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Those 6N's Rivalries

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Post by yappysnap Sun 03 Jan 2016, 8:54 am

Just curious to see peoples thoughts on this. A lot is made of the whole England v Wales thing, but is that competitive spirit/dislike actually still as strong as it used to be?

For me I'd say the competitive side is as strong as ever. I have nothing against the Welsh, but they are definitely the fans that give out the most banter (digs) and they're the team that's probably caused England the most pain recently. They're also some of the best fans to chat rugby with in person, and from the times when I've randomly ended up watching games alongside them, can take criticism, a loss and a bit of mocking very well (as well as give it out). But they are definitely the team I dread losing to!

On the pitch I feel there are a few scores to settle as well namely that drubbing in Cardiff, and then the RWC loss (shudders). I hope who ever plays for England remembers those two defeats and uses that pain to make them come out with passion and play right on the edge. The 6n's is all about these historic games, where there is so much back story to every meeting, and this years England v Wales should be particularly spicy.

What other big rivalries are there in the 6N's now?

Feel free to let this become the wumming thread too...

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Post by rainbow-warrior Sun 03 Jan 2016, 9:46 am

As wonderful as it is to beat England let's be honest it is not a rare thing. History shows that we are pretty even.

Wales v Ireland is a far more exciting game for the past 15 or so years.
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Post by yappysnap Sun 03 Jan 2016, 10:00 am

I'd agree with that, from a playing perspective beating Ireland probably shows better form. Beating Wales just feels better.

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Post by Shifty Sun 03 Jan 2016, 3:56 pm

I have never really enjoyed Wales and Ireland matches, I think all those dire games in the 90's have left scars on most Welsh people. Neither side was capable of stringing two passes together if you happened to be the home team. the 1993 loss to Ireland is still the worst game of rugby I have ever seen. If you watched Neil Jenkins in that game you'd be amazed he got another cap for Wales.
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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 03 Jan 2016, 7:20 pm

Is it being 'arrogant' to suggest that all home nations biggest game, if not the team that they most like to beat is England?

From my perspective it would be beating the most in form team & this year you could make a case for every side bar Italy.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sun 03 Jan 2016, 8:50 pm

Is it being 'arrogant' to suggest that all home nations biggest game, if not the team that they most like to beat is England?

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Post by yappysnap Sun 03 Jan 2016, 9:48 pm

We'll all the other Home Nations certainly up their games a few levels when playing England.

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Post by Notch Sun 03 Jan 2016, 11:09 pm

Well the hardest team to beat for us, historically, is France. Even now I feel much more confident and comfortable if we're up against England or Wales than I do when we play France- despite the fact the French haven't been as good as either England or Wales for quite a few years.

So beating France is always the most satisfying result, despite other teams being better than they currently are.
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Post by whocares Sun 03 Jan 2016, 11:28 pm

Beating England is the most statisfying thing for the average French rugby supporter but to be honest I would swap one or two of those victories against England for one against Wales which we haven't beaten since 2011.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:21 am

I enjoy Wales games against England, Ireland and France. Games against Scotland and Italy always seem to be a given, and I don't see that changing this year. I think I also enjoy the matches against the former 3 because they absolutely hate the Welsh and always raise their game a few notches just to be able to compete with us. It's beautiful.

#WalesForTheGrandSlam16

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:00 pm

I really want to see Scotland beat Wales. My dad's a Welshy and his winding up has reached intolerable levels.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:08 pm

A Calcutta Cup game is always a special event for me. I've lived close to half my life in England surrounded by English rugby fans and married an English chick so I've always enjoyed the banter of those games (at least until kick-off, although thankfully we had three victories in the 2000s whilst I was still down south).

The only other significant and new rivallry is the annual Wooden Spoon contest with Italy Crying or Very sad

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:34 pm

I love the 6N, always have, always will. I remember thirty years ago, my father would take me to watch Wales, as I grew older, I was then on the trips away. My first ever trip was out in Ireland in about 1994-95 when Neil Jenkins scored all our points and we won, I was only about 17-18 and had the time of my life.

For me though, the rivalries have been cyclical. When I was a kid in the eighties it was always about beating France, but I kind of thought that for the English it was about beating Wales. Through the 90's we always had a good ding dong with the Scotts, I remember us never getting a win at Murrayfield for love nor money. In the 00's it had to be Italy with us being just as crap as them, although we did improve from about 2003 onwards and started giving England a run for their money.

Now though for me at this time and decade, our biggest rivals in the 6N has to be Ireland, since the Celtic league was formed, and since Gatland has been in charge, the rivalry between the two nations has been quietly simmering getting more tense every year, last year for me it was at boiling point.

So for me, for the moment, Wale's biggest rivals in the 6N are Ireland.

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Post by Cyril Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:41 pm

'Le Crunch' with France will always be the big one for me, regardless of the form of either side leading up to it. There's something pretty special about the Anglo-French rivalry.

