World T20

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The ICC have run some poor events in yesteryear but this is already taking the biscuit


No tickets on sale still, reports Delhi are pulling out as a host and Pakistan might not even be allowed to play. Oh and Australia have already announced their squad

But everything is "progressing smoothly" according to the latest ICC press release...

Tournament over for England, you cant bring a seam attack that poor to a wc, 5 part time spinners would be better than that. How frustrating, cos the batting is basically in place...

temporary21 wrote:Tournament over for England, you cant bring a seam attack that poor to a wc, 5 part time spinners would be better than that. How frustrating, cos the batting is basically in place...

Well as was said at the time the Finn injury basically killed any legitimate hope we had.

Gotta give Plunkett a go and hope he comes off really now

There was a marked difference in the energy and quality of the fielding between the two teams IMO

Nothing you can do about the ones flying over your head though

I think Gayle was chasing anything tonight. Well played

Don't think the tournament is over - that's an exaggeration.
Afghanistan and Sri Lanka are ordinary. Neither would have chased that total
South Africa are beatable. I don't think we will - but they are beatable.

Seems a decent shout, Topley needs more time in the oven right now and he would go. Willey is OK but Jordan has been quite abject for a bit now

I think SA and Sri Lanka are comfortable favourites in both matches, SA will bash 250 off the bowling unit, and Sri Lanka have a surface advantage. Its a real frustration as the bowling has been letting the (quite stellar) batting down in one day a lot lately .

Sometimes you cant stop Gayle tbf, but 11 wides and many many full tosses dont help...

Agree - you can't be giving them any runs for free when they've got someone scoring them for fun.

Sri Lanka really aren't that good anymore - I'd back us to beat them 9 times out of 10.

The south Africa match is the crucial one now - we should've beat them in the first t20 in south Africa tbf, so not a foregone conclusion.

When we won it we lost the first match

I guess so, but they're in need of a bowling revamp for sure. At this point I think Morgan should hedge his bets and always look to chase a target than defend, because they struggle badly with the latter right now

No-one has ever won the T20 unbeaten have they?

Pak and WI just too good today

Strings Philander wrote:No-one has ever won the T20 unbeaten have they?

Hi Strings - not many teams win a sporting tournament playing catch up from almost the off either.

Alec Stewart tells the story of when he was captain, England went out of a World Cup the day before the team's official song was released as a record - not wishing to look on the black side but if we're planning a record this time, Morgan might be advised to push it out quickly!

If I sound a miserable old grouch, that's probably because I'm a miserable old grouch who has been through too much of this sort of thing.

I don't for one second think we will win it really Guildford. I didn't before today either. Just feel reports of England's death already are greatly exaggerated and all that. I think there will be some exciting performances to come, even if they don't result in lifting the cup (does it really matter to anyone in this country anyway? It's just a knockabout ain't it?)

You need a splash of optimism back in your life though Guildford. I'm saddened by its absence. May I suggest a listen to the 1995 classic-hit  "We're going to do it again" to stir that excited feeling once again? I think it was by the Manchester United's or something? Them or Ace of Base.

Know exactly what you mean on playing catch-up. I do think India will do just that this year though.

No real surprise to see a bowling attack comprising quite heavily of bits and pieces options get badly smashed up, though as Olly said once Finn was out it was always looking bad

I think we have to get Plunkett in and pray he takes a couple of wickets with his pace. Not something I would be confident in but at least give ourselves a chance

Thanks, Strings. Your concern for a cyber colleague is wonderfully uplifting in itself.

Also I don't buy that SL are that ordinary, I think they start as marginal favourites vs England in these conditions even before today

Even if they are ordinary, then presumably Windies expect to beat them so have surely won their second toughest game

In reality we want SL to be fairly good and hope they can beat one of Windies or SA

Jordan actually did quite well today, for all the doom and gloom. I think he'll generally do a good job at the death still, but will go for a few up front.

Plunkett gives you an option in the middle-overs if your spinners are taking some tap, something Morgan didn't have today. He went to Stokes, understandably IMO - at that point Rashid, turning the ball into Gayle, had just gone for 16, while Moeen had bowled an excellent over, so it seemed a logical move to me - but Stokes got hammered (11th over). Then again, had that second pull shot from Gayle travelled a metre less and been caught by Root (I think) the match could have been quite quite different.

