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2016 6 Nations Champions are...

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Who will win 2016 6 Nations

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Post by No9 Mon 15 Feb 2016, 10:15 am

First topic message reminder :

No bickering here on this thread, there are plenty of others to for you girls to pull each others hair...

Here, just simply answer the poll... Now half way through (well nearly), who's going to lift that 6 Nations trophy for 2016.

Put all teams in the mix, for fairness (in alphabetic order not current standing)...

Not asking in the poll if you predict a Grand Slam win, as 2 sides have a chance of it, so if you want to predict that, by all means do so with a response...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 12:43 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 if we have too many good players why couldn't we win a GS? Why did we fail in the RWC? It's because our players haven't been good enough... Our bench was poor vs Wales too. Our back up for the likes of B.Youngs and Billy V weren't good enough. Our so called famous depth was not good enough. Webber wasn't good enough Our centres weren't good enough etv.

England have a lack of world class players, we all know this but there's been poor decision making which has hampered the efforts to develop them.

lostinwales why always wait till next year? Lancaster's squandering of George was a poor decision, Eddie Jones needs to learn from this. Not emulate him.

Because other teams are good too perhaps? We could have easily had a 6Ns win or 2 including a GS. Wales in the WC was very disappointing but remember BV was cover himself and there isn't enough time to develop great depth that quickly.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 22 Feb 2016, 3:29 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Exactly. Just imagine the criticism Gatland would be getting if he had said what Jones did. One rule for every other coach I guess.
It's the same principle as the one which says Wales have more right to feel confident of taking the title because they've done it before. Gatland would likely draw more criticism than Jones if he got a bit gobby, because he's done it before.

Personally, I'm on side with the idea Wales are entitled to feel more confident than England. In the Six Nations, they have proved they can win big matches, while England have proved they know how to lose them. England have looked good for the title before, on the strength of early results and upcoming fixtures. I can even recall Brian Moore writing that England had already won the 2013 title before the last round of matches, because he thought Wales had to score more than even the hatful they did. He forgot that every additional point for Wales was one off England's points difference in a head-to-head.

England still have to face Ireland, Wales and France. Over the last five Six Nations campaigns, England have lost a single match to one of...Ireland, Wales and France. On only one occasion was that record still enough to take the title. In fact, we have not managed to beat all three of those teams in a championship since the 2003 Grand Slam.

Undoubtedly, there's an advantage to have two games against these opponents at home. Ireland have injuries, France are stuttering, and revenge would be sweet against the Welsh. There's no arrogance in recognising factors which might tip the balance in a close contest but it's perfectly fair to note that all our ducks have been lined up before, and we've missed.


I haven't seen anything in the way England are playing right now to inspire greater confidence that previous years. Still, a couple of those games we lost were close run things, so it's not impossible we could get luckier, rather than much better, and do the job that way.


That's the best post I've seen on here in a long time - Top job Rugby Fan thumbsup Ale

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 22 Feb 2016, 4:30 pm

Riskysports wrote:Wales - A close second in my mind. A slightly leakier defence, but strong runners and a good bench too. Not sure they quite have their patterns in the back clicking yet

We have no patterns in the backs. Crying or Very sad

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 10:07 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 if we have too many good players why couldn't we win a GS? Why did we fail in the RWC? It's because our players haven't been good enough... Our bench was poor vs Wales too. Our back up for the likes of B.Youngs and Billy V weren't good enough. Our so called famous depth was not good enough. Webber wasn't good enough Our centres weren't good enough etv.

England have a lack of world class players, we all know this but there's been poor decision making which has hampered the efforts to develop them.

lostinwales why always wait till next year? Lancaster's squandering of George was a poor decision, Eddie Jones needs to learn from this. Not emulate him.

Because other teams are good too perhaps? We could have easily had a 6Ns win or 2 including a GS. Wales in the WC was very disappointing but remember BV was cover himself and there isn't enough time to develop great depth that quickly.

