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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by George Carlin Wed 20 Jan 2016, 12:13 pm

6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Scot_f10     6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Englan10
SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
6 February 2016
KO: 16:50 GMT
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC, RTE, FR2, DMAX / ITV(H)

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

133 Played 133
42 Won 73
18 Drawn 18
73 Lost 42
1,132 Points 1,547

B. Recent Form

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

1 October 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
16 – 12 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Pia_mi10
15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Matt Scott
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
09. Greig Laidlaw (captain)

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Willem Nel
04. Richie Gray
05. Jonny Gray
06. John Barclay
07. John Hardie
08. David Denton

16. Stuart McInally
17. Gordon Reid
18. Zander Fagerson
19. Tim Swinson
20. Blair Cowan
21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Duncan Weir
23. Duncan Taylor

ENGLAND
6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Daisy_11
15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Owen Farrell
11. Jack Nowell
10. George Ford
09. Danny Care

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Joe Launchbury
05. George Kruis
06. Chris Robshaw
07. James Haskell
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Paul Hill
19. Courtney Lawes
20. Jack Clifford
21. Ben Youngs
22. Alex Goode
23. Ollie Devoto


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 04 Feb 2016, 12:29 pm; edited 4 times in total
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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Jan 2016, 1:29 pm

A. Head to Head

133 Played 133
42 Won 73
18 Drawn 18
73 Lost 42
1,132 Points 1,547

18 draws seems high!

England won 20-0 last time they visited Murrayfield. I think we'll do better this time!

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Post by Shifty Wed 20 Jan 2016, 1:42 pm

I can't see England losing their first game of Eddie Jones's reign. England have too much fire power to be honest.
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Post by RDW Wed 20 Jan 2016, 1:44 pm

Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common site in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

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Post by Shifty Wed 20 Jan 2016, 1:47 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common site in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

So it's not another Rowdy Roddy Piper scandal then? Whistle
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common sight in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

Here here.

I'm pretty sure she said in an interview last year that she supported the Scottish rugby team, loved Stockbridge and that Matt Scott should play at 12.

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Post by EWT Spoons Wed 20 Jan 2016, 2:02 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common sight in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

Here here.

I'm pretty sure she said in an interview last year that she supported the Scottish rugby team, loved Stockbridge and that Matt Scott should play at 12.

I've invited her over to come and live with me to gain residency. Not heard back but I'm feeling confident. Fingers Crossed

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Post by RDW Wed 20 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common sight in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

Here here.

I'm pretty sure she said in an interview last year that she supported the Scottish rugby team, loved Stockbridge and that Matt Scott should play at 12.

She's a Season Ticket holder at Edinburgh apparently - that's probably why you've never seen her!

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Post by munkian Wed 20 Jan 2016, 2:19 pm

I think it will be close. Scots pack is tidy as is the 9/10. Centers are strong too.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Jan 2016, 2:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Before any non-Scots ask, our team rep is a common sight in the streets of Scotland and we don't care for you accusations that she has absolutely no Scottish blood in her whatsoever!

Here here.

I'm pretty sure she said in an interview last year that she supported the Scottish rugby team, loved Stockbridge and that Matt Scott should play at 12.

She's a Season Ticket holder at Edinburgh apparently - that's probably why you've never seen her!

Believe me, if that were true I'd have seen her. She'd stand out a mile in that crowd!

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Post by nickj Wed 20 Jan 2016, 3:08 pm

Ashton copped 10 weeks for his indiscretion with Marshall, so that's him out of the 6 Nation. I wonder whether Wilson, and to a lesser extent Swinson, will get similar bans?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Jan 2016, 3:48 pm

nickj wrote:Ashton copped 10 weeks for his indiscretion with Marshall, so that's him out of the 6 Nation. I wonder whether Wilson, and to a lesser extent Swinson, will get similar bans?

Hopefully.

