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Manu Onboard ?

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Post by gregortree Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:11 am

Maybe, depending on evidence of injury recovery (hamstring strain) fitness and form on his return to imminent club duty.
Might be in shape in time to face Wales at Twickenham. Farrell /Tuilagi would bolster defence, but Manu needs to involve Joseph in attack. Sucking in defenders will be one way, but offloading is where I'd like to see Manu make improvement.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:21 am

I would rather see Tuilagi work himself back into game shape without any worry about International duty. He hasn't played much recently and I think would benefit more from a quality run of games with Tigers.

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Post by nathan Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:18 am

He's starting tonight, but I agree the doc. He has a tendency to jump out of line until he has been playing regularly.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:44 am

There is no way on earth that Manu should be considered for the 6Ns.

While he had a pretty decent offloading game, and a good pass of his right hand (shocking that so many centres/fhs seem so one handed) he is not fit enough for Int rugby and any selection will be based on hope and ancient history.

That Jiones has been publicly talking about him is, imo, crazy and potentially undermining to the current squad.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:00 am

Manwho?
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Post by majesticimperialman Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:12 am

Manu should be no where near the England team this 6ns. He should stay with Leciester and get hime fully match fit.

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:29 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Manu should be  no where near the England team this 6ns. He should stay with Leciester and get hime fully match fit.

Completely disagree. Parachute him in straight away against Wales please.
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Post by bluestonevedder Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:37 am

Totally agree that he shouldn't be in the 6N.

Just ease him back into playing. As Nathan says, he has a tendency to jump out of the line when he's lacking game time. Against the Welsh boys we cannot afford for him to be doing that!

He also needs to just get fit. He looked a little on the heavier side (even for Manu).

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Post by Big Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:40 am

A lot of negativity here about selecting Manu, but are you sure? Surely the English way is to bring him back in when he's not had time to get to match fitness back and complain when (shock horror) he doesn't play a blinder. That way next year when Mauger has magically imparted all his rugby knowledge and skill and made Manu the best centre in the world ever, we can refuse to pick him as he has already had his chance and didn't perform.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:42 am

Big wrote:A lot of negativity here about selecting Manu, but are you sure?  Surely the English way is to bring him back in when he's not had time to get to match fitness back and complain when (shock horror) he doesn't play a blinder.  That way next year when Mauger has magically imparted all his rugby knowledge and skill and made Manu the best centre in the world ever, we can refuse to pick him as he has already had his chance and didn't perform.

I am sure if he wanted another go at international rugby he could always switch to Saracens

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:13 am

Have we not learned from the World Cup what rushing people back does.....???

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:33 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Have we not learned from the World Cup what rushing people back does.....???

Hopefully not Yahoo
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Post by stub Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:38 am

I agree that there's absolutely no point rushing him back. He needs to be coaxed back to full fitness and form and used carefully. Hopefully Eddie will do things properly rather than repeat errors of old. It'll be interesting to see how Manu goes tonight.

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Post by TightHEAD Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:39 pm

munkian wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Manu should be  no where near the England team this 6ns. He should stay with Leciester and get hime fully match fit.

Completely disagree. Parachute him in straight away against Wales please.

Careful what you wish for, he could end up taking Roberts out and scoring a hat trick. but then again.....!
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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:42 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
munkian wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Manu should be  no where near the England team this 6ns. He should stay with Leciester and get hime fully match fit.

Completely disagree. Parachute him in straight away against Wales please.

Careful what you wish for, he could end up taking Roberts out and scoring a hat trick. but then again.....!

Roberts has had him in his pocket every time has faced him Whistle
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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:07 pm

1st time Tuilagi played Wales Roberts was there and Tuilagi scored. Front on Roberts should make the tackle but if Tuilagi hits space Roberts won't keep up.

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:14 pm

lostinwales wrote:1st time Tuilagi played Wales Roberts was there and Tuilagi scored. Front on Roberts should make the tackle but if Tuilagi hits space Roberts won't keep up.

Which game was this ? Honestly don't remember that one.
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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:15 pm

August 2011 - warm up match for the RWC.

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:17 pm

lostinwales wrote:August 2011 - warm up match for the RWC.

Doesn't count mun ! Wink
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Post by Rugby Fan Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:22 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Have we not learned from the World Cup what rushing people back does.....???
Eddie Jones did all right rushing players back from injury with Japan, so there's a good chance he doesn't realize that it almost never seems to work with England. Not sure why I say "almost".

