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6 Nations - Where does each team stand?

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Post by bsando Sat 23 Jan 2016, 12:25 pm

Not long now until we can all be excited for the opening round of the 6N. I love this tournament for many reasons. It makes February/March much more exciting as it is obviously a very cold and depressing time of year. The rivalries between countries is rife with history and the banter between fans before and after games is always brilliant. Even if you can't afford to go to the games you can be sure to enjoy them at the pub. Its rugby at its best. You never know what you're going to get.

So, how do we feel about each teams chances?

This year feels very open, however going by past form/results I personally think the following will unfold..

France - Will surprise a few people. They've ditched Bastereuad in midfield (good choice I think) and are concentrating on their youth. New coach too obviously. I think they may do well but I don't see them winning the tournament.

Wales - Time and time again they do well in the 6N. I think this year will be no exception. They have a solid squad, a world class fly half and scrum half. I expect much and such the same from them, top half of the table I'd say.

Scotland - A much more balanced squad from last years one but a few injury issues. I'm expecting them to win at least two games this year.

Ireland - Lacking some old heads now, but still a class team with great coach and solid players all over the field. Again, I think they should be pushing for top half table finish but probably not the championship.

England - Great players, an experienced coach. Bit of an unknown factor is obviously causing excitement amongst English supporters. I think we'll see some great stuff and some bad stuff. As far as results go I am as perplexed as everyone else. Expecting a revival from the RWC though.

Italy - They need to raise their game. I think they can be an extremely frustrating team, I always find their fixture with Scotland difficult to watch. However, my overwhelming feeling is wooden spoon.

So my rough guess at the table would be..

Wales
England
France
Ireland
Scotland
Italy

Your thoughts on each team two weeks out from kick off?

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 23 Jan 2016, 1:57 pm

France

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game. Years of success, development of young players and a great eye for spotting true talent. He also has some superb players in his squad. Yacouba Camara could be the star of the tournament. I think France will be the big surprise. Although Noves has not coached an international team, he knows French rugby inside out, he has grown up with the six nations, played in the five nations, he knows what is needed to win.

Wales

A settled squad, improved strength in the squad through recent injury crisis at the World Cup, fourth in the world rankings. They are the team to beat. They don't have as many world class players as France or Ireland, but this squad know each other inside out, their grit and determination as a squad is impressive.

Scotland

Also now one of the more settled squads, serious talent in the backline and a pack that play a good set piece and great offload game. Good fixtures with England 1st up could really start their season well.

Ireland

Missing two not just world class players but two legends of the game now and these guys have been the heart of the greatest period in Irish rugby history. But there are still so many talented guys in this team, Heasliip, SOB, Best, Sexton and Murray...! They have more talent to come through not in the squad. A couple of unfortunate injuries too. I think this is not their year, but I think the next few years look very bright.

England

New coach, some great new selections to the squad but not enough of a revamp in my opinion, unless the new blood get chances to play, this doesn't look much different to the team that failed at the RWC. Like Ireland there is loads of serious talent coming through, Underhill, Itoje, Clifford, like Ireland I would be surprised to see England impress this year. Jones has no six nations experience and has only coached international level down south, his suggestion of selecting Hartley as skipper says it all.

Italy

I would be surprised if this is not their worst championship yet.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 23 Jan 2016, 3:08 pm

'So -

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game.'

And

'Jones has no six nations experience & only coached at international level down south'

Fact is Noves has hardly any international experience as a coach & also no 6Ns experience.

But don't let the facts spoil a one eyed view as usual.............

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 23 Jan 2016, 3:12 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'So -

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game.'

And

'Jones has no six nations experience & only coached at  international level down south'

Fact is Noves has hardly any international experience as a coach & also no 6Ns experience.

But don't let the facts spoil a one eyed view as usual.............

Typical post from you Trev

You never post your own thoughts on the subject, insteadyou always choose misquoting and trolling other people....!

What is the point of your post?

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Post by Breadvan Sat 23 Jan 2016, 3:45 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'So -

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game.'

