South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
First topic message reminder :
The pivotal 3rd Test starts in two days time. England are expected to be unchanged. Dale Steyn is out injured for SA and looks doubtful for the rest of the series, though Kyle Abbott is fit and will come into the frame for selection. Another possible change is someone else to open in the place of Van Zyl
The pivotal 3rd Test starts in two days time. England are expected to be unchanged. Dale Steyn is out injured for SA and looks doubtful for the rest of the series, though Kyle Abbott is fit and will come into the frame for selection. Another possible change is someone else to open in the place of Van Zyl
VTR- Posts : 5074
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
alfie wrote:kingraf wrote:This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away
It is what it is though , raf. They are all attacking bowlers...they will never contain a Stokes ; but they are always a chance to take a wicket. If you want the four of them and no spinner that's the risk you take. Actually working OK for them so far despite that rapid counterattack.
True but a guy like Steyn or Philander would be really good at reining in a batsman on the charge. aren't here and cant do much about it, but I feel we need one of them to REALLY get the value of the tactic. Anyway as you've said, its not going too badly actually. One more wicket and we're into the bowlers who bat
kingraf- raf
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Joe Root might be the best bat I've seen play for England already
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
My fault for jinxing England...I'll get me coat...
What was I thinking?
What was I thinking?
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Excellent hundred for Joe Root
One of his better ones ,I think ...considering the situation and bouncey track.
Needs to go on still for the team's sake.
One of his better ones ,I think ...considering the situation and bouncey track.
Needs to go on still for the team's sake.
alfie- Posts : 22138
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Congrats Rooty on a brilliant and much-needed hundred!
Helped steer England out of a very dicey situation.
Blimey its dark now...almost looks like nightfall. Surely the umps will call it a day due to the light...or the wet stuff will start falling...
Helped steer England out of a very dicey situation.
Blimey its dark now...almost looks like nightfall. Surely the umps will call it a day due to the light...or the wet stuff will start falling...
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
That shot to bring up his century by Root was pretty much sex on a cricket pitch
My word
My word
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Quality by Root, was about time he converted one of those many starts into a century, got every shot in the book.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Root. The first England no 4 to score a test century in SA since Ken Barrington (according to cricinfo)
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Six 50s between this ton and his last.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Olly wrote:That shot to bring up his century by Root was pretty much sex on a cricket pitch
My word
An even better reason to put the covers on than rain!
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Excellent near post header for 4 by Root.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
kingraf wrote:alfie wrote:kingraf wrote:This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away
It is what it is though , raf. They are all attacking bowlers...they will never contain a Stokes ; but they are always a chance to take a wicket. If you want the four of them and no spinner that's the risk you take. Actually working OK for them so far despite that rapid counterattack.
True but a guy like Steyn or Philander would be really good at reining in a batsman on the charge. aren't here and cant do much about it, but I feel we need one of them to REALLY get the value of the tactic. Anyway as you've said, its not going too badly actually. One more wicket and we're into the bowlers who bat
Well of course Steyn would make a huge difference ...but Steyns don't grow on trees. If he gets back they have better balance. I rather suspect SA may have to learn to do without him sooner than they'd like though...
I like this Rabada. . Looks very handy. Viljoen I think might be a bit too much of a loose cannon : suspect he has done well not to have played in Cape Town England might have made 800.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Fantastic for Joe to finally convert another 50 to a century - has had a bad habit recently of getting out in the 70s or 80s.
Still work to do for England though, given the poor performance of the top order. We realistically need to get somewhere above 370 to be ahead of the game.
And bad light stops play. Presumably that will be it for the day, especially if the rain comes.
Still work to do for England though, given the poor performance of the top order. We realistically need to get somewhere above 370 to be ahead of the game.
And bad light stops play. Presumably that will be it for the day, especially if the rain comes.
dummy_half- Posts : 6498
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Weather/light calls a halt...
Good timing. I need some sleep. Goodnight all - looking forward to mor good cricket tomorrow.