Not that I don't trust Cotter to ignore him, but we know that Scott Johnson is a big fan so I'd rather the decision taken out of the equation.

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Post by nlpnlp Wed 20 Jan 2016, 5:49 pm

After their respective performances in the World Cup, I am not quite sure where the "England have too much fire power to be honest." is coming from. I don't really see any area that England are likely to dominate Scotland, particularly a Scotland team at home with a bit of confidence.

If Hartley isn't fit and with Launchbury a doubt, we are likely to have a pretty inexperienced front 5. It is well documented we don't have an international quality 7. We haven't got an inside centre and may be reduced to playing the attacking talent of Owen Farrell there. And our wingers are either injured or getting banned.



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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Jan 2016, 11:01 pm

nlpnlp wrote:After their respective performances in the World Cup, I am not quite sure where the "England have too much fire power to be honest." is coming from.  I don't really see any area that England are likely to dominate Scotland, particularly a Scotland team at home with a bit of confidence.

If Hartley isn't fit and with Launchbury a doubt, we are likely to have a pretty inexperienced front 5.  It is well documented we don't have an international quality 7.  We haven't got an inside centre and may be reduced to playing the attacking talent of Owen Farrell there.  And our wingers are either injured or getting banned.

It's the Sarries quartet of Vunipola x2, George and Kruis that worries me and the likely flank combination of Robshaw and Haskell. If Launchbury is ruled out then that's a blow but I really don't see Itoje letting England down. These are all powerful blokes and whilst we do have a useful pack these days, we saw against Samoa that we can struggle against big ball carriers, and you don't get much bigger than the Vunipola brothers.

If Jones does go with Farrell at 12 I'd be delighted but I don't think he'll make that error. Otherwise there's little to celebrate about having to face Joseph and Watson, plus Brown tore us to shreds last time England visited Murrayfield.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 21 Jan 2016, 7:00 am

So having seen the squad, how confident are England fans generally, then? 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February 1347041234
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Post by Breadvan Thu 21 Jan 2016, 7:58 am

Reasonably confident George but given Scotlands WC campaign, at Murrayfield, first game etc its a lot more daunting. However how are we going to play? Throw it around no fear style like Japan in the WC or revert to a more structured gameplan? A mix of both hopefully. I like EJ giving Hartley the captaincy, his choice of staff and the overall squad.
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Post by RDW Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:01 am

Jones keeps banging on about England needing to play winning rugby not necessarily entertaining rugby, so that suggests a tight game plan.

That could all be a rouse though!

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:09 am

I'm fairly confident both Hartley & Launch will start as Joe is playing for Wasps this Sat. against Leinster & Hartley has started recently for Saints & the Beeb are stating he will be named captain on Monday.

Wingers will be Watson & Nowell (if fit, if not then probably Rocko) & OF will almost certainly be at 12.
I think Haskell will probably start at 7.
Impressive forwards bench probably Marler,George,Hill,Itoje & Clifford. Four of which will probably be starters for years to come.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:09 am

George Carlin wrote:So having seen the squad, how confident are England fans generally, then? 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February 1347041234

Every year, since 1990 it seems, Scotland enter the 5/6Ns promising a new dawn only to fall flat on their arses. They have to come good some time surely?

So not confident at all.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:35 am

LondonTiger wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So having seen the squad, how confident are England fans generally, then? 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February 1347041234

Every year, since 1990 it seems, Scotland enter the 5/6Ns promising a new dawn only to fall flat on their arses. They have to come good some time surely?
You'd think LT, wouldn't you? picard

However, I am not too far away from 40 now and I am constantly amazed by the breadth, width and height of the new ways Scotland finds to kick me in the nuts, year after year after year.
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Post by beshocked Thu 21 Jan 2016, 8:57 am

George Carlin to answer your question - Seeing Eddie Jones squad selection - makes me very confident.

