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Six Nations 2016 Wales vs Scotland

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Scotland

4:50pm - Saturday the 13th of February 2016

Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Teams

Wales
15 Liam Williams
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Tom James
10 Dan Biggar
9 Gareth Davies
1 Rob Evans
2 Scott Baldwin
3 Samson Lee
4 Luke Charteris
5 Alun Wyn Jones
6 Sam Warburton (c)
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Taulupe Faletau

Reps: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe

Scotland

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Dunc Taylor
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
09. Greig Laidlaw (c)

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Willem Nel
04. Richie Gray
05. Jonny Gray
06. John Barclay
07. John Hardie
08. David Denton

Reps: McInally, Reid, Fagerson, Swinson, Cowan, Hidalgo-Clyne, Weir, Lamont



Referee is unfortunately George Clancy (IRFU) which ruins the game generally.

Touch judges: John Lacey (IRFU) & Federico Anselmi (UAR)

TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)


Last edited by maestegmafia on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 8:54 am; edited 4 times in total

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 08 Feb 2016, 5:21 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not a fan of Tom James, but he barely saw the ball, so it would be harsh to drop him.

Great tackle on Trimble after Sexton went through the gap in midfield

Why are you telling me that? I'm saying it would be harsh to drop him!

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Post by exile jack Mon 08 Feb 2016, 5:29 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I also don't get the Priestland bashing. He did very well on Sunday.

Our only consolation is this is a really quick turnaorund for Wales. That match on Sunday looked brutal.

The debate over Priestland has been going on since 2011 and boils down to whether or not he is an international standard 10.I don't think he is now.He didn't lose us the game but he didn't win it either.If you took all the teams in the Pro12,the Aviva and the Top14 and ranked all their 10's i'm not sure RP makes the top 30.Perhaps RP has become our Dan Parks where adequate performance is considered acceptable.If there is no alternative to RP when Dan's out that's worrying for 2 reasons:we're off to NZ in the summer,and RP will be nearly 33 at the next WC.The contrast at the game between RP and Jonny S wasn't favourable to RP.My worry for Saturday is that Finn R is more rather than less likely than RP to turn in a match deciding performance.

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 08 Feb 2016, 5:43 pm

People seem to be alternating between overhyping Priestland's performance and ridiculing it. Why do people jump to one extreme or the other? In reality he did ok. Not fantastic, not terrible, just ok. He took his place kicks well. Not sure how the backs would have fared in comparison had Biggar not been injured. The drop goals were the only outright bad aspect of Priestland's game. He just never looked composed enough in those situations.

I'm not a fan of Priestland and I understand the common apprehension at having him as backup. But he filled a big pair of shoes better than many expected. Nobody is saying he's now first choice or that he's consistent. But that's not to say Priestland in 'ok' form is a disastrous enforced replacement for Biggar, nor that Wales will find it impossible to beat Scotland if they have to start Priestland.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 08 Feb 2016, 5:52 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:People seem to be alternating between overhyping Priestland's performance and ridiculing it. Why do people jump to one extreme or the other?

I haven't seen anyone saying Priestland had a stormer. I've seen plenty of people criticise his performance, or give him the most grudging of compliments for it.

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Post by Shifty Mon 08 Feb 2016, 6:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Shifty wrote:Basically if we see Wales getting over the gain line often while attacking Scotland will have a really hard day.

That is really astute.

It's a fact if you want to beat Wales their not allowed to go forward. Wales often go forward at a rate of knots against Scotland thankfully.
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Post by SecretFly Mon 08 Feb 2016, 6:11 pm

If Biggar is out, Priestland will see it as his first real chance to reclaim some reputation. A different player to Biggar but if in the zone certainly has his own ways of making a team go forward.....