Good timing. I need some sleep. Goodnight all - looking forward to mor good cricket tomorrow.
alfie- Posts : 22138
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Doesnt look too dark outside but I don't think conditions will improve. So if that's the minimum light needed I think we're done for the day. 60-40 England
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
South Africa's morning, Englands day.
We have some special talents in the middle order, seems like the atmosphere is right for them to express themselves.
Could be a long day tomorrow if SA cant make early inroads.
We have some special talents in the middle order, seems like the atmosphere is right for them to express themselves.
Could be a long day tomorrow if SA cant make early inroads.
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
alfie wrote:
Well of course Steyn would make a huge difference ...but Steyns don't grow on trees. If he gets back they have better balance. I rather suspect SA may have to learn to do without him sooner than they'd like though...
England might have made 800.
Fortunately, for England, Roots do grow under trees.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Good recovery from England. I wouldn't put them ahead just yet, really need a 50 or so lead to counteract the disadvantage of having to bat last - that is still quite a way off.
Another wicket early tomorrow and SA will fancy taking a lead of their own with an out of form Moeen and the hit and miss Broad to come in next
Another wicket early tomorrow and SA will fancy taking a lead of their own with an out of form Moeen and the hit and miss Broad to come in next
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
VTR wrote:Good recovery from England. I wouldn't put them ahead just yet, really need a 50 or so lead to counteract the disadvantage of having to bat last - that is still quite a way off.
It was discussed on TMS that Wanderers sometimes has the potential to go flat as the test progresses.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
England turned what looked like being a bad day into a fairly decent one thanks to that stand by Stokes and Root. England just ahead but South Africa still well in this. If they can bowl England out for less than their total tomorrow then I'd make them favourites to win the test.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
I feel a Jimmy Anderson 30* happening tomorrow
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Not sure I'd even put England ahead at the moment - 75 behind and 5 wickets left, and as VTR says, a lead of at least 50 would be needed to compensate for batting 4th. Still lots of work to do, but we are at least in a position to try and push on thanks to Root and Stokes rescuing the bad position we'd got into.
Well balanced match situation - a bad morning tomorrow and we'll be chasing the game. A good one (say Root and Bairstow batting to lunch) and we'll be very strong.
Well balanced match situation - a bad morning tomorrow and we'll be chasing the game. A good one (say Root and Bairstow batting to lunch) and we'll be very strong.
dummy_half- Posts : 6498
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
dummy_half wrote:Not sure I'd even put England ahead at the moment - 75 behind and 5 wickets left, and as VTR says, a lead of at least 50 would be needed to compensate for batting 4th. Still lots of work to do, but we are at least in a position to try and push on thanks to Root and Stokes rescuing the bad position we'd got into.
Well balanced match situation - a bad morning tomorrow and we'll be chasing the game. A good one (say Root and Bairstow batting to lunch) and we'll be very strong.
It is on a knife edge without a doubt. As England bat deep then I'd say it would need to be a big collapse from here for them not to pass South Africa's total. A lead of 50 or more for England after the first innings then they will be well-placed.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Saffers have no spinner, so think this batting last lark is being slightly overblown
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Can't in all my top on this earth with season tickets to the Wanderers remember a spinner winning a Test match in the fourth innings. 90mph on an up and down pitch isn't easy. Don't know if that's what the pitch will do though
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Olly wrote:Saffers have no spinner, so think this batting last lark is being slightly overblown
Hi Olly - you just beat me to making the same point.
Obviously no guarantees but from here England should be looking to at least level South Africa's total and then go on to make some sort of lead. Still very difficult to assess though, as others have pointed out.
As Dummy flagged early today, a major disappointment for England was allowing South Africa's 8th and 10th wickets put on a combined total of nearly 90 runs. Realistically, you often have to accept the frustration of one annoying late wicket partnership but two makes me grumpy!
guildfordbat- Posts : 16922
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
After South Africa owned the first session, England evened the game through that fabulous partnership between Root and Stokes. Root is one of the finest batsmen going around at present, and Stokes is building his reputation by the day.
England perhaps just a head at the moment as they have Ali and Broad to come in besides these 2. Bairstow has been in fine form with the bat throughout the series and Root has a hundred to his name. The new ball is far away too. So South Africa would need more than a moment of inspiration to come back into the game.
