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AO 2016 - Day 11

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Post by laverfan Wed 27 Jan 2016, 3:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Order of Play - http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/schedule/schedule16.html

Live Scores - http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/index.html

Day 11 Preview - http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/articles/2016-01-27/day_11_preview_can_roger_buck_the_trend.html

My predictions...

Williams in 2, Kerber in 2.

Djokovic in 5.


Last edited by laverfan on Thu 28 Jan 2016, 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Jahu Thu 28 Jan 2016, 2:22 pm

Right, thanks god there are only 5 Djoko fans in the world, including his mom, so not many of them can rejoice on Djoko success Laugh
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Post by HM Murdock Thu 28 Jan 2016, 2:37 pm

Question for the regular Federer watchers: does he often choose to receive first?

I know that Djoko nearly always asks to serve first, so Fed just gave him what he wanted.

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Post by Jahu Thu 28 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm

Fed asks to serve more often too, so even ES commentators said, how about that, when Fed said to receive at the net coin toss.

Guess Fed thought he is 24 and does a favor to Djoko to let him serve first Laugh
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Post by slashermcguirk Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:06 pm

Didn't see it but clearly a great performance from Novak. Peaked at just the right time after some indifferent displays in recent rounds.

Murray is looking dangerous at the moment and should he win that semi he will be so hungry for the title, having come really close so many times!!

I cannot see raonic beating Murray, in fact I think this could be over in straight sets. Murray will eventually get a read on his serves and once he neutralises it, there will only be one winner.

Murray for me only needs to be at 70% to take this one. As for a final vs Novak, djokovic would of course be favourite but Murray is well capable of taking that one if he brings the right blend of attack / defence and mixes up his play to take Novak out of his rhythm

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Post by HM Murdock Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:09 pm

I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:17 pm

HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.
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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:26 pm

barrystar wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
theslosty wrote:Also complete nonsense to suggest Federer is "ruining his legacy" - as a staunch Fed fanatic #18 is proving frustratingly elusive but I do now believe it will arrive soon. Regardless I'm delighted to see him play this well at this stage of his career, I certainly didn't expect it. Of course these aren't his peak years but I do think his recent level is better than it was 3 or 4 years ago.

Anyway the plaudits should all be going to Novak. That's the best match I've ever seen him play and ranks very high in the greatest performances of modern times.

If anything his ability to stay relevant and at or near the top for so long has enhanced his legacy in my mind. I still believe that at his peak the best guys on fast courts were a bit soft, well the fact that he has played against such top competition after his prime and played so well balances that out and takes a lot of the sting out of the argument. My appreciation of him has only grown seeing how well he has competed the last couple of years, the exact opposite of tarnishing.

Quite - weak era explanations are looking a bit flaccid now that we see how superbly a guy well past the usual tennis shelf-life has been competing in recent years.  

But you are right - it's kudos to Djoko right now, I don't see how either Murray or Raonic will trouble him in the final.  The big one this year is RG - I'd like to see him get that, he deserves it.

I don't think it makes weak era arguments flaccid, I don't think in my weak era arguments I ever said that Fed was a creature of the weak era and not one of the or quite possibly the greatest player ever. Fed fans tend to take it personally, but my belief that the rollover bunch was weak was because of their results and not even their results against Fed, their results against everyone else is what made make that conclusion. But it gives credence to the idea that despite a bit of soft competition early on that Fed's standing in the game is secure, which by the way I never doubted at any point in time. The weak era guys were what they were based on their own performance, Fed winning now doesn't make those guys performances any better back in 05,06 or 07

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Post by greengoblin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:28 pm

fed's forehand is laughable now compared to his peak. He's never managed to get the timing right with his new racket. I think some of it is due to slower footwork - notice how he whips more of his forehands in a motion reminiscent of Nadal's.

Novak is playing great, not taking anything away from him. But atm it's like if Fed's main rival was Agassi during his peak.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:37 pm

bogbrush wrote:Hello All!

Just got out of my (excellent) customer session so I've not seen a minute, only just saw the result. Obvious sorry but not surprised, glad he got some respectability with the 3rd set. I won't watch the replay as it'll only wind me up.

Murdock / socal / slasher will be made up, which is good for them! I am wearing black Smile

Just looking back through some posts, the one thing that riles me up too is this "Federer better than ever" carp. It took nothing away from Federer to accept that Agassi wasn't at his peak in the USO final; it takes nothing away from Djokovic to see that this isn't peak Roger. The problem for Fed now is that he HAS to make the rallies shorter, he hasn't the option to be very patient. Why can't some folk grasp that?

