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Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

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GeordieFalcon
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 Jan 2016, 11:56 am

First topic message reminder :

This has been taken from Shane Williams's column in the rugby paper, he seems to have forgotten about Scott Williams's injury, and I must say, he is lighting the touch paper between Wales and Ireland early this year, especially with this little tidbit:-

Going to face Ireland, the reigning champions, in the first game is bound to be difficult, but they are not the side they once were. They don’t have the same strength in depth as they used to and they lack firepower compared to when they had Brian O’Driscoll leading their back division. wrote:

Oh well it looks as though the rivalry is starting to simmer nicely again, come the 6N it will be at volcanic eruption levels. Laugh

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/shane-williams/24818/shane-williams-column-ireland-match-holds-the-key-to-another-wales-grand-slam/

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 10:28 am

eirebilly wrote:Although Wales are notoriously slow starters to the 6N I feel that Gatland has the edge on Schmidt. Gatland always seems to outsmart Schmidt's tactics so i expect a very close game with Wales edging it.

Except two seasons ago in Dublin, when Schmidt played a tactical blinder and Gatland had no answer to it.

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Post by munkian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 10:33 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Although Wales are notoriously slow starters to the 6N I feel that Gatland has the edge on Schmidt. Gatland always seems to outsmart Schmidt's tactics so i expect a very close game with Wales edging it.

Except two seasons ago in Dublin, when Schmidt played a tactical blinder and Gatland had no answer to it.

Is that when Schmidt was the new St Patrick and unplayable as he changed his tactics EVERY game... only he didn't...
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 11:20 am

It was when Ireland beat us as comprehensively as I've seen in a long time.

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Post by munkian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 12:05 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was when Ireland beat us as comprehensively as I've seen in a long time.

Yupp, but they've used the same tactics since and haven't.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 12:13 pm

munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was when Ireland beat us as comprehensively as I've seen in a long time.

Yupp, but they've used the same tactics since and haven't.

I didn't claim Schmidt changes his tactics every game, I claimed he out-thought Gatland a couple of seasons ago.

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Post by munkian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 12:25 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was when Ireland beat us as comprehensively as I've seen in a long time.

Yupp, but they've used the same tactics since and haven't.

I didn't claim Schmidt changes his tactics every game, I claimed he out-thought Gatland a couple of seasons ago.

Wasn't suggesting you did, but the press certainly creamed over this supposed ability at the time.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 Jan 2016, 12:30 pm

He was flavour of the month.

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Post by Gwlad Tue 12 Jan 2016, 3:27 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Obsession.

By Calvin Klein?

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 12 Jan 2016, 11:56 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Warbs is due back soon, but could do with a longer rest anyway, perhaps a sabbatical. AWJ will be captain, a good choice it is too.

Is he really due a long rest, he's been managed pretty well since he was first to sign a DC.  I agree it wouldn't hurt if he sat out the first game against Ireland but can't see him being out long.

His body has been battered. Mccaw and Pocock took long stints out of the game and had a long international career, Pocock will likely continue playing. That's the type of sabbatical that Warburton needs and I'd give it to him now. We have good 7's at each Welsh team, let's try them out whilst he is resting up.

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Post by Gwlad Fri 15 Jan 2016, 5:38 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Warbs is due back soon, but could do with a longer rest anyway, perhaps a sabbatical. AWJ will be captain, a good choice it is too.

Is he really due a long rest, he's been managed pretty well since he was first to sign a DC.  I agree it wouldn't hurt if he sat out the first game against Ireland but can't see him being out long.

His body has been battered. Mccaw and Pocock took long stints out of the game and had a long international career, Pocock will likely continue playing. That's the type of sabbatical that Warburton needs and I'd give it to him now. We have good 7's at each Welsh team, let's try them out whilst he is resting up.

I'd agree that tips should get his chance and AWJ a run out at Capt to preserve Warbs.

I would really like to see garland use the italy game as a way to test new options in the front and back rows

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Post by munkian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:19 am

As Lydiate is still crocked we could see the return of a Sam, Tips, Talupe back row Very Happy
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:25 am

Gwlad wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Warbs is due back soon, but could do with a longer rest anyway, perhaps a sabbatical. AWJ will be captain, a good choice it is too.