Scotland therefore have to make him unsure of himself from the get go and keep him in that mood. When Priestland is questioning his own ability during a game, that's when the schidt can hit the fan for Wales. He mentally implodes easier than Biggar. So that's the target for Scotland. Shake his resolve and keep shaking it for 80.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 6:14 pm

True Raven wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:The problem being that a game in which he has a low error count is considered a good game. That just goes to show what people expect of him, and he never fails to disappoint on that front. He lacks composure, still makes errors, and missed two drop-goals from good field positions - if I was a forward I'd be fuming with that. I don't think he's a competent international and firmly believe that if he starts then Scotland gain an advantage.

Umm, I'm not really sure what major rehsuffles they were? Admittedly the team was rusty but if you're alluding to what I think you are then that's quite the exaggeration. And who wasn't setting the world alight? You couldn't possibly be talking about your favourite open-side now, could you...


RE-SHUFFLES - Anscombe injured and Williams brought in the right before the game. Then, Dan Biggar injured in the first Quarter and a change of Flyhalf...!

Regarding Priestland, actually think he gets the backline moving better than Biggar, he has a better pass. I don't think he let us down. Quiet the opposite, kept us in the game well. One silly kick by a reserve third choice scrum half cost us a win in a nervy tough game against a decent team.


Yeah, exaggerating then. Nothing major about it as the players that started have become regulars, albeit some of them rusty through lack of game time.

He let us down with two missed drop goals. The Scrum V panel couldn't bring themselves to say it was two, which is sad. I don't actually think that was a penalty and was under the impression Garces was playing advantage to us for an Irish knock-on. It's strange that you state Williams cost us the game and think RP didn't with those two missed drop goals.

It was very windy. You are less likely to get a drop goal than a place kick in a gusty breeze.


It's just excuses, the technique on both drop goal attempts were extremely poor, he snatched at both.  And if it was too blustery as you suggested then why didn't he demand his pack keep the ball in hand

Very gusty.

The difference between a drop kick and a place kick is that with a place kick you can wait for a lull in the wind, when you take a drop kick you do not have the luxury of time, you get the ball from a long pass and you have a second or two if you are lucky.


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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 6:18 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:People seem to be alternating between overhyping Priestland's performance and ridiculing it. Why do people jump to one extreme or the other? In reality he did ok. Not fantastic, not terrible, just ok. He took his place kicks well. Not sure how the backs would have fared in comparison had Biggar not been injured. The drop goals were the only outright bad aspect of Priestland's game. He just never looked composed enough in those situations.

I'm not a fan of Priestland and I understand the common apprehension at having him as backup. But he filled a big pair of shoes better than many expected. Nobody is saying he's now first choice or that he's consistent. But that's not to say Priestland in 'ok' form is a disastrous enforced replacement for Biggar, nor that Wales will find it impossible to beat Scotland if they have to start Priestland.

Wouldn't say anyone is overhyping anything, there was nothing in that performance to overhype on either team.

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 08 Feb 2016, 7:32 pm

maesteg, I'm personally not convinced the wind alone caused Priestland to miss. There may have been gusts as you say but not strong enough to cause his drop goal attempts to go as wide as they did. His overall readiness and execution was poor in that department. Like I said his place kicking was decent but the drop goals were clearly beyond his limits at that level of intensity.

For that matter, all the weekend games featured poor drop goal execution to some extent.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 8:02 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:maesteg, I'm personally not convinced the wind alone caused Priestland to miss. There may have been gusts as you say but not strong enough to cause his drop goal attempts to go as wide as they did. His overall readiness and execution was poor in that department. Like I said his place kicking was decent but the drop goals were clearly beyond his limits at that level of intensity.

For that matter, all the weekend games featured poor drop goal execution to some extent.

True UN mitigating factors can not be excused but they are a factor, psychological and actual regarding pressure drop goals.

But missing those drop goals was no more an element I the result than giving away a penalty when we had the lead, misusing an overlap or the coach keeping an injured Dan Biggar on to takes shot at goal when he was injured.