I think changes have to be made to the bowling. If similar conditions there's no real point in picking Dawson, spinners are easy-ish pickings when the dew closes in and the pitch quickens up, so the only real option is to bring Plunkett in. I would drop Topley, whose strength (slower balls) is negated somewhat in said conditions.

Its kind of concerning that Jordan was the pick of the bowlers!

Hmm. Didn't see the WI innings so have to go on reports ...but I am left wondering if England's challenge hasn't evaporated before it started...

Obviously Gayle was on song and it isn't easy to do anything about that ; but I am reading a lot of criticism of the England bowling - if it is justified then my pre-event fears that the bowling was a bit short of class may be confirmed ; and that doesn't promote a lot of confidence with a must-win game against SA coming up.

I imagine the dew must have hampered the spinners , and it didn't look like like one of those turning pitches provided for the India-NZ game. But the pace men are my concern. I get that England have been looking to develop a specialist limited over bowling squad (and I don't oppose that idea) ; but for one reason or another what has happened here is that (disregarding all rounder Stokes) none of England's best five pace bowlers are at the party. I suspect no other team at the tournament is in that position. So it probably isn't surprising that this part of their game is proving to be a weakness. At least it was good to see that the much-maligned Jordan apparently performed quite well : shows people can improve ; though I am not getting carried away with a prediction of consistency yet...

Not much can be done about it now anyway so they will just have to maximise the batting and hope the spinners get a better chance from here on. I wouldn't totally give up as this format is rather prone to sudden and dramatic turnarounds ; but I am glad I haven't bet on them

My earlier thoughts that Willey and Topley might not be a viable pairing in Indian conditions may be getting confirmed, perhaps ? Plunkett might indeed be a likely alternative for the SA game ; though the pitch comes into it . I wouldn't rule out Dawson.

Good to get your views, Alfie.

Didn't see all our bowling either but from what I did - yes, the dew hindered the spinners and, yes again, Gayle was mightily on fire even by his hottest standards but the seamers were generally disappointing and Stokes in particular.

Having been gently ticked off by Strings for my pessimism, I'll now bring in another of my characteristics - cynicism. At risk of stealing a line from the much missed Mike Selig, Plunkett seems to be getting better with every game he doesn't play.

These pitches are awful, I've lost all interest in this world cup, can't believe Dhoni complained about the pitches in Asia cup, any bit if grass and help for bowlers are frowned upon in India, in what world is it entertaining to watch 200 score being par. Awful, they've bought the the ipl method to this, f'ing Roads, any team reliant on seam attack got little chance

Half empty grounds, turns out selling tickets mere weeks before a major tournament isn't a good thing
Who'd have thought it

Who is in the best 5 Alfie?

Finn (injured)
Anderson (never done much T20)
Broad (omitted, wrongly IMO but has to be managed somewhow and has barely played the format in recent years)

Willey? Fintoff (if you ask his opinion)?

I was wondering that, Wood is one presumably, but surely not Woakes after that?

Just listened to a cricket podcast and Daniel Norcross was on it (does BBC radio sometimes) thought he made a good point about England

In the middle overs of the Windies game, we sort of just checked and went quiet for a couple overs which meant we ended up short by about 20/30 runs on that pitch. Which is exactly what this England team isn't setup to do. He explained about having the likes of Willey/Jordan at 9/10 means you can go hell for leather ball 1 to ball 120, if you get three down you don't need to reassess as you have batsmen who can do damage later to come - if you're 5/6 down of course but not there.

I actually think he's spot on - the team is setup to blast as many runs as possible (ie. 200-220 on good wickets) to make up for the poor bowling attack.

What sort of wicket are we expecting tomorrow ? The same as the India vs New Zealand game? If so 3 spinners the way to go surely.

VTR wrote:I was wondering that, Wood is one presumably, but surely not Woakes after that?

Sorry ...I sort of assumed Woakes and Wood were generally considered numbers four and five at present - maybe my Test Match bias

Of course one can argue at the margins - compare the relative merits of , say , Jordan and Woakes (though I'd have thought that majority opinion on here was firmly in favour of the latter) ; but I think you can make a reasonable case that the England pecking order runs something like this :

Anderson / Broad

Finn

Wood / Woakes

Jordan / Plunkett

Topley / Willey / Anyone else who hasn't yet been tried.

