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Time to see a more expansive style of rugby in the Six Nations

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jan 2016, 10:45 am

First topic message reminder :

Interesting article in the Telegraph by Steve James, demonstrating the attacking stats from the World Cup.

"In seven matches against other Tier One nations New Zealand and Australia scored 25 tries and kicked just 18 penalties, while in 21 games the eight other Tier One nations between them managed just 26 tries and kicked 79 penalties against other Tier One opponents."

"The basics of the set-piece are still kings: 50 per cent of tries at the World Cup were scored from line-outs, and only Ireland had a better success rate than New Zealand’s 95 per cent at the line-out, while New Zealand had the most steals at 24."

"As for the scrummage, 15 per cent of tries came from that (and only 12 per cent from turnovers), and New Zealand scored most tries from scrummages, with their scrum “least likely to be reset and one of the least likely to end in a penalty or free-kick”."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/12081583/Six-Nations-sides-must-realise-it-is-time-to-change.html

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:50 pm

Oh, you were going for Wales as a bigger scalp...fair enough. In the spirit of the 'differences of opinion' seen over the last few years, good look with the traditional 3rd place behind the inferior big brother!

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Post by eirebilly Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:True that mikey. no chance against England but Wales are a good target.

For a big scalp yes you're correct in saying Wales. Big scalp is not something I'd use to describe England, minor scalp perhaps? Whistle

So by your reckoning, the twice in row 6N champions Ireland must be a monumental scalp? Whistle
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:56 pm

gregortree wrote:The last time we saw expansive rugby in Europe. ? Well I think of Gallic flair in the final days of amateurism, before defences became more 'professional' organised and fitter and choked off that type of expansiveness. Shame in a way for attractive rugby. Even Gallic flair seems to have been drilled out of Europe.

I thought the final day of the 6Ns last year (or the most recent day of 6N matches) was quite expansive stuff. Lots of points, lots of attacking rugby.

Now how do we get coaches to have their teams play with that kind of mindset from the start of the 6Ns is a different question altogether.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:56 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I think you meant to say winning coaches like Gatland Wink - Gatland wins all 52.38%.

Just being precise  Smile

SL Win ratio - 60.9%

I'll say this before Mikey gets back - Gatland record vs England is 60% though....

60% wow! that's impressive Whistle

Congratulations Stu, chose your opponents carefully there, and I almost thought this was boxing for a moment... If you look at Gatland's trophy record whilst coaching all teams then it is quite impressive. That alone would put him up there with the top coaches in the world right now. In other words, Gatland is winning Smile.

It would have been better if you'd used those words in the first place, instead of 'Gatland wins all'.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh, you were going for Wales as a bigger scalp...fair enough. In the spirit of the 'differences of opinion' seen over the last few years, good look with the traditional 3rd place behind the inferior big brother!

Nothing traditional about that, but Wales do have a good tournament-win record in the 6 Nations Smile.

eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:True that mikey. no chance against England but Wales are a good target.

For a big scalp yes you're correct in saying Wales. Big scalp is not something I'd use to describe England, minor scalp perhaps? Whistle

So by your reckoning, the twice in row 6N champions Ireland must be a monumental scalp? Whistle

They were going for that Billy yes. Unfortunately Argentina knocked you down a peg, back to our level Hug.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 14 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I think you meant to say winning coaches like Gatland Wink - Gatland wins all 52.38%.

Just being precise  Smile

SL Win ratio - 60.9%

I'll say this before Mikey gets back - Gatland record vs England is 60% though....

60% wow! that's impressive Whistle

Congratulations Stu, chose your opponents carefully there, and I almost thought this was boxing for a moment... If you look at Gatland's trophy record whilst coaching all teams then it is quite impressive. That alone would put him up there with the top coaches in the world right now. In other words, Gatland is winning Smile.

It would have been better if you'd used those words in the first place, instead of 'Gatland wins all'.

Ah well, I'm not going to lose sleep over it unlike you.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:01 pm

I would class any side that can get out of the WC pool as a bigger scalp than a side that cannot, especially when the side that cannot are playing all their games at home. A side that cannot get out of their group I would class as small fry.

