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England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

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England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Empty England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

Post by LondonTiger Tue 23 Feb 2016, 11:12 am

First topic message reminder :

England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Englan10              England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Irelan10

ENGLAND vs  IRELAND

Date: Saturday 27th February 2016
Venue: Twickenham
Kick Off: 16:50 (GMT)
Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)
Asst Refs: Nigel Owens (WRU), Alexandre Ruiz (FFR)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (SARU)
TV Coverage: Live on ITV, RTE, FR2


Head to Head

Played - 119
Wins - 65/47
Draws - 7
Points - 1443/1037


Current Form

England:
W 40-9 v Italy
W 15-9 v Scotland
W 60-3 v Uruguay

Ireland:
L 9-10 v France
D 16-16 v wales
L 20-43 v Argentina


Recent Meetings

05/09/15 England 21 Ireland 13
01/03015 Ireland 19 England 9
22/02/14 England 13 Ireland 10
10/02/13 Ireland 6 England 12
17/03/12 England 30 Ireland 9



Teams

England
England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Queenelizabethii

1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 39 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 68 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 1 cap)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 12 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 45 caps)
7 James Haskell (Wasps, 64 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 23 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
10 George Ford (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 37 caps)
13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
15 Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 45 caps)
Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 5 caps)
17 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 30 caps)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 44 caps)
20 Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 2 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 56 caps)
22 Elliot Daly (Wasps, uncapped)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 20 caps)


Ireland
England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Michaeldhiggins

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 68
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 60
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 17
12. Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 47
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 58
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 44
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 27
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain 91
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 36
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 33
6. CJ Stander (Munster) 2
7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain 82

Replacements
16. Richard Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster) 14
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 56
18. Nathan White (Connacht) 10
19. Ultane Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 7
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster) 68
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 27
23. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 22


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 11:21 pm; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated with teams)

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Post by beshocked Fri 26 Feb 2016, 4:45 pm

scottrf to be fair I might be wrong. Itoje might not play well, Kruis might well have another poor day at lineout time. I am just hoping that they will play well because they have so far on balance.

It's not because they are Sarries, it's because I think they are the best options at the moment.

I think Brown is the best option at FB, either Care or Youngs at 9 with the other on the bench. I wanted to see Daly on the bench.

I know there's the belief I want to stuff the England side with Saracens players just because they play for that club. No - it's simply because I think they are the best choice.

I am not campaigning for a Fraser call up for example or a recall for Barritt or Wigglesworth.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 26 Feb 2016, 5:18 pm

beshocked wrote:
sensisball wrote:IMO Toner is probably the most improved front 5 forward in the 6N's over the last 5 or so years. When he first played scrum and lineout was all he did. Now he is effective in most facets of forward play. He tackles, carries and clears rucks effectively. He doesn't stand out because he doesn't have explosive power that blasts opponents out the way but he usually does enough to get the job done on his terms.

I haven't seen much of Itoje but it will be first start and if he struggles in the lineout then all the pressure will move onto Kruis ( as there is no real lineout specialist in the back row).

If Toner disrupts middle ball then England will struggle to get any back play going leading to loads of box kicking. If done badly this will play into Ireland's arms.

sensiball the thing is England can potentially strengthen the lineout by bringing on Lawes and putting Itoje to 6 later in the game.

England have relied too much on Kruis so far as the primary jumper so they might mix things up, Robshaw might be used more. I expect the professor of the lineout, Borthwick to do his homework.

Personally I think pairing Kruis-Itoje is good because this season they've worked well in tandem and compliment each other.

I've discussed a few times but I think that Borthwick is fairly clearly moving the line-out towards the Springbok model of throwing the majority of ball to one jumper in the middle.

Whether it's been Matfield, De Toit or De Jager for a long time now they have thrown 4/5 of their throws to one jumper with a near full line-out - one man usually drops to the scrum half position to make setting the maul slicker. The Boks occasionally make use of movement or cutting numbers but more often than not they just back themselves to get their best jumper up to the highest point they can and then expect their hooker to hit him with pin point timing and accuracy.