Eddie Jones potential howlers - picking Hartley as captain whose not even fully fit and is one of the dirtiest players in rugby and starting him. Haskell at 7 - he's not a 7, he's not a particularly intelligent player. Farrell at 12 - he's not a 12, he's not a particularly intelligent person either.

These selections could seriously wreck England's chances in game 1.


Personally find it odd that so many England fans are okay with picking Hartley as captain.

Yes he's an experienced international - I would say that's the only thing in his favour to be honest.

Form - non existent
Discipline - shocking

Surely they should be two important factors for being announced as captain?

England have an opportunity either to start a hooker whose in very good form this season, strong in the set piece and has a spotless disciplinary record, top bloke albeit is still mostly unproven at international level or on the other hand start a hooker who though an experienced international is one of the dirtiest players in rugby union, struggling for form and fitness.


If England are going to pick the likes of Kruis,Mako and Billy to start vs Scotland I think it would make a lot of sense to pick their team mate, Jamie George too because players familiar with one another is a good thing.

If England pick Hartley at hooker then Lawes for familiarity sake should be in the starting line up too. Obviously form means little to some posters who want to see Hartley as captain so why not?

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:13 am

Is picking Hartley as captain a way of Jones trying to mould his 'talent' aka badboy done good?

Or with him being a bit of a twart, will the referees already have a (justified) negative judgement on him and not really take him seriously?

England's success will come down to selection and as Beshocked/nlpnlp mentioned above, those three key areas will either be appropriate or disastrous.

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Post by munkian Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:15 am

So whose the alternative choice ? Most would say Launchbury
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Post by George Carlin Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:21 am

I presume that England fans think the loose forwards will be 6. Robshaw 7. Haskell 8. Vunipola?

If that's who is chosen and Cotter goes with 6. Cowan 7. Hardie 8. Strauss with Alex Dunbar taking out Farrell in midfield, then I agree with Beshocked that the breakdown could be an issue for England.
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Post by beshocked Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:23 am

Tattie I believe it's Eddie Jones way of showing how we differs from Lancaster.

The silly thing about picking Haskell at 7 and Farrell at 12 is that he'll be doing two things that Lancaster was criticised for - poor selection at 12 and not picking a proper 7.

In regards to Hartley
I think the first question that needs to be asked:

Does Hartley deserve to start vs Scotland?

Generally a captain is a nailed on starter.

Hartley is not in form, struggling for fitness. It seems an unnecessary gamble.

Is it good for team morale to pick Hartley as captain? What kind of message does it send to the players?

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Post by RDW Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:23 am

Haskell at 7?? Headscratch

Also, Yahoo

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Post by Cyril Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:26 am

Scottish fans seem very, very confident. It must be late January.

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Post by RDW Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:28 am

Cyril wrote:Scottish fans seem very, very confident. It must be late January.

I wouldn't say so - 123456789 maybe, but the majority of us have been realistic in our prospects.

My excitement at Haskell at 7 is that he ain't no 7, and John Hardie is - a very good one at that.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:29 am

Cyril wrote:Scottish fans seem very, very confident. It must be late January.
Nope, we are not confident at all. We know the drill by now.

Half of the Scotland team is quasi-broken, the other half is not in good form. That's the truth of it.

Read Tom English's article on the Beeb - it's spot on.

However, to suggest that Eddie cannot make early selection mistakes is not the case either.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:29 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Haskell at 7?? Headscratch

Also, Yahoo

Haskell plays 7 for Wasps. I actually think he does a good job there, and with Robshaw at 6, Cole at 3 and Launchbury at lock they have a few handy breakdown players. Whilst I think Hardie is a better 7 than anything England currently have, I wouldn't get too complacent. Haskell is also a pretty handy ball carrier as well to supplement the Vunipola brothers and Jamie George.