And

'Jones has no six nations experience & only coached at  international level down south'

Fact is Noves has hardly any international experience as a coach & also no 6Ns experience.

But don't let the facts spoil a one eyed view as usual.............

clap So predictable too. All that was missing was a the token PRL dig.
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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 23 Jan 2016, 4:21 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'So -

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game.'

And

'Jones has no six nations experience & only coached at  international level down south'

Fact is Noves has hardly any international experience as a coach & also no 6Ns experience.

But don't let the facts spoil a one eyed view as usual.............

Typical post from you Trev

You never post your own thoughts on the subject, insteadyou always choose misquoting and trolling other people....!

What is the point of your post?

1) your in a minority of one
2) I post plenty of thoughts but fortunately most aren't involving you.
3) I have wasted enough time on you

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Post by TJ Sat 23 Jan 2016, 6:21 pm

I thought a good post from Maesteg there - you an be a very experienced coach with no international experience - look at Cotter!
Play the ball not the man chaps

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Post by Notch Sat 23 Jan 2016, 6:38 pm

Cyril wrote:I think it's probably best if people just put maestegmafia on ignore. He's derailing almost every thread these days Sad

There are only two certainties in life. That the sun will rise and that the mods on 606v2 will spend January, February and March dealing with English and Welsh fans acting the maggot towards each other!

We don't want to get into bannings and warnings and all the rest of it, its a lot of work and we all have our own jobs and lives to get on with at the same time. But every year someone ends up forcing our hand after taking the banter a bit too seriously. So please, for the love of God, be nice to each other okay?
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Post by Gwlad Sat 23 Jan 2016, 6:55 pm

Notch wrote:
Cyril wrote:I think it's probably best if people just put maestegmafia on ignore. He's derailing almost every thread these days Sad

There are only two certainties in life. That the sun will rise and that the mods on 606v2 will spend January, February and March dealing with English and Welsh fans acting the maggot towards each other!

We don't want to get into bannings and warnings and all the rest of it, its a lot of work and we all have our own jobs and lives to get on with at the same time. But every year someone ends up forcing our hand after taking the banter a bit too seriously. So please, for the love of God, be nice to each other okay?

Fair enough Notch but Cyril pops up like that rash you cant tell your mum about with his Welsh...derail.....whine....blah blah embarassingly often

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 23 Jan 2016, 6:57 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'So -

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game.'

And

'Jones has no six nations experience & only coached at  international level down south'

Fact is Noves has hardly any international experience as a coach & also no 6Ns experience.

But don't let the facts spoil a one eyed view as usual.............

Typical post from you Trev

You never post your own thoughts on the subject, insteadyou always choose misquoting and trolling other people....!

What is the point of your post?

1) your in a minority of one
2) I post plenty of thoughts but fortunately most aren't involving you.
3) I have wasted enough time on you

laughing

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Post by wickedwasp Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:25 pm

We know what Wales can do - and what they can't

England under Eddie - who knows? It may be "and now for something completely different" (spot the cunning Python reference) or it may be more of the same - who the hell knows

So, here are the options- Wales beat England or...........England beat Wales

And on that bombshell.............................

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:43 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Notch wrote:
Cyril wrote:I think it's probably best if people just put maestegmafia on ignore. He's derailing almost every thread these days Sad

There are only two certainties in life. That the sun will rise and that the mods on 606v2 will spend January, February and March dealing with English and Welsh fans acting the maggot towards each other!

We don't want to get into bannings and warnings and all the rest of it, its a lot of work and we all have our own jobs and lives to get on with at the same time. But every year someone ends up forcing our hand after taking the banter a bit too seriously. So please, for the love of God, be nice to each other okay?

Fair enough Notch but Cyril pops up like that rash you cant tell your mum about with his Welsh...derail.....whine....blah blah embarassingly often

Bit of pot kettle i think Gwalad Whistle

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:48 pm

Because of the changes with England and France and none of us really doing much in the world cup it will be very close and as ever home advantage will be crucial.