If the other sides are so good then why did no NH side make the RWC semi finals? When it came down to it the tri nations and Argentina were head and shoulders above the NH sides. The best sides play in the rugby championship not the 6 nations at the moment. England should be able to win 5/5 in the 6 nations.

BV wasn't cover - he was our best no 8. There is time to develop depth if you use the opportunities properly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 10:36 am

Well I would still put money on Ireland dispatching Argentina if they had a full compliment of players. Wales also went through a bit of a crisis in midfield, Scotland were unlucky a bit even if you point to their over win ratio. Not really head and shoulders for me.

BV was cover for Morgan in general under Lancaster. You could argue the toss over who was better, both very good for me but offering slightly different things. Given in that particular area (8) Lancaster put his eggs in for them 2 and then Easter seemed fair enough.

So there's time to develop depth now, how would you use this time (where is it for a start) and who would get the time. remember you would need to develop strength down to the 3rd choice in each position as per your grumble on hooker and 8.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 23 Feb 2016, 10:56 am

beshocked wrote:...When it came down to it the tri nations and Argentina were head and shoulders above the NH sides...
NZ always looked head and shoulders above, but not the other sides.

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:26 am

no 7 & 1/2 can't blame injuries for everything. Most sides get them. It's how you deal with adversity that sets you apart. Don't get me wrong it's tough but you need to bounce back.

Wales dealt with their injuries better than England. England's ability to deal with injuries was disappointing.

Ireland have relied too heavily on certain players too.

A team's ability to absorb injuries is important in an attritional sport like rugby.

Injuries are a blessing and a curse, they can rob a side of frontline players but allow others gametime which can help build depth. It's important to see them as an opportunity and not just a bad thing.

The tri nations and Argentina dominated the NH sides in the W/L stakes. A plucky loss is still a loss sadly. Not every game was one sided but the Argentina vs Ireland, England vs Australia, NZ vs France were.

Morgan hasn't been the best no 8 for a while now, that didn't change in the RWC. I don't dislike Morgan he's been a good no 8 for England in the past. Sadly the main word is the past.

Time to develop has been squandered. RWC warm ups,Scotland and Italy - all not utilised to their optimum amount. Riskier to do so vs more difficult opposition.

Rugby fan Argentina tore Ireland to shreds. Didn't show any form to suggest they would beat any of the tri nations. SA and Australia only narrowly beat Wales but a win over Wales is a common occurence for them. Scotland were unlucky vs Australia but well beaten by SA, still two losses sadly. Australia hammered England.

The NH sides weren't good enough.

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:27 am

I don't think any NH Team would have "dispatched" Argentina. For me the best quality game of the RWC was Arg v NZ first up. They are far more powerful and dynamic than anything in the NH at the moment. thumbsup

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:30 am

Yes injuries happen but my initial point was the quality of the Ireland and Wales sides, France to a much lesser extent, and you countered with the WC. Fair enough but the sides at the WC weren't the ones who competed in the 6Ns against England in the last few years.

I'll take it you would at least acknowledge now beshocked that it is quite hard to develop that sufficient quality and experience down to the 3rd choice at least?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:31 am

Fair enough Ruby but I've seen Ireland with a their first choice push NZ as well.

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:38 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fair enough Ruby but I've seen Ireland with a their first choice push NZ as well.

I've seen England win a world cup but I'm not sure what the relevance is. Ireland for me would not have lived with Arg even with 1 or 2 personnel changes. I don't mind differing on this one. thumbsup

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:39 am

Yup we do differ.

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:58 am

no 7 & 1/2 I think you are making out France,Ireland and Wales to be better than they are. None of them have been unbeatable juggernauts in the last few years, indeed England have beaten them just not all in one 6 nations. They haven't generally been on the level of the tri nations in my opinion.

It's hard to develop if you make poor decisions and waste opportunities yes. Not all Lancaster's decisions were poor but he made enough for it to sufficiently hamper England so they failed to make it out of their pool and fail to win a GS.

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup we do differ.

thumbsup It would be interesting to have Eirebilly's view here or Notch

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:04 pm

Personally I think Wales, ireland and England have been very well matched in the past few seasons and I'd still consider us all to be good teams with good players.