I think Federer is not near his best but he is still pretty damn good. I will say that while Federer was better in 04-07 in most ways that today's Federer has improved certain areas in his game and has also received a huge boost from the new racquet which has ameliorated some of the natural degradation that occurs with all people and athletes included. I think some of the talk of Fed being better is because the backhand and backhand drive return are better, but the rest of the game as whole is not despite some technical and tactical improvements.

But I also think those who claimed that Federer was passed it in 09 and 10 and chalked up every single loss of that period to his age maybe should reconsider when viewing how well Fed is playing 5 and six years after. I remember right after 08 which every loss was due to Mono, we then went into every loss is because he is old and Djoko and Murray can't beat peak Federer. Interestingly, in 09 when Federer was supplanted at AO by Nadal and started losing a few matches to Murray and Novak, he was about the same age as Djokovic is now. So can I now officially chalk up every loss Novak has to a younger player as a result of his age?


Thank you for the congratulations, the result was predictable but Federer made things a bit touch and go in third and fourth set and really did increase the pressure. At the end of the third set he did play sparkling stuff and even chased down some tough shots and made some great running passes and winners on the stretch.

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Post by HM Murdock Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:37 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.
My feeling was based on the idea that I don't think a player as good as Andy can lose 5 finals at the same event.

Novak was by all accounts excellent today and is rightly the bookies favourite. But Andy can be a belligerent wotsit at times and I think he's ready for a scrap.

It's only a hunch that I had the start of the tournament, and Novak's performance today has put it under pressure, but I'm not quite ready to abandon it!

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Post by coolpixel Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:38 pm

this is Djokovic's slam even if Murray gets everything together. it was before the start of the toruney. no one can touch him.

having said that I will be delighted to be proven wrong.won't happen though.


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Post by HM Murdock Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:41 pm

A nice quote from Pat Cash which BB will enjoy:

People talk about whether Federer has lost a yard of pace but he's as fast as he's ever been.

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Post by greengoblin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:42 pm

socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

This gave me a good chuckle.


Last edited by temporary21 on Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Oh Dear)

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Post by greengoblin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:44 pm

HM Murdock wrote:A nice quote from Pat Cash which BB will enjoy:

People talk about whether Federer has lost a yard of pace but he's as fast as he's ever been.

The same guy that thought Philippoussis would beat Federer.....

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:45 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.


Shhhhh! Craig don't tell Murdock that. Ever since he has started picking against Novak in every major tournament he has won 4 slams and truckload of masters. Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:48 pm

socal1976 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.


Shhhhh! Craig don't tell Murdock that. Ever since he has started picking against Novak in every major tournament he has won 4 slams and truckload of masters. Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.

Don't worry socal, Andy needs more than all the rabbit's feet in the world and even then I'd still not be confident.
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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:53 pm

greengoblin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

This gave me a good chuckle. After Novak lost to Stan in the French open, your epic butthurt led you to curse Federer left right and center for his 'luck' in winning his sole French open. You were the very definition of a sore loser. Please try for some self awareness ok?

The fans of other players have had years of dealing with these smear attacks and doping allusions every time Fed loses a big match to Rafa or Novak. Give credit to players who are talented enough and hardworking enough to get to the top of the pile. You can't see the difference between what I said and constant baseless character assassination that has taken place in regards to Nadal and now to Djokovic.


Last edited by temporary21 on Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Ok thats a little cleaner)

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Post by bogbrush Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:57 pm

HM Murdock wrote:A nice quote from Pat Cash which BB will enjoy:

People talk about whether Federer has lost a yard of pace but he's as fast as he's ever been.
I'm not surprised, he's as thick as two short planks nailed together, as my Mum says.
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Post by greengoblin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:58 pm

I don't agree with your opinion on this one


Last edited by temporary21 on Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Oh dear oh Dear a complete rewrite)

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Post by HM Murdock Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:00 pm

socal1976 wrote:Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.
laughing laughing
And guess which of last year's slams I said that I thought Novak would win: RG!

It's a good job I'm not a betting man!

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Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.


Shhhhh! Craig don't tell Murdock that. Ever since he has started picking against Novak in every major tournament he has won 4 slams and truckload of masters. Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.

Don't worry socal, Andy needs more than all the rabbit's feet in the world and even then I'd still not be confident.

Frankly CC you really disappoint me .. whatever your concerns give the man some credit.. Im not a bliddy fan but I have more faith in him than you do.. I think he will at least give Novak a run for his money should he make the final.
You are pre-empting the match before he has even walked on court.. at least show your support

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:12 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.
laughing laughing
And guess which of last year's slams I said that I thought Novak would win: RG!

It's a good job I'm not a betting man!