To be honest the teams were evenly matched and a draw is a disappointment but doesn't feel as much like "kissing your sister" in hindsight.

Onwards and hopefully upwards we have three games at home still to go I don't feel like we are in a bad position just yet.

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 08 Feb 2016, 8:33 pm

Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 8:46 pm

Code:


Knowsit17 wrote:Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

I don't disagree with you mate.

I hope biggars injury is not so bad. But I also hope that if we are to use Priestland that he proves a lot people wrong. We have seen him at his best, it's just we haven't seen that for a long time now.

I guess we will know more tomorrow. Or is the team out Wednesday???

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Post by Seagultaf Mon 08 Feb 2016, 8:49 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

A drop goal under pressure from defenders flying up is an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve, blaming the loss on Priestlands missed drops is like blaming the loss on Roberts or North for not cutting through the Irish defence and scoring under the posts! Don't forget there are more try's scored By outfield backs than drop goals scored at international rugby.

Give the lad credit for playing well under difficult circumstances!

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Post by Seagultaf Mon 08 Feb 2016, 8:56 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

A drop goal under pressure from defenders flying up is an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve, blaming the loss on Priestlands missed drops is like blaming the loss on Roberts or North for not cutting through the Irish defence and scoring under the posts! Don't forget there are more try's scored By outfield backs than drop goals scored at international rugby.

Give the lad credit for playing well under difficult circumstances!

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Post by True Raven Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:02 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

A drop goal under pressure from defenders flying up is an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve, blaming the loss on Priestlands missed drops is like blaming the loss on Roberts or North for not cutting through the Irish defence and scoring under the posts! Don't forget there are more try's scored By outfield backs than drop goals scored at international rugby.

Give the lad credit for playing well under difficult circumstances!

No its not. As I stated yesterday, Jonny Wilkinson used to practice drop goals as much as place kicking because he felt it was an easy three points when his team built up pressure rather than waiting for the opposition to make a mistake. Against Clermont, Sam Davies slotted a drop goal to gain 3 points, for a 10 with composure its not that difficult as it should be second nature. However seagultaf id agree with your example if Roberts butchered a two on one as he should be able to use his basic skills to put his teammate through, that never happened though. I don't think priestland is a bad player nor do I think he had a dreadful game, I just don't think he should be our number 10 for wales and he hasn't the mentality for this level

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:11 pm

True Raven wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Wasn't trying to argue that Priestland alone prevented us from winning. Ultimately we fell short of the mark in several departments and the team as a whole takes responsibility. But the drop goals that Priestland missed were one of several elements which could have made all the difference had they been taken better. Some would argue a fit Biggar would have scored at least one of them, which is hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

A drop goal under pressure from defenders flying up is an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve, blaming the loss on Priestlands missed drops is like blaming the loss on Roberts or North for not cutting through the Irish defence and scoring under the posts! Don't forget there are more try's scored By outfield backs than drop goals scored at international rugby.

Give the lad credit for playing well under difficult circumstances!

No its not.  As I stated yesterday, Jonny Wilkinson used to practice drop goals as much as place kicking because he felt it was an easy three points when his team built up pressure rather than waiting for the opposition to make a mistake.  Against Clermont, Sam Davies slotted a drop goal to gain 3 points, for a 10 with composure its not that difficult as it should be second nature.  However seagultaf id agree with your example if Roberts butchered a two on one as he should be able to use his basic skills to put his teammate through, that never happened though.  I don't think priestland is a bad player nor do I think he had a dreadful game, I just don't think he should be our number 10 for wales and he hasn't the mentality for this level

Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.