Now as I did say in my original post , I have no problem with England deliberately setting out to create a specialist squad for limited overs cricket - I think it will have benefits for each form of the game , eventually if not immediately. And injuries of course have had an effect .

I was not making that point as a criticism of England's selection : rather that it is just the way things have turned out. And to compare with others : SA will no doubt feature Steyn and Rabada on Friday : NZ have Boult and Southee on deck even if they choose not to use them on certain pitches ; and Australia , while shorn of Starc , have Hazlewood available to take part should he fit their plans ...England do not have those options ; just a relatively inexperienced group of bowlers none of whom have really ever excelled at the highest level - at least yet. Ces't la vie...

If the later pitches support spin , it may not matter that much as the success or failure of the team may depend largely on strong batting and the form of Rashid and Moeen - and perhaps the readiness of the management to entrust Dawson with a chance.

Aussies are much worse players of spin than England

What have New Zealand done with the real Mitchell McClenaghan

Well NZ pull off a good win.....punching above their weight as they usually do, the kiwis in ICC events, until they get to semis or finals

NZ doing well again, beaten the two big guns in their group.

England win the toss and bowl. Unchanged side. Hmm. It's a fine line between admirable show of faith in your team and stubborn refusal to see anything's wrong. I'm not sure England have got this one right TBH, I appreciate guildford's point about Plunkett becoming better while not playing, but it's worth mentioning that he did well in the UAE when he last played too, I would have picked him here, just to offer something a bit different.

Still, chasing a target for a change should help England you'd think, especially given dew is likely to play a role.

Early wickets the key - Morris/Abbott at 7/8, not a particularly deep line up

Good start by Willey.

Not so Topley

There is showing faith ; and there is stubbornness .

de Kock not messing about.

Maybe he likes left arm bowling

Seam bowling is gash rinse repeat

String of boundaries and now a dropped catch !

England are a few more minutes away from exiting this tournament in record time...

This might be horrendous even by recent limited over WC efforts.

Shall we just give up?

260 is the record international T20 score*, for those who are interested.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/287860.html

*But only for the next hour and a half

Jordan. 4 4 4 6 4

I know these two can bat ; but this is embarassing.

They'll be chasing 250 at this rate.

Jordan ffs... Short and wide, full on leg, full and wide, short on leg, full and wide, ball 6 finally goes to his yorker

Power play over so Rashid will get a go now.

Would be a good time for a hat trick or two ...but I fear the horse has well and truly bolted already whatever he does.

Fifty de Kock

Hey look Chris Jordan still stinks who'd have thought it - poor woakes

Had to smile at Nasser's comment - ''A B, just the man for a crisis.''

Moeen gets the break at last...

Award for the quote of the year : Nass with "England needed that "

Need to somehow keep them around 200-220 to have a chance

A pity really , as the England batting in this squad looks quite exciting ; but it is becoming clear that this England bowling simply isn't up to the standard required. Nor is the fielding , to be fair.

All the positive feelings from the New Look Team now run the risk of being swamped by a very early and humiliating exit from this competition ...barring a miraculous run chase.

At least the spinners have claimed a couple of wickets ; but (a) they have too much to do and (b) there are only two of them , so the club standard seamers (ok , a little harsh ; but so far today...) will be back.
In all seriousness why bring Dawson for the tournament if you aren't going to play him on these pitches ? The pace attack , even when closer to its best , isn't likely to win much in Indian conditions. And the all rounders enable them to pick a varied attack...it seems to work for NZ.

Third wicket ...well done Moeen.

Might have to give young Joe an over or two

Moeen and Rashid doing as well as you can here keeping them in a little bit of check

Olly wrote:Moeen and Rashid doing as well as you can here keeping them in a little bit of check

Indeed. But they're finished now with seven overs to go...

Morgan heard me ! Root on.

Hales next ?

England's fielding has been absolute sh1te all winter

Olly wrote:Moeen and Rashid doing as well as you can here keeping them in a little bit of check

Yes, decent comeback at the moment although I fear a rout in the last 2 or 3 overs if we don't get some more wickets before then. As you said earlier, their tail is not strong (on paper) - wickets now is probably our only (slight) remaining chance.

Terrible misfield there by Hales - can't afford that now of all times.

We must've dropped Amla 10+ times this winter