That is great, please Murdock don't pick him in any slam. Your pics are like the angel of death for Novak's slam chances. Hilarious

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:20 pm

To be honest I think it will take a subpar performance for Novak to lose to Andy or Andy playing a blinder. I would have Novak as 2 maybe 2 and half to one favorite. To me Andy hasn't shown me anything different or improved in this tournament after the long off season. He is still having his on court meltdowns and in big matches against the best players you can't afford it. You can't afford to pump the other guys confidence when he sees that you are upset and you can't afford to spend the physical and mental energy of it. Andy takes it too far in having his heart on his sleeve. I mean if Ferrer is going to get you yelling and complaining to your box what will Djokovic do to your psyche over 5 sets on current form? If Andy keeps his cool and serves big he has a good chance, but for those things to happen against Novak over 3 or 4 hours of tennis on this surface is probably unlikely.

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Post by temporary21 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:24 pm

Good ol GG always gets a pop when were busy...

If on Sunday Novak turns into unreal tourney 2004 style gibs, I give Raonic a 50/50 shot, and Murray a 60/40 shot

Otherwise even I cant hype them up much.

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Post by TRuffin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:27 pm

socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

I take a little offense to that Socal. I recognize that you respect and acknowledge Federer's greatness even though you have some type of extreme hate towards his fans, but I don't think this is fair. There are one or two posters on here, not even sure if they are Fed fans but maybe so, spouting off about Djokovic. That's it. The rest of us clearly can see and have no problem with this is Djokovics time and this is his era to dominate. I firmly see him as becoming the greatest player now of his generation and predict he will end up either 2nd best all time to Federer or even surpass him.

You ask the question about nastienss and petulance after a loss, but how did you react last year after the French Open loss to Stan? You came on here and ranted for an hour, not about Stan even, but about what an easy draw Federer had (even though he played and loss to Stan the winner of the whole tourney), Fed fans were losers,etc.. To the point that even your friends on here were telling you to stop because you looked silly. Fed didn't even have anything to do with the final, yet you took all your anger about the loss on him for some bizarre reason. How are you any better after a loss than what you complain about above?

If we are going to lump groups of fans- I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans. The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk. It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars. It never got to vulgar level like that...

Now I do recognize, and I think you really do to with Fed fans, that this is a small vocal group and not the views of the majority. I just bring it up to make the point that any of us can lump fan groups together and criticize them and there may be some truth to it- but the full picture and truth lies somewhere else. You find creeps in any fan base of any player.

To the match- Djoko was simply unplayable for two sets. I've never seen Federer so rushed and shell shocked. You made point in another post about how Fed holds the baseline and Djokos returns and shots were so deep that he's forced to half volley and go for extreme shots. I had mentioned last week that Mary Jo Fernandez who is close to the fed family had let spill that she had a private conversation with Fed at his home where he told here that was exactly the most frustrating thing about playing Djoko and what was so difficult for him. I saw a stat in the second set that Djokos ground strokes were 76mph avg for the match compared to 71mph the rest of the tourney when he had piled up unforced errors. He was hitting with incredible pace and precision with barely any unforced errors- it was amazing he upped his level like that.

The match was heading to Federer's worse defeat since 2002 when he was a youngster- only one match against some guy on clay named Nadal had ever been that bad of a scoreline in the 14 years since. It almost looked to me like one of those moments where a great has to look into the mirror and realize he can't hang anymore. Yet, I was proud as a fan that Federer dug in and really tried everything he could to reel Djoko in. I think any other player on tour and I include Nadal in this would have folded in 3 sets after that display. It was interesting to see Federer trying different tactics and finally making some progress. They both played some high level and miraculous shots in the 3rd set. I think we were headed for a real classic if not for that Roof break. It sucked all the momentum for Fed and drama out of the match after the place erupted at the end of the 3rd. It would have been interesting to see if Fed could feed off that and how Djoko would up his level like he did in Wimbledon 2014. Instead both guys came out flat and patchy and I could see how it would end. There were still some great shots though from both.

All credit to Djokovic though. He whipped a guy who still plays amazing tennis, and I don't see anyone that can match him right now.


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Post by paulcz Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:27 pm

There is such a huge gap between Nole and other players, that Novak looks to be an extraterrestrial player. When Fed said that Novak had played an excellent stuff, then there must be something in it. Now I think that it was the first time Fed said something similar about any player..

If anything changed in Novak's game then we need to mention forehand and once more forehand. The improvement is striking on this wing.

Novak's win was absolutely deserved, he was clearly better player.