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Post by gavstar Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:17 pm

if biggar had missed those TWO drop kicks you wouldn't have heard the end of it on scrum 5. what does jiffy usually say' you've got to nail those at this level'why the golden soft glove treatment for rp ? the presenter of that programme will always edge conversation towards someone else playing a better or different game than biggar, also jiffy is always on about hook or priestland.....  pathetic,  just because biggar has proved the pundits wrong.  every opportunity is taken to suggest wales play someone who can give us 'something different' well rp had his chance,  this nonsense about getting the backs moving is rubbish ...unless you count sideways crabbing in to touch .    kicking out of hand was not targeted to us gaining ground and moving on to create ; safety kicking would be the kindest label you could put on rp s performance.   I ve said many times jonny Wilkinson as a wales 10 would never have pleased jiffy or gareth Edwards , or welsh supporters living on memories of a different era, or tv presenters who say ' sam davies chosen over biggar to start at the ospreys ......could we be seeing a change in 10  coming to the welsh team'  pathetic is the only word that sums up this blatant denial that biggar is the best 10 we've had for some time........and they all said he wouldn't do it.........well done dan . awesome.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:18 pm

gavstar wrote:if biggar had missed those TWO drop kicks you wouldn't have heard the end of it on scrum 5. what does jiffy usually say' you've got to nail those at this level'why the golden soft glove treatment for rp ? the presenter of that programme will always edge conversation towards someone else playing a better or different game than biggar, also jiffy is always on about hook or priestland.....  pathetic,  just because biggar has proved the pundits wrong.  every opportunity is taken to suggest wales play someone who can give us 'something different' well rp had his chance,  this nonsense about getting the backs moving is rubbish ...unless you count sideways crabbing in to touch .    kicking out of hand was not targeted to us gaining ground and moving on to create ; safety kicking would be the kindest label you could put on rp s performance.   I ve said many times jonny Wilkinson as a wales 10 would never have pleased jiffy or gareth Edwards , or welsh supporters living on memories of a different era, or tv presenters who say ' sam davies chosen over biggar to start at the ospreys ......could we be seeing a change in 10  coming to the welsh team'  pathetic is the only word that sums up this blatant denial that biggar is the best 10 we've had for some time........and they all said he wouldn't do it.........well done dan . awesome.

Agreed but probably because he was a bench player not a starter?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:27 pm

Shifty wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Shifty wrote:Basically if we see Wales getting over the gain line often while attacking Scotland will have a really hard day.

That is really astute.

It's a fact if you want to beat Wales their not allowed to go forward.  Wales often go forward at a rate of knots against Scotland thankfully.  

Gosh, I think you are right. I'll let Vern know.

"They're" rather than "their" I believe.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 08 Feb 2016, 9:36 pm

Ffs people are judging RP on the last 5 years in which for the most part he has been pure shoite. He does not have the composure at this level - Yes he's bound to do ok on occasion as he did when he came on in the RWC but his head is shot. He announced his semiretirement a few months ago! What does that say about his state of mind. He will always do OK until that flaw appears and trust me it will. Gatland loves him so were fooked for now but he will drop us in it, he is nervous and ponderous with ball in hand and Just resorts to aimless kicking. Im happy for people to differ but I will come after you when he drops us in the Shoite again thumbsup

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 08 Feb 2016, 10:34 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Ffs people are judging RP on the last 5 years in which for the most part he has been pure shoite. He does not have the composure at this level - Yes he's bound to do ok on occasion as he did when he came on in the RWC but his head is shot. He announced his semiretirement a few months ago! What does that say about his state of mind. He will always do OK until that flaw appears and trust me it will. Gatland loves him so were fooked for now but he will drop us in it, he is nervous and ponderous with ball in hand and Just resorts to aimless kicking. Im happy for people to differ but I will come after you when he drops us in the Shoite again thumbsup

He didn't apparently.

Mike Ford announced it, seemingly not Priestland.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 08 Feb 2016, 10:36 pm

True Raven wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:The problem being that a game in which he has a low error count is considered a good game. That just goes to show what people expect of him, and he never fails to disappoint on that front. He lacks composure, still makes errors, and missed two drop-goals from good field positions - if I was a forward I'd be fuming with that. I don't think he's a competent international and firmly believe that if he starts then Scotland gain an advantage.