So going by percentages or ratio's a side with only a 50% win rate in the poll stages of the previous WC, cannot be seen as a bigger scalp than a team that reaches 75%. I am not going to name the nations because I do not want to cause any friction on here. Whistle


Run

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh, you were going for Wales as a bigger scalp...fair enough. In the spirit of the 'differences of opinion' seen over the last few years, good look with the traditional 3rd place behind the inferior big brother!

Nothing traditional about that, but Wales do have a good tournament-win record in the 6 Nations Smile.

eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:True that mikey. no chance against England but Wales are a good target.

For a big scalp yes you're correct in saying Wales. Big scalp is not something I'd use to describe England, minor scalp perhaps? Whistle

So by your reckoning, the twice in row 6N champions Ireland must be a monumental scalp? Whistle

They were going for that Billy yes. Unfortunately Argentina knocked you down a peg, back to our level Hug.

They do have a good record. Same as Englands.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I would class any side that can get out of the WC pool as a bigger scalp than a side that cannot, especially when the side that cannot are playing all their games at home. A side that cannot get out of their group I would class as small fry.

So going by percentages or ratio's a side with only a 50% win rate in the poll stages of the previous WC, cannot be seen as a bigger scalp than a team that reaches 75%. I am not going to name the nations because I do not want to cause any friction on here. Whistle


Run

Next step, finish above those small fry I guess!

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Next step, finish above those small fry I guess!

Nah, it's win or bust I say. You get nothing for coming anywhere other than 1st.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh, you were going for Wales as a bigger scalp...fair enough. In the spirit of the 'differences of opinion' seen over the last few years, good look with the traditional 3rd place behind the inferior big brother!

Nothing traditional about that, but Wales do have a good tournament-win record in the 6 Nations Smile.

eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:True that mikey. no chance against England but Wales are a good target.

For a big scalp yes you're correct in saying Wales. Big scalp is not something I'd use to describe England, minor scalp perhaps? Whistle

So by your reckoning, the twice in row 6N champions Ireland must be a monumental scalp? Whistle

They were going for that Billy yes. Unfortunately Argentina knocked you down a peg, back to our level Hug.

They do have a good record. Same as Englands.

thumbsup

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Next step, finish above those small fry I guess!

Nah, it's win or bust I say. You get nothing for coming anywhere other than 1st.

Fair enough. We'll put to bed the talk of the WC group then.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:They do have a good record. Same as Englands.

All that whilst playing turgid one dimensional gatlandball rugby compared to England's cavalier, swashbuckling, expansive off the cuff stuff. England must be throwing the ball about willy nilly, some might call you the village idiots of world rugby for doing that. Wink

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:We'll put to bed the talk of the WC group then.

Why ? Only the big boys can get out of their WC groups, it's the small fry that go home early. Cool


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Post by eirebilly Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
All that whilst playing turgid one dimensional gatlandball rugby compared to England's cavalier, swashbuckling, expansive off the cuff stuff. England must be throwing the ball about willy nilly, some might call you the village idiots of world rugby for doing that. Wink

In fairness, I did think that England were playing some excellent rugby until the RWC when, what I can only describe as a publicity stunt, forced them to change tact and it cost them. If Jones gets them playing in the same direction as they were prior to the RWC, they will be a very good team.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

You're still hung up about this aren't you? In a semi serious post again I think if England were trying to play in a similar style to Wales in the last couple of years we would have finished lower than the 2nd places we achieved. We haven't got the players to the same quality, or didn't in the last couple of years, to play that way and get as a good a set of results as we got with the more open style we implemented.

Looking at the backs that Wales have available though, if more emphasis had been placed on giving them a bit more ball rather than the more forward orientated play that is the core of Gatlands play I'd have said they would have been challenging more for GSs than 3rd places.

That's not saying anything other than a more open style has benefitted England and would have benefitted Wales in my view. If you think England could have dominated teams up front with the guys we had fair enough, I don't see it. Similarly if you feel cutting loose a bit would have meant that Wales would be battling it out at the bottom of the 6Ns fair enough.

Those are my actual view points of the 2 teams.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:18 pm

Chill out No 7&1/2, I am only teasing you mun.