It's hard to develop that depth. Seriously have a think how you'd go around developing that sort of depth and experience you'd say you require. It can't be done.

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Post by munkian Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Personally I think Wales, ireland and England have been very well matched in the past few seasons and I'd still consider us all to be good teams with good players.

It's hard to develop that depth.  Seriously have a think how you'd go around developing that sort of depth and experience you'd say you require. It can't be done.

England are the richest Union in the world with access to the largest pool of players and capable of attracting players from overseas to play for them.

It shouldn't be impossible for you - you have all the advantages.
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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:30 pm

munkian I agree. With all our advantages I believe England have underachieved, I am not expecting England to get the GS every year but none since 2003 isn't good enough.

no 7 & 1/2 Wales and Ireland are good sides but neither are the benchmark though, NZ are.

No side in the 6 nations are as good as the tri nations in my opinion.

I've said many times what I would have done. Would I have been successful? We'll never know. Do I think I could have been? Yes

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Post by Cyril Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:41 pm

beshocked wrote:I've said many times what I would have done. Would I have been successful? We'll never know. Do I think I could have been? Yes
aaaand the winner of the Alan Partridge award for today goes to... beshocked Wink

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:49 pm

You haven't really thought through how it would be done. You've picked apart that England had to go to easter. What should have been done in the preceding 4 years. How would you also cover all the other positions to a similar level of experience? Where do these games come from?

munkian the point was about building experience to the 3rd man down, that is impossible in all areas of the team while maintaining a desire to win every game. Whether that be England using their resources or Wales using theirs.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:52 pm

munkian wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Personally I think Wales, ireland and England have been very well matched in the past few seasons and I'd still consider us all to be good teams with good players.

It's hard to develop that depth.  Seriously have a think how you'd go around developing that sort of depth and experience you'd say you require. It can't be done.

England are the richest Union in the world with access to the largest pool of players and capable of attracting players from overseas to play for them.

It shouldn't be impossible for you - you have all the advantages.

It means we have a big pool of potential players. However we don't actually play any more games than anyone else in the top tier therefore we don't have any more experience to share out between the players than the others.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:55 pm

And we are supposed to chase form as well so that may mean having to biuld that 3rd choise depth but having to use 8 players to do it.

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Post by Hoonercat Tue 23 Feb 2016, 12:59 pm

beshocked wrote:I've said many times what I would have done. Would I have been successful? We'll never know. Do I think I could have been? Yes

Did it include only picking in-form players then dropping them when they lose form in preference for another in-form player?

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 23 Feb 2016, 1:02 pm

Hoonercat wrote:
beshocked wrote:I've said many times what I would have done. Would I have been successful? We'll never know. Do I think I could have been? Yes

Did it include only picking in-form players then dropping them when they lose form in preference for another in-form player?
laughing thumbsup

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 23 Feb 2016, 1:12 pm

In 2007, NZ and Australia both got knocked out at the quarter final stage by NH teams. Although South Africa went on to win, pundits spent a lot of time talking up NH competition structure, and how it was superior preparation for tournament rugby. The success of Argentina seemed to reinforce that fact, since so many of their players were in Europe at the time, and they were seen as playing in a very NH style.

That was an overreaction. I suspect the success of the Rugby Championship sides at the 2015 Cup has seen an overreaction the other way.

There's no doubt that the big 3 SH sides have a far better reputation for winning when it matters than any teams in the north, so there's no argument on that score. The question is over how big that gap is.

For all the embarrassment of losing to Australia at the World Cup, the last ten matches between England and the Wallabies have been split 5-5. The ten matches before that - going back to 2000 - were 6-4 in England's favour. That's nearly half the games the two sides have ever played. Nobody would claim England are head and shoulders above Australia, so it's hard to see how the reverse can be true based on those results.

England have a dreadful record of late against South Africa but Ireland have a fair one over the same period. Head and shoulders only refers to NZ.