Is he really due a long rest, he's been managed pretty well since he was first to sign a DC.  I agree it wouldn't hurt if he sat out the first game against Ireland but can't see him being out long.

His body has been battered. Mccaw and Pocock took long stints out of the game and had a long international career, Pocock will likely continue playing. That's the type of sabbatical that Warburton needs and I'd give it to him now. We have good 7's at each Welsh team, let's try them out whilst he is resting up.

I'd agree that tips should get his chance and AWJ a run out at Capt to preserve Warbs.

I would really like to see garland use the italy game as a way to test new options in the front and back rows

I'd like to see him use the whole tournament to look at players who'll be around at the next World Cup, and not play anyone who won't be around by then.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:39 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd like to see him use the whole tournament to look at players who'll be around at the next World Cup, and not play anyone who won't be around by then.

yeah, lets use the 6N as an experimental tool. Rolling Eyes

You sound like the English fans who think that winning the 6N is meaningless.

I am all for integrating younger players into the squad, to get them some exposure, but the 6N is not a competition for experimentation, we can use the AI's for that, when there is nothing on the line. Why would you want to sacrifice the 6N in order to "look" at players for the next WC, which is 4 years away ? We should be putting our best team out in the 6N so that we can win it.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:45 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd like to see him use the whole tournament to look at players who'll be around at the next World Cup, and not play anyone who won't be around by then.

yeah, lets use the 6N as an experimental tool. Rolling Eyes

You sound like the English fans who think that winning the 6N is meaningless.

I am all for integrating younger players into the squad, to get them some exposure, but the 6N is not a competition for experimentation, we can use the AI's for that, when there is nothing on the line. Why would you want to sacrifice the 6N in order to "look" at players for the next WC, which is 4 years away ? We should be putting our best team out in the 6N so that we can win it.

But we never experiment in the AIs either, except when we make half-a-dozen changes against Tonga or someone, struggle as a result and learn very little. I'd rather we looked at new players in meaningful matches, in a proper tournament, seeing as the four-year goal is to be competitive in meaningful matches, in a proper tournament.

Trying new players in the Six Nations doesn't mean sacrificing the Six Nations, it just means we would be using the whole four years available to build towards the World Cup. I don't see much point in playing players now who we know won't be involved then.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 15 Jan 2016, 10:52 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Trying new players in the Six Nations doesn't mean sacrificing the Six Nations, it just means we would be using the whole four years available to build towards the World Cup. I don't see much point in playing players now who we know won't be involved then.

A tournament where there is silverware and prizes to be won is not the place for testing players, we should always play our strongest 15 in the 6N, we can worry about the next WC a little closer than 4 years away. That is why we have these extra tours and AI's, they are where players should be "tested".

By saying what you are saying, you are just devaluing one of the oldest most traditional international competitions in the world.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Trying new players in the Six Nations doesn't mean sacrificing the Six Nations, it just means we would be using the whole four years available to build towards the World Cup. I don't see much point in playing players now who we know won't be involved then.

A tournament where there is silverware and prizes to be won is not the place for testing players, we should always play our strongest 15 in the 6N, we can worry about the next WC a little closer than 4 years away. That is why we have these extra tours and AI's, they are where players should be "tested".

By saying what you are saying, you are just devaluing one of the oldest most traditional international competitions in the world.

Before the advent of the AIs and when tours were rare events, players would make their Test debuts in the old Five Nations. Did that devalue the tournament?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:07 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

I'd like to see him use the whole tournament to look at players who'll be around at the next World Cup, and not play anyone who won't be around by then.

Isn't that what the Italy and Scotland games are earmarked for, bleeding new players? Wink Run

In all seriousness, I do like the idea of looking at players with an eye on the next RWC, the longer these players play together the better they will become. Gatland is a great coach and the players that came in due to the injuries at the RWC blended in very well, Gatland knows how to prepare players for Internationals.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:13 am

That's what I mean, Billy. Surely it's better to have a team / squad where every player will (in all likelihood) still be playing / up to it come the World Cup, than to pick players who almost certainly won't be around. Why give yourself two years to prepare when you have four?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:15 am

Oh I get you lucky and agree totally. thumbsup
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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:16 am

Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

Wow what arrogance!