We (Wales) have probably the most settled squad and most experienced in terms of caps but our scrum was poor in the world cup and our attack not much better.

Those are the areas we need to improve on and I think with JD now back that will be a big help, a lot will depend on our returning injured players and how quick they get up to speed.
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Post by carpet baboon Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:51 pm

On topic, all teams are Schrödinger's cat. (Except Italy,sorry )
Possible champs
Possible chumps.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:06 pm

I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:15 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?
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Post by wickedwasp Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:18 pm

It's gonna be a great six nations.

Will the eternal dark horse (Scotland) finally come good?

Will England fulfil their potential (we're nearly, nearly, nearly world class, you know)?

Will Noves get France playing rugby again (preferably with one or two of the same players from match to match)?

Will Wales completely change their style and go back to the glory days?

Will Ireland stop playing the most boring rugby in the world?

Mmm............

Probably not.  Not that much has changed since last time.  All the teams (except Wales) are still trying to work out what works for them.

Chances are, Wales' limited, but effective gameplan may be enough.

But, we shall see....................................






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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:28 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Certainly got further than England. Very Happy

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Post by wickedwasp Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:33 pm

Let's see

We lost worst, then Wales, Ireland and Scotland lost better

That must be a great consolation

Until we change that mindset, we're all stuffed

Coming second is losing

SH get this, we don't

Sometimes I despair

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Post by TJ Sat 23 Jan 2016, 8:38 pm

Scotland? Its time to deliver. The best group of players for a long long time. A couple of real world class stars. No real weak points bar strength in depth in cruicial positions. A settled team now with a bit of experience although young and relatively inexperienced still

No more excuses. Its time to deliver. 3 wins is the minimum acceptable.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sun 24 Jan 2016, 12:43 am

As a Scotland supporter I have no doubt I'll be peeping through my fingers most of the tournament. I just hope we convert brave losses to wins, it's no coincidence we've had so many near misses, somethings gotta give this time (he says for the 5th time in a row)...

As for the rest I think England can nab it. Jones is very good at masking his plans, look at how much he downplayed Japan before the rwc. I have a feeling he will have them playing their club systems which could easily work in their favour. Obviously I hope we ruin the party but have a feeling we'll get a hammering.

Wales are the only known quantity, I suspect they'll do well enough. Top 3 most definitely. Top 2, possibly.

Ireland are a very sad case. As someone who touted them to do well at the world cup they really disappointed me. A few good young players coming through though, schmidt needs to change the gameplan though, they're not playing to their potential.

France. Who knows. They could have the world's best coach and I still wouldn't have a bloody clue. I love to see them playing well so I hope it's good France this year??

Italy. Desperately need a boost but it's not happening this year. They've hit a rut as there is absolutely no depth. I can't say much though as they beat us last year...
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Post by lostinwales Sun 24 Jan 2016, 3:33 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:01 am

lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

Ah the old ' on the day' argument. The nearly result haven't done Wales much good in the past and there hasn't been that many retirements. For Wales it's only Phillips I can think of and he wasn't in the original squad anyway.
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Post by eirebilly Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:37 am

After initially feeling that Ireland may have a tough time of it this 6N, I am starting to feel more optimistic. If Schmidt selects the form backs for Ireland, they could do very well. If not, it will be the same old story.

Wales are a very solid, well drilled and accurate team and I feel they will they will be tough to beat.

England, under jones, will perform. Jones is a very clever coach and the team will be out to impress him. (new coach honeymoon period)

Scotland, under Cotter, are starting to play their own brand of rugby and not that of countering oppositions. Could do very well.

France, not a clue here. They are a talented bunch of players but have gone off the boil the last few seasons.

Italy, wooden spoons with no wins I am afraid. The only hope they have got of getting any results is if the other teams see them as a means of introducing new players to their international setup.
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Post by Gwlad Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:13 am

I think Scotland have every chance if they can win their opener and gain momentum while staying injury free as they have even less strength in depth than Wales. Biggest game of their lives week 1.