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Post by temporary21 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:30 pm

I get the offense from both sides I really do. It comes from years of other guys who aren't here anymore from both sides being really disrespectful.
Lets avoid though lumping any sections of fans together, not all Djoko fans are feverishly nationalistic, not all Fed Fans are elitist snobs that find any old excuse and arrogantly dismiss any other player who deserves respect either.

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Post by Jahu Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:31 pm

Djoko sucks anyway, no one will ever love him and will be remembered as a guy who got big on Fed getting old and Nadals injuries..

Don't know whats all the hate against him, he will be forget the day he quits tennis.

So cool it down people, not worth it Laugh
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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Jan 2016, 4:34 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.


Shhhhh! Craig don't tell Murdock that. Ever since he has started picking against Novak in every major tournament he has won 4 slams and truckload of masters. Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.

Don't worry socal, Andy needs more than all the rabbit's feet in the world and even then I'd still not be confident.

Frankly CC you really disappoint me .. whatever your concerns give the man some credit.. Im not a bliddy fan but I have more faith in him than you do.. I think he will at least give Novak a run for his money should he make the final.
You are pre-empting the match before he has even walked on court.. at least show your support

Of course he'll have my support but that doesn't mean I blindly say I think he'll win when I don't. I have been here before following Murray ie in a slam final V Djokovic and the last time he had success in a slam final was 2013. At that time he was in better shape mentally and it is why I am talking like I am. In their last ten meetings Murray has won once hence my lack of confidence. Don't get me wrong I will be shouting for him (if he gets there) but expectancy is somewhat deflated in this match-up I am afraid.
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Post by paulcz Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:04 pm

TRuffin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

If we are going to lump groups of fans-  I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans.  The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk.   It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars.  It never got to vulgar level like that...    


Hi Truffin, I dont think that your comment on Novak's fans is fair. I think we all remember the period about a couple years ago how much there was offense between Nadal and Federer fans and every second post was deleted then. I read Czech and Slovak tennis forums and must say that vast majority of fanatics recruit from Fed and Nadal camps. It has its reason, both come from western countries with a bombastic promotion and media support. Now their pomp is running away and many these can't handle with. It is foolish to refer to Serbian tennis forum, facebook and such things, Serbia is very small nation with its history, so we can leave their talks. But the gauge is nonbalkanian fans and my experience is quite different as their fandom is much more fair and modest.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:05 pm

But the last thing you should do CC is admit to that.. yes don't you KNOW that when Rafa walks out on court these days I almost waive the white flag if he was playing my grandmother... but hells bells I don't say as much.
Believe .. someone is going to beat Novak sooner or later and Novak will have to have a bad day we know.. but it could be Andy that plays him on that bad day. Very Happy

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:15 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:But the last thing you should do CC is admit to that.. yes don't you  KNOW that when Rafa walks out on court these days I almost waive the white flag if he was playing my grandmother... but hells bells I don't say as much.
Believe .. someone is going to beat Novak sooner or later and Novak will have to have a bad day we know.. but it could be Andy that plays him on that bad day.  Very Happy

I don't do putting false faces on very good. I'll always say things as I see it. I have no doubt Novak will lose a tennis match in the future and he'll have a bad day but I just don't see it being this weekend. I'd be delighted to be wrong and if I am then I'd place this slam win above all his rest for unexpectedness.
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Post by It Must Be Love Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:47 pm

HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!
Who do you idolise more?

Me or Djokovic. Be honest. I think I know.

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Post by temporary21 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:49 pm

Id love Andy to win it. I really would.
But neither my heart or head can justify it unless Novak gets injured

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Post by Haddie-nuff Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:51 pm

picard

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Post by It Must Be Love Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:55 pm

barrystar wrote:This sums up the experience of being a Federer fan over the years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnhmuZ27eQ

No Barry, you support Federer not Grigor Dimitrov.

Federer is playing unbelievable tennis at an age where most players have probably retired. Today he wasn't at his best, I think his first serve went missing, and his tactics seemed slightly odd. I think the pressure he put himself was quite a lot, I was surprised when he chose to receive first.
Overall though Barry, I think you should be very proud of your man. He was outplayed today, but showed great grit in the third set to hang on and prolong the match. A lot of fight at this age, a great effort.

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Post by It Must Be Love Thu 28 Jan 2016, 5:59 pm

To Djokovic fans:

I was in awe at Djokovic's performance today. For me it was leaps and bounds better than he played in the Wimbledon and US Open final last year; his finest match in a Slam for quite some time (in particular the first 2 sets).
The movement was great, but what was also very impressive was the way he was taking control of the rallies. Some amazing passing shot, but for me the point which summed up the match was in the middle of the second set, where he hit an amazing lob from nowhere, then built himself into the point, before firing a backhand down the line.