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Post by LondonTiger Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:24 pm

Bearing in mind that in their other two meetings, Manu was much superior in the first, and even in the second where Manu was poor, Roberts was anonymous.

Should be irrelevant as Manu should be nowhere near the team.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:31 pm

munkian wrote:
lostinwales wrote:August 2011 - warm up match for the RWC.

Doesn't count mun ! Wink

You are the one who said 'every time'....

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:33 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Bearing in mind that in their other two meetings, Manu was much superior in the first, and even in the second where Manu was poor, Roberts was anonymous.

Should be irrelevant as Manu should be nowhere near the team.

I'd like to see Roberts' tackle count in this 'anonymous' role he played..
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Post by Guest Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:03 pm

Manu onboard?  Overboard, surely?!


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Post by thomh Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:14 pm

Manu had a shocker in Cardiff 2013. Nothing to do with Roberts.

I've got no particular desire to see him rushed back. See how the next three games go before we face Wales.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:18 pm

munkian wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Bearing in mind that in their other two meetings, Manu was much superior in the first, and even in the second where Manu was poor, Roberts was anonymous.

Should be irrelevant as Manu should be nowhere near the team.

I'd like to see Roberts' tackle count in this 'anonymous' role he played..

5 made, two missed. 9 carries for 18m. So OK not completely anonymous, but close.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/133795.html

And to be fair he was more anonymous in the 6Ns game Manu played pretty well in with 2 tackles made and 1 missed and 11m carried

http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/133774.html



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Post by Cowshot Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:41 pm

I don't see Manu back for England immediately. Hope not anyway. Cockers has been careful with him and I expect that he and EJ will have been talking and with the emphasis on fitness, Manu is definitely not match fit. I'd rather bring him back for the friendlies in the summer.

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Post by munkian Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:47 pm

thomh wrote:Manu had a shocker in Cardiff 2013. Nothing to do with Roberts.

I've got no particular desire to see him rushed back. See how the next three games go before we face Wales.

Yeah, in the 2013 game Roberts put him on his arse and there wasn't a peep out of him for the rest of the game.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:54 pm

munkian wrote:
thomh wrote:Manu had a shocker in Cardiff 2013. Nothing to do with Roberts.

I've got no particular desire to see him rushed back. See how the next three games go before we face Wales.

Yeah, in the 2013 game Roberts put him on his arse and there wasn't a peep out of him for the rest of the game.


Seeing as he depends on actually getting the ball to be able to do any damage and a certain antipodean friend was pretty determind to make sure that seldom happened that evening its not so surprising.

They are both big powerful centers. They are both capable 'on their day' of having a big influence on the course of a game, and we are all going to say our own guy is the best and it just depends on what you want out of your player. Tuilagi 11 tries in 25 tests vs Roberts 10 tries in 76 tests does tell a story, but then Roberts is a better defender.

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Post by sittingringside Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:50 pm

As an attacking player Tuilagi is on a different planet to Roberts, but Roberts is a great defender and leader who's durability makes him a rock in that Wales side, so I guess I would take him based on careers.

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Post by yappysnap Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:08 pm

If Roberts was used like Tuilagi I think he could score a lot more too, don't forget he was once a fullback, and his running lines and hands for Quins have been great. It's just for Wales where he isn't allowed to pass or run at gaps.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:22 pm

yappysnap wrote:If Roberts was used like Tuilagi I think he could score a lot more too, don't forget he was once a fullback, and his running lines and hands for Quins have been great. It's just for Wales where he isn't allowed to pass or run at gaps.

Well Roberts has so rarely done it. Hes a big lump that can shift a bit, which means he is great for trucking it up and very hard to stop from short range. And yes if he's used right could be quite the weapon, but generally all he does is suck in defenders. He seldom has great numbers for anything really. He also has longevity (and a great deal of experience) which is worth a lot.

Tuilagi has that explosive acceleration that lets him make big holes out of little gaps. At least that was what we used to see. (Fastest acceleration in the England squad once upon a time) He has been more fragile than we'd like. If we are lucky he still has a decent career ahead.

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Post by yappysnap Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:50 pm

More fragile or more reckless? I often think a lot of bigger players get sloppy about technique and just rely on their mass to make tackles.

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Post by lostinwales Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:57 pm

yappysnap wrote:More fragile or more reckless? I often think a lot of bigger players get sloppy about technique and just rely on their mass to make tackles.