Ireland may just have lost the other half of their talismanic duo. Huge pressure to produce the triple. Still a class squad with a very classy coach. But yet another poor showing at RWC and if they lose to Wales in the opener i think they not come back from it.

Wales need to find something else this tourney…maybe it is James' time. Hard to beat but prone to starting poorly, get the win in Ireland and I think they could go all the way but its a huge ask first up.

Italy well they just have to beat Scotland everything else is a brucie bonus

France. More and mor ether become less predictable and less like the threat of old. Their squad is heaving with talent and in Noves they have the provenance of Toulouse after the madness of Lievremont and Saint Andre. About time they shows dup for a 6 Nations.

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Post by whocares Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:22 am

As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

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Post by eirebilly Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:33 am

whocares wrote:As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

Quite a few, recently Schmidt won the 6N at his first attempt as Ireland coach.
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Post by maestegmafia Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:36 am

lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

I agree

Scotland play some great rugby and I hope it reaps rewards soon

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Post by whocares Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:44 am

eirebilly wrote:
whocares wrote:As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

Quite a few, recently Schmidt won the 6N at his first attempt as Ireland coach.

Thanks Billy, quite embarassing from myself!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:45 am

eirebilly wrote:
whocares wrote:As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

Quite a few, recently Schmidt won the 6N at his first attempt as Ireland coach.

Gatland won the Slam in 08 at first attempt.

As mentioned before I think Wales have the most settled sides with some established combinations in the 2nd row back row and centre and I guess we are one of the most experienced in terms of caps.

However that alone doesn't mean we will win anything as during the world cup our scrum was poor and our attack much better and in those ares (JD aside) we haven't changed personnel there.

If we can get a good start in Ireland then who knows what will happen.
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 24 Jan 2016, 11:21 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

Ah the old ' on the day' argument. The nearly result haven't done Wales much good in the past and there hasn't been that many retirements.  For Wales it's only Phillips I can think of and he wasn't in the original squad anyway.

On the day didn't every team have a decent/equal chance of doing so? It was a knock out game after all.... A shame that some English aren't too bright.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 24 Jan 2016, 11:27 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
whocares wrote:As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

Quite a few, recently Schmidt won the 6N at his first attempt as Ireland coach.

Gatland won the Slam in 08 at first attempt.

As mentioned before I think Wales have the most settled sides with some established combinations in the 2nd row back row and centre and I guess we are one of the most experienced in terms of caps.

However that alone doesn't mean we will win anything as during the world cup our scrum was poor and our attack much better and in those ares (JD aside) we haven't changed personnel there.

If we can get a good start in Ireland then who knows what will happen.

Interesting that you mention 2nd row. We're pretty well stocked there. The first choice pair are backed up by Davies, Ball and Day in that order - all of them playing well and some of them for teams in stellar form. Charteris is the lineout out man - not only does he catch and drive but he also wrecks opposition lineouts and driving mauls, thus we know we can nullify the main strength of some teams before even kicking off.

AWJ will be there starting with Charteris. He's in amazing form right now but I guess they do say (world) class is permanent Wink. He is also a very inspirational leader and often carries his team in every single game. He would be my choice for captain as it stands because I would opt to put Warbs on the bench. AWJ is simply world class and the best lock in the NH.

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Post by bsando Sun 24 Jan 2016, 11:29 am

maestegmafia wrote:France

Guy Noves is one of the most experienced coaches in the game. Years of success, development of young players and a great eye for spotting true talent. He also has some superb players in his squad. Yacouba Camara could be the star of the tournament. I think France will be the big surprise. Although Noves has not coached an international team, he knows French rugby inside out, he has grown up with the six nations, played in the five nations, he knows what is needed to win.

Wales

A settled squad, improved strength in the squad through recent injury crisis at the World Cup, fourth in the world rankings. They are the team to beat. They don't have as many world class players as France or Ireland, but this squad know each other inside out, their grit and determination as a squad is impressive.

Scotland

Also now one of the more settled squads, serious talent in the backline and a pack that play a good set piece and great offload game. Good fixtures with England 1st up could really start their season well.