Umm, I'm not really sure what major rehsuffles they were? Admittedly the team was rusty but if you're alluding to what I think you are then that's quite the exaggeration. And who wasn't setting the world alight? You couldn't possibly be talking about your favourite open-side now, could you...


RE-SHUFFLES - Anscombe injured and Williams brought in the right before the game. Then, Dan Biggar injured in the first Quarter and a change of Flyhalf...!

Regarding Priestland, actually think he gets the backline moving better than Biggar, he has a better pass. I don't think he let us down. Quiet the opposite, kept us in the game well. One silly kick by a reserve third choice scrum half cost us a win in a nervy tough game against a decent team.


Yeah, exaggerating then. Nothing major about it as the players that started have become regulars, albeit some of them rusty through lack of game time.

He let us down with two missed drop goals. The Scrum V panel couldn't bring themselves to say it was two, which is sad. I don't actually think that was a penalty and was under the impression Garces was playing advantage to us for an Irish knock-on. It's strange that you state Williams cost us the game and think RP didn't with those two missed drop goals.

It was very windy. You are less likely to get a drop goal than a place kick in a gusty breeze.


It's just excuses, the technique on both drop goal attempts were extremely poor, he snatched at both.  And if it was too blustery as you suggested then why didn't he demand his pack keep the ball in hand

Yes TR, I agree. I said on the match thread, it was also rushed as there was still time to play even if he did kick the second DG.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 08 Feb 2016, 10:43 pm

Some of these comments on here making excuses for RP are pathetic. It's this and the preferential treatment he gets from the Scrum V panel, etc that really grinds my gears. When I and others point out the truth we then get accused of Priestland bashing, and some even go as far to say that our comments on the internet are the reason for his bad form! We have to bloody read and hear about this every time he sets foot onto the field. I'll never understand some of you talking him up so I'll just continue to assume that between you and the TV set there is a rather large rock that obscures your view.

Ruby, I think that's exactly what people are doing. I'm also glad I'm not the only one speaking up about it. Gatland does seem to have a soft spot for him (and some others of course, including his understudy coaches!) as does Jiffy and the scrum V team. Harries mentioned that it was a bad weekend for drop-goal attempts and said the kickers each missed one shot at goal, when RP actually missed two in good field positions at vital moments in the game - why couldn't they just bring themselves to speak the truth?

I'm looking forward to this match but I'll still remain overly-concerned if RP starts because I know we'll be leaving too many points out there.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 08 Feb 2016, 10:48 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Blueschief wrote:Think we missed Lydiate's tackling yesterday, how much difference that would have made I have no idea. Both teams were defensively resolute.

If Biggar is out who do we play? Priestland was ok, didn't do much wrong, didn't do much good either, we can call that job done from him. Anscombe? Much as I like his passing game I'm on the fence wether he's good enough for an International 10, but then, he can't do any worse than Priest, who was ok.

We could call up Patchell, he's too flaky and Hook-like for me. Sam Davies? Nah he's not ready if he'll ever be.

Bit of a conundrum there.
I don't honk the will look past Anscombe or Priestland for next weekend I would imagine that injury to Anscombe as well makes that decision easy. Though I am guessing that they will add a player to the squad this week that covers and it will be Patchell ahead of Hook or Davies

Next call would be whether we do need to sure up defence around the rucks, add Lydiate, attack more expansively keep the same or a bit of both, drop Warburton?

If you drop Warburton then we start getting less turnovers. I don't recall Tipuric making any turnovers on sunday? It's the most vital job for an open-side.