Movement is great as a mix up and throwing to the tail is a fantastic attacking option when things are going well. However both can also get messy if the slightest thing goes wrong and throwing to the tail is at the mercy of the weather.

Personally I like the simplicity of the SA line-out and I like that Borthwick is moving England that way. However it does place BIG pressure on that one jumper and the hooker. Against Scotland with the Gray brothers counter jumping it worked. Against Italy it didn't with Hartley fluffing a couple of early throws and Kruis then seeming to struggle to think on his feet when things didn't go to plan.

Hartley and Kruis will need to both have good days against Toner but if they do then it should be a very effective platform for the English pack to build from.

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 27 Feb 2016, 1:30 am

Indeed - the lineout battle should be an interesting sub-plot of the game tomorrow if a kicking frenzy ensues.
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Post by LondonTiger Sat 27 Feb 2016, 9:30 am

king_carlos wrote:
I've discussed a few times but I think that Borthwick is fairly clearly moving the line-out towards the Springbok model of throwing the majority of ball to one jumper in the middle.

the problem is that they mixed and matched lineout ideologies. SA (which Borthwick copied for ~Japan) throw to the same jumper, in the same place with only small shifts - just expect to perform the job better than the opposition.

England however saw Kruis shift position both fully in the lineout and significantly within his spot. they saw a lot of movement with dummy jumpers etc - which led to very confused lifters at times. We had some really complicated calls - yet still always threw to Kruis. therefore the opposition could ignore all the complications and just concentrate on getting up in front of Kruis.

Then add in that Hartley was struggling not to tug the throw left and the whole thing became a mess. My issue then with Kruis calling is that to compensate he called ever more complicated throws.

Al in all the lineout in the first half was poor and caller, thrower, jumper and lifters were all sub-par.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 4:25 pm

Seems I'm not the only one a little tired with Eddie Jones' mouth.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 4:39 pm

For goodness sake, can we skip all this pretentious nonsense and get on with the game?

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Post by Hoonercat Sat 27 Feb 2016, 4:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Seems I'm not the only one a little tired with Eddie Jones' mouth.

Oh the irony Shocked

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:16 pm

That scrum pen went the wrong way

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Post by David-Douglas Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:19 pm

Poor quality so far. Knock-ons a silly pens.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:21 pm

How on earth is that double movement?
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Post by lostinwales Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:21 pm

Well that should have been a scrum 5. Happy with no try as it was inconclusive, but Ireland were smashed to pieces


Last edited by lostinwales on Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:23 pm

Double movement?????

That was either a try or held I' afraid, bad call.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:23 pm

Has Poite been payed off or something?? Totally lost with some of these calls.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:25 pm

England the better side but getting let down by execution in the Ireland 22.

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Post by Shifty Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:26 pm

Nigel always has to get on the tv doesn't he? lol
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:29 pm

Why are we playing in the wrong side of the field again? This is ridiculous. Play for territory FIRST.

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:32 pm

Another good battle so far, Ireland's passing letting them down and another soft pen.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:32 pm

So poor. The decision making by Murray and Sexton is just awful.

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Post by Golden Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:33 pm

Cant see Ireland holding on if this continues

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Post by lostinwales Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:33 pm

I do think Ireland are looking increasingly beat up. Terrific defense plus England mistakes keeping them in but there is a long way to go

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:35 pm

Fantastic defence from Haskell, so aggressive.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:39 pm

That is called handling the ball on the ground. If you get away with it though...

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Post by Gwlad Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:39 pm

another dreadful game, not sure how long england have to be in possession before they actually do something with the ball.

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:39 pm

Heaslip has been poor this half

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:40 pm

We must have the most passive defence in world rugby. It is true that this must take a huge toll on the body and fitness of the players. They look absolutely beat and there is another half to go!

I can't believe I am saying this but Andy Farrell could not come quickly enough.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:40 pm

Great turnover from Itoje.

Ireland have been poor but our execution has really let us down, we should have a lot more points on the board.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:41 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Great turnover from Itoje.

Ireland have been poor but our execution has really let us down, we should have a lot more points on the board.

It was totally illegal. He literally picked it up and turned while lying on the ground.

I won't complain too much though, that double movement call was ridiculous.