Ireland

Missing two not just world class players but two legends of the game now and these guys have been the heart of the greatest period in Irish rugby history. But there are still so many talented guys in this team, Heasliip, SOB, Best, Sexton and Murray...! They have more talent to come through not in the squad. A couple of unfortunate injuries too. I think this is not their year, but I think the next few years look very bright.

England

New coach, some great new selections to the squad but not enough of a revamp in my opinion, unless the new blood get chances to play, this doesn't look much different to the team that failed at the RWC. Like Ireland there is loads of serious talent coming through, Underhill, Itoje, Clifford, like Ireland I would be surprised to see England impress this year. Jones has no six nations experience and has only coached international level down south, his suggestion of selecting Hartley as skipper says it all.

Italy

I would be surprised if this is not their worst championship yet.

Yes I think Wales vs Scotland and France vs England are going to be great games this year! Arguably the most settled teams and most unsettled teams taking one another on. On Italy, I noticed their squad seems to have been totally reshuffled. No tommaso Allen and a few other regular faces. Be interesting to see how they get on.


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Post by Pot Hale Sun 24 Jan 2016, 12:14 pm

Italy

Stuttering start that will continue to their final match.  Might get a win against Wales or Ireland.

Ireland

Having lost O'Gara, Wallace and now O'Driscoll and O'Driscoll, they are in disarray with poor performances in the European cup.  Schmidt needs use to the core of the Ulster team with one or two from Munster and Connacht.  Is there any Leinster player in his squad worthwhile selecting?

Wales

They'll probably lose a match but could still win it given they haven't changed much.

England

New coach, new captain.  They don't like coming second.  The French match might be interesting again.

France

Guy Noves.  Fofana. And Mr No 8 - Monsieur Picamoles.   Champions.
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Post by eirebilly Sun 24 Jan 2016, 12:19 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

Ireland

Having lost O'Gara, Wallace and now O'Driscoll and O'Driscoll, they are in disarray with poor performances in the European cup.  Schmidt needs use to the core of the Ulster team with one or two from Munster and Connacht.  Is there any Leinster player in his squad worthwhile selecting?


With all respect Pot, those Irish players you have named have been away for quite some time and Ireland have won the 6N without them...

The loss of POC, Henderson and POM will hurt Ireland but there is enough cover there.
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Post by Fanster Sun 24 Jan 2016, 1:22 pm

When it comes to thi time of year I work off probabilities and not possibilities, first 2/3 fixtures are key IMO to how teams are going to fair throughout the rest of the tournament, so in this sense...

Ireland v Wales - Can't call, could go either way, however tiny margins as in goal kicking, and squad being settled probably slightly favour Wales.

France v Italy - Well I expect France to come out swinging, Italy to struggle with the power game.

Scotland v England - Again, onus on England to show what they can do, and if they are at 75% I don't think Scotland will live with them, too many key players in poor form, Russell, Hogg and Denton have all been really poor lately.

With France playing Ireland at home next, and Wales home to Scotland both could go into week 3 with 2 wins, and a huge pressure game for boths ambitions.

Ireland simply have to beat Wales first up, IMO if they don't they'll go into week 4 without a win, away to France and England will be too much if dissapointed at home first!

I expect England to win their first 2, and then have momentum v Ireland at Twickers, If they win 3 from 3 I'd put my money on them to then beat Wales and France too.

My predictions...

England (GS)
Wales
France
Ireland
Scotland
Italy

Hard to say as a Welshman, and really sorry to Irish fans who will be expecting so much more.

Hope i'm wrong

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 24 Jan 2016, 1:56 pm

whocares wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
whocares wrote:As an unit , Wales is looking to be the safe bet to win the 6N. They only have depth issues on back 3 players but as proven during the RWC they can easily adapt.
Ireland has probably the most promising backline thanks to the Ulster lads but can they easily replace the likes of POM and Henderson?
England and mainly France, are sorry for the word, "rebuilding", did a new coach ever won a 6N on their first attempt?
Scotland 1st XV is quality, they need to win a game quick to gain confindence and momentum. 1st game is crucial for them.. Italy is nowhere near the threat they used to be am afraid, too many average players in the backs.