Tipuric made three turnovers

Interesting to read that because I thought he was fairly anonymous, and if he made that many turnovers then the Scrum V panel would have been creaming in their pants over it as per usual. May I ask where you got these stats? I'm interested in taking a look.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 08 Feb 2016, 10:49 pm

He'll have a decent game v Scotland which will put us further in the Shoite thumbsup

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Post by Cowshot Mon 08 Feb 2016, 11:19 pm

Rhys Priestland has played about 2 games all season.

I'm amazed he did as well as he did and think he deserves a lot of credit.

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Post by exile jack Tue 09 Feb 2016, 6:14 am

Cowshot wrote:Rhys Priestland has played about 2 games all season.

I'm amazed he did as well as he did and think he deserves a lot of credit.

RP's player profile at Bath says differently but in any event the Welsh management team in January expressed concern about his lack of game time.He did play the full 80 minutes in the recent Bath v Saracens game but his kicking led to the winning Saracens try so his 'form' and apparent lack of game time begs the question why was he picked for the matchday 23.Let's try Anscombe or Patchell before we go to NZ.

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Post by RDW Tue 09 Feb 2016, 7:46 am

Never look forward to games against Wales - a team we always struggle against (although to be fair there are many of those!).

Plus they're looking strong and on form this 6N..

Biggest concerns for me:

- try scoring. The Welsh defence isn't going to be any less frugal than the English

- aerial battle. Wales' kicking game is vastly superior to ours, and they've used it to great effect in previous years

- back up front row. A big step down from the starting lot


Could be a long afternoon.

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Post by Prothero Tue 09 Feb 2016, 8:05 am

Interestingly for me as a Scotland fan the wales game is the one game where i wouldn't mind going back in time to the the old Hadden/Robinson ball up the jumper, stodgy defense, churn through phases, kick everything Scotland. Make it a war of attrition rather than a shoot out, We need to drag Wales into the trenches as im a bit concerned Wales have a few bigger weapons in their arsenal than we do.

That being said im hopeful that a few things will click on Saturday and that if it is a firefight we get the last shot in.


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Post by maestegmafia Tue 09 Feb 2016, 9:04 am

Prothero wrote:Interestingly for me as a Scotland fan the wales game is the one game where i wouldn't mind going back in time to the the old Hadden/Robinson ball up the jumper, stodgy defense, churn through phases, kick everything Scotland. Make it a war of attrition rather than a shoot out, We need to drag Wales into the trenches as im a bit concerned Wales have a few bigger weapons in their arsenal than we do.

That being said im hopeful that a few things will click on Saturday and that if it is a firefight we get the last shot in.


You would certainly want to hope that Scotland evolve a bit on last weeks game. Defence and attack weren't firing, that said, a pass instead of a chip and the game was yours.

Small margins, a few changes and an improvement on implementing the game plan and you will cause any team a lot of trouble.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 09 Feb 2016, 9:13 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Never look forward to games against Wales - a team we always struggle against (although to be fair there are many of those!).

Plus they're looking strong and on form this 6N..

Biggest concerns for me:

- try scoring. The Welsh defence isn't going to be any less frugal than the English

- aerial battle. Wales' kicking game is vastly superior to ours, and they've used it to great effect in previous years

- back up front row. A big step down from the starting lot


Could be a long afternoon.

A broken Buckaroo, an insect with the legs pulled off and Schizoid after a double dose of medication: all things with a better kicking game than Scotland.

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Post by Guest Tue 09 Feb 2016, 10:47 am

Prothero wrote:Interestingly for me as a Scotland fan the wales game is the one game where i wouldn't mind going back in time to the the old Hadden/Robinson ball up the jumper, stodgy defense, churn through phases, kick everything Scotland. Make it a war of attrition rather than a shoot out, We need to drag Wales into the trenches as im a bit concerned Wales have a few bigger weapons in their arsenal than we do.

That being said im hopeful that a few things will click on Saturday and that if it is a firefight we get the last shot in.