2015 was a bad World Cup for the 6N sides. If NH supporters let that feed an inferiority complex, then they deserve to see their teams lose.

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 2:50 pm

Hoonercat if someone is having a dip in form isn't fully fit then yes.

Farrell Jr went through a rough patch of form for England in AIs 2014, he should have been dropped. He wasn't. It was a foolish mistake. Dropping an out of form player can be the motivation that they need to come back stronger.

no 7 & 1/2 England could have given Ewers gametime in the warm ups.

Decided to give Clark game time instead of either Ksevic or Ewers.

England went for the "experience" of Webber when he was in poor form and has barely started for England if ever.

Rugby fan you talk about the gap - if you take the tri nations as a whole vs the NH it's still big.

England might have an okay record vs Australia but Wales don't.

Australia thumped us in our backyard - as of now till we prove otherwise they are the superior team. Not just a narrow loss. A thumping. England's record against SA in recent years is embarrassing. Sure England are one of the only sides in the NH to beat NZ in the last decade but NZ's dominance is still pretty clear.

NZ have dominated Wales and Ireland for decades. SA haven't found it easy vs Ireland but only because Ireland refuse to travel to SA. Only playing home games helps.

The funny thing is despite the tri nations travelling more away than the NH sides, the tri nations still dominate.

Even in RWCs in general the tri nations have dominated of course. Only England have broken the stranglehold in 2003 and that was only temporary. Since then England have got worse and worse in RWCs.

It's not inferiority complex. It's brutal honesty. We haven't been good enough. We can be better. Let's not kid ourselves. There's a lot of work to do but I think England can rebuild and become stronger.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 2:55 pm

Well that would have been 1 cap to Ewers ahead of a world cup so if called upon I hardly think that would provide the depth and experience you were calling for, ditto giving George the nod ahead of someone who was more experienced in Webber which is what we were talking about. can we just admit that there's no way to do it? What you actually mean again is the guys you wanted picked weren't. Nothing to do with developing depth and experience down to 3rd choice. You want your guys picked, anything else you consider a mistake.

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Post by Hoonercat Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:11 pm

What would be your team to face Ireland Beshocked?

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fair enough Ruby but I've seen Ireland with a their first choice push NZ as well.

Ireland 22 - 24 New Zealand 2013

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/25037059

Kiwis given a second chance to kick a conversion won in the dying seconds.

New Zealand 22 - 19 Ireland 2012

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/new-zealand-countries/new-zealand-22-ireland-19-2nd-test-verdict-21934

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:50 pm

Webber's "experience" counted for very little. He wasn't good enough. It was a poor selection.

Disappointed that you keep defending Lancaster's decision to pick him.

Easter's "experience" counted for little too. Ewers would have at least offered some extra power, unfortunately we'll never know.

There is a way to do it. Pick the correct people.

Hoonercat

My team selection doesn't matter.

maestegmafia still never won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_Ireland_and_New_Zealand

On that tour NZ also thrashed Ireland 60-0.....


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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:57 pm

What do you mean defending Lancaster's choice of Webber? I've told you before I'd have picked differently just using this example of Lancasters decision to build depth and do that over time. You don't mean develop it all you just mean pick the players you would don't you? You have talked about the lack of experienced back up to 8 and 2. I was assuming you would apply that to all positions and asked how you'd get that depth and experience and your answer was you'd pick players like Ewers, George et al with no experience.

So we come full circle it wouldn't matter what depth had been developed you'd see it as a mistake to use those players if you would have chosen differently.

ps go on jot your team to face Ireland now or at least the couple of key choices you'd make.

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Post by Hoonercat Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:09 pm

beshocked wrote:
Hoonercat

My team selection doesn't matter.

Of course it matters Beshocked. I've seen calls from you say EJ should include this player and that player but I've yet to see the entire team you would pick. It's easy to pick individual players and call for their inclusion but not so easy to pick a team to win a game. I'm interested to see how you would include these players in a single squad.

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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:55 pm

no 7 & 1/2 players can only gain experience if you pick them.

Webber was a waste of a spot in the RWC. He wasn't in form. Behind Batty at Bath.