A WOW performance, and Murray or Raonic are going to have to red-line and hope Djokovic dips to even have a chance.

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Post by TRuffin Thu 28 Jan 2016, 6:03 pm

paulcz wrote:
TRuffin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

If we are going to lump groups of fans-  I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans.  The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk.   It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars.  It never got to vulgar level like that...    


Hi Truffin, I dont think that your comment on Novak's fans is fair. I think we all remember the period about a couple years ago how much there was offense between Nadal and Federer fans and every second post was deleted then. I read Czech and Slovak tennis forums and must say that vast majority of fanatics recruit from Fed and Nadal camps. It has its reason, both come from western countries with a bombastic promotion and media support. Now their pomp is running away and many these can't handle with. It is foolish to refer to Serbian tennis forum, facebook and such things, Serbia is very small nation with its history, so we can leave their talks. But the gauge is nonbalkanian fans and my experience is quite different as their fandom is much more fair and modest.

You missed my greater point- We all have our views and my point was just as Socal can use the postings of a few or minority of Federer fans to lump Federer fans together as nasty and petulant, I can easily do the same with the comments from Djokovic fans that I am seeing all over the place. Both are unfair.

I haven't gone to or referring to comments from Serbian tennis forums. I'm reading comments from the ATP site which people use facebook to reply to, from the Australion open site, from various world wide newspaper sites. When I see the comments sections littered with guys named Dragan or Yosma talking about Federers wife, talking about Federer in graphic Djoko raped him terms- then I can just as easily draw the same conclusions that socal did after seeing a couple fed fans on here say something negative about Djokovic.. Just in your post you make assumptions about Nadal and Federer fans and western fans while saying Balkan fans are much more fair.. we all have our views and bias.

I working in pro sports and am clearly a massive fan of Federer and other athletes. My view is ALL fan bases have bad eggs and fanatics that take it too far. I just think its unrealistic when one says to the other- we are pure and you aren't..... just doesn't work that way.

My apologies if I offended you though. I’m not trying to get into a fan war or have interest in that. I quite like Djokovic and have said loud and clealry I view him as a potential best ever.

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Post by coolpixel Thu 28 Jan 2016, 6:34 pm

well said Truffin. we need more posters like you.

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Post by temporary21 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 6:43 pm

Fair points all Truff, but I would say its not then fair to lump Djoko fans in that third paragraph. Even if you didn't intend it to be taken that way of course that angle strikes a nerve which just reloads their gun to fire back.

Its the internet, theres no chat forum on the internet that isn't full of bad eggs, its inherent in its nature, hence why im always hard on not respecting one another.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 6:45 pm

TRuffin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

I take a little offense to that Socal.  I recognize that you respect and acknowledge Federer's greatness even though you have some type of extreme hate towards his fans, but I don't think this is fair.  There are one or two posters on here, not even sure if they are Fed fans but maybe so, spouting off about Djokovic. That's it. The rest of us clearly can see and have no problem with this is Djokovics time and this is his era to dominate. I firmly see him as becoming the  greatest player now of his generation and predict he will end up either 2nd best all time to Federer or even surpass him.

You ask the question about nastienss and petulance after a loss, but how did you react  last year after the French Open loss to Stan? You came on here and ranted for an hour, not about Stan even, but about what an easy draw Federer had (even though he played and loss to Stan the winner of the whole tourney), Fed fans were losers,etc.. To the point that even your friends on here were telling you to stop because you looked silly.  Fed didn't even have anything to do with the final, yet you took all your anger about the loss on him for some bizarre reason. How are you any better after a loss than what you complain about above?

If we are going to lump groups of fans-  I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans.  The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk.   It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars.  It never got to vulgar level like that...    

Now I do recognize, and I think you really do to with Fed fans, that this is a small vocal group and not the views of the majority. I just bring it up to make the point that any of us can lump fan groups together and criticize them and there may be some truth to it- but the full picture and truth lies somewhere else.   You find creeps in any fan base of any player.

To the match- Djoko was simply unplayable for two sets. I've never seen Federer so rushed and shell shocked.  You made point in another post about how Fed holds the baseline and Djokos returns and shots were so deep that he's forced to half volley and go for extreme shots.   I had mentioned last week that Mary Jo Fernandez who is close to the fed family had let spill that she had a private conversation with Fed at his home where he told here that was exactly the most frustrating thing about playing Djoko and what was so difficult for him.   I saw a stat in the second set that Djokos ground strokes were 76mph avg for the match compared to 71mph the rest of the tourney when he had piled up unforced errors.   He was hitting with incredible pace and precision with barely any unforced errors- it was amazing he upped his level like that.