The tournament itself needs a serious shake-up soon though. I think the crazy final weekend of last year's competition makes us forget there's usually a high number of turgid games played in Feb/March mudbaths. Hopefully the work done on the Scottish and Welsh pitches will improve this somewhat.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:44 pm

The whole Wales v England thing is, for me, a hangover from the difficulty in beating them in the 80's, 90's and early 2000s.  Growing up and getting into rugby and rugby support smack bang in the middle of that has developed in me an ingrained belief that England is the 'big one', just because it seemed impossible on so many occasions.  I believe there are a generation like me who feel the same.  Like I say though, it's more a back handed compliment for actually how difficult it was to beat them.  It's not hatred.  saying that, there's probably a generation before me that feels some sort of political angst towards England and the English government for the treatment of industry, etc. but for my age group (born in the late 70s) we don't really feel that IMO, unless there's something passed down from previous generations.  It's all about the sport for us instead.  And the 'big one' thing is wearing off a bit now that beating them is not such a novelty.

Ireland seems to be the 'grudge' match for Wales now - just because of close results in recent times, but with Ireland handing us some whoopings too.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:13 pm

Scotland haven't needed an opposition in recent years.

We've done perfectly well to beat ourselves.

Matron (etc).
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:52 pm

Interesting points on the Ireland grudge match. I guess you could also add in the factor of big gobs like Keith Wood and Alan Quinlan always talking up their team, and for the most part when they've done so Ireland have gone on to lose! Gatland is still vilified by certain sections in Ireland for some reason, was he not the man to help bring Irish rugby out of the stone age?

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Post by eirebilly Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

Personally, I like the Wales - Ireland matches. Always a bit of niggle, banter and enjoyable days out at both stadiums supported well by both sets of fans. for all the grief that Gatland gets from some sections of the Irish crowd, he always has my respect. An excellent coach in my books thumbsup
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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Jan 2016, 4:41 pm

I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.
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Post by BamBam Mon 04 Jan 2016, 5:28 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

Agreed

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Post by Gwlad Mon 04 Jan 2016, 7:50 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of 6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 8:00 pm

Poor wum.

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Post by Gwlad Mon 04 Jan 2016, 9:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Poor wum.


Stating what appears to you to be obvious is even poorer

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Jan 2016, 9:42 pm

Gwlad wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003
, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of  6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

It was like that before then it's just been enhanced considerably since.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 04 Jan 2016, 9:59 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003
, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of  6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

It was like that before then it's just been enhanced considerably since.

And mods encouraging wumming. Brilliant.

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Post by Gwlad Tue 05 Jan 2016, 12:40 am

7.5

Get over yourself

Its not wumming just because you disagree and don't like the opinion of another poster.

However you choose to shout WUM at every opportunity when you disagree and don't like the opinion of another poster (or probably just my opines).

FACT England won RWC 2003
FACT Every year, ad nauseam, we hear how well they are going to do in this year's 6 Nations, even this year!
FACT They don't do very well each year (except 2011 when they won) They could, should and nearly do but seem to have been unable to convert
FACT They have overwhelming resources in relation to the other home Unions and shoudl be doing better
FACT Selection has been an issue, specifically consistency and the new broom philosophy that lead Lancaster to discard a true centre for a willo the wisp in Burgess and put Barritt out of position in a CRUNCH game against Wales
FACT They have been lead into one of the most embarassing blind alleys at the last RWC by an incompetent coach compounded by a Union that seems equally clueless and yet was talking itself up as a World beater

Because it is unpalatable you call it a WUM. It's the facts so if they wind you up, that's your problem.

No i suggest you find something else to get upset about. I am not making personal remarks i am just relating the FACTS about England.

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Post by Cyril Tue 05 Jan 2016, 1:24 am

Most fans get on really well.

Gwlad is a nasty c*nt.

Grow up you silly tw*t.

Mods, grow a pair and sort him out please. He's wrecking every thread.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 05 Jan 2016, 1:58 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003
, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of  6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

It was like that before then it's just been enhanced considerably since.

And mods encouraging wumming. Brilliant.

The bolded bit is true. Some England fans need to hit reality, but they seem to be more interested in getting one over on Wales, it's sad.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 05 Jan 2016, 8:01 am

It's just getting silly Cyril.

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Post by whocares Tue 05 Jan 2016, 9:03 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003
, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of  6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

It was like that before then it's just been enhanced considerably since.

And mods encouraging wumming. Brilliant.

The bolded bit is true. Some England fans need to hit reality, but they seem to be more interested in getting one over on Wales, it's sad.

The reverse is also true and to be honest , although I do not read all the Anglo-welsh bickering threads , there seem to be a lot of Welsh frustration directed to English posters for no good reasons. I do not recall seeing many posters here "bigging up" England more than it should really : having come 2nd a few times I an row make them natural contenders of the 6N. That's a fact. It's not like as if I or a Scotland fan (sorry) would be banging around about how our team will win the tournament etc. that would be deemed as arrogance.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 9:08 am

Welsh wum spoils thread shocker......

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Post by BamBam Tue 05 Jan 2016, 9:25 am

Cyril wrote:Most fans get on really well.

