No prospect of eastern Europe joining in 6 Nations

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 30 Jan 2016, 12:24 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/six-nations-2016-no-prospect-of-eastern-europe-joining-in-best-tournament-a6840196.html#commentsDiv

Way to crush all hope for other nations in Europe. Whats the point in even developing rugby in other European countries?

by Rowanbi Wed 20 Apr 2016, 7:32 am

Can't have one group of Premium Tier Nations risking ranking points by playing their lesser players whilst the other group relax by the pool and have their off season barbies....

Now here's a definition of arguing just for the sake of it warning

Let's face it, innovative thinking absolutely terrifies you Run

by No 7&1/2 Wed 20 Apr 2016, 7:57 am

Yet there's only one guy/girl avoiding questions. Funny.

by SecretFly Wed 20 Apr 2016, 12:36 pm

Rowanbi wrote:Can't have one group of Premium Tier Nations risking ranking points by playing their lesser players whilst the other group relax by the pool and have their off season barbies....

Now here's a definition of arguing just for the sake of it

Let's face it, innovative thinking absolutely terrifies you

Let's be innovative. Let's innovate means and methods that will Share the risk burden out between the big shot sides of the North .. and the South. Why do you always 'run' when that notion is proposed and details sought on the logistics of what that might be?

Be innovative. Think about how the SH might lend a hand here in being nice to the Tier 2 teams..... in a meaningful way.

by Rowanbi Wed 20 Apr 2016, 2:10 pm

Actually, I've already made many suggestions for the other tier 1 nations on other threads. But when I make one involving the actual tier 2 countries we are discussing on this thread, I get silly comments about not addressing the tier 1 nations that I have discussed on other, more relevant threads - which is indeed a definition of arguing just for the sake of it.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 20 Apr 2016, 2:20 pm

And of course ignore anything to difficult to answer.

by SecretFly Wed 20 Apr 2016, 2:27 pm

Nope. Won't work, Rowanbi. All arguments take place in the real world.... and therefore you can't neatly divide them up into separate 'threads' and expect everyone to keep a firm eye on all of those threads to get a rounded view of your opinions.

My summation of your posts - on the two threads I've seen you on - is that 'European' rugby has too high a regard for itself, is too powerful, gets all the best shows and that ways of weakening its grasp of power must be found by World Rugby.......................... ie, not as many World Cups, and much more mandatory inclusion of tier 2 European sides in Tier 1 European contests.............

..... and all the while, the less worked Southern boys get more breaks and take things easy like as they see their Northern rivals be taken down a peg or two with all the extra games demanded for them and massive point-dropping risk games they're obliged to take on. Wink

Nice!

by Rowanbi Wed 20 Apr 2016, 2:31 pm

Pointless drivel

by marty2086 Wed 20 Apr 2016, 2:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nope. Won't work, Rowanbi. All arguments take place in the real world.... and therefore you can't neatly divide them up into separate 'threads' and expect everyone to keep a firm eye on all of those threads to get a rounded view of your opinions.

My summation of your posts - on the two threads I've seen you on - is that 'European' rugby has too high a regard for itself, is too powerful, gets all the best shows and that ways of weakening its grasp of power must be found by World Rugby.......................... ie, not as many World Cups, and much more mandatory inclusion of tier 2 European sides in Tier 1 European contests.............

..... and all the while, the less worked Southern boys get more breaks and take things easy like as they see their Northern rivals be taken down a peg or two with all the extra games demanded for them and massive point-dropping risk games they're obliged to take on.

Nice!

Rowan contradicting himself again?

by aucklandlaurie Wed 20 Apr 2016, 4:43 pm

Rowanbi wrote:Actually, I've already made many suggestions for the other tier 1 nations on other threads. But when I make one involving the actual tier 2 countries we are discussing on this thread, I get silly comments about not addressing the tier 1 nations that I have discussed on other, more relevant threads - which is indeed a definition of arguing just for the sake of it.