It's not development to waste caps. Burgess was a waste too. Yes you apply to other positions, some are doing better than others. LH at least has two though probably plans need to be made for a 3rd choice.

Okay fine

1.Mako
2.George (vc)
3.Cole
4.Kruis
5.Launchbury (c)
6.Itoje
7.Clifford
8.Billy (vc)

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Farrell
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown (vc)

16.Marler
17.Hartley
18.Hill
19.Lawes
20.Robshaw
21.Care
22.Daly
23.Goode

Would make 3 changes to the starting pack.

I would drop Haskell. Sarries guys together starting, Saints and Quins players on the bench, keeps combos together.

Lineout struggled vs Italy so changes made. Drop Hartley. George needs to start at some time anyway.

bring in two players to strengthen the backrow.

Would have wanted to ease Clifford,Itoje and George in as starters but against Ireland at home will have to suffice because not picked sooner. All 3 have come off the bench albeit not much game time.

The guys off the bench then will get the opportunity to show their hunger.

Will help with the depth situation. Create a strong 23.

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Post by BamBam Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:00 pm

Beshocked, I think you've overlooked the merits of Petrus Du Plessis, Jackson Wray, Will Fraser, Richard Wigglesworth, Brad Barritt and Alex Goode


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Post by beshocked Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:10 pm

BamBam wrote:Beshocked, I think you've overlooked the merits of Petrus Du Plessis, Jackson Wray, Will Fraser, Richard Wigglesworth, Brad Barritt and Alex Goode


Bambam

Sadly none of them are good enough at the moment, bar perhaps Goode who I hope can bring his club form to England and maybe Fraser will make it one day.

It's about picking the best players at the time.

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Post by BamBam Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:18 pm

Ah right

Just to clarify, if we lose a couple of lineouts against Ireland with the above team, will Luke Cowan Dickie be your choice for starting hooker against Wales?

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Post by Hoonercat Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:21 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 players can only gain experience if you pick them.

Webber was a waste of a spot in the RWC. He wasn't in form. Behind Batty at Bath.

It's not development to waste caps. Burgess was a waste too. Yes you apply to other positions, some are doing better than others. LH at least has two though probably plans need to be made for a 3rd choice.

Okay fine

1.Mako
2.George (vc)
3.Cole
4.Kruis
5.Launchbury (c)
6.Itoje
7.Clifford
8.Billy (vc)

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Farrell
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown (vc)

16.Marler
17.Hartley
18.Hill
19.Lawes
20.Robshaw
21.Care
22.Daly
23.Goode

Would make 3 changes to the starting pack.

I would drop Haskell. Sarries guys together starting, Saints and Quins players on the bench, keeps combos together.

Lineout struggled vs Italy so changes made. Drop Hartley. George needs to start at some time anyway.

bring in two players to strengthen the backrow.

Would have wanted to ease Clifford,Itoje and George in as starters but against Ireland at home will have to suffice because not picked sooner. All 3 have come off the bench albeit not much game time.

The guys off the bench then will get the opportunity to show their hunger.

Will help with the depth situation. Create a strong 23.

Jamie George as vice captain in his first cap? For me there's no one in that pack who is a leader, who can calm nerves if England get off to a bad start. That's a team I'd like to see start maybe in the summer, but far too inexperienced for a win against Ireland IMHO. Surprised you haven't dropped Ford for Farrell (I would have) though options are limited in the centre.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:24 pm

Are you still banging on about Webber...just get over it....please.

Can you not just make a point(about 6 month ago) and move on?????

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:58 pm

So again it's nothing to do with experience its about who you'd prefer, George and Ewers over the experience at the wc so much for building, depth out goes easing people in. Out goes reservations about inexperienced players for Ireland as well, in comes new combos with few caps (especially starting which you held against Webber). Goode on the bench which you criticised previously.

Said it before but you use any excuse to pick apart coaches selections but ignore those when you want to pick those you want.

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Post by beshocked Wed 24 Feb 2016, 4:06 pm

Bambam we'll see what happens won't we.