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Post by David-Douglas Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:41 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Heaslip has been poor this half

I don't think anyone has covered themselves in glory. Really poor quality game - so many errors.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:43 pm

Poite has been having an odd game with his decisions...

If England were more clinical, Ireland would be behind by 20 at least. Simply being over powered. Billy Vunipola is having a superb game, a one man wrecking ball.
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Post by Gwlad Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:44 pm

I see England have gone back to blunt instrument rugby when they have surgical execution out wide.

What a waste of massive amounts of possession.

Ireland have been superb in defence and have looked dangerous ball in hand however their pack is losing the game

Once things open up i expect the Irish backs to show their class.

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Post by Fanster Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:45 pm

Strange defence tactic from Ireland, stop all linespeed and drift slowly....

I know England have been attacking wider channells thus far in the tournament, but to sacrifice the abbressive atmosphere up the middle of the park is asking for trouble.

The English forwards are making too many yards up the middle.

That said Irelands defence is in tact, and England are trying to force the issue, so maybe it's a masterstroke from Schmidt, and we'll see a gamechanger in the second half?

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Post by eirebilly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:46 pm

Is it just me or is everyone having troubles with this site today? Seems very slow.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:46 pm

Gwlad wrote:I see England have gone back to blunt instrument rugby when they have surgical execution out wide.

What a waste of massive amounts of possession.

Ireland have been superb in defence and have looked dangerous ball in hand however their pack is losing the game

Once things open up i expect the Irish backs to show their class.

I'm not sure the Irish backs will have anything left in the tank to show anything!

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:46 pm

eirebilly wrote:Is it just me or is everyone having troubles with this site today? Seems very slow.

Yes, a lot of people have been complaining about it.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:48 pm

Ah man...what a frustrating game!

England showing a total lack of ability to make chances from huge possession.

And HOW many penalties!!!

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Post by lostinwales Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:51 pm

What a welcome to test rugby for McCloskey. Nice break at the end but every other time he has had the ball he has had a couple of English defenders at the same time.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:54 pm

Just woke up in time for the second half sadly, the first half put me to sleep. I wish I could sleep through the full 80.

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Post by Fanster Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:54 pm

lostinwales wrote:What a welcome to test rugby for McCloskey. Nice break at the end but every other time he has had the ball he has had a couple of English defenders at the same time.

England have certainly done their homework, he's not catching them out...

Seriously he's had a baptism of fire, dropped balls, overrun passes, a little awkward in the D line and a little frantic in possession.

Similar game to last night, one clearly dominant team, don't have the points they deserve yet, but should run clear last 15, unless Ireland can make a big change

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Post by eirebilly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:54 pm

I am a little confused as to why Ireland want to play attacking rugby in their own 22...

I think that McCloskey has done very well for his debut against England at Twickenham, him and Henshaw look decent together.

CJ, although playing well, has got on the bad side of Poite and being penalised a lot. Needs to tighten up a bit there.

So much pressure has been placed on Ireland (largely due to their own passive defence) and I cant see them holding out for much longer. The subs wont have as big an impact as the English ones. Seems to me that Irelands only hope is a little bit of individual magic.

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 5:59 pm

Must be a yellow

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Just woke up in time for the second half sadly, the first half put me to sleep. I wish I could sleep through the full 80.

We all got enough sleeping watching that pile last night. thumbsup

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:01 pm

HOW MANY FECKIN PENALTIES!!!!!!!

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:01 pm

Good try, game on

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:02 pm

For gods sake......

HOW can we be behind in this game!!!!!!

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Post by Shifty Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

Yes, go Ireland!!!!
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England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Empty Re: England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

Post by Gwlad Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

Come On you Irish!!!!!!!!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

Poite is having an absolute mare. Good try from Ireland though,

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:04 pm

This looks like rope a dope

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Post by Gwlad Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:04 pm

As i predicted the game is opening up, England have been roper doped in the first half.

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England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3 - Page 4 Empty Re: England v Ireland; Six Nations Round 3

Post by David-Douglas Sat 27 Feb 2016, 6:05 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Poite is having an absolute mare.

In what way? I thought he'd done ok so far.

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