We have a good pack, but player for player I still think we'll be doing well to get parity. Dickinson being fit is really important for us.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:30 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Haskell at 7?? Headscratch

Also, Yahoo

Haskell plays 7 for Wasps. I actually think he does a good job there, and with Robshaw at 6, Cole at 3 and Launchbury at lock they have a few handy breakdown players. Whilst I think Hardie is a better 7 than anything England currently have, I wouldn't get too complacent. Haskell is also a pretty handy ball carrier as well to supplement the Vunipola brothers and Jamie George.

We have a good pack, but player for player I still think we'll be doing well to get parity. Dickinson being fit is really important for us.
This 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Finger11.
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Post by RDW Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:31 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Haskell at 7?? Headscratch

Also, Yahoo

Haskell plays 7 for Wasps. I actually think he does a good job there, and with Robshaw at 6, Cole at 3 and Launchbury at lock they have a few handy breakdown players. Whilst I think Hardie is a better 7 than anything England currently have, I wouldn't get too complacent. Haskell is also a pretty handy ball carrier as well to supplement the Vunipola brothers and Jamie George.

We have a good pack, but player for player I still think we'll be doing well to get parity. Dickinson being fit is really important for us.

No denying he's a good player and a big physical beast but I'd fancy our chances at the breakdown if we play Cowan and Hardie against him and one-turnover-a-season Robshaw!

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Post by RDW Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:41 am

Although as I said earlier there are trade offs in picking a specific type of player – although Robshaw and Haskell ain’t no Pooper they are incredibly physical and will look to dominate in the tight exchanges. Their rolling maul in particular will be pretty difficult to contain and Haskell adds a real ball carrying threat.

I don’t think he’s the best choice at 7 for England though.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

Haskell is an acceptable 7 at club level, but is really a 6 and Robshaw is a 6.5 so between the 2 you probably do get enough fetching and open play ability. Turns England's flanks into a left and right system instead of blindside-openside. Really what does Kvesic have to do to be the starting 7?

Hardie will be destructive if he has Barclay or Cowan to help out and it won't matter about the ball carriers if they can't get quick ball. Owen Farell at 12 is just asking for a yellow. Strange selection from Jones if this all comes to pass.

As for Scotland we will have Scott (or Dunbar), Grays x 2, Strauss/Denton and Ford as big ball carriers with Hardie a surprisingly strong carrier as well.

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:42 am

I'm going to go with Scotland 20-23 England.

Scrappy game for the most-part with errors from both sides.

We're also forgetting Scotland has a new backs coach in Jason O'Halloran. Curious to see if he makes any difference over the 6Ns, don't think we'll see anything revolutionary in the England game, but perhaps we'll drop the ball less!

If Scotland haven't sorted their restarts out it'll be a bloody long afternoon
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Post by BamBam Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:52 am

I'm still hoping the Haskell to 7 stuff is a smokescreen while one of Kvesic/Clifford can go in without all the pressure

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Post by BamBam Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:53 am

Does anyone know when the players are meeting up with England, I assume its after this weekends Euro games, so will the next round of the Aviva will be played without the internationals?

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by Majestic83 Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:54 am

I will be delighted if England select Haskell at openside. Yes he is a big guy but he doesn't use his mass particularly well, his carries he often runs very up right and has in the past year or so lost the ball in contact. This has happened a fair few times as he carries high a tackle comes in and then a second tackler comes in and rips it out.
As beshocked says Haskell isn't that intelligent a player and does give away penalties, he gets frustrated and trys to hard in some situations.
I would be far more concerned if they picked Kvesic or Clifford at openside who are both very good players and far more suited to openside.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by LondonTiger Thu 21 Jan 2016, 9:57 am

Reasons why we are expecting to see Owen Farrell at 12:

1) Of the four centres named in the EPS, two are 13s (JJ, Daly) and two are injured (Slade, Manu)
2) The two replacements named to cover (Hill, Devoto) are young, inexperienced and probably in the squad more for experience and development.
3) Sam Hill has not played since limping off on the 25 minute mark on Boxing day.
4) Olly Devoto is not playing for Bath.
5) England will release 10 EPS members back to their clubs for AP duty on tuesday evening - not reporting back again till a week Monday.

