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Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach

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Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach Empty Lancaster touted as the possible next British and Irish Lions coach

Post by nlpnlp Fri 29 Jan - 12:41

According to Omnisport "British and Irish Lions chief executive John Feehan has identified former England head coach Stuart Lancaster as a potential candidate to lead the 2017 tour of New Zealand."

I think the view from most England fans would be a resounding no, as England's failure in RWC 2015 has forever tarnished his reputation.  But with the difficulty in appointing a current serving international coach - contractual requirements (Schmidt), allegations of home country bias (Gatland), etc - is appointing an 'available' coach the way forward?  Is Lancaster's reputation with other fans as negative as it is with English fans?

The juggernaut that is now the Lions means that 2017 will be a resounding financial success, but with New Zealand seemingly set to dominate the RWC, is this the best opportunity for the home nations to beat the All Blacks?  Will the likes of Warburton, Sexton, Hogg, et al ever get a better chance to beat them?

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Post by Guest Fri 29 Jan - 12:44

I think those outside England would say a resounding 'yes' to this news! Wales, so we don't lose Gats for a year. Ireland and Scotland, as they don't want 'cement head' hurting their feelings again. If he coaches then some of them won't watch it. Which would be a shame.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 29 Jan - 12:48

It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.

The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.

I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?

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Post by Guest Fri 29 Jan - 13:01

Yep, let's get it done. He gets my vote.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 29 Jan - 13:24

He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.

Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.

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Post by Guest Fri 29 Jan - 13:42

fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.

Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.

Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 29 Jan - 14:03

Griff wrote:
fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.

Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.

Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.

Its a tricky one. He has to give up a year with Wales and we know the problems it caused before but here's the issue.... Lions tours to AUS don't come close to Lions tours elsewhere.

The likely scenario is that the lions will lose 0-3. That's not to say they can't have a fair crack at it but the last time they lost a single test match at home was in 2009... 6.5 years ago. Let alone the challenge of getting 40 near strangers together fighting for positions to gel without impacting morale. Its a challenge yes but its a challenge he'll know deep in his heart that he'll lose.

Its not defeatist to say so. NZ are world champions and even losing McCaw & Carter is not likely to dent their success that much. If the home nations teams can barely keep up at home what chances do they in 18 months time away from home, in a NZ winter after a long season facing fresh players... who happen to be the worlds best?
You can say, ah but that's not a winning attitude and top level players won't think like that. Maybe not but the truth is its like putting Adam Gemili in a footrace with Usain Bolt.. will he compete, sure... will he lose 10 out of 10 races, sure... will Usain look good for all 10 of those races, sure.

Then ask yourself what can go wrong? Can you keep morale high when you're being smashed up? How will it impact his job with Wales and his relationship with his players?
Victory is the only thing that can mitigate such morale issues and given that is highly unlikely its no doubt keeping players from in-fighting will be exceptionally difficult.

We will see England in AUS, Ireland in SA and Wales in NZ this summer. Out of those 9 test matches if we see 3 victories by the home nations I think there is hope and someone like Gatland may take it up. If its 0-9 only the insane, the unemployed, those who have never coached at that level or McGeechan will take it up.

The only issue for Gatland is whether he can see it landing him the ABs job... as that's the one he will want. Can he enhance his career to one day coach NZ themselves? If so, I think he will take it, if not I think he will respectfully decline.

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Post by Guest Fri 29 Jan - 14:20

fa0019 wrote:
Griff wrote:
fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.

Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.

Apart from Gatland, who said it would be very hard to turn down.

Its a tricky one. He has to give up a year with Wales and we know the problems it caused before but here's the issue.... Lions tours to AUS don't come close to Lions tours elsewhere.

The likely scenario is that the lions will lose 0-3. That's not to say they can't have a fair crack at it but the last time they lost a single test match at home was in 2009... 6.5 years ago. Let alone the challenge of getting 40 near strangers together fighting for positions to gel without impacting morale. Its a challenge yes but its a challenge he'll know deep in his heart that he'll lose.

Its not defeatist to say so. NZ are world champions and even losing McCaw & Carter is not likely to dent their success that much. If the home nations teams can barely keep up at home what chances do they in 18 months time away from home, in a NZ winter after a long season facing fresh players... who happen to be the worlds best?
You can say, ah but that's not a winning attitude and top level players won't think like that. Maybe not but the truth is its like putting Adam Gemili in a footrace with Usain Bolt.. will he compete, sure... will he lose 10 out of 10 races, sure... will Usain look good for all 10 of those races, sure.

Then ask yourself what can go wrong? Can you keep morale high when you're being smashed up? How will it impact his job with Wales and his relationship with his players?
Victory is the only thing that can mitigate such morale issues and given that is highly unlikely its no doubt keeping players from in-fighting will be exceptionally difficult.

We will see England in AUS, Ireland in SA and Wales in NZ this summer. Out of those 9 test matches if we see 3 victories by the home nations I think there is hope and someone like Gatland may take it up. If its 0-9 only the insane, the unemployed, those who have never coached at that level or McGeechan will take it up.