Anyway, what do you care so much about, according to the English on here winning the 6N is meaningless.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:20 pm

I know, just trying to move back to an actual point, as I said. The 6Ns is meaningless if you don't finish 1st, according to the Welsh anyway?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I know, just trying to move back to an actual point, as I said. The 6Ns is meaningless if you don't finish 1st, according to the Welsh anyway?

We have never said the 6N is meaningless, we always try and win it, it's the best thing us lot can hope for, so why would we say it is meaningless.

Win or bust I said, you get nothing for finishing below 1st.

It's the supporters of a nation who have only won one 6N in 13 years that think it is meaningless, now, I wonder why that would be ? Laugh

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Post by eirebilly Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:25 pm

And the circle is complete, this thread was going well for a while...
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Don't know I've only come across 1 poster here who says it's meaningless in the context of world rugby to judge yourself only on the 6Ns. Who else has said it and we'll ask for more detail?

Or we could go along the lines of you actually try to win it and still finish below a team who thinks it's meaningless?

Whichever way you want to play it reall?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:27 pm

Did try to bring it back to a point which isn't saying my dad is bigger than yours bill!

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:31 pm

You need to look at TightHead's, gregortree's and losinwales's posts to see why this has ended up the way it has, I was just trying to have a bit of fun with the issue, but No 7&1/2 got all precious about it. Hug

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:35 pm

Phew. Thank goodness I thought you were being serious in some of the earlier posts!

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:You need to look at TightHead's, gregortree's and losinwales's posts to see why this has ended up the way it has, I was just trying to have a bit of fun with the issue, but No 7&1/2 got all precious about it. Hug

I stand by my original post - Gatland is one dimensional and not using the talented players he has to their full potential.
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Post by TightHEAD Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:39 pm

Gatland needs to let his hair down a bit and let them play rugby, all this bish bash bosh up the middle is dull and holds the 6 nations back.
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Post by TightHEAD Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:40 pm

I hope the British & Irish Lions wait until they see what the other coaches bring to the party before handing him the Lions job again.
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Post by gregortree Thu 14 Jan 2016, 2:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Chill out No 7&1/2, I am only teasing you mun.

Anyway, what do you care so much about, according to the English on here winning the 6N is meaningless.

I was only teasing you Lordy, and Mikey mun, sorry if upset was taken.

And btw not ' the English' but I recall one Englishman..
I have always valued the 6n and have never said otherwise. Same for most English posters. Im  Happy to clap clap Wales achievements in that regard.
England's turn next under Eddie to elevate those close seconds into outright championships, or so we all fervently hope.
Then the world.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:00 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Gatland needs to let his hair down a bit and let them play rugby, all this bish bash bosh up the middle is dull and holds the 6 nations back.

The frustration for me is that Wales's core style of play is second nature to the players by now and it's not asking too much for it to be added to / elaborated a bit. If we were less predictable, then in theory we'd be harder for the opposition to shut out. I think Gatland (or Howley) gives too much credence to the whole 'earning the right to go wide thing', which I've never agreed with. Attack where there's space, regardless of how many phases you've been through.


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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:01 pm

gregortree wrote:I was only teasing you Lordy, and Mikey mun, sorry if upset was taken.

No need to explain, I am not upset, that could not be further from the truth, so don't worry. Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:07 pm

So what is your view on this topic then LD from a Wales team perspective?

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Post by gregortree Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
gregortree wrote:I was only teasing you Lordy, and Mikey mun, sorry if upset was taken.

No need to explain, I am not upset, that could not be further from the truth, so don't worry. Very Happy
Hug

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So what is your view on this topic then LD from a Wales team perspective?

I would rather we play in a style that brings silverware, of course I would like to see Wales throw it about a bit more, but it's not as if we are using the England Sir Clive Woodward tactics though, the up your jumper stuff, but I would like to see a bit more offloading rather than Jamie Roberts or George North smashing into people with the ball in hand, but to say we do not use an expansive tactic ever is a bit of a myth. If we won the 6N with these tactics Gatland like's to employ, you would not see me complaining.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:14 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
The frustration for me is that Wales's core style of play is second nature to the players by now and it's not asking too much for it to be added to / elaborated a bit. If we were less predictable, then in theory we'd be harder for the opposition to shut out. I think Gatland (or Howley) gives too much credence to the whole 'earning the right to go wide thing', which I've never agreed with. Attack where there's space, regardless of how many phases you've been through.

