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Wales 6 Nations Squad

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Post by munkian Tue 19 Jan 2016, 12:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Forwards:
Rob Evans (Scarlets), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Cardiff Blues), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues).
Backs:
Aled Davies (Scarlets) *, Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Bath Rugby), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Tom James (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby), Liam Williams (Scarlets).
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Post by MonkeyOwain12 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:20 am

I'm certainly not 'failing to see' anything here. Perhaps you're failing to see what I'm saying.

Whilst I certainly don't see us as the perfect team, we have had relative success. I do agree that something needs to change in order to take the next step.

A little added input or a change of perspective from the coaching team could go a long way.It doesn't necessarily have to mean wholesale changes to the staff.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:28 am

Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:41 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?


Nothing is broken really. 

But what is wrong with us is that we do not go into every game with the right attitude. If we took our 6N attitude into every game then the big 3 would not have the monkey on us, I do not know what the answer is either, perhaps we need a top sports psychologist or something, somebody who can convince the players that they are the best, and they are better than who they are going to be coming up against. 

Our players need that sheer bloody mindedness, that when they take the field second is nothing. We are capable of it, I have seen us do it against all the 6N sides. OK

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:46 am

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:I'm certainly not 'failing to see' anything here. Perhaps you're failing to see what I'm saying.

Whilst I certainly don't see us as the perfect team, we have had relative success. I do agree that something needs to change in order to take the next step.

A little added input or a change of perspective from the coaching team could go a long way.It doesn't necessarily have to mean wholesale changes to the staff.

So what are you saying then? You seem to think Howley and McBryde are somewhat significant to our success - you're one of only two people I've heard say that. There's a failing set piece and a lack of backline play. I would usually agree with a change of perspective but I don't think it will happen because said coaches are very limited. We can't really blame the players either because we see each week that they're far from limited.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:46 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:54 am

And our attack is blunt and predictable.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:59 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:00 am

mikey_dragon wrote:We can't really blame the players either because we see each week that they're far from limited.

Well they are not performing for the regions either, but I will agree that the coaching at the regions leaves a lot to be desired.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:03 am

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

I thought Charteris was playing pretty well

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Post by MonkeyOwain12 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:05 am

I think that we have an over reliance on waiting for some individual brilliance for tries. Which, we are more than capable of, particularly in the 6 nations.

However, here in Oz and in NZ, in my experience their brilliance comes from structured attacks.

They know full well how to manipulate a defence. A lot of their 'off the cuff' play is very well organised. That's where I feel we're lacking on a more complex scale.

Simply though, the ball handling here is far better and far more 1 to 15.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:09 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
MonkeyOwain12 wrote:I think that everyone regards Gatland as a good coach.
So, surely we should be able to understand that he holds Howley, McBride et al in high regard. I'd rather trust his instincts rather than my own opinion at the moment.

Let' not forget, the record shows that Howley is a 6 Nations winning Head Coach.

Even Henry, Hansen and Smith were lambasted. They evolved, and started new trends, rather than follow trends. It must be said though, I think they probably had a little more natural talent to choose from!

Howley's Autumn record also shows he is a wooden spoon coach (4 losses from 4). The set piece ha fallen apart since 2014 and the back play have done like 2 different moves throughout Howley's tenure. These coaches were a jobs for the boys appointment.

The scrum has been a weakness since Adam Jones was a force to be reckoned with. But those same players have the same problems at regional level. I'm sure you are right that a world class scrum coach could perform a miracle, Ledesma did so for the Bazzers but Ledesma is under contract.

So what do we do?

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Post by fa0019 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:09 am

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:I think that we have an over reliance on waiting for some individual brilliance for tries. Which, we are more than capable of, particularly in the 6 nations.

However, here in Oz and in NZ, in my experience their brilliance comes from structured attacks.

They know full well how to manipulate a defence. A lot of their 'off the cuff' play is very well organised. That's where I feel we're lacking on a more complex scale.

Simply though, the ball handling here is far better and far more 1 to 15.

Gatland has a lot of pluses.... but perhaps his own major critique is that he is predictable. He believes in huge structures. Phase 1 crash ball, phase 2-3 again big heavy forward getting over the gain line. Phase 3 look to spread it wide or kick.