The only issue for Gatland is whether he can see it landing him the ABs job... as that's the one he will want. Can he enhance his career to one day coach NZ themselves? If so, I think he will take it, if not I think he will respectfully decline.

Fa, I was only addressing your point that 'frontline coaches are running away from it', which Gatland is not! He's said previously he'd love to do it. He said it's the ultimate challenge (Lions tour to NZ). The WRU have given their blessing so he's obviously chatted about it with them. I'd say he's putting his hand up and volunteering rather than running away.

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Post by Guest Fri 29 Jan - 14:22

Agree with your other points though - a very high % chance of failure and therefore more chance of coming home with reputation in tatters than enhanced.

Plus it's a thankless task. No matter what team you pick - 15 out of 38 or whatever number they take will mean players left out and accusations of bias, hatred, racism (?!), politics, you name it. I reckon they should do away with coaches and let the players run the show. THAT would be entertainment!


Last edited by Griff on Fri 29 Jan - 14:24; edited 1 time in total

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Post by fa0019 Fri 29 Jan - 14:22

probably is the ultimate challenge... only ever been 3 series winning coaches in NZ. Last one was 22 years ago.

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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 29 Jan - 14:24



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzOHq5WbQ8k

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Post by Gwlad Fri 29 Jan - 19:18

lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.

The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.

I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?

Just picard

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Post by Notch Fri 29 Jan - 19:52

He gets my vote
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Post by maestegmafia Fri 29 Jan - 20:01

lostinwales wrote:

I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?

Nick Mallet

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Post by lostinwales Fri 29 Jan - 22:00

Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.

The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ) and are fixable.

I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's ?

Just picard

Got anything positive to say? A well reasoned argument for someone else maybe? Even a name might do...

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Post by The Great Aukster Fri 29 Jan - 23:09

Lancaster would be perfect.

He would be treated as a lightweight by the NZ press and they might just convince the team to be a bit complacent.

He would pick mostly English which would be great as Eddie Jones would be severely hampered and the English media would think they had loads of world class players.

Robshaw would get the Lions monkey off his back.

After the inevitable NZ whitewash everybody would blame him again and Stu is the best equipped for that.

Lancaster would be the inspired choice and potentially hasten the demise of the anachronistic Lions... purrrrfect.

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Post by wrfc1980 Sat 30 Jan - 6:20

Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 30 Jan - 8:27

wrfc1980 wrote:Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.

But when it comes to must win games Lancaster failed every time.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 30 Jan - 8:41

I would prefer Gatland as to me, he is the most cunning coach out there and get the Lion's performing.

I would not be unhappy with Lancaster either. I have always thought he is a very good coach, all went pear shaped in the RWC but I don't pin all the blame on him, I think there were a lot of external influences active in that team set up.

If it's not Gatland, then its Lancaster for me but Cotter may also get looked at...
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Post by True Raven Sat 30 Jan - 8:50

I fail to see if the tour is held in may/june then why a coach has to have a year sabbatical to prepare for it.  Apart from watching games what does the coach actually do all year round.  If Sam Warburton is captain (for example) should he take a year off to prepare himself for it!!!it's needless and will just disrupt a nation


Last edited by True Raven on Sat 30 Jan - 8:51; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mis spelt word)

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 12:22

Ooh goody, I can wait to see
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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 12:23

Ooh goody, I can wait to see Barritt and Burgess for the lions
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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 30 Jan - 13:06

I cannot understand this. Lancaster was ditch by England after the World Cup. with the saying that he failed to take England forward and to (win the rugby world cup on home soil.) Now it is being said that he might be in charge of the BRITISH AND IRISH LIONS. picard


So he failed with ENGLAND ALONE. Now he is given a chance with players from different countrys all in one team. Seems like a very early aprill fools joke.


Simply do not think it will happen.

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 30 Jan - 14:24

eirebilly wrote:I would prefer Gatland as to me, he is the most cunning coach out there and get the Lion's performing.

I would not be unhappy with Lancaster either. I have always thought he is a very good coach, all went pear shaped in the RWC but I don't pin all the blame on him, I think there were a lot of external influences active in that team set up.

If it's not Gatland, then its Lancaster for me but Cotter may also get looked at...

Cotter is a good selection.

I would have liked to have seen Cotter, Schmidt and Gatland involved. I think all three would bring some excellent experience to the team.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 14:47

Lions is going to be O'Shea. You heard it here first Wink
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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 17:52

[quote="wrfc1980"]Lancaster has a better win to loss ratio than GATS has for wales.[/quote

which goes to prove he is even worse as a choice for a tour

He had four 6 nations and a RWC to win something, anything! He won lots of games, more by ration than Gats, and one solitary triple crown and you think he'd be a better choice than Gats who has four 6 Nations championship wins and a Lions win. Sur makes sense to me

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Jan - 17:58

Gatland has 4 6Ns championships?