The match was heading to Federer's worse defeat since 2002 when he was a youngster-  only one match against some guy on clay named Nadal had ever been that bad of a scoreline in the 14 years since. It almost looked to me like one of those moments where a great has to look into the mirror and realize he can't hang anymore.  Yet, I was proud as a fan that Federer dug in and really tried everything he could to reel Djoko in. I think any other player on tour and I include Nadal in this would have folded in 3 sets after that display. It was interesting to see Federer trying different tactics and finally making some progress.   They both played some high level and miraculous shots in the 3rd set.   I think we were headed for a real classic if not for that Roof break.  It sucked all the momentum for Fed and drama out of the match after the place erupted at the end of the 3rd. It would have been interesting to see if Fed could feed off that and how Djoko would up his level like he did in Wimbledon 2014.  Instead both guys came out flat and patchy and I could see how it would end. There were still some great shots though from both.

All credit to Djokovic though.  He whipped a guy who still plays amazing tennis, and I don't see anyone that can match him right now.        

Ruffin they cheer fed on all his match threads so I assume they are fed fans. I post on this site can't really comment on the history of other sites or Djokovic fans on other sites. If it approaches the stuff I seen on this site and on the old 606 which this site sprang out of that has been directed by fed fan mainly towards Nadal. And mark my words, if Novak gets close to 17 we will see a host of venom open up on him.

Again I can not emphasize enough how my post was not directed at you or most of the fed fans on this site. But it is disheartening that after every Djoko or Nadal win at a slam over fed is followed by some with vague doping allegations. This has been going on now nearly a decade with Nadal and more recently with Djoko. You as most, most fed fans are knowledgeable and polite. It is apparent from the very text of my original post re read it carefully.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 6:52 pm

TRuffin wrote:
paulcz wrote:
TRuffin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

If we are going to lump groups of fans-  I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans.  The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk.   It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars.  It never got to vulgar level like that...    


Hi Truffin, I dont think that your comment on Novak's fans is fair. I think we all remember the period about a couple years ago how much there was offense between Nadal and Federer fans and every second post was deleted then. I read Czech and Slovak tennis forums and must say that vast majority of fanatics recruit from Fed and Nadal camps. It has its reason, both come from western countries with a bombastic promotion and media support. Now their pomp is running away and many these can't handle with. It is foolish to refer to Serbian tennis forum, facebook and such things, Serbia is very small nation with its history, so we can leave their talks. But the gauge is nonbalkanian fans and my experience is quite different as their fandom is much more fair and modest.

You missed my greater point- We all have our views and my point was just as Socal can use the postings of a few or minority of Federer fans to lump Federer fans together as nasty and petulant, I can easily do the same with the comments from Djokovic fans that I am seeing all over the place. Both are unfair.

I haven't gone to or referring to comments from Serbian tennis forums. I'm reading comments from the ATP site which people use facebook to reply to, from the Australion open site, from various world wide newspaper sites. When I see the comments sections littered with guys named Dragan or Yosma talking about Federers wife, talking about Federer in graphic Djoko raped him terms- then I can just as easily draw the same conclusions that socal did after seeing a couple fed fans on here say something negative about Djokovic.. Just in your post you make assumptions about Nadal and Federer fans and western fans while saying Balkan fans are much more fair.. we all have our views and bias.

I working in pro sports and am clearly a massive fan of Federer and other athletes. My view is ALL fan bases have bad eggs and fanatics that take it too far. I just think its unrealistic when one says to the other- we are pure and you aren't..... just doesn't work that way.

My apologies if I offended you though. I’m not trying to get into a fan war or have interest in that. I quite like Djokovic and have said loud and clealry I view him as a potential best ever.
Again how can I lump all fed fans together when I state specifically that I am talking about a small minority of people. Why are you passive aggressively attacking me with a criticism that I concede and mention myself? Other than stating point blank that it was a small number of fed fans and I explicitly excluded most fed fans. How else could I have avoided lumping all fed fans together other than saying it myself that I was talking about a small odious minority of self identified fed fans on this site who were making unsubstantiated doping claims. Other than specifically excluding most fed fans who weren't saying those things what else would you have me say.

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Post by paulcz Thu 28 Jan 2016, 7:03 pm

TRuffin wrote:
paulcz wrote:
TRuffin wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Has there ever been fans of another player who get nastier and more petulant than Fed fans when their anointed one loses? If you beat Fed a lot you must be doping, or taking advantage of him because he is old. I mean did Fed feel sorry for Djokovic when Novak was 18 or 19 and Roger was in full pomp? In my history of watching tennis and commenting online I have never seen worse losers than Roger fans, obviously not all of them some of them who are gracious and knowledgeable. But really, I am so tired of post fed grandslam loss followed up by baseless allegations of doping for one of his great rivals. Pretty disrespectful and juvenile behavior.