If someone had wrote..."Ireland match holds key to England grand slam there would be tidal wave of "typical arrogant English"

Whats to say Wales wont get humped by Scotland, or Italy might hit a form game?

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Post by munkian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:19 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

Wow what arrogance!

If someone had wrote..."Ireland match holds key to England grand slam there would be tidal wave of "typical arrogant English"

Whats to say Wales wont get humped by Scotland, or Italy might hit a form game?

So whose WUMing now ?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:25 am

The Rugby Paper?

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Post by Cyril Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:25 am

Shane Williams?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:26 am

Shane who?

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Post by Cyril Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:27 am

laughing

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 15 Jan 2016, 12:18 pm

munkian wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

Wow what arrogance!

If someone had wrote..."Ireland match holds key to England grand slam there would be tidal wave of "typical arrogant English"

Whats to say Wales wont get humped by Scotland, or Italy might hit a form game?

So whose WUMing now ?

Well looking at the "rivalry thread" going on, with all the arrogant, etc terms being thrown at England, am I not allowed to respond when I see that title?

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Post by Guest Fri 15 Jan 2016, 1:19 pm

I reckon they all hold the key, in some way. Just can't put my finger on why.... Whistle

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Post by munkian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 1:44 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
munkian wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

Wow what arrogance!

If someone had wrote..."Ireland match holds key to England grand slam there would be tidal wave of "typical arrogant English"

Whats to say Wales wont get humped by Scotland, or Italy might hit a form game?

So whose WUMing now ?

Well looking at the "rivalry thread" going on, with all the arrogant, etc terms being thrown at England, am I not allowed to respond when I see that title?

Well, you CAN but then you are as guilty as the people you accuse of derailing other threads.
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Post by Gwlad Fri 15 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
munkian wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ireland match holds the key to another Wales Grand Slam

Wow what arrogance!

If someone had wrote..."Ireland match holds key to England grand slam there would be tidal wave of "typical arrogant English"

Whats to say Wales wont get humped by Scotland, or Italy might hit a form game?

So whose WUMing now ?

Well looking at the "rivalry thread" going on, with all the arrogant, etc terms being thrown at England, am I not allowed to respond when I see that title?

You did, thanks for your input, boots on the other foot now isn't it!

Wales and Ireland game will decide 6 Nations IMO

England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Scotland are my outside favorites and italy or France may well be getting wood

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 15 Jan 2016, 4:09 pm

Gwlad wrote:England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Only a ???? would dismiss England when they've been runners up every year since 2011, when they won it.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 15 Jan 2016, 4:38 pm

Gwlad wrote:

England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Scotland are my outside favorites and italy or France may well be getting wood

England have been competing and only lost by a gnats hair last 6N. They have also been continuously in the running since last winning it in 2011. There is also the fact that new managers bring a honeymoon period with them and Eddie Jones is one of the worlds most experienced coaches. Now I am not saying England will win it but they will be more than competitive and there in the mix come the final day. I would certainly not write them off.
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Post by lostinwales Fri 15 Jan 2016, 5:33 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Gwlad wrote:

England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Scotland are my outside favorites and italy or France may well be getting wood

England have been competing and only lost by a gnats hair last 6N. They have also been continuously in the running since last winning it in 2011. There is also the fact that new managers bring a honeymoon period with them and Eddie Jones is one of the worlds most experienced coaches. Now I am not saying England will win it but they will be more than competitive and there in the mix come the final day. I would certainly not write them off.

No doubt we'll manage to shoot ourselves in the foot at some point but I wouldn't take our poor performances in the RWC as indicative of how we'll do in the 6N.

'Wales match holds the key to another Ireland Grand Slam'

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Post by eirebilly Fri 15 Jan 2016, 6:05 pm

I have the same feeling every year with Ireland lostinwales.