Quite a few, recently Schmidt won the 6N at his first attempt as Ireland coach.

Thanks Billy, quite embarassing from myself!

Mike Ruddock, Gatland and Howley too

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Post by lostinwales Sun 24 Jan 2016, 1:59 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

Ah the old ' on the day' argument. The nearly result haven't done Wales much good in the past and there hasn't been that many retirements.  For Wales it's only Phillips I can think of and he wasn't in the original squad anyway.

On the day didn't every team have a decent/equal chance of doing so? It was a knock out game after all.... A shame that some English aren't too bright.

Dear Mikey I would have expected better of you. I know your opinion of me isn't great but its a silly attack. The only reason I (and many others) actually talk up the Scotland Australia game is that with a little luck at the end of the game they could have won, and they contributed a great deal to that contest. None of the other 6N teams ever looked remotely like putting one over on their quarter final opponents.

It's still a loss, but it was a good performance.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 24 Jan 2016, 2:19 pm

I've tidied this thread up a bit.

I don't really think it's worth me writing anything else. It seems to make no difference what the mods say - you can't stop the kids wumming. Stop doing it, though.

Just keep reporting the posts and god willing, we will get to the end of this bloody tournament for another year.
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Post by Kingshu Sun 24 Jan 2016, 2:41 pm

The way I see it is that England, Wales and Ireland were all about the same level (points difference last year), France just a little below that and Scotland little bit off France and Italy well down.

England and France with new coaches should be refreshed and seeing as France have been poorly coached, I think we will see the biggest improvement from them.

Scotland even though they got the wooden spoon last year did show improvements and lost a couple of close games, world cup continued the improvement and I expect that this year will be a year Scottish fans are looking forward to rather than dreading, think though that its a bad year for them with 3 away games, I expect them to beat Italy, and someone else and scare another, and leave this 6 nations actually looking forward to 2017.

Ireland, defending champions but the even years are bad for us with away games to England and France.
Wales, top ranked, but not really ahead of the other main contenders.

So IMO its as close as last year, Wales, France and England all about the same level, Ireland just around that level and Scotland ready to spring a surprise. Shaping up to be good 6 nations with 4 nations having real hopes of winning it.

Looking at the Bookmakers odds (odds checker) to win the championship, they have England a good bit ahead as favs (2.75 or 34.4% chance of winning it), Wales and Ireland equal (4.33 or 23.1%), France a bit off (7 or 14.3%), Scotland a good bit down (17 or 5.9%), and Italy way off (1001 or 0.1%)

Taking into account weights of Money (where if lots of money goes on something the smaller the odds are pushed, no matter what the bookies number crunchers think).

% of market bets are put on
England 37.55%
Scotland 31.19%
Wales 13.69%
Ireland 8.45%
France 7.78%
Italy 1.35%

therefore to try and work out the true probablities England's odds should be pushed a bit bigger, Scotland's was well (or are astute people backing the value on them?) Ireland move to slightly lower odds than Wales, and Frances odds shorten

Therefore I make true odds something like

England 31.4% (chance of winning it)
Ireland 24.1%
Wales 23.1%
France 17.3%
Scotland 4.9%
Italy 0.1%





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Post by Pot Hale Sun 24 Jan 2016, 2:51 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Ireland

Having lost O'Gara, Wallace and now O'Driscoll and O'Driscoll, they are in disarray with poor performances in the European cup.  Schmidt needs use to the core of the Ulster team with one or two from Munster and Connacht.  Is there any Leinster player in his squad worthwhile selecting?


With all respect Pot, those Irish players you have named have been away for quite some time and Ireland have won the 6N without them...

The loss of POC, Henderson and POM will hurt Ireland but there is enough cover there.

Yes I'm well aware Billy.

I was chanelling the cliched summaries from some posters that begin - now that Ireland have lost O'Driscoll and O'Connell, team in transition, etc, etc.