It would be great if either of Hill or Devoto could start this weekend and thus be at the forefront of Eddie Jones mind, but time is against them.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by lostinwales Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:01 am

Cue Haskell having his one brilliant game of the season leading to him nailing the 7 spot for the rest of the 6N playing increasingly badly each time.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:16 am

I don't really see Hartley as that much of a discipline risk myself. I've said it before a lot of his bans have come through 50 50 decisions against him where the perception of him seemed to be used against him which I personally think is wrong. That said I think Jones is going to go with launchbury as his captain.

Whoever gets picked at 12 seems to be holding the place for Tuilagi. In a team where there are going to be a few new combos Ford and Farrell have played together quite a lot. Don't think Devoto will make it through the next cut so Hill or Farrell. Out of the possible combos think the best would be Ford, Farrell, Joseph or Ford, Hill, Daly. I think we'll see the former.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:17 am

That's still a finger in the air job as none of us have a clue on what Jones really thinks. And you've probably got that spot on lost!

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:19 am

Haskell may be big, and an effective ball carrier, but Hardie is uncompromising in the tackle. He'll have come up against far superior players.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by lostinwales Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:32 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Haskell may be big, and an effective ball carrier, but Hardie is uncompromising in the tackle. He'll have come up against far superior players.

Just noticed that they were both with the Highlanders at the same time. Haskell can also be 'uncompromising in the tackle'..

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:35 am

lostinwales wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Haskell may be big, and an effective ball carrier, but Hardie is uncompromising in the tackle. He'll have come up against far superior players.

Just noticed that they were both with the Highlanders at the same time. Haskell can also be 'uncompromising in the tackle'..

Keep him away from Dunbar then please. He's only just come back.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:08 pm

Ill be amazed if Kvesic doesn't start at 7.

6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 Billy V

19 - Clifford

That's a pretty strong back row for me.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 21 Jan 2016, 3:51 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ill be amazed if Kvesic doesn't start at 7.

6 Robshaw
7 Kvesic
8 Billy V

19 - Clifford

That's a pretty strong back row for me.

That would be my choice, but Kvesic is listed as injury cover which I took to mean he was behind Haskell/Clifford in the pecking order.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 21 Jan 2016, 4:10 pm

It was a little puzzling I admit, but I think its just a way off Eddie using all the allowable changes etc.

And in all honesty...Robshaw and Clifford have looked very good together anyway so I wouldn't have a problem if they lined up on the flank.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by king_carlos Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:03 am

1.Dickinson - Mako Vunipola
2.Ford - Hartley
3.Nel - Cole
4.J Gray - Launchbury
5.R Gray - Kruis
6.Cowan - Robshaw
7.Hardie - Haskell/Kvesic
8.Strauss - Billy Vunipola

9.Laidlaw - Care/Youngs
10.Russell - Farrell

11.Seymour - Nowell
12.Dunbar - S Hill/Devoto
13.Bennett - Joseph
14.Maitland - Watson
15.Hogg - Brown

16.McInally - George
17.Reid - Marler
18.Low - P Hill
19.Swinson - Itoje
20.Denton - Clifford
21.Hidalgo-Clyne - Youngs/Care
22.Weir/Jackson - Ford
23.Lamont/Scott/Taylor - Daly

Looking at those two likely line-ups I just hope that both sides try to play to their strengths and run the ball. I really hope that neither teams goes out with a game plan that piles far more emphasis on stopping the other side from playing rather than allowing themselves to play.

A balance of the two is needed but too often we see attacking opportunities squandered due to sides being told to never play from their own half and having a fear of going for it when it's on.

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

Post by Cyril Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:06 am

Playing at Murrayfield England are normally inhibited by the weather and/or the pitch (probably cost them the title in 2014). Is the pitch now a reasonable playing standard?

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6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February Empty Re: 6N 2016: Scotland v England, 6 February

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