Rabada continues to impress and Morkel produced some brutes in between. Viljoen I have been looking forward to seeing in action, he is fast but not a great first day in test cricket after that first ball wicket that in itself wasn't of the best ball he would ever bowl in his life. South Africa perhaps missing the spin option, the attack is a bit too similar....... Perhaps AB made a colossal mistake by not calling up on the vicious military medium of Styan v!! That's what he's in the side for and it was unforgivable on AB's part.......
England perhaps just a head at the moment as they have Ali and Broad to come in besides these 2. Bairstow has been in fine form with the bat throughout the series and Root has a hundred to his name. The new ball is far away too. So South Africa would need more than a moment of inspiration to come back into the game.
Rabada continues to impress and Morkel produced some brutes in between. Viljoen I have been looking forward to seeing in action, he is fast but not a great first day in test cricket after that first ball wicket that in itself wasn't of the best ball he would ever bowl in his life. South Africa perhaps missing the spin option, the attack is a bit too similar....... Perhaps AB made a colossal mistake by not calling up on the vicious military medium of Styan v!! That's what he's in the side for and it was unforgivable on AB's part.......
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
kingraf wrote:Can't in all my top on this earth with season tickets to the Wanderers remember a spinner winning a Test match in the fourth innings. 90mph on an up and down pitch isn't easy. Don't know if that's what the pitch will do though
Moeen has never had the chance
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
alfie wrote:guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - I suppose an important consideration is whether running on the pitch is just unlucky, stupidly reckless or a mix of gamesmanship and cheating.
Nearly always very hard to tell and I'm sure some of us will have different views depending on what team the bowler is playing for!
As you suggest, sensible umpiring with an early quiet word should be able to stop most issues arising.
I honestly don't think it is gamesmanship. To actively mess with your delivery and follow through for the sake of wearing the pitch ? When your team is batting last ? Don't think so...
It is an involuntary action , a consequence of your whole run up to follow through sequence ; and some bowlers are more prone to trespass than others. Like no balling , or clipping the stumps ...can be eradicated by practice ; but not always with ease. So occasional slips are going to happen ; and that is where the particular umpire and his attitude will be significant.
I am pretty sure Jimmy had trouble with this very issue in 2003 against SA , in his first year as a Test bowler. Hasn't often been bothered by it to this degree in recent years... So is it one particular umpire with a bee in his bonnet , or is Jimmy redeveloping an old glitch in his action ? Perhaps a consequence of recovery from injury ? I am sure the backroom staff will be on to it...but might be hard to fix in the middle of a match. Hope it doesn't mess him up too much in second innings.
Hi Alfie - I liked this comment tonight from Bob Willis:
''Interesting that the umpire can see the bowlers running into that danger area but don't look for front foot no balls.''
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
For all his abilities as a bowler, James Anderson is a serious thug on field and he often gets a far too lenient treatment for his rowdy behavior. It is time for the England management to tell their senior seamer to behave himself.......
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/962589.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/962589.html
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Today, I have a feeling, will be pivotal in how this test will end. Whoever, has the better of it will be in pole position to win it so here is my road map for the day.
South Africa will aim to have a lead after the first innings. By lunch they would want to have bowled England out for no more than 300 by lunch. They'd hope to avoid any great losses of wickets to reach tea on 75 for 1 and they would feel very confident of a win if they could close at around 200 for 3.
England will have their own agenda. They would look to reach lunch on around 320 for 7 (or better) and bat through the afternoon session to reach tea perhaps being bowled out for around 400. They would then look to make inroads into the South African batting line-up reducing them to around 75 for 3 at close still holding a narrow lead whilst into the middle order of the South African batting line-up.
South Africa will aim to have a lead after the first innings. By lunch they would want to have bowled England out for no more than 300 by lunch. They'd hope to avoid any great losses of wickets to reach tea on 75 for 1 and they would feel very confident of a win if they could close at around 200 for 3.