Sums up my views of Ireland under Schmidt perfectly.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So what is your view on this topic then LD from a Wales team perspective?

I would rather we play in a style that brings silverware, of course I would like to see Wales throw it about a bit more, but it's not as if we are using the England Sir Clive Woodward tactics though, the up your jumper stuff, but I would like to see a bit more offloading rather than Jamie Roberts or George North smashing into people with the ball in hand, but to say we do not use an expansive tactic ever is a bit of a myth. If we won the 6N with these tactics Gatland like's to employ, you would not see me complaining.

I haven't seen (m)any saying you can't play more expansively. Yes we would all like to see GSs no matter what, preferably in an exciting style. Do you think the current more conservative style is the best way to go for this group (or the wider group of Welsh players); or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So what is your view on this topic then LD from a Wales team perspective?

I would rather we play in a style that brings silverware, of course I would like to see Wales throw it about a bit more, but it's not as if we are using the England Sir Clive Woodward tactics though, the up your jumper stuff, but I would like to see a bit more offloading rather than Jamie Roberts or George North smashing into people with the ball in hand, but to say we do not use an expansive tactic ever is a bit of a myth. If we won the 6N with these tactics Gatland like's to employ, you would not see me complaining.

Speaking of myths!!! Erm
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote: or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

I do not know, and neither would anybody else, not unless it is tried, but why move away from a tried and tested method and risk it all by doing something different, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If we were going to move to a more expansive style, then we would need personnel changes to boot, so that would mean dropping Jamie Roberts and playing Scott Williams and John Davies in the centers, it would mean dropping North and Cuthbert and playing Amos and Walker on the wings, I do not think Gatland would drop his tried and trusted men to change his style though, and to be honest, I would rather he did not drop Roberts as well, he is proven, and the 6N is not a place to be experimenting.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:26 pm

It's a forum, it doesn't need to be scientifically proven just your own opinion on whether performances, results, aspects of your game would be improved. I guess by your answer though you figure the game plan works ok at present.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:29 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

I do not know, and neither would anybody else, not unless it is tried, but why move away from a tried and tested method and risk it all by doing something different, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If we were going to move to a more expansive style, then we would need personnel changes to boot, so that would mean dropping Jamie Roberts and playing Scott Williams and John Davies in the centers, it would mean dropping North and Cuthbert and playing Amos and Walker on the wings, I do not think Gatland would drop his tried and trusted men to change his style though, and to be honest, I would rather he did not drop Roberts as well, he is proven, and the 6N is not a place to be experimenting.

I disagree with almost every part of this.

First of all, it is broke, because we're not beating the Big Three. Matching their physicality isn't enough. Secondly, a change in style wouldn't need wholesale changes of personnel! Jamie Roberts is really underrated as a footballer, and it's largely because all Gatland asks him to do it run hard and straight, when there's much more to his game than that. And I really don't see why spreading the ball wide would need us to drop those three wingers. Could you explain?

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Post by Marshes Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

I do not know, and neither would anybody else, not unless it is tried, but why move away from a tried and tested method and risk it all by doing something different, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If we were going to move to a more expansive style, then we would need personnel changes to boot, so that would mean dropping Jamie Roberts and playing Scott Williams and John Davies in the centers, it would mean dropping North and Cuthbert and playing Amos and Walker on the wings, I do not think Gatland would drop his tried and trusted men to change his style though, and to be honest, I would rather he did not drop Roberts as well, he is proven, and the 6N is not a place to be experimenting.

I would have thought Roberts can play a more subtle game when he is not being used a as bulldozer, no?

I think as players get bigger and knowledge of the affects of brain injury deepen, there is going to be an issue of how players are used and if we are taking the appropriate care of them. Some of the impacts are colossal and for young players receiving concussions on a regular basis the impact can last a lifetime. This is not only a Welsh issue, George North sprung to mind but look at Sexton or Luke Marshall, both could be one more head injury from retirement. Looking at more expansive plans at least alleviates some of the strain on the player's physical limits and respects their futures.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:35 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

I do not know, and neither would anybody else, not unless it is tried, but why move away from a tried and tested method and risk it all by doing something different, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If we were going to move to a more expansive style, then we would need personnel changes to boot, so that would mean dropping Jamie Roberts and playing Scott Williams and John Davies in the centers, it would mean dropping North and Cuthbert and playing Amos and Walker on the wings, I do not think Gatland would drop his tried and trusted men to change his style though, and to be honest, I would rather he did not drop Roberts as well, he is proven, and the 6N is not a place to be experimenting.