If we are going to lump groups of fans-  I'll say that I've never seen a more nationalistic and frankly gutter talking group of fans across the internet universe than Djoko fans.  The ATP Site, Twitter, Facebook- every article I have looked at this morning has comments from guys with long ethnic names saying bizarre things like comparing Djoko to deity, talking about his Serbian blood makes him a god, then vulgar things like Federers wife wants to be with Djoko now, Federer was on his knees taking it from Djoko, on and on to the point they drown out any tennis talk.   It's bizarre talk and nothing I've ever seen even at the height of the Fed/Nadal fan wars.  It never got to vulgar level like that...    


Hi Truffin, I dont think that your comment on Novak's fans is fair. I think we all remember the period about a couple years ago how much there was offense between Nadal and Federer fans and every second post was deleted then. I read Czech and Slovak tennis forums and must say that vast majority of fanatics recruit from Fed and Nadal camps. It has its reason, both come from western countries with a bombastic promotion and media support. Now their pomp is running away and many these can't handle with. It is foolish to refer to Serbian tennis forum, facebook and such things, Serbia is very small nation with its history, so we can leave their talks. But the gauge is nonbalkanian fans and my experience is quite different as their fandom is much more fair and modest.

You missed my greater point- We all have our views and my point was just as Socal can use the postings of a few or minority of Federer fans to lump Federer fans together as nasty and petulant, I can easily do the same with the comments from Djokovic fans that I am seeing all over the place. Both are unfair.

I haven't gone to or referring to comments from Serbian tennis forums. I'm reading comments from the ATP site which people use facebook to reply to, from the Australion open site, from various world wide newspaper sites. When I see the comments sections littered with guys named Dragan or Yosma talking about Federers wife, talking about Federer in graphic Djoko raped him terms- then I can just as easily draw the same conclusions that socal did after seeing a couple fed fans on here say something negative about Djokovic.. Just in your post you make assumptions about Nadal and Federer fans and western fans while saying Balkan fans are much more fair.. we all have our views and bias.

I working in pro sports and am clearly a massive fan of Federer and other athletes. My view is ALL fan bases have bad eggs and fanatics that take it too far. I just think its unrealistic when one says to the other- we are pure and you aren't..... just doesn't work that way.

My apologies if I offended you though. I’m not trying to get into a fan war or have interest in that. I quite like Djokovic and have said loud and clealry I view him as a potential best ever.

Just to be precise, I did not say that Balkan fans are much more fair, that was not what I was saying. I just understand that such smaller nations are more nationalistic than others besides their gloomy history. Therefore I wrote it is better to leave them out from our discussion.

To be honest I see much more ackward and stupid posts mostly from Nadal and Fed fans here as well, which lacks game knowledge and wit. Socal's game perceptions and his sarcasm belong to the best as well as your overall posting, so no your apology is needed.


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Post by Guest Thu 28 Jan 2016, 7:24 pm

I know Djokovic isn't the most reverred tennis player. It seems everything he does from the racquet is unspectacular. Not known for eye catching shots. He doesn't carry so much as a swagger. Safe pair of hands.

However, the man is a rubber wall. Not only does the ball come back, but it does and it's a bugger to deal with. It's like playing jenga with him. One false move and he has you. It's like a constrictor that squeezes the life out of its prey. 

Nadal on Clay was a nightmare because of the depth of shot that was like walking the plank. Prod prod and prod till you fall off the edge. Djokovic does this a bit more compactly on the HC. 

Djokovic must go down as the most effective baseliner the game has seen.

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Post by coolpixel Thu 28 Jan 2016, 7:27 pm

If there are some with vague doping allegations from the Federer and nadal side then there are equally some equally crappy on a on the Djokovic side.

Point is on the Internet there is no need to answer all posts. You take what you like and ignore, ignore big time, what you don't.

I have never understood this process of defending or criticising a player , a team, as if one is bosom buddies with them or has some stake in them. As if their success or failure defines who we are in life.



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Post by Josiah Maiestas Thu 28 Jan 2016, 7:33 pm

For him to hit the ball so clean (never be slow to the ball) and never get tired is quite the feat you must say. As you point out lk he has no 'killer' shot because all of his shots are clean and balanced up.