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 18:00

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gatland has 4 6Ns championships?

This year is in the bag.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Jan - 18:07

Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 18:12

No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.

I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?

Yours Arrogantly

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Post by lostinwales Sat 30 Jan - 18:13

And Gats has that amazing record vs SH teams.

Truth is I don't really mind. I just think that Lancaster isn't a bad shout and at least choosing him isn't going to mess up a team for a year while they find someone to step in in their coach's absence.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 18:18

lostinwales wrote:And Gats has that amazing record vs SH teams.

Truth is I don't really mind. I just think that Lancaster isn't a bad shout and at least choosing him isn't going to mess up a team for a year while they find someone to step in in their coach's absence.

Like winning a Lions tour…you mean that amazing record?

Cos only a fool would refer to the Welsh record down under, knowing that we are debating the best of all the nations going on tour, not Wales, and that they would be lead by the same man who just successfully won a tour down under. Doh


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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Jan - 18:31

Gwlad wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.

I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?

Yours Arrogantly

Gwlad

I thought you were Welsh do you not know!? So from 4 down to 2. Its good anyway so no need to embelish.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 19:02

Not slagging off Gats, but winning vs Deans' era Australia is not very similar to winning against Hansen's All Blacks
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Post by LondonTiger Sat 30 Jan - 19:04

Gatland has coached Wales to 6Ns titles (and Grand slams) in 2008 & 2012.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 19:20

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Right. That would still be 3, if you're arrogantly calling this years as done already.

I am….and please specify the previous 2 wins Gats has in the 6 Nations?

Yours Arrogantly

Gwlad

I thought you were Welsh do you not know!? So from 4 down to 2. Its good anyway so no need to embelish.

Including this year it's 4 Doh

I was being arrogant….you just can't count

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 30 Jan - 19:23

If Gatland has coached Wales to 3 titles - name the years please.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 19:27

LondonTiger wrote:Gatland has coached Wales to 6Ns titles (and Grand slams) in 2008 & 2012.

I can assure you that Gats had every input into 2013. He is head Coach of Wales, has been since 2007, he may have been busy planning you a winning Lions tour but his hands were firmly on the Welsh reins in mind if not body.

But lets not derail the thread 7.5, i know you hate that, lets discuss why Lancaster- possibly the least successful England coach of all time but with a better win ratio than the most successful coach of the 6 Nations teams in post with a winning tour under his belt - should be a better choice than Gats in 2017…..

I can't wait to hear this.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 30 Jan - 20:04

fa0019 wrote:He's got as much chance as the chuckle brothers.

Frontline coaches are running away from it because it will be very difficult to come away with any credibilty maintained/enhanced.
Agree. I would put Geech in charge and take a club coach from each of the Home Nations.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 20:17

Geech is out of touch.

I'd say O'Shea and Baxter should be involved
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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 21:23

Lancaster makes sense. Donald Trump could do Alistair Campbell's spin job with Palin as physio. Sir Clive could come along as the elite performance director since he made such a fist of it in 2005.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Jan - 21:27

So just the 2 years then. O'Shea could be a great call.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 30 Jan - 21:34

ChequeredJersey wrote:Geech is out of touch.

I'd say O'Shea and Baxter should be involved
That would work for me.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 30 Jan - 21:35

If he hasn't left to go to Italy, which is the other likely option, the Lions would be an explanation of where he is leaving us for
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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 21:39

lostinwales wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:It's not a bad idea at all. He's not a pariah. He'd be as good at getting a team to gel as anyone and is free and has got the experience.

The things he got really wrong, (i.e. dealing with the pressure winning tournaments) are probably going to be less of an issue than in a home RWC (less pressure as less expectation of a win in the first place in NZ i.e. defeat is ok if we try) and are fixable.

I know confidence in his abilities isn't exactly on an all time high but how many other current or recent coaches of NH teams actually know what its like to beat the AB's once when they were sick?

Just picard

Got anything positive to say? A well reasoned argument for someone else maybe? Even a name might do...

Fixed for you thumbsup

reasoned argument? try using one yourself; you'd be a better candidate as Lions coach than the guy who just derailed English rugby in its own RWC…is that reason enough for you or is how many games he won a better place to start judging his performance.

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Post by gregortree Sat 30 Jan - 21:40

You can't have an an Englishman as a B&I Lions coach.
You just can't.
The kids will just sulk and cry.

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Post by Gwlad Sat 30 Jan - 21:51

gregortree wrote:You can't have an an Englishman as a B&I Lions coach.
You just can't.
The kids will just sulk and cry.

Yes you can, the caveat being he can't be inept as an international rugby coach.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 30 Jan - 22:05

I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.
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Post by lostinwales Sat 30 Jan - 22:30

bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.

A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know.. Broken Record

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Post by Gwlad Sun 31 Jan - 0:17

lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I guess Lancaster has one thing he can claim that Gatland can't.

A win over the all blacks? Yeah I know.. Broken Record

And not being very good at his job.

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