Well, it's worked for you against SA and Aus which are teams we've been unable to beat, so yes I can see this being effective for you.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 09 Feb 2016, 11:02 am

Griff wrote:
Prothero wrote:Interestingly for me as a Scotland fan the wales game is the one game where i wouldn't mind going back in time to the the old Hadden/Robinson ball up the jumper, stodgy defense, churn through phases, kick everything Scotland. Make it a war of attrition rather than a shoot out, We need to drag Wales into the trenches as im a bit concerned Wales have a few bigger weapons in their arsenal than we do.

That being said im hopeful that a few things will click on Saturday and that if it is a firefight we get the last shot in.


Well, it's worked for you against SA and Aus which are teams we've been unable to beat, so yes I can see this being effective for you.

We don't have the physical strength to beat Wales in an arm wrestle. We might just have the pace out wide to beat Wales but I can't see our execution improving enough to cause problems.

Someone said it earlier this Scotland side are very close and when they do click someone is gonna get leathered. It will not be this weekend though.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 09 Feb 2016, 11:55 am

maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:13 pm

If Wales play like they did on Sunday, Scotland will win. 

Wales have learned nothing since the WC. The embarrassment against 13 Aussies was still evident on Sunday, running into an opponent instead of around him, EVERY FRIGGIN TIME. 

The forwards did alright, but I think Scotland's forwards are better than Ireland's, and if they get parity up front, then the Welsh backs do not fill me with any confidence at all.

When are we going to evolve ? Gatland was talking about being more expansive in this 6N, but I have seen nothing of note to see otherwise, he is talking bollox.

We are still not seeing any backs moves, no inside shoulders, no running at angles, it's all bish bash bosh, all the time. What the frigg is Howley telling these players ?

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Post by EST Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:14 pm

I am finding it really difficult to get up for this game, I honestly can't see beyond a comfortable win for Wales.

It’s interesting that this current Scotland team struggle when they pull on a Scotland shirt. By talent, this is comfortably the best group of individuals since 1999, yet the same old mistakes reappear. Yes, there are mitigating circumstances: many players coming back from injury, poor form for their clubs, perhaps a WC hangover. However, there seems to be much less of a disparity in class when playing for their clubs against Irish and Welsh teams. Are Irish/Welsh players playing well below themselves in the Pro12? Do the Scotland players have an ingrained inferiority complex when they pull on the thistle?



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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What the frigg is Howley telling these players ?

George North said Howley has been telling him to get more touches of the ball. That's all well and good, as long as he's doing something meaningful with those touches.

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Post by RDW Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:If Wales play like they did on Sunday, Scotland will win. 

Can't say i agree with that!

I thought Wales played pretty well and, with the home crowd backing, will have too much for us.

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Post by GLove39 Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:34 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:If Wales play like they did on Sunday, Scotland will win. 

Can't say i agree with that!

I thought Wales played pretty well and, with the home crowd backing, will have too much for us.

Indeed. Dreading this fixture the most, although it least it can't be a bad as the last visit... Shocked

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:35 pm

Different set of expectations on Scotland here and they might relax a little which might help them - We cant afford to give them any lee-way as they have a great midfield. We have to be on our game and be clinical and ruthless and if we can do that a 10-20 point win is possible. If we're not on our game we could be in trouble, its happened before thumbsup .

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:37 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:If Wales play like they did on Sunday, Scotland will win. 

Can't say i agree with that!

I thought Wales played pretty well and, with the home crowd backing, will have too much for us.

That Welsh battering ram although failing to make Ireland break will have more than enough firepower to break us open. Perhaps not immediately but eventually.

Could be a horrible afternoon.
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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:40 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

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Post by Scottrf Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:44 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?
Probably true. Wilkinson missed about a half dozen in the WC final before his winning one.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 09 Feb 2016, 12:58 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?
Probably true. Wilkinson missed about a half dozen in the WC final before his winning one.

That's what I'm getting at. If something's probably true, say it's probably true - don't state it as a fact unless you know it to be a fact.