I disagree with almost every part of this.

First of all, it is broke because we're not beating the Big Three. Matching their physicality isn't enough. Secondly, a change in style wouldn't need wholesale changes of personnel! Jamie Roberts is really underrated as a footballer, and it's largely because all Gatland asks him to do it run hard and straight, when there's much more to his game than that. And I really don't see why spreading the ball wide would need us to drop those three wingers. Could you explain?

Well Cuthbert cannot play rubgy for a start, he can only run in a straight line with the ball in is hands, he would be useless when it comes to hitting the the line at an angle to receive a pass or trying to run into space, also, if George North or Jamie Roberts were not playing, the temptation to make players run at other players instead of space would be gone.


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Post by TightHEAD Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:36 pm

Play for the gaps fellas, not the contact.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:42 pm

Still skirting around your answer LD, do you think the current game plan and players chosen would give you greatest reward/results (as that's what you were focusing on earlier)?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: or would implementing a different style bring greater rewards?

I do not know, and neither would anybody else, not unless it is tried, but why move away from a tried and tested method and risk it all by doing something different, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If we were going to move to a more expansive style, then we would need personnel changes to boot, so that would mean dropping Jamie Roberts and playing Scott Williams and John Davies in the centers, it would mean dropping North and Cuthbert and playing Amos and Walker on the wings, I do not think Gatland would drop his tried and trusted men to change his style though, and to be honest, I would rather he did not drop Roberts as well, he is proven, and the 6N is not a place to be experimenting.

I disagree with almost every part of this.

First of all, it is broke because we're not beating the Big Three. Matching their physicality isn't enough. Secondly, a change in style wouldn't need wholesale changes of personnel! Jamie Roberts is really underrated as a footballer, and it's largely because all Gatland asks him to do it run hard and straight, when there's much more to his game than that. And I really don't see why spreading the ball wide would need us to drop those three wingers. Could you explain?

Well Cuthbert cannot play rubgy for a start, he can only run in a straight line with the ball in is hands, he would be useless when it comes to hitting the the line at an angle to receive a pass or trying to run into space, also, if George North or Jamie Roberts were not playing, the temptation to make players run at other players instead of space would be gone.

I'd drop Cuthbert too, but seeing as you brought it up, why would a player who can  'only run in a straight line' suffer from his team playing a wide game? Surely this straight line can be anywhere on the pitch?

North and Roberts can do much more than run into contact, so again a change in style wouldn't automatically require a change in personnel.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:45 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still skirting around your answer LD, do you think the current game plan and players chosen would give you greatest reward/results (as that's what you were focusing on earlier)?

Yes I have said this already, to change the style would mean to change the players, what are you looking for here ?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:46 pm

LordDowlais wrote:To change the style would mean to change the players

It really wouldn't.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:47 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:North and Roberts can do much more than run into contact, so again a change in style wouldn't automatically require a change in personnel.

Ok fair enough, I just reckon, with using more elusive players, like Amos and Walker, a run into space tactic would be much better, and a run at the opposition tactic would be less likely.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:49 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:To change the style would mean to change the players

It really wouldn't.

Well I am yet to see Jamie Roberts jinking and sidestepping his way through tackles, and I have been watching him for years, he never did this when he first came onto the scene with Cardiff Blues when he was playing on the wing and at fullback, and I am yet to see him do this whilst playing in the center.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:North and Roberts can do much more than run into contact, so again a change in style wouldn't automatically require a change in personnel.

Ok fair enough, I just reckon, with using more elusive players, like Amos and Walker, a run into space tactic would be much better, and a run at the opposition tactic would be less likely.

But it shouldn't be one or the other. To be dangerous we need to have both, and keep the opposition guessing.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 14 Jan 2016, 3:53 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:But it shouldn't be one or the other. To be dangerous we need to have both, and keep the opposition guessing.

Well, we are either playing bish, bash, bosh or we ain't. We cannot play two styles at once.

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