Gwlad is a nasty c*nt.

Grow up you silly tw*t.

Mods, grow a pair and sort him out please. He's wrecking every thread.

clap clap clap clap

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 05 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Welsh wum spoils thread shocker......

We all have our more patriotic than should be brethren so lets please not get on our high horses over this. OK

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Post by BamBam Tue 05 Jan 2016, 9:52 am

I haven't spotted any other deliberate wind ups posted on every single thread by any other poster of any nationality thumbsup

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 10:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Welsh wum spoils thread shocker......

We all have our more patriotic than should be brethren so lets please not get on our high horses over this. OK

It's nothing to do with patriotism LordD, it's just wumming. The same poster just trawls threads about England and looks to derail them. I'm sorry to tarnish the Welsh as on the majority as they're a really good bunch.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 05 Jan 2016, 10:09 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Welsh wum spoils thread shocker......

We all have our more patriotic than should be brethren so lets please not get on our high horses over this. OK

It's nothing to do with patriotism LordD, it's just wumming. The same poster just trawls threads about England and looks to derail them. I'm sorry to tarnish the Welsh as on the majority they're a really good bunch.

I'll second that. If you look at Gwlad's posting history then 90% are attacking/wumming England, possibly 5% are on mixed England/ international threads which are not WUMS and very occasionally he'll post on a welsh thread.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:11 am

It's pretty grim reading......

Gwlad wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland all see England as the biggest rivalry for their own varying reasons.

It doesn't always relate however to the biggest or best games of the tournament.

They do, because we all know how much England fans rate their side because of their performance in RWC 2003, even though they have the 4th worst record in terms of  6 Nations Championship success (we've won more games though etc etc)

Even in the face of last RWC performance there is no humility. hope Eddie jones can bring some and perhaps some success so their talk is finally , at last, backed up by results.

i've a feeling in the short term there will be more of the same , mainly because lancaster bred schoolboys and there is no leaders in the side.

Gwlad wrote:
Pretty sure that all England's ills will be put right by Jones, lets face it it can't get worse, and no doubt 6 Nations dominance will be followed by a glorious English RWC in Japan...interspersed with a successful England dominated Lions tour of NZ. (best send the dwarves a heads up)

Gwlad wrote:
Goes without saying England will come 2nd in the 6 Nations (even though they are 8th in the world)

Gwlad wrote:Of course if anyone bothered to study form they'd know that post RWC is invariably a Welsh 6 Nations.

Of course such a result can only be allowed to happen after England have realized that their chat is not going tone enough to do it this year, again.

If only it was though, England would have won everything including the last RWC

Gwlad wrote:Elite by name but going through the squad in the context of the debacle of the RWC I don't actually think many of the players are elite

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Post by BamBam Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:22 am

#obsessed

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:23 am

Very sad indeed.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:33 am

Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:34 am

To be fair personal attacks mean you lose any argument.
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:37 am

I just wanted to point out some of the double standards on this forum, it is rife on here, but that is the V2 way I suppose.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:39 am

LordDowlais wrote:Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

Expressing an opinion which doesn't match yours is not actually offensive in itself, even if its about Wales.

Sometimes Cyril (like a lot of us) crosses the line but saying he doesn't like the Welsh anthem isn't the same as what a couple of Welsh ex pats do any time they come online.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

Gwlad is consistently trolling English threads, you obviously don't see it as the normal Welsh poster has little interest in English threads.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:49 am

lostinwales wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

Expressing an opinion which doesn't match yours is not actually offensive in itself, even if its about Wales.

Sometimes Cyril (like a lot of us) crosses the line but saying he doesn't like the Welsh anthem isn't the same as what a couple of Welsh ex pats do any time they come online.

I did not say that he said he did not like the Welsh anthem, he was openly taking the p1ss out of it.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:51 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

Gwlad is consistently trolling English threads, you obviously don't see it as the normal Welsh poster has little interest in English threads.

I must admit, I do not go on the English threads that much, so perhaps I have not seen the extent of his p1ss taking, but there are guilty people on both sides.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:54 am

No doubt LordD, almost everything that he types is a WUM against the English(on threads about English rugby), it's just bizarre.

It just gets extremley boring seeing a poster detail every thread.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:55 am

Even on the anthem thread gwlad has posted his obessional comments.

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Post by BamBam Tue 05 Jan 2016, 11:55 am

To be fair to Cyril, LD, I was slightly amused by "celebrities" being in the translation too!

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Post by lostinwales Tue 05 Jan 2016, 12:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cyril was on another thread poking fun at the Welsh national anthem. Why don't you lot go over to that thread and have a go at him as well ? He is doing the same thing as Gwlad is doing.

Gwlad is consistently trolling English threads, you obviously don't see it as the normal Welsh poster has little interest in English threads.

I must admit, I do not go on the English threads that much, so perhaps I have not seen the extent of his p1ss taking, but there are guilty people on both sides.

Check out Gwlad's posting history. (Just in case - profile->statistics->posts)

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