Rowan,have you ever considered that you might stimulate more progresssive, innovative discussion if you didnt season your suggestions with so much sarcasm and cynicism?

by Gooseberry Thu 21 Apr 2016, 8:56 am

Rowanbi wrote:Pointless drivel

Replace all of your posts with this and save us some time reading Whistle

by marty2086 Thu 21 Apr 2016, 9:54 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Rowanbi wrote:Pointless drivel

Replace all of your posts with this and save us some time reading

Your the problem here, you are like so against innovation and progress, you're a Neanderthal Whistle

by Gooseberry Thu 21 Apr 2016, 10:04 am

marty2086 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Rowanbi wrote:Pointless drivel
Pointless drivel

Pointless drivel

by SecretFly Thu 21 Apr 2016, 11:43 am

Gooseberry wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Rowanbi wrote:Pointless drivel
Pointless drivel

Pointless drivel

Pathetic.

by Rowanbi Thu 12 May 2016, 12:16 pm

Great news! Does this mean they all get a vote each? Surely it must bring the Eastern Europeans a step closer to regular competition with their 6 Nations counterparts, whatever the format...

World Rugby welcomes Georgia, Romania and USA onto Council http://www.worldrugby.org/news/158700

by No 7&1/2 Thu 12 May 2016, 12:29 pm

And the SH teams.

by marty2086 Thu 12 May 2016, 12:31 pm

So much for it all being a closed shop, shows what some people spouting off on here know

by SecretFly Thu 12 May 2016, 12:34 pm

No it means USA will offer to bring a much bigger market to the scene but in turn will demand many more top quality Internationals to take place on their territory... so the likelihood is that the 6N might will now migrate to the good ol USA for a season or two....and the USA will also demand, lobby and pay for 14 votes on the council. Wink

Bye bye any chance of Georgia getting to the 6N. It'll be Scotland and Italy dropped to let Canada and USA in. A Bright New Dawn awakens. Scotland, Italy and Georgia will be forced onto the lineup of the Southern Championship

by SecretFly Thu 12 May 2016, 12:36 pm

... it also of course means there will now be pom pom girls dancing before every International game.... that's the bonus.

by Rowanbi Thu 12 May 2016, 12:37 pm

Not sure how you came to all those conclusions. So do the new trio of nations actually get a seat on the council - with a totally independent vote? I assume that's what this means. Argentina & Italy are apparently getting another seat/vote each too Yahoo

Bye bye overwhelming Home Unions/France/SANZAR dominance, I'd say...

by SecretFly Thu 12 May 2016, 12:41 pm

Rowanbi wrote:Not sure how you came to all those conclusions. So do the new trio of nations actually get a seat on the council - with a totally independent vote? I assume that's what this means. Argentina & Italy are apparently getting another seat/vote each too

Bye bye overwhelming Home Unions/France/SANZAR dominance, I'd say...

Correct. Hello dominance of Anglo/USA! Yahoo

Oh you'll love the New World Order Rowanbi! Exciting times ahead.

by marty2086 Thu 12 May 2016, 12:45 pm

Rowanbi wrote:Not sure how you came to all those conclusions. So do the new trio of nations actually get a seat on the council - with a totally independent vote? I assume that's what this means. Argentina & Italy are apparently getting another seat/vote each too

Bye bye overwhelming Home Unions/France/SANZAR dominance, I'd say...

How do you come to that conclusion?

Why would Argentina and Italy vote to allow others to take a share of what they are getting? Headscratch

You think they are going to be generous and help out the little guy?

by Rowanbi Thu 12 May 2016, 11:58 pm

Why would Argentina and Italy vote to allow others to take a share of what they are getting? Headscratch

You think they are going to be generous and help out the little guy?

Italy, no. Argentina, possibly. They were the driving force behind setting up the 6 Nations, which seems almost tailor-made to helping bring Brazil & Chile up to speed.

But with Argentina and Italy both getting an extra seat on the board, Pichot in at VC, and Georgia & Romania getting a vote each, that means a total of 32 votes, I believe, of which 11 will be held by Home Unions and French delegates (including Beaumont), and 6 by the SANZAR trio, meaning 17 in total for the 8 foundation nations, or a collective 53% of the vote. Previously they'd had 64%.

