We Need to Talk About Munster.

by Don Alfonso Sat 09 Jan 2016, 8:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

We really do.

What is to be done?

by Sin é Mon 18 Jan 2016, 3:36 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Putting in a few big tackles doesn't make someone a good defender. There is a lot more to it than that and this season alone has highlighted that Earl's can struggle with the bigger ball carriers and (evident during the RWC) his positioning at times. There have been a few games where his missed tackle statistics are much weaker than other options at 13 for Ireland. It isn't "guff". See the statistics for yourself.

Anyway, I actually can see both sides of the argument regarding his best position. He can tear holes in the opposition defence better than most in Ireland so you would like to see him get his hands on the ball as often as possible. However I would still worry about his defence against the "bigger" teams and his decision making when playing at centre. I think his best games in the past have been at fullback but I think that ship has sailed.

EDIT: Also, Schmidt was at the game yesterday and had a huge grin on his face after his wonderful try. He will be pushing for a starting place no doubt.

I did a comparative study of Earls v. other 13s (like BOD, Conrad Smith, Rougerie, Jon Davies etc) a few years back when he played the entire 6Ns at 13. From what I recall, Earls best tackles made/missed ratio (and in fact he made a lot more tackles than the rest of the 13s).

What is often forgotten is that BOD (who was regarded as one of the best defensive 13s around, missed loads of tackles - sometimes more than he actually made and no one thought it was an issue.

The season that Earls was 6Ns No. 13, defense guru Les Kiss was the backs coach.

by GoodinTightSpaces Mon 18 Jan 2016, 4:04 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Putting in a few big tackles doesn't make someone a good defender. There is a lot more to it than that and this season alone has highlighted that Earl's can struggle with the bigger ball carriers and (evident during the RWC) his positioning at times. There have been a few games where his missed tackle statistics are much weaker than other options at 13 for Ireland. It isn't "guff". See the statistics for yourself.

Anyway, I actually can see both sides of the argument regarding his best position. He can tear holes in the opposition defence better than most in Ireland so you would like to see him get his hands on the ball as often as possible. However I would still worry about his defence against the "bigger" teams and his decision making when playing at centre. I think his best games in the past have been at fullback but I think that ship has sailed.

EDIT: Also, Schmidt was at the game yesterday and had a huge grin on his face after his wonderful try. He will be pushing for a starting place no doubt.

I did a comparative study of Earls v. other 13s (like BOD, Conrad Smith, Rougerie, Jon Davies etc) a few years back when he played the entire 6Ns at 13. From what I recall, Earls best tackles made/missed ratio (and in fact he made a lot more tackles than the rest of the 13s).

What is often forgotten is that BOD (who was regarded as one of the best defensive 13s around, missed loads of tackles - sometimes more than he actually made and no one thought it was an issue.

The season that Earls was 6Ns No. 13, defense guru Les Kiss was the backs coach.

i'd love to see that study!!!

by **rodders** Mon 18 Jan 2016, 4:55 pm

Very few of Earls tackles are what those in the industry would call 'dominant tackles'.

by Marshes Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:08 pm

rodders wrote:Very few of Earls tackles are what those in the industry would call 'dominant tackles'.

I agree Rodders, although saying that he made two fantastic driving tackles in the space of a few minutes against Stade resulting in turnover ball. I'm not will to go any further down the "Can Keith Earls tackle?" rabbithole though!!

When do we find out the squad? Look at the English over in their EPS thread having a ball while we sit around twiddling our thumbs!

by **profitius** Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:08 pm

I don't think we'll see Earls in the center again for Ireland. There's too much talent there now and Earls is also much better on the wing or even fullback.

by eirebilly Mon 18 Jan 2016, 5:18 pm

I agree prof, Earls just looks more comfortable and dangerous on the wing to me and as you say, there is some amazing talent coming through at 13.

As I said earlier, I have no issues with Earls defensive work except for the fact that he gets into some awful body positions which have led to injuries.

by Sin é Mon 18 Jan 2016, 8:28 pm

rodders wrote:Very few of Earls tackles are what those in the industry would call 'dominant tackles'.

You mean like these two?

https://youtu.be/Yl4yfLQZVuM?t=1h22m

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 19 Jan 2016, 7:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Putting in a few big tackles doesn't make someone a good defender. There is a lot more to it than that and this season alone has highlighted that Earl's can struggle with the bigger ball carriers and (evident during the RWC) his positioning at times. There have been a few games where his missed tackle statistics are much weaker than other options at 13 for Ireland. It isn't "guff". See the statistics for yourself.