I was going to add in Gibson and McBride as well...
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 24 Jan 2016, 3:31 pm

lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

Ah the old ' on the day' argument. The nearly result haven't done Wales much good in the past and there hasn't been that many retirements.  For Wales it's only Phillips I can think of and he wasn't in the original squad anyway.

On the day didn't every team have a decent/equal chance of doing so? It was a knock out game after all.... A shame that some English aren't too bright.

Dear Mikey I would have expected better of you. I know your opinion of me isn't great but its a silly attack. The only reason I (and many others) actually talk up the Scotland Australia  game is that with a little luck at the end of the game they could have won, and they contributed a great deal to that contest. None of the other 6N teams ever looked remotely like putting one over on their quarter final opponents.

It's still a loss, but it was a good performance.

I love how this selective summary of a good performance is still being churned out. And let's not forget that regardless of whether or not Wales won a game you were always one of the first Englishmen to urine all over it - the token Scottish South African included in that too. Happy losing in the 6 nations my friend, I can't wait for AWJ to teach your boys a lesson.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 24 Jan 2016, 3:48 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I have been saying for a while now, i do not hold out much hope for England in this years 6ns. New coach, new squad, new captain.

Bedford i agree with you Wales are probably the most settled squad this year. But the way the 6ns goes. Just because Wales have the most settled squad does not mean that Wales will win.

France probably in the same camp as England. New coach new squad. And like they say depends on which France team turns up.

Scotland? got the furthest in the RWC. But, in the 6ns they do not have such a good reecord.

Italy? Same old same old i guess.

Did they?

Of course they didn't, but they were the only ones who had, on the day, a decent chance of doing so.

I would hope Scotland will have taken some heart from the 'nearly' result. As for the other teams there has been a RWC hangover in terms of retirements (forced in the case of Lancaster ofc) but otherwise I don't think we can take much from how they played.

Ah the old ' on the day' argument. The nearly result haven't done Wales much good in the past and there hasn't been that many retirements.  For Wales it's only Phillips I can think of and he wasn't in the original squad anyway.

On the day didn't every team have a decent/equal chance of doing so? It was a knock out game after all.... A shame that some English aren't too bright.

Dear Mikey I would have expected better of you. I know your opinion of me isn't great but its a silly attack. The only reason I (and many others) actually talk up the Scotland Australia  game is that with a little luck at the end of the game they could have won, and they contributed a great deal to that contest. None of the other 6N teams ever looked remotely like putting one over on their quarter final opponents.

It's still a loss, but it was a good performance.

I love how this selective summary of a good performance is still being churned out. And let's not forget that regardless of whether or not Wales won a game you were always one of the first Englishmen to urine all over it - the token Scottish South African included in that too. Happy losing in the 6 nations my friend, I can't wait for AWJ to teach your boys a lesson.

Yes like the 'don't trip someone up in front of the referee' one. I am sure we have learned a lot from him already. I hadn't actually mentioned Wales for a while or felt the need to, and I don't understand why me talking up Scotland has got you so upset

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 24 Jan 2016, 4:04 pm

Oh it hasn't and if that's your conclusion to this discussion then it earns you a 'point missed.' Please talk Scotland up as much as you like, their supporters will love you for it Smile.

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Post by TJ Sun 24 Jan 2016, 4:40 pm

Mikey dragon - why so antagonistic? why the continual attacks? Why the constant derailing of threads?
All you will do is get yourself banned and you spoil discussions for the rest of us

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 24 Jan 2016, 8:17 pm

bsando wrote:

On Italy, I noticed their squad seems to have been totally reshuffled. No tommaso Allen and a few other regular faces. Be interesting to see how they get on.


Carlo Canna looks like a good player. Big upheaval in the squad as you say.

There just doesn't seem to be much quality or depth.

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Post by Notch Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:11 pm

This thread is being locked due to the continued fighting on it. If other threads go the same way they will also be locked, and some posters may be temporarily banned until the Six Nations is over.

Best wishes,
v2 rugby mods
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