Anyway, the Guardian puts a positive spin on it and suggests it will indeed help Georgia and Romania in their quest to join the 6 Nations:

he move enhances the prospects of Georgia and Romania joining the Six Nations, a move that the Rugby Football Union – looking for a new chairman to replace the departing Beaumont – has opposed, along with the other five members. Lapasset’s parting gift as chairman makes it harder to keep the door closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/11/bill-beaumont-world-rugby-chairman-georgia-romania-six-nations-expansion

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 8:23 am

Interesting as the comments on a global season, compromise etc seem to be acknowledging too much rugby at present.

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 10:32 am

Rowanbi wrote:Why would Argentina and Italy vote to allow others to take a share of what they are getting? Headscratch

You think they are going to be generous and help out the little guy?

Italy, no. Argentina, possibly. They were the driving force behind setting up the 6 Nations, which seems almost tailor-made to helping bring Brazil & Chile up to speed.

But with Argentina and Italy both getting an extra seat on the board, Pichot in at VC, and Georgia & Romania getting a vote each, that means a total of 32 votes, I believe, of which 11 will be held by Home Unions and French delegates (including Beaumont), and 6 by the SANZAR trio, meaning 17 in total for the 8 foundation nations, or a collective 53% of the vote. Previously they'd had 64%.

Anyway, the Guardian puts a positive spin on it and suggests it will indeed help Georgia and Romania in their quest to join the 6 Nations:

he move enhances the prospects of Georgia and Romania joining the Six Nations, a move that the Rugby Football Union – looking for a new chairman to replace the departing Beaumont – has opposed, along with the other five members. Lapasset’s parting gift as chairman makes it harder to keep the door closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/11/bill-beaumont-world-rugby-chairman-georgia-romania-six-nations-expansion

What 6Ns did Argentina set up?

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 12:10 pm

What 6Ns did Argentina set up?

The Americas.' Is there any other?

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 12:28 pm

Rowanbi wrote:What 6Ns did Argentina set up?

The Americas.' Is there any other?

There isn't one in S. America

Theres the S. American Championship going back to decades and the new one set up isn't much different to the Tbilisi Cup in what it produces

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 12:37 pm

Rowanbi wrote:What 6Ns did Argentina set up?

The Americas.' Is there any other?

You mean the Americas Rugby Championship? Not called the 6 Nations other than informally. And you really haven't heard of the actual 6 Nations? And isn't the team in the Championship actually Argentina XV rather than Argentina? You said on another thread that this wouldn't actually help teams as they wouldn't take anything other than a full test side seriously; you changed your mind?

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 12:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Rowanbi wrote:What 6Ns did Argentina set up?

The Americas.' Is there any other?

You mean the Americas Rugby Championship? Not called the 6 Nations other than informally. And you really haven't heard of the actual 6 Nations? And isn't the team in the Championship actually Argentina XV rather than Argentina? You said on another thread that this wouldn't actually help teams as they wouldn't take anything other than a full test side seriously; you changed your mind?

Its what he regularly does then insists he hasn't changed his POV

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 12:55 pm

Was it you who knew him from other sites? Is he always like this? Still won't acknowledge his error after saying I was supporting an all white SA team.

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 1:17 pm

Not me, just basing it on this thread where he seems to flip flop, lack the understanding and implication of his suggestions and make claims that aren't true

by SecretFly Fri 13 May 2016, 1:24 pm

Rowanbi is a South African version of Chunky................. or is that too harsh on PhilBB? Wink

Ah it's too harsh on all of him I suppose. Just guys who have solid opinions and won't tolerate anyone trying to chip away at them.

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 1:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:Rowanbi is a South African version of Chunky................. or is that too harsh on PhilBB?

Ah it's too harsh on all of him I suppose. Just guys who have solid opinions and won't tolerate anyone trying to chip away at them.

Solid? Really?

by SecretFly Fri 13 May 2016, 1:30 pm

Don't you start, marty!

Solid opinions = opinions they solidly take and are prepared to use any tactic to avoid changing them = me. Wink

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 1:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:Don't you start, marty!