England will have their own agenda. They would look to reach lunch on around 320 for 7 (or better) and bat through the afternoon session to reach tea perhaps being bowled out for around 400. They would then look to make inroads into the South African batting line-up reducing them to around 75 for 3 at close still holding a narrow lead whilst into the middle order of the South African batting line-up.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Root falling early on the 3rd day is a big boost to South Africa Bairstow and Ali now looking to settle and build a partnership. Ali could do with a big score here as he hasn't contributed a lot with the bat of late. England 252 for 6 trailing by 61 runs.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Ali and Bairstow building a little partnership here and reducing the deficit. England on 268 for 6 and trail by 45 runs.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Fabulous catch by Vilas to dismiss Ali just as he looked like he had settled. England 279 for 7 are trailing by 34 runs.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
This test is fascinatingly poised. It has followed a similar pattern throughout where just when it looks like one team is getting on top the other bites back. At present it is too close to call with England on 286 for 7 trailing South Africa by 27.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
I do find some of the commentators views odd. The South African contingent saying if England only have a lead of about 20 then that is not bad. Very odd. South Africa won the toss and elected to bat and when you do that your aim is to bat big and get a first innings lead is it not? England 299 for 7 and Broad looking surprisingly at ease.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Rabada bowls Broad with a cracking set-up and delivery. England now 309 for 8 and they trail by 4 runs.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Finn feathers one and given out on review. England now 311 for 9 and still trail by 2 runs.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
The reason for that Craig is due to the detriment of batting last. If they end up basically level after first innings (which looks very likely) then South Africa have a fairly clear advantage (albeit their lack of a spinner may lessen the benefit).
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
England get a crucial first innings lead as Bairstow top edges for 4. England 315 for 9 and lead by 2.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Born Slippy wrote:The reason for that Craig is due to the detriment of batting last. If they end up basically level after first innings (which looks very likely) then South Africa have a fairly clear advantage (albeit their lack of a spinner may lessen the benefit).
Yes but South Africa still need to bat themselves into a position of strength which evidently they couldn't do after one round of innings so any advantage a team takes into the second innings I'd say gives them the psychological and mathematical edge. Plus pressure comes into this as in South Africa are 1-0 down with a fairly inexperienced team.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
England bowled out for 323 and take a lead of 10 into the second innings. Bairstow the last man to fall for 45 - another solid knock to hold the innings together. Rabada takes a five for and he looks the most likely of the new crop of Saffers bowlers to settle into test cricket.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
With lunch half an hour away then England will be desperate to bag a wicket or two with the new ball before lunch.
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
South Africa avoid any loss of early wickets and reach lunch on 16 for 0 and lead by 6 runs. They'll be happy about that little session.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Broad/Anderson have to pull their finger out and start bowling better
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Olly wrote:Broad/Anderson have to pull their finger out and start bowling better
I am surprised that Finn hasn't been flung the new ball considering that he has been England's best bowler on this tour. As things stand I'd say the threshold is 250. If South African can post a total in excess of that I cannot see England retrieving the situation.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
SA morning then ? England would have wanted a lead of fifty plus...
Game stays wide open though. Don't think this is going to turn into a minefield so if England can bowl SA out again for around 300 they might fancy the target.
(Not seen a ball today ; but I imagine Root going early was the key moment )
Game stays wide open though. Don't think this is going to turn into a minefield so if England can bowl SA out again for around 300 they might fancy the target.
(Not seen a ball today ; but I imagine Root going early was the key moment )
alfie- Posts : 22138
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Well that's one...Elgar a good early wicket to get.
What wouldn't they give to get Amla early ?
What wouldn't they give to get Amla early ?
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Re: South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan
Well Root going so early and still 70 behind then England would have settled for a lead of 10 and xertainly would have when they were 90 for 4.
Broad strikes and dismisses Elgar. South Africa 23 for 1. I cant see England would want to chase too much more than 225 as historically Jo'burg is not noted for fourth innings big run chases.
Broad strikes and dismisses Elgar. South Africa 23 for 1. I cant see England would want to chase too much more than 225 as historically Jo'burg is not noted for fourth innings big run chases.
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