Anyway, I actually can see both sides of the argument regarding his best position. He can tear holes in the opposition defence better than most in Ireland so you would like to see him get his hands on the ball as often as possible. However I would still worry about his defence against the "bigger" teams and his decision making when playing at centre. I think his best games in the past have been at fullback but I think that ship has sailed.

EDIT: Also, Schmidt was at the game yesterday and had a huge grin on his face after his wonderful try. He will be pushing for a starting place no doubt.

I did a comparative study of Earls v. other 13s (like BOD, Conrad Smith, Rougerie, Jon Davies etc) a few years back when he played the entire 6Ns at 13. From what I recall, Earls best tackles made/missed ratio (and in fact he made a lot more tackles than the rest of the 13s).

What is often forgotten is that BOD (who was regarded as one of the best defensive 13s around, missed loads of tackles - sometimes more than he actually made and no one thought it was an issue.

The season that Earls was 6Ns No. 13, defense guru Les Kiss was the backs coach.

2011? I'm referring to his performance since his return from injury which is far more relevant.

by Golden Tue 19 Jan 2016, 8:17 pm

Tyler bleyandaal is out for another 12 weeks. Has this guy even played a full game for Munster?

by Sin é Tue 19 Jan 2016, 11:38 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Putting in a few big tackles doesn't make someone a good defender. There is a lot more to it than that and this season alone has highlighted that Earl's can struggle with the bigger ball carriers and (evident during the RWC) his positioning at times. There have been a few games where his missed tackle statistics are much weaker than other options at 13 for Ireland. It isn't "guff". See the statistics for yourself.

Anyway, I actually can see both sides of the argument regarding his best position. He can tear holes in the opposition defence better than most in Ireland so you would like to see him get his hands on the ball as often as possible. However I would still worry about his defence against the "bigger" teams and his decision making when playing at centre. I think his best games in the past have been at fullback but I think that ship has sailed.

EDIT: Also, Schmidt was at the game yesterday and had a huge grin on his face after his wonderful try. He will be pushing for a starting place no doubt.

I did a comparative study of Earls v. other 13s (like BOD, Conrad Smith, Rougerie, Jon Davies etc) a few years back when he played the entire 6Ns at 13. From what I recall, Earls best tackles made/missed ratio (and in fact he made a lot more tackles than the rest of the 13s).

What is often forgotten is that BOD (who was regarded as one of the best defensive 13s around, missed loads of tackles - sometimes more than he actually made and no one thought it was an issue.

The season that Earls was 6Ns No. 13, defense guru Les Kiss was the backs coach.

2011? I'm referring to his performance since his return from injury which is far more relevant.

Did you look at the link above? That was two tackles last Saturday.

https://youtu.be/Yl4yfLQZVuM?t=1h22m

by eirebilly Wed 20 Jan 2016, 6:32 am

Sin é,

Don't forget the RWC (less than 6months ago as well) where Earls made some excellent covering tackles when others had missed theirs.

I not going to go into this anymore as Earls is someone that will always divide opinion. Some will only ever focus on what he has done badly and remain fixated on that and never see the positives.

Personally, I feel that he is a very good defender who, on occasions, really makes me cringe when he gets into awful talking positions leading to injuries but never lets the side down more so than any other player. All players are guilty of missing tackles.

by **Notch** Wed 20 Jan 2016, 8:46 am

No doubt I want Earls to start on the wing for Ireland. Don't feel he is any worse a defender than our other options.

by **rodders** Wed 20 Jan 2016, 9:15 am

eirebilly wrote:
I not going to go into this anymore as Earls is someone that will always divide opinion. .

Too true Billser, I heard his mammy thinks he can defend and his daddy thinks he can't Wink

.

by eirebilly Wed 20 Jan 2016, 10:15 am

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
I not going to go into this anymore as Earls is someone that will always divide opinion. .

Too true Billser, I heard his mammy thinks he can defend and his daddy thinks he can't .

Well GER is a hard man to please...

by carpet baboon Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:23 pm

O'Shea leaving quins. Think munster could be an option?

by marty2086 Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:28 pm

carpet baboon wrote:O'Shea leaving quins. Think munster could be an option?

Plenty seem to think so but would his style suit Munster? He has aimed for a more expansive game plan at Quins

by carpet baboon Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:29 pm

Could he see it as a failing giant and its his ticket to the Iceland job?

by marty2086 Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:33 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Could he see it as a failing giant and its his ticket to the Iceland job?