Scotland concern me greatly though, as I said earlier, Cotter has got them paying their own brand of rugby instead of countering rugby. We may something special from them this up coming 6N.
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Post by nlpnlp Fri 15 Jan 2016, 6:11 pm

I think we can safely count Italy out of the potential winners list, but after that I think the teams are all much of a muchness.  Scotland performed well in the world cup and only lost to Australia due to poor refereeing.  The Irish provinces are having some very up and down results in the ERC and seem to be lacking depth for the first time in a while - also losing POC is a massive blow.  Wales, well you know what you are going to get from them, the question is can you stop them.  An aweful England team nearly beat Wales in the world cup - with a better coach they would hope to do better this time around.  France seem to have gone with a slightly saner (by their standard) coach, who has got rid of some of the dross that has been holding them back on the pitch for the last few years.

So I think every game will be the key to a grand slam, until a team is beaten.  What odds a 3 or 4 way tie at the top?

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Post by eirebilly Fri 15 Jan 2016, 6:20 pm

This may sound strange as I am an Irish fan and they have won the last two but I honestly do not expect too much from them this 6N. I think that they play with a very predictable approach that teams (coaches) can counter.

I believe that it will be between Wales and England with Ireland and Scotland fighting for 3rd and 4th place.
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Post by Gwlad Fri 15 Jan 2016, 7:13 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Only a ???? would dismiss England when they've been runners up every year since 2011, when they won it.

I haven't dismissed England have I.

I said i don't think they're in a position to compete for a win due to RWC, new manager, inconsistent selection, new style of play etc etc

I think the Scots will beat them. Is that okay or do i need to ask permission to express that view??

I think they will probably lose to either Wales or Ireland and possibly both, and that France away will be a huge test that they should rise to for the final game.

I also think they will we a very different team by the end of the tournament, but to face Scotland first off is going to be a push.

To come 2nd...for sure they are definitely in the running to achieve that again.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 15 Jan 2016, 8:06 pm

This is genuinely not meant to be a snipe, but isn't the first match always the key to a grandslam?!
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Post by wrfc1980 Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:19 pm

With biggar hobbling off gir the ospreys wales chances of the wooden spoon have just gone through the roof.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 15 Jan 2016, 9:49 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:With biggar hobbling off gir the ospreys wales chances of the wooden spoon have just gone through the roof.

Yeah probably a greater chance of that happening than you improving your spelling. Either way I wouldn't bet on it, of course if you do then come back and let us know.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 16 Jan 2016, 2:56 am

wrfc1980 wrote:With biggar hobbling off gir the ospreys wales chances of the wooden spoon have just gone through the roof.

Love it when posters take an injured player to have a cheap WUM Rolling Eyes

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 16 Jan 2016, 4:46 am

Gwlad wrote:
wrfc1980 wrote:With biggar hobbling off gir the ospreys wales chances of the wooden spoon have just gone through the roof.

Love it when posters take an injured player to have a cheap WUM Rolling Eyes

Sam Davies deputised very well I thought. I don't think Biggar is a worry, looked like a dead leg at worst.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 18 Jan 2016, 11:21 am

Gwlad wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:England will be a plucky contender but only a ???? would think they are going to come back from the autumn under new management and complete uncertainty at every position and compete this year having not done so for so long

Only a ???? would dismiss England when they've been runners up every year since 2011, when they won it.

I haven't dismissed England have I.

I said i don't think they're in a position to compete for a win due to RWC, new manager, inconsistent selection, new style of play etc etc

I think the Scots will beat them. Is that okay or do i need to ask permission to express that view??

I think they will probably lose to either Wales or Ireland and possibly both, and that France away will be a huge test that they should rise to for the final game.

I also think they will we a very different team by the end of the tournament, but to face Scotland first off is going to be a push.

To come 2nd...for sure they are definitely in the running to achieve that again.

Yes, you have dismissed England. You said only a ???? would think they'll even compete.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 18 Jan 2016, 1:45 pm

Ha, I don't see his posts but's good. The Scots will beat us, and one of Wales and Ireland, maybe both. And France will be really hard. But we will be pushing for 2nd. Classic.

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Post by Gwlad Tue 19 Jan 2016, 6:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha, I don't see his posts but's good. The Scots will beat us, and one of Wales and Ireland, maybe both. And France will be really hard. But we will be pushing for 2nd. Classic.

picard

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