Solid opinions = opinions they solidly take and are prepared to use any tactic to avoid changing them = me.

I was going to say at least they aren't as bad as you but at least you've admitted it, its the first step for change

by SecretFly Fri 13 May 2016, 1:33 pm

Who said I'll ever change? I know me too well. I'm happy with the guy.

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 1:50 pm

No, I just suggested that Argentina showed some inclination to help other nations, as they were the driving force behind setting up the Americas 6 Nations.

No need to get all vile and nasty over that comment, is there, chaps? Rolling Eyes

by SecretFly Fri 13 May 2016, 1:53 pm

I'm defending you...yet again Rowanbi.

That's always a tough exercise and a guy gets cut Wink

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 1:57 pm

But you said help such as that was worthless as it had to be a test team; you changed your mind? It's not the 6 nations come on, use it's proper name. And have you really not heard of the 6 Ns?

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:01 pm

Rowanbi wrote:No, I just suggested that Argentina showed some inclination to help other nations, as they were the driving force behind setting up the Americas 6 Nations.

No need to get all vile and nasty over that comment, is there, chaps?

Could you tell us what this championship is as you seem to have made it up

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 2:17 pm

Could you tell us what this championship is as you seem to have made it up

In that case, I must write for Wiki laughing

Often informally called the Americas' Six Nations

[1] The Americas Rugby Championship, often informally called the Americas' Six Nations, will be an annual international rugby competition between six North and South American nations: Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, United States and Uruguay.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas_Rugby_Cup

GOTCHA !! RedWine

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:19 pm

So you were wrong then Rowanbi, and presumably you think it worthless anyway?

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 2:21 pm

What part of this suggested to you I was wrong?

Rowanbi wrote:Could you tell us what this championship is as you seem to have made it up

In that case, I must write for Wiki

Often informally called the Americas' Six Nations

[1] The Americas Rugby Championship, often informally called the Americas' Six Nations, will be an annual international rugby competition between six North and South American nations: Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, United States and Uruguay.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas_Rugby_Cup

GOTCHA !!

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:21 pm

Really? Considering you said the S. American version, that's for South and North America picard

If that's beneficial to those nations why aren't similar tournaments in Europe beneficial to the lower tier European nations?

by SecretFly Fri 13 May 2016, 2:24 pm

marty2086 wrote:

If that's beneficial to those nations why aren't similar tournaments in Europe beneficial to the lower tier European nations?

Now that IS a good point................

over to you Rowanbi..............

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

If that's beneficial to those nations why aren't similar tournaments in Europe beneficial to the lower tier European nations?

Now that IS a good point................

over to you Rowanbi..............

I bet Phil would argue himself blue otherwise Rolling Eyes

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 2:31 pm

If that's beneficial to those nations why aren't similar tournaments in Europe beneficial to the lower tier European nations?

They need to be playing at a higher level in order to improve. Brazil & Chile now get to play Argentina and the North Americans annally. ENC teams are stuck with their peers.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:31 pm

Well you were wrong to say the Americas Six Nations. What other is there?

Well the other one would be the one that is actually called the 6 Nations rather than something else altogether! And onto the question you seem to be ignoring:isn't the Americas Rugby Championship worthless due to it being Argentina XV?

And also where's my apology for trying to say I favour an all white SA?

by Rowanbi Fri 13 May 2016, 2:33 pm

So you can't take a tongue-in-cheek quip then? My my, aren't we precious Rolling Eyes

by marty2086 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:40 pm

Rowanbi wrote:If that's beneficial to those nations why aren't similar tournaments in Europe beneficial to the lower tier European nations?

They need to be playing at a higher level in order to improve. Brazil & Chile now get to play Argentina and the North Americans annally. ENC teams are stuck with their peers.

You do realise there has been an annual South American Championship for about 20 years and it was every other year prior to that?

You do realise that its not the Argentine test team that play in the '6 Nations' just an Argentine 15 just like the Tier 1 teams do with the Tblisi and Nations Cup so why does this tournament help the S. American teams but not their European counterparts?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 13 May 2016, 2:42 pm

So you can't answer the question and have to side step?

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