have a anthem that says ( god save England). The countrys national anthem, should be about that country ( and not another country) that is all i am saying.

Country?

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:15 pm

Only one choice for me:

I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love;
The love that asks no question, the love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
The love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

I heard my country calling, away across the sea,
Across the waves and waters, she calls and calls to me.
Her sword is girded at her side, her helmet on her head,[6]
And around her feet are lying the dying and the dead;
I hear the noise of battle, the thunder of her guns;
I haste to thee, my mother, a son among thy sons.

And there's another country, I've heard of long ago,
Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
We may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
And her ways are ways of gentleness, and all her paths are peace.

Never fails to move me whenever I hear it, which is not often enough.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:33 pm

thomh wrote:Does anyone actually support keeping God Save the Queen?

I'd be happy with either Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory. Jerusalem has more of an emotional hook to it (for me at least, but that could just be my own associations) but Land of Hope and Glory would be great for whipping up a frenzy.

Exactly...even just on the TV you can see what it does to the French team when the whole crowd blasts out La Marseilleis.
If we had land of hope and glory it would have a great positive effect instead of that dreary sack of spuds that is God save the queen.

Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:35 pm

thomh wrote:Does anyone actually support keeping God Save the Queen?

I'd be happy with either Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory. Jerusalem has more of an emotional hook to it (for me at least, but that could just be my own associations) but Land of Hope and Glory would be great for whipping up a frenzy.

If I were English, I still would not be able to bring myself to sing it. First off I am not a religious person, and secondly I am not a royalist. So to sing a song preying to a deity that I do not believe in, to ensure the safety of someone I do not have any great love for, seems a bit off.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:43 pm

Jerusalem for me.

I don't like GSTQ but I'll sing as it represents the nation at the moment. Does annoy me when everyone else has their own and we have to sing the joint anthem.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

Taking all the sarcasm on this thread and putting it to one side, this one of the very few times I agree with a politician. He is right. God Save the Queen is the national anthem of the UK and the Commonwealth. It should not represent just England.

Also, as beautiful as the song Jerusalem is, that should not be a national anthem either. Land of Hope and Glory is a good shout, but would you call that a stirring anthem ? I would not call it an anthem, I would call it more of a chant. Any one country could adopt that song.

An anthem should be a song about what your country provides and what it has done in the past, it should invoke pride, it should be full of emotion and have a belting chorus, like the Land of my fathers, gwlad, GWLAD. Or Ireland's call, with ireland, IRELAND. The same with the French La Marseillaise, they have their two lines of Aux armes, citoyens,(To arms, citizens), Formez vos bataillons(Form your battalions), Scotland have the two lines of Proud Edwards army, and sent him homeward to think again.

England needs a song like those, Jerusalem is not rousing enough to be an anthem, but someone could surely come up with one that instills pride in the rose. God Save the Queen is not unique to England.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:11 pm

Think Jerusalem builds up to the big finish myself. Nice tune. Relates to England and doesn't mention the monarchy. Big ticks for me.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Relates to England

It relates to England by saying they want to build Jerusalem there. Not very good selling point for what England already provides and has provided in the past. It's saying Jerusalem is a nicer place than England, it is a beautiful song, but not a national anthem for me, but hey ho, each to their own.

England should be singing about how beautiful their country is, for my liking. England is a very proud and beautiful place, why don't you sing about it ?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:18 pm

Jerusalem being a metaphor in this case, not a relocation! Not sure I get what you mean by the selling point of England.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:selling point of England

It's about selling it to yourself, telling yourself what you are representing when singing it. Why do you think the Welsh anthem is sung with so much passion ? It is because of words like this(translated into English for you):-

The land of my fathers is dear to me,
Country of poets and singers, celebrities indeed:
Its warring defenders, so gallant and brave,
For freedom their life's blood they gave

Land!, Land!, Pledge-ful I am to my country!
While seas secure
This land so pure,
O may our old language endure.

That's just the first verse and chorus, pretty rousing words don't you think, although it is not exact word for word it is the same meanings ?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Rousing yes. As rousing as Jerusalem? not for me.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Rousing yes. As rousing as Jerusalem? not for me.

OK

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