He looking for a job on the checkout there? Or are they an emerging rugby nation? Whistle

The Italy job would have been a good opportunity for him to prove himself at Test level

by carpet baboon Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:56 pm

Havnt you herd Iceland will be the new NZ Very Happy

by **Notch** Wed 20 Jan 2016, 10:31 pm

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/limerick-fc/201482/Rugby-set-for-Markets-Field-return.html

What do people make of this decision? Good call?

I'm guessing they'll only use it for games where Thomond Park is very, very hard to fill, like the less glamorous Pro12 games or fixtures at odd times or on international weekends. But isn't that what Musgrave Park is for?

Are Munster now committing to playing at three different grounds? One of the best things about Ulsters set-up from a commercial PoV is they have been able to invest in a lot of retail around the ground. They have food trucks, bars and the merchandise shop which all provide additional income, and they have targets for how much they want supporters to spend in the ground, on average.

Building up that infrastructure around match day is a lot, lot harder if you're split between multiple bases.

by eirebilly Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:O'Shea leaving quins. Think munster could be an option?

Plenty seem to think so but would his style suit Munster? He has aimed for a more expansive game plan at Quins

Would not be bad for Munster. Munster are not the overly forward orientated team that they once were, the can be quite expansive and have the players to do that so O'Shea might not be a bad call.

by **rodders** Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:54 am

I think it would be fantastic by Munster - how likely is it?

Munster are a sleeping giant but in a bit of a mess - would O'Shea really leave quins to take that on?

He's not a big fan of the IRFU either and could earn a lot more elsewhere at some of the big spenders.

by **Notch** Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:13 am

Rumour is O'Shea to Italy? He was linked with them months ago and I thought at the time it's a bit of a poisoned chalice.

by marty2086 Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:33 am

Notch wrote:Rumour is O'Shea to Italy? He was linked with them months ago and I thought at the time it's a bit of a poisoned chalice.

When asked about Italy back in April he said "The answer is no, my job is here and I love it here".

Maybe money talked

by **Notch** Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:36 am

Well, obviously the second part of that has changed. Maybe the first part has too.

by marty2086 Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

It would seem it may have as hes no longer saying No publically to it 'Whether it's Italy or not will be for them to consider, not for me'

by rapidsnowman Thu 21 Jan 2016, 11:52 am

Notch wrote:Rumour is O'Shea to Italy? He was linked with them months ago and I thought at the time it's a bit of a poisoned chalice.

+1

I get the feeling Italy may be heading into decline rather than on the verge of an upsurge. It seems a job where you are on a hiding to nothing.

Better climate though Cool

by eirebilly Fri 22 Jan 2016, 6:20 am

I can't imagine O'Shea taking on the Italian job myself, that said, it is a good job to get international experience and any coach that can get Italy moving in the right direction has to be worth their weight in gold. Not such a big career risk in my opinion.

by Sin é Fri 22 Jan 2016, 12:23 pm

Andrew Conway & John Ryan sign contract extensions. No sign of any players deserting the sinking ship yet. Important players left to sign new contracts are Murray, Earls & Zebo.

There has been some criticism of Munster 'missing out' on Ultan Dillane - seems that Munster did offer him a place in the academy, but Connacht gave him a development Contract straight out. It as worked out well for all concerned.

by eirebilly Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:24 am

Conway and Ryan signing extensions is a good thing for Munster. Murray and Earls will sign extensions of that I am certain. Zebo seems to have fallen back in love with Munster so I would expect him to resign again, especially after being selected for the Irish squad.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:47 am

eirebilly wrote:I can't imagine O'Shea taking on the Italian job myself, that said, it is a good job to get international experience and any coach that can get Italy moving in the right direction has to be worth their weight in gold. Not such a big career risk in my opinion.

Depends what his end game is. If it's money he'd be in France or Japan. If he wants the Ireland job then taking on a province is the best way to get that. If he wants the England job all he had to do was throw his hat in the ring which he carefully didn't.

Agreed the Italy job is a tough one unless he takes control over all Italian rugby and gets hands on with player development and selection in the pro teams.

by **profitius** Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:47 pm

Another defeat at the weekend. Lucky to get a point against Ospreys who were missing many more players.

by eirebilly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:22 am

Not looking good at all for Munster to finish in the top 6 now. Fuming at the lack of discipline and the inability to adjust to the ref yesterday. After the first yellow card, Munster simply imploded.