Eventually it has to take it's toll on him and that's when we'll see 'interesting' matches again. Only so much the body can take.
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Post by Born Slippy Thu 28 Jan 2016, 8:27 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:I predicted Murray to win at the start of the tournament and I am sticking with it!

I am gobsmacked. Shocked

Novak will be red hot favourite whoever he plays as he is on a different level to everybody else at the moment. If it is Murray he plays then Andy will need to be absolutely focussed (not seen throughout this tournament), up his consistency level to a new high for this tournament and hope that Novak has sufficient amount of dips in his levels throughout the match then Andy might just might be in with a squeak.


Shhhhh! Craig don't tell Murdock that. Ever since he has started picking against Novak in every major tournament he has won 4 slams and truckload of masters. Murdock is like the reverse Warren Buffet of tennis. Another 2 or 3 years of his pessimistic picks and Novak will be in the mid teens or higher in slam count. Keep your hands off my rabbit's foot Craig.

Don't worry socal, Andy needs more than all the rabbit's feet in the world and even then I'd still not be confident.

Frankly CC you really disappoint me .. whatever your concerns give the man some credit.. Im not a bliddy fan but I have more faith in him than you do.. I think he will at least give Novak a run for his money should he make the final.
You are pre-empting the match before he has even walked on court.. at least show your support

Of course he'll have my support but that doesn't mean I blindly say I think he'll win when I don't. I have been here before following Murray ie in a slam final V Djokovic and the last time he had success in a slam final was 2013. At that time he was in better shape mentally and it is why I am talking like I am. In their last ten meetings Murray has won once hence my lack of confidence. Don't get me wrong I will be shouting for him (if he gets there) but expectancy is somewhat deflated in this match-up I am afraid.

Murray's last slam win was in circumstances where he had missed the previous slam, lost tamely in the final of the one before that and only won one tournament of note (that awful match versus Ferrer in Miami) that year. He'd also lost to Novak three times in a row and was clearly suffering ongoing issues with his back.

This tournament, he's coming off winning the DC, is playing far more consistent tennis, looks uninjured and his personal life probably couldn't be better. He's lost two in a row to Novak - arguably when he had limited focus on those two events.

I'd be happy if he gets to the final and Novak is obviously favourite. However, I don't get the constant negativity on here from Murray fans. I can't see a single reason why you think he was mentally more confident coming into Wim 2013. To me, he's vastly improved now from 2013. The problem is that Novak has got even better.

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Post by Danny_1982 Thu 28 Jan 2016, 9:01 pm

BS

I wouldn't call it negative. Just realistic. Novak is playing a level above everyone right now. Predicting Murray will reach the final isn't exactly a dour prediction, but saying that he will struggle to beat a man he's lost 9 of the last 10 matches to is fairly sensible.

They met in 2 slams last year, and in both Murray went shot for shot with Novak for 3 hours, then faded. This time Novak will be fresher (played a day earlier) and is in arguably better form than either time they played in slams last year.

Murray first has to beat Raonic of course, but if he does he in my opinion has to win both of the first 2 sets. Parity after 2 hours or so will not be enough as Novak is a physical beast who makes even Murray look physically lacking.

And let's remember Novak has just looked utterly imperious in taking apart a red hot Federer! In fact, I'm going to stop talking as every statement seems to show a Murray win is even less likely.

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Post by Born Slippy Thu 28 Jan 2016, 9:44 pm

Danny - I don't disagree with most of that analysis. I would say the impression I get (and I agree it may be proved wrong) is that Murray is a lot fitter now than this time last year - and I actually think he lost last year's final mentally in any event. I also think he's playing better.

I don't have any problem with people thinking Novak will win. It's the comments about Murray not being mentally right or not playing well I'm struggling with. He's done a phenomenal job with his game and, if he makes the final that's a fine achievement. If Novak plays like he did at Wim 13, Murray will win easily. I'd also expect him to beat the slightly nervy and out of sorts Novak who turned up in last year's French and US Open finals. However, I agree beating top form Novak is a step far.

Anyway, hopefully he will beat Raonic at least. That will be a decent result at this event.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Jan 2016, 9:53 pm

Post of the day Danny.

Sometimes us Murray fans can't win. We are wrongly accused of bigging him up or in this case negativity when as Danny rightly says it is realism. Nine defeats out of ten against Novak is definitely not a confidence-booster and neither is the nature of some of those losses. I liken Novak's hold over Andy now in the realms of Rafa's hold over Roger in the head-to-head - frighteningly one-sided. If Andy is to turn that around he has to have a different approach to the match and be mentally tough. I am not saying it is impossible (if he gets there I must add) to win but the stats, form and recent matches point heavily in Novak's favour.
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