Players do tend to be a little static or at least trained to not read gaps/opportunities. However the methodology has brought a lot of success but just perhaps it stops them from going that step further.
In the end however 3 GS, 1 lions tour, 1 SF, 1 QF out of pool of death in 2015... couldn't really ask for more.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:22 am

maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
MonkeyOwain12 wrote:I think that everyone regards Gatland as a good coach.
So, surely we should be able to understand that he holds Howley, McBride et al in high regard. I'd rather trust his instincts rather than my own opinion at the moment.

Let' not forget, the record shows that Howley is a 6 Nations winning Head Coach.

Even Henry, Hansen and Smith were lambasted. They evolved, and started new trends, rather than follow trends. It must be said though, I think they probably had a little more natural talent to choose from!

Howley's Autumn record also shows he is a wooden spoon coach (4 losses from 4). The set piece ha fallen apart since 2014 and the back play have done like 2 different moves throughout Howley's tenure. These coaches were a jobs for the boys appointment.

The scrum has been a weakness since Adam Jones was a force to be reckoned with. But those same players have the same problems at regional level. I'm sure you are right that a world class scrum coach could perform a miracle, Ledesma did so for the Bazzers but Ledesma is under contract.

So what do we do?

Howley is somewhat understandable as he's been with Gatland for a long time. I don't get McBryde's appointment though. IMO we shouldn't have hired him in the first place and neither should have had their contracts recently renewed. Oh well, as long as Gatland keeps holding it together.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:24 am

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

Playing very well for Racing from what I've seen. Yes he is a vital cog and is effective when it comes to destroying opposition mauls. I don't think he is undervalued, in Gatland's eyes him and AWJ have been the first choice lock combo since 2011. It's a very good 2nd row. Bradley Davies is also playing well.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:27 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

Playing very well for Racing from what I've seen. Yes he is a vital cog and is effective when it comes to destroying opposition mauls. I don't think he is undervalued, in Gatland's eyes him and AWJ have been the first choice lock combo since 2011. It's a very good 2nd row. Bradley Davies is also playing well.

Comes off a lot off the bench no? Gatland seems to prefer Ball.. just looked at ESPN and in last 2 seasons he's played 14 tests, come off the bench 7 times, started 7 times. Just don't get it myself, very influential player for me.

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Post by MonkeyOwain12 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:35 am

A little off topic.

Just read that the WRU have signed with UA for 9 years. Kit and Autumn Internationals sponsor.
Any idea how much this is worth?

A very long deal, takes away the potential of possibly two new (and lucrative) contracts,

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/35672.php#.VqYHwDhf3IV

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:45 am

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

Playing very well for Racing from what I've seen. Yes he is a vital cog and is effective when it comes to destroying opposition mauls. I don't think he is undervalued, in Gatland's eyes him and AWJ have been the first choice lock combo since 2011. It's a very good 2nd row. Bradley Davies is also playing well.

Comes off a lot off the bench no? Gatland seems to prefer Ball.. just looked at ESPN and in last 2 seasons he's played 14 tests, come off the bench 7 times, started 7 times. Just don't get it myself, very influential player for me.

I can't think of any specific occasions where another lock has been preferred, except some games for Davies in the world cup just gone, but he was playing well too. Charteris also gets injured a fair bit so that might explain some of the stats. Not so sure he is influential but very good at what he does, which is why him and AWJ form such a great combination.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:49 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

Playing very well for Racing from what I've seen. Yes he is a vital cog and is effective when it comes to destroying opposition mauls. I don't think he is undervalued, in Gatland's eyes him and AWJ have been the first choice lock combo since 2011. It's a very good 2nd row. Bradley Davies is also playing well.

Comes off a lot off the bench no? Gatland seems to prefer Ball.. just looked at ESPN and in last 2 seasons he's played 14 tests, come off the bench 7 times, started 7 times. Just don't get it myself, very influential player for me.

I can't think of any specific occasions where another lock has been preferred, except some games for Davies in the world cup just gone, but he was  playing well too. Charteris also gets injured a fair bit so that might explain some of the stats. Not so sure he is influential but very good at what he does, which is why him and AWJ form such a great combination.