All credit to Connacht who played very well (hopefully Schmidt tuned in) but Munster really have some issues, the biggest of which is on field composure which is something they have always been good at.

by SecretFly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 1:21 pm

Unfortunately, the truth needs to be spoken. Foley came in as a Natural Munster Warrior who knew where his men were from, knew their instincts, knew the traditions of olde Munster, had his passport to prove he was once a Munster player himself.

He fitted the bill, he was the Inside man that most Munster people mumbled was the only true route to success. He was going to cut out the fancy dressing and get back to the meat.

But he simply isn't good enough. No harm done. Time tells its own story. Not every coach has all the tools to make it all the way as a successful coach. Foley is perhaps better suited to an assistant role... and was pushed into the Munster role when too many people started to dream of the olde myths that Munster are steeped in. The truth is of course that at their best, Munster always had a SH coach lurking around somewhere.

by eirebilly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 1:25 pm

I really like Foley but have to agree Fly, he may be a better assistant coach right now. Doesn't mean he wont ever be a good head coach but right now he does seem out of his depth.

by Guest Sun 17 Apr 2016, 2:12 pm

When you hear someone like O'Gara saying that he is nowhere near ready to be Munsters head coach, it puts Foleys selection into perspective.

I feel bad for Foley. He could probably make a great coach some time in the future, but obviously wasn't ready to be thrown into such a big job so soon. The fact that he was is the fault of the selectors.

I still think Muster will make the top 6 (Ulsters making top 6 isn't certain yet), and hopefully the new DoR can help turn things around.

by **Notch** Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:01 pm

Foley can still be a good coach. Mark McCall went through the exact same situation with Ulster, got sacked, went to Saracens as an Assistant Coach and now he's very successful.

by Artful_Dodger Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:29 pm

Notch wrote:Foley can still be a good coach. Mark McCall went through the exact same situation with Ulster, got sacked, went to Saracens as an Assistant Coach and now he's very successful.

I dunno, I think McCall was always a good coach at Ulster, he won the league with us and from what I have been made to understand was absolutely sabotaged by certain individuals and was left with no choice but to leave. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I heard. He's now won plenty more with Saracens and has a very good chance of adding the Champions Cup to that. Not sure its comparable to Foley being out of his depth, I don't think McCall was ever out of his depth, he won the league with a very limited Ulster team and had success with Saracens almost straight away as well. Foley on the other hand has been lost form day one.

by eirebilly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 3:36 pm

I would not say that Foley has been lost from day one there Artful. Munster have played some very good rugby under him at times. I just feel that he lacks the experience to take Munster to a level where they are more consistent.

I know that Lancaster has copped a lot of flack for England's disappointing world cup but I would be very happy if he came to Munster.

by brennomac Sun 17 Apr 2016, 4:55 pm

At least Cardiff didn't get a bp today, would have been a three way tie on 53pts if they had, now Munster and Edinburgh have 1 pt in hand. Looks more like a shoot out between Munster and Edinburgh for final Euro slot. Somehow I fear for that Munster front row against an all international Edinburgh front row

by **profitius** Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:17 pm

eirebilly wrote:I would not say that Foley has been lost from day one there Artful. Munster have played some very good rugby under him at times. I just feel that he lacks the experience to take Munster to a level where they are more consistent.

I know that Lancaster has copped a lot of flack for England's disappointing world cup but I would be very happy if he came to Munster.

I can't agree with that, Billy. Munster have been playing turgid rugby since he took over.

Both the style and execution have been very poor. I've been consistent in my opinion since he has been in charge and tbh it always looked like a disaster waiting to happen.

by eirebilly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:21 pm

Prof, I honestly believe that at times, Munster have looked very good under Foley. Yesterday, Munster were outplaying Connacht but their on field leadership let them down in not tightening up the discipline or adjusting to the ref. That's where they lost the game yesterday for me.

by Sin é Sun 17 Apr 2016, 11:48 pm

profitius wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I would not say that Foley has been lost from day one there Artful. Munster have played some very good rugby under him at times. I just feel that he lacks the experience to take Munster to a level where they are more consistent.

I know that Lancaster has copped a lot of flack for England's disappointing world cup but I would be very happy if he came to Munster.

I can't agree with that, Billy. Munster have been playing turgid rugby since he took over.

Both the style and execution have been very poor. I've been consistent in my opinion since he has been in charge and tbh it always looked like a disaster waiting to happen.