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Post by True Raven Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:01 pm

EST wrote:I am finding it really difficult to get up for this game, I honestly can't see beyond a comfortable win for Wales.

It’s interesting that this current Scotland team struggle when they pull on a Scotland shirt.  By talent, this is comfortably the best group of individuals since 1999, yet the same old mistakes reappear.  Yes, there are mitigating circumstances: many players coming back from injury, poor form for their clubs, perhaps a WC hangover.  However, there seems to be much less of a disparity in class when playing for their clubs against Irish and Welsh teams.  Are Irish/Welsh players playing well below themselves in the Pro12? Do the Scotland players have an ingrained inferiority complex when they pull on the thistle?  



The pro12 is not a breeding ground for international players. Gatland has to whip the players in shape when they first meet up as they're not ready for international rugby and undercooked. So Glasgow playing well inthe pro12 will not automatically translate to Scotland playing well.

This young scotland team needs games at international level together playing top teams, wins won't come immediately but they will eventually.

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Post by True Raven Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

I'm sure I heard Warburton had two turnovers and tipuric had none. I could have misheard though. However, Tupiric is not just in the team for his turnover ability, the guy is everywhere, it was him who got to Trimble which led to the scrum which Faletau got his try

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:09 pm

True Raven wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

I'm sure I heard Warburton had two turnovers and tipuric had none.  I could have misheard though.  However, Tupiric is not just in the team for his turnover ability, the guy is everywhere, it was him who got to Trimble which led to the scrum which Faletau got his try

On Chum V, I believe they said Warburton caused two turnovers. One was undoubtedly when he counter rucked and we gained a penalty.

I think it's brilliant how everybody (particularly the Scots) are talking down their team so much on here.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:15 pm

True Raven wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

I'm sure I heard Warburton had two turnovers and tipuric had none.  I could have misheard though.  However, Tupiric is not just in the team for his turnover ability, the guy is everywhere, it was him who got to Trimble which led to the scrum which Faletau got his try

It was also him that got sold the dummy by Murray that he scored from.

I think they have to decide who plays at 7 as for me Lydiate would start all the time.
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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:16 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
True Raven wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

I'm sure I heard Warburton had two turnovers and tipuric had none.  I could have misheard though.  However, Tupiric is not just in the team for his turnover ability, the guy is everywhere, it was him who got to Trimble which led to the scrum which Faletau got his try

On Chum V, I believe they said Warburton caused two turnovers. One was undoubtedly when he counter rucked and we gained a penalty.

I think it's brilliant how everybody (particularly the Scots) are talking down their team so much on here.

Haven't beaten you guys at MS or PS or whatever it's called now for years.

Perfectly justifiable.

Add to that the fact we're utter sh!te.

Although this will be the first Wales Scotland game I've missed since 2002 so we'll probably win.

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Post by exile jack Tue 09 Feb 2016, 1:19 pm

EST wrote:I am finding it really difficult to get up for this game, I honestly can't see beyond a comfortable win for Wales.

It’s interesting that this current Scotland team struggle when they pull on a Scotland shirt.  By talent, this is comfortably the best group of individuals since 1999, yet the same old mistakes reappear.  Yes, there are mitigating circumstances: many players coming back from injury, poor form for their clubs, perhaps a WC hangover.  However, there seems to be much less of a disparity in class when playing for their clubs against Irish and Welsh teams.  Are Irish/Welsh players playing well below themselves in the Pro12? Do the Scotland players have an ingrained inferiority complex when they pull on the thistle?  

From a Welsh perspective i'd be happy to see Sean Edwards Wall of Shame have 'How to Do' sections
on box and tactical kicking, drop goals,overlap execution,fixing a drift defence and ball catching for hookers.I live in hope.What I took from the Scotland game is you did have opportunities to win but like Wales they weren't taken.Taking your boys lightly would be a mistake.


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