He's infleuntial because for me whenever he plays Wales get that platform in the scrums and lineout and that is the key to their entire game. No other player has that level of impact from the front 5. Jones is a tough competitor yes but Davies isn't that bad himself in that role... but its the lack of options outside of Charteris which makes him so important. Why Racing took him in, why Bath have taken him in.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:55 am

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Wales have played the same way since Gatland took over. And have won 2/3 grand slams playing that way.

So what is broken? i don't know?

The set piece.

How is Charteris doing? Everytime he plays for Wales the scrum settles, the lineout functions well and teams are cautious about forming rolling mauls. Such an undervalued player by the management in my opinion. Reminds me of Ian Jones and I'd play him above any lock in Europe.

Playing very well for Racing from what I've seen. Yes he is a vital cog and is effective when it comes to destroying opposition mauls. I don't think he is undervalued, in Gatland's eyes him and AWJ have been the first choice lock combo since 2011. It's a very good 2nd row. Bradley Davies is also playing well.

Comes off a lot off the bench no? Gatland seems to prefer Ball.. just looked at ESPN and in last 2 seasons he's played 14 tests, come off the bench 7 times, started 7 times. Just don't get it myself, very influential player for me.

I can't think of any specific occasions where another lock has been preferred, except some games for Davies in the world cup just gone, but he was  playing well too. Charteris also gets injured a fair bit so that might explain some of the stats. Not so sure he is influential but very good at what he does, which is why him and AWJ form such a great combination.

He's infleuntial because for me whenever he plays Wales get that platform in the scrums and lineout and that is the key to their entire game. No other player has that level of impact from the front 5. Jones is a tough competitor yes but Davies isn't that bad himself in that role... but its the lack of options outside of Charteris which makes him so important. Why Racing took him in, why Bath have taken him in.

In that regard then yes, he is. I remember him single-handedly destroying the French pack in the last 6 Nations but unfortunately he didn't get MOTM. As for scrums, all our props need to improve their technique as there is only so much the 2nd row can do. I was thinking more of a leadership role when you mentioned influential, that's one of Jones' strengths IMO. I guess it's not often (at least outside of SA) that you get a good lock pushing 7 foot!

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Post by fa0019 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:05 pm

Charteris' scrum work too is surprisingly good for someone perceived (naivelly) as a 7ft bean pole. Problem is that everyone wants locks to be ball carrying, gut busting flank cover tacklers these days and overlook things like... their primary function as a rugby player.
Secure all your scrums, secure all your lineouts and you'll do more than a player not so efficient come the set piece but gets you the odd steal now and again.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:10 pm

fa0019 wrote:Charteris' scrum work too is surprisingly good for someone perceived (naivelly) as a 7ft bean pole.

That's the thing with Charteris, his height makes people think he's light, when he really isn't.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:12 pm

In other news guys, we've recently confirmed an autumn fixture against Japan - I guess it's our chance to get revenge for the McBryde mishap steam. We will be playing four fixtures in that series. It's not ideal right after the Lions tour, that's if we get another large representation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35399388

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Post by MonkeyOwain12 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:15 pm

Great fixture to get I reckon.
Although, right after the Lions tour? Isn't it for this year?

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:21 pm

Yeah you're right. I sometimes get my days of the week mixed up - it now appears I'm getting my years mixed up...

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Post by MonkeyOwain12 Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:26 pm

To be fair, it wouldn't be that long after a four match tour to New Zealand.
Although it seems as though a lot of our players will get some rest after the regular season now!!

Glad to see us play a tier 2 nation, a chance to blood younger players with some experienced internationals. I'm sure that Jamie Joseph will get them very well organised and an attacking force too.


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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 25 Jan 2016, 7:21 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And our attack is blunt and predictable.

You could say that Wales was predictable

If you go back too the time that Shane Williams played for Wales then "YES". you could say Wales was predictable, very predictable. every game they would look like they did not wan't to be playing today for what ever reason. Then in the last 10/20 minutes it would dawn on them, EH we have a game too win. They would then wait for the likes of Shane William to had a bit spark in the game and maybe win by 1/2 points .


I am not so sure they play that way now.