No one has been able to replicate the success that Kidney did. McGahan was Munster's back coach for its 2 wins, yet as soon as he was made head coach, everyone started saying that Munster's back play was very poor. No allowances have been made for the lost of about 12-15 international players (with at least 5 of them world class - Flannery, POC, Wally, ROG & Howlett).

You seem to conveniently forget that Munster were joint top of the PRO12 on points last season and played in the final. Yet Ulster, who have won nothing since they won the league with Mark McCall seem to get a free pass on their lack of achievement and that poor and all as Munster are this season, they actually did the double on them (as they did v. Leinster last season).

by Sin é Sun 17 Apr 2016, 11:50 pm

eirebilly wrote:Prof, I honestly believe that at times, Munster have looked very good under Foley. Yesterday, Munster were outplaying Connacht but their on field leadership let them down in not tightening up the discipline or adjusting to the ref. That's where they lost the game yesterday for me.

I CJ looks tired now. He has been on his own all year. IRFU should have backed Munster to bring in Stephen Moore to provide leadership. Munster have been very unfortunate losing BJ Botha as well and Chisolm as well.

by **rodders** Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:47 am

Notch wrote:Foley can still be a good coach. Mark McCall went through the exact same situation with Ulster, got sacked, went to Saracens as an Assistant Coach and now he's very successful.

Well no he didn't really, McCall won the league so was already a very good coach, just found a bit green, and maybe not given the support he should have, when things started to unravel on and off the field.

Foley hasn't achieved anything and can't see too many clubs looking for his services. He's not solely responsible because Munster seem a mess off the field too but the standard of play and commitment is shocking. On paper they have a decent enough squad.

Sailli looks to have thrown the towel in after carrying the back line for most of the season, in fact a few of the local players, like Murray and Zebo looked like they wanted Connacht to win more than Munster.

by des Mon 18 Apr 2016, 10:42 am

brennomac wrote:At least Cardiff didn't get a bp today, would have been a three way tie on 53pts if they had, now Munster and Edinburgh have 1 pt in hand. Looks more like a shoot out between Munster and Edinburgh for final Euro slot.

I thought it would be but Blues are looking good for it, especially given we've (Edinburgh) got them in the last game. I'm not a fan of the new Champ Cup but I like what it's done for the later league games.

Somehow I fear for that Munster front row against an all international Edinburgh front row

I don't think you should fear our first choice front row. Two thirds are completely broken.

If our 2nd choice front row (plus Nell) starts then I'd be much more worried if I were you. Sutherland and McInally are both much better on current form. Maybe not quite the same come scrum time but not far off it.

It seems like Munster have rebounded quite well from bad performances this season. What's your thinking for the game against Edinburgh?

by eirebilly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 10:54 am

rodders wrote:
Sailli looks to have thrown the towel in after carrying the back line for most of the season, in fact a few of the local players, like Murray and Zebo looked like they wanted Connacht to win more than Munster.

Are you taking the urine or do you actually believe this? Murray and Zebo both looked hungry on Saturday. As I said earlier, I believe it was on field leadership that cost Munster dearly late in the first half as up until then, they looked the better side. Once Connacht got their heads up they played extremely well and were easily the better side but if Munster had of adapted and improved their discipline... Who knows...

by **rodders** Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:16 pm

eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
Sailli looks to have thrown the towel in after carrying the back line for most of the season, in fact a few of the local players, like Murray and Zebo looked like they wanted Connacht to win more than Munster.

Are you taking the urine or do you actually believe this? Murray and Zebo both looked hungry on Saturday.

If you mean they couldn't wait for the game to finish to head down to MacDonalds for a big mac and fries then I agree they both looked hungry...

by Golden Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:55 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
Sailli looks to have thrown the towel in after carrying the back line for most of the season, in fact a few of the local players, like Murray and Zebo looked like they wanted Connacht to win more than Munster.

Are you taking the urine or do you actually believe this? Murray and Zebo both looked hungry on Saturday.

If you mean they couldn't wait for the game to finish to head down to MacDonalds for a big mac and fries then I agree they both looked hungry...

Dont be ridiculous Rodders, they are all about the Supermacs...

by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:03 pm

Saracens ain't a nice comparison as it's virtually 'allegedly' certain that McCall had pretty much a blank chequebook from day one.

Yes, coaching has to be good to do the biz...but money helps in buying the auto-play players that don't need much of it.

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