I could be wrong as per but if you think about the injuries Tuilagi has had they are not really down to collisions. He did have the shoulder injury on Lions duty but the other stuff has been mainly the groin (obviously) and hamstring problems. If the groin injury is right at least having that much time out may have helped any other underlying issues to fully heal.

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Post by Cowshot Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:58 pm

Well, he got through the full 83mins tonight and was one of the better things about a lackluster Tigers' performance. He even passed! Shocked EJ was in the stands. Hope he's given a few more weeks to get back into it - he's been out a long time.

All being well, I'd say the French game is the one to bring him back for.

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Post by Gwlad Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:31 am

Manu back and already making a huge impression. Wales will be bricking themselves.

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Post by jamesandimac Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:03 am

Englands current attacking structure is crying out for someone of Manu's skillset. Him at 13 running that inward line he does would either a.) provide some good go forward off first phase or b.) fix the defence for the back door pass to Farrell creating space for Nowell and Watson.

Don't get me wrong, Joseph is playing okay and he took his tries well on the weekend but the backline is missing a physical presence in attack.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:22 am

Nice performance. Give him the rest of the season, and if he continues to perform, then bring him into the squad. I don't think he is amongst the 30% fitter.

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Post by lostinwales Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:41 am

I have decided that the '30% fitter' line must just mean that they are now 30% faster at replying 'Sir Yes Sir' before beating up Haskell with soap bars in socks for all the penalties he gave away

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Post by thomh Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:52 am

Manu played pretty well last night but spilled the ball leading to the Quins try and looks a bit short of fitness / power. He always made ground - one carry led to the Tigers try - and there one very nice left-handed pass on Tigers' own line, but wasn't really bursting through tackles.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:18 am

I'd leave him out for two main reasons:

(1) He's just come back, and there's no reason to risk more injury by asking him to step straight into Test rugby, which everyone agrees is a faster tempo, and harder physical challenge than club competition.

(2) Tuilagi will likely go down injured again at least once during Jones' tenure, so the sooner he investigates other options beyond Ford/Farrell, the better. Jones may think that he's just unlucky that Slade is also out but he needs to learn that England coaches rarely have their top centre choices available.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:42 am

lostinwales wrote:I have decided that the '30% fitter' line must just mean that they are now 30% faster at replying 'Sir Yes Sir' before beating up Haskell with soap bars in socks for all the penalties he gave away
I think you are right. Under Lancaster they probably said it very slowly and softly.

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Post by DirtyRucker7 Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:01 pm

Chatting to Cockers the other day and he assured me mighty Manu will not be ready .

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:57 pm

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/14811421/manu-tuilagi-not-ready-england-return-leicester-tigers-chief-richard-cockerill

I didn't realise that Tuilagi was genuinely being considered for this tournament. It seems a bit mad.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:22 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/14811421/manu-tuilagi-not-ready-england-return-leicester-tigers-chief-richard-cockerill

I didn't realise that Tuilagi was genuinely being considered for this tournament. It seems a bit mad.

I saw an interview with Beeb and effie Jones mentioned Manu and 12th March.


Madness.

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Post by eirebilly Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:41 pm

Eddie Jones is not a dumb manager, he will not parachute Tuilagi into this England team after a long injury absence.

Ireland made that mistake so I cant see any reason why England would do the same, especially in such a big match that could decide England's chances of a GS.
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Post by lostinwales Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:27 pm

I think Jones likes there to be distractions to keep the media happy

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:06 pm

I wouldn't rule out Jones trying to get Tuilagi involved, much as I think it would be a bad idea.

Firstly, Jones wants to get up to speed on the players as quickly as possible, something he can do better with Manu in camp, rather than with Leicester.

Secondly, he is already fielding midfield which is probably no better than his third choice, so might think playing a 70/80% match fit Manu is worth doing if it lets him look at a second, or even first choice, combination.

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Post by nathan Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:13 pm

I think Manu being included in the English camp and perhaps coming on for the last 20 minutes is the most that should happen. It would allow him to get up to speed with what Eddie wants.

I think that's the most he should play.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:Eddie Jones is not a dumb manager, he will not parachute Tuilagi into this England team after a long injury absence.

Ireland made that mistake so I cant see any reason why England would do the same, especially in such a big match that could decide England's chances of a GS.

Who did Ireland make that mistake with?

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