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:31 am

Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:42 am

maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

Funny how they singled him out though when we have the likes of Anscombe, Amos, Warburton, Lydiate, T Morgan, Li WIlliams, Faleatu, Jenkins, Allen all short on game time really.
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Post by munkian Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:42 am

maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

Then why pick him ?
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Post by munkian Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:43 am

In other news, Keef Earls has been linked to Saracens
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Post by maestegmafia Tue 26 Jan 2016, 10:46 am

I do t think Priestland deserves to be there. But the squad selection was a very predictable one.

I am looking forward to Owen Williams getting a bit more luck with his availability and fitness at the right time for us.

He is looking a very measured player for tigers

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 26 Jan 2016, 4:05 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I do t think Priestland deserves to be there. But the squad selection was a very predictable one.

I am looking forward to Owen Williams getting a bit more luck with his availability and fitness at the right time for us.

He is looking a very measured player for tigers


Isn't he out with a broken jaw ? We will not be seeing him anytime soon.

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Post by Knowsit17 Tue 26 Jan 2016, 5:00 pm

munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

Then why pick him ?

Lack of options probably. We're quite thin on established 10's behind Biggar. Hook is no longer seen as fit for the task. Owen Williams picked up a nasty injury this month. Anscombe might be an option but he may also be needed at fullback. Don't know if Patchell would serve, apparently the coaches don't think so...

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 27 Jan 2016, 12:34 am

Knowsit17 wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

Then why pick him ?

Lack of options probably. We're quite thin on established 10's behind Biggar. Hook is no longer seen as fit for the task. Owen Williams picked up a nasty injury this month. Anscombe might be an option but he may also be needed at fullback. Don't know if Patchell would serve, apparently the coaches don't think so...

Not really sure what there opinion is of Patchell?

He has been I the squad a while, he's been playing well. I don't think anyone disagrees that he is playing well.

What are his negative points?

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Post by Gwlad Wed 27 Jan 2016, 5:17 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And our attack is blunt and predictable.

You could say that Wales was predictable

If you go back too the time that Shane Williams played for Wales then "YES". you could say Wales was predictable, very predictable.  every game they would look like they did not wan't to be playing today for what ever reason. Then in the last 10/20 minutes it would dawn on them, EH we have a game too win. They would then wait for the likes of Shane William to had a bit spark in the game and maybe win by 1/2 points .


I am not so sure they play that way now.

Its like a caveman's take on rugby…..picard

What you are misunderstanding is that our style does not suit dreary set piece rugby and that when we tend to score a lot of our points when the game opens up in the last third.

For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

And i would say that with 4 Championships in 10 years its been pretty effective, so i guess that at least is predictable.

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Post by True Raven Wed 27 Jan 2016, 8:29 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
munkian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Priestlands lack of game time at Bath is a worrying factor for the Welsh coaches

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35402233

Then why pick him ?

Lack of options probably. We're quite thin on established 10's behind Biggar. Hook is no longer seen as fit for the task. Owen Williams picked up a nasty injury this month. Anscombe might be an option but he may also be needed at fullback. Don't know if Patchell would serve, apparently the coaches don't think so...

Not really sure what there opinion is of Patchell?

He has been I the squad a while, he's been playing well. I don't think anyone disagrees that he is playing well.

What are his negative points?

That he's got hook syndrome, wants to play fly half no matter what yet is probably best suited to a different position. I've always thought patchells a better 15 than 10 but that's just my opinion

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 27 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

Patch is erratic but I still feel it's too soon to be judging. He is a good goal-kicker most weeks and tends to score tries from both positions. A very good player, I hope he continues to improve.

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Post by Blueschief Wed 27 Jan 2016, 10:53 am

Patchell is a better full back than fly half, he's a good player but is prone to Hook type howlers in decision making and tackling. He's got a great boot on him though. I think moving to Scarlets and being coached by Steven Jones will be the making of him.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 27 Jan 2016, 1:41 pm

Blueschief wrote:Patchell is a better full back than fly half, he's a good player but is prone to Hook type howlers in decision making and tackling. He's got a great boot on him though. I think moving to Scarlets and being coached by Steven Jones will be the making of him.