Hoonercat it's not his first cap is it?

Would have dropped Ford if we had half decent 12 alternatives.

Disagree - I think Launchbury,George,Clifford and Itoje could rally the others. Bit more intelligent than the likes of Hartley and Haskell too who you think are great leaders?

Sgt Pooly when you admit it was a mistake yes.

no 7 & 1/2 who I preferred happened to be the best choice for England.

A waste of international caps on Webber in the RWC and warm ups didn't help anyone.

I've said time and again what my ideal way of doing things would be - give more experience in the easier games and the warm ups to the best prospects. If the coaches squander those opportunities then unfortunately the tougher games have to be used.


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Post by Hoonercat Wed 24 Feb 2016, 4:24 pm

My bad Beshocked I meant to say start, either way he's still too inexperienced to be vice captain IMHO.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 24 Feb 2016, 4:32 pm

George, Itoje, Clifford, Daly - all being introduced to the team gradually but surely. Not because of injury either.

Eddie Jones is doing exactly what some demanded from Stuart Lancaster - not throwing young players straight in at the deep end but introducing them to the team via squad sessions, training, then game time.


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Post by beshocked Wed 24 Feb 2016, 4:52 pm

Hoonercat he's only inexperienced at international level because of a lack of gametime. I still think he's better leadership material than some more experienced players and for me that's more important than his number of caps. He's also played in front of almost 80k people at Twickenham before - okay it was merely an AP final where he scored a try but still.... I think it helps. Would be one of 3 Vcs so hardly that daunting.

Londontiger depends what you mean the deep end is.

France away in the first game of the 6 nations is not the same as Scotland or Italy away.

I know a poster like no 7 & 1/2 thinks that they are the same. They really aren't.


I have a different viewpoint when it comes to which games I think are best for development - RWC warm up games and the easier matches.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 24 Feb 2016, 5:26 pm

Lets stop the pretence you don't mind a lack of experience or debuting a relative or completely new player in any game; you just base it on the player chosen. Nothing wrong in just saying that. You would be happy starting Itoje against Ireland this Saturday even if it were away as you think he's good enough. Just highlights your previous reasons could have been masking grumpiness Ashton, George weren't picked.


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Post by BamBam Wed 24 Feb 2016, 5:34 pm

beshocked wrote:Bambam we'll see what happens won't we.


Thought you were a big fan of hypotheticals, or does it not apply when a Saracen is the player involved?

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 24 Feb 2016, 6:38 pm

Just to add some fuel to the fire:

Eddie Jones wrote:"Elliot Daly has impressed in training and is now ready to be part of the matchday 23,"

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Post by BamBam Wed 24 Feb 2016, 7:29 pm

What?! Since when does training mean a thing

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 24 Feb 2016, 7:49 pm

Trying to do the maths by my reckoning...form of Itoje - tired Italy + mistake by Jones leaving out experienced Parling x Parling was the wrong guy to get experience + we're at home so full debut ok - Ireland are better than France + U20 captain x Saracens player = Itoje will start.

Either that or Jones is an idiot who's brainwashed the 2 great coaches under him into picking a guy who's proved nothing and has never even got signed by a proper club yet.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 24 Feb 2016, 9:43 pm

BamBam wrote:What?! Since when does training mean a thing

Must've taken a leaf out of Gatland's book.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 25 Feb 2016, 6:27 am

RWC games are not a time for development, you are wrong.


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Post by beshocked Thu 25 Feb 2016, 10:08 am

RWC warm ups are a good time for development. I stick by that.

Quite clearly Ireland aren't better than France are they?

Ireland haven't won an international game of rugby for a long time now. Ireland in my opinion are vulnerable which I've gone for a big England win. Ireland still have a lot of good players but they need to stop the downward spiral.

Might well pull off an upset by beating England but going by the form book England should win.

Bambam what did Daly do in training this week that he didn't do in the previous weeks?

Daly needs to back it up on the field like any player. Being world class in training means nothing unless you can be world class in actual rugby matches.

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