I imagine though that he has gone to the Scarlets with the hope of playing at No10, with Williams there at XV he's not going to get much game time there so it seems he will be battling it out with the other 10s.
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Post by Blueschief Wed 27 Jan 2016, 1:49 pm

I agree, having reread my post I should have been clearer, I meant for Cardiff he's better at full back, tho next season with Steven Jones mentoring him he will hopefully make a great fly half.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 27 Jan 2016, 1:57 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Blueschief wrote:Patchell is a better full back than fly half, he's a good player but is prone to Hook type howlers in decision making and tackling. He's got a great boot on him though. I think moving to Scarlets and being coached by Steven Jones will be the making of him.

I imagine though that he has gone to the Scarlets with the hope of playing at No10, with Williams there at XV he's not going to get much game time there so it seems he will be battling it out with the other 10s.

That's a good thing in my opinion as blues seem resided to wanting Anscombe as ten and not Patchell.

I agree with BC that Steven Jones coaching him could really find his potential.

With regards to Wales, maybe they are being hesitant to rush Patchell. Many people saw the way Biggar played probably to early in his career for Wales, but now a few years down the line has matured into a very decent flyhalf.

Same could be apparent to Patchell, give him time and he may be fighting Biggar for the Wales ten shirt. If we add in other developing players like Owen William's and Sam Davies, both like Patchell show a great deal of promise for the future, we may have some superb depth at flyhalf in a few years time.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 27 Jan 2016, 2:18 pm

Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 27 Jan 2016, 2:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 27 Jan 2016, 2:56 pm

Davies is developing very well, maybe beyond some of our expectations. It should be interesting to watch as we have some very competent 9's and 10's developing for the future.

thumbsup

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 27 Jan 2016, 3:01 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Davies is developing very well, maybe beyond some of our expectations. It should be interesting to watch as we have some very competent 9's and 10's developing for the future.

thumbsup

I agree it has been a surprise to me too. He looked like a weak link a few season ago, but now is proving on the big stage that he can handle it. Similarly for Owen Williams at Tigers. Hopefully that will also include Patchell next season at Scarlets

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 27 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

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Post by munkian Wed 27 Jan 2016, 4:28 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

Agree, its certainly not 'heads up rugby' despite the coaches saying they encourage it.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 27 Jan 2016, 5:02 pm

munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

Agree, its certainly not 'heads up rugby' despite the coaches saying they encourage it.

It does puzzle me though when you compare Halfpenny and Liam Williams. Halfpennys first instinct seems to kick where as Williams' seems to be attack/run. Now when you look at our overall game plan it would suggest Williams is ignoring team orders.

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Post by Knowsit17 Wed 27 Jan 2016, 6:23 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

Agree, its certainly not 'heads up rugby' despite the coaches saying they encourage it.

It does puzzle me though when you compare Halfpenny and Liam Williams.  Halfpennys first instinct seems to kick where as Williams' seems to be attack/run.  Now when you look at our overall game plan it would suggest Williams is ignoring team orders.


Some have argued that Halfpenny's injuries are blessings in disguise, for the reason you say. Williams is never shy to attempt to spark a counter. Halfpenny may have the basic attributes of a fine fullback (i.e. great catching and kicking skills) but will only try to spring a counter once every ten games. Starting Halfpenny, Wales look more cautious, predictable and far less likely to cut loose in games.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 27 Jan 2016, 7:26 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

Agree, its certainly not 'heads up rugby' despite the coaches saying they encourage it.

It does puzzle me though when you compare Halfpenny and Liam Williams.  Halfpennys first instinct seems to kick where as Williams' seems to be attack/run.  Now when you look at our overall game plan it would suggest Williams is ignoring team orders.


Some have argued that Halfpenny's injuries are blessings in disguise, for the reason you say. Williams is never shy to attempt to spark a counter. Halfpenny may have the basic attributes of a fine fullback (i.e. great catching and kicking skills) but will only try to spring a counter once every ten games. Starting Halfpenny, Wales look more cautious, predictable and far less likely to cut loose in games.

If both were fully fit and on form then I would start Williams at XV and Halfpenny on the wing or at least let them swap and change etc.
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