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Ireland Squad Discussion

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Post by Notch Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continuing on from Ireland Squad Announcement Thread.
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Post by toml Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:I was wondering what the consensus is on a Dillane/Henderson 2nd row. Dillane looked a dynamic carrier in the loose against Leinster and with Henderson would give you plenty of options against the Boks. Ryan would be the bench 2nd row as Toner is not an impact sub.

As for your 10 and 3 situation going forward, is Madigan or Moore more important with both abroad? I like what Steenson is btw but Madigan is a more versatile talent to have in the squad.

Is Keatley or a Connacht 10 good enough to be a 3rd fly half?

Neither Dillane or Henderson have the experience to call the lineout, so one of Toner or Ryan will have to start.

Not a chance that Steenson will get a call up - he has been out of the system for far too long. This is Jackson's big chance, though I think he should really have gotten more time than he has. At least the Boks don't have Pienaar playing who would know all his strengths and weaknesses.

Keatley just needs to go away and get his head right. The Connacht 10 has played for the USA.

I could imagine them both starting, with both Dillane and Henderson on the bench

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Sin é wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:I was wondering what the consensus is on a Dillane/Henderson 2nd row. Dillane looked a dynamic carrier in the loose against Leinster and with Henderson would give you plenty of options against the Boks. Ryan would be the bench 2nd row as Toner is not an impact sub.

As for your 10 and 3 situation going forward, is Madigan or Moore more important with both abroad? I like what Steenson is btw but Madigan is a more versatile talent to have in the squad.

Is Keatley or a Connacht 10 good enough to be a 3rd fly half?

Neither Dillane or Henderson have the experience to call the lineout, so one of Toner or Ryan will have to start.

Not a chance that Steenson will get a call up - he has been out of the system for far too long. This is Jackson's big chance, though I think he should really have gotten more time than he has. At least the Boks don't have Pienaar playing who would know all his strengths and weaknesses.

Keatley just needs to go away and get his head right. The Connacht 10 has played for the USA.

Was thinking the one who ruptured his spleen going down that slide in the UAE?

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Notch wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sexton was getting in when he went overseas but then again he is the golden child

And for good reason. No other Irish 10 came close to his level when he decided to move- Madigan is already behind Jackson, never mind Sexton.

The other rumours flying about are that the Kearney brothers are both going to be ruled out. If Rob was carrying an injury that puts his recent performances into perspective because he hasn't looked up to it at all. But if Zebo isn't going to travel, Fitzgerald is out and both Kearneys are out, then we'll have little choice but to drop Payne or Henshaw back to 15 surely- either that or start someone like O'Hallornan. I would say Luke Marshall is in a good position to come into the midfield if Jackson is selected, they gel well together.

Probably looking at;

9. Murray
10. Jackson
11. Earls
12. Henshaw
13. Marshall
14. Trimble
15. Payne

Would it not make a lot more sense for Henshaw and Marshall to swap places?

Henshaw has been playing 12 for Ireland and Marshalls been 13 for Ulster this season.

Isn't Marshall left footed too?

Yet Henshaw is a better player in the 13 shirt and Marshall is a better player in the 12 shirt. Marshall has been playing 13 for Ulster as there is an abundance of talent at 12 and he has the versatility to play there. It would seem pointless to play both in their weaker positions in this instance.

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Post by marty2086 Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:57 pm

Marshalls best form in recent years has been at 13 not 12, now he was misused at 12 for a long time but you can't base his best position on form from 4 years ago

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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:00 pm

I think Marshall has been a revelation at 13, and is Ulsters best in that position.

Reading that Schmidt is going to play Payne at 13, Marshall at 12 with Henshaw at FB.

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Post by toml Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:02 pm

Munchkin wrote:I think Marshall has been a revelation at 13.

Reading that Schmidt is going to play Payne at 13, Marshall at 12 with Henshaw at FB.

Ah sure why not

Marshall has been excellent at 13
Henshaw has been excellent at 13
Payne has been excellent at 15
=
Lets play Payne at 13

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Post by Notch Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:10 pm

It would make sense in that Henshaw has more pace than Marshall, but it wouldn't make sense to disrupt the midfield more than necessary and Henshaw knows the role of 12 in this Irish team inside out at this stage. Marshall has now been playing 13 all season so why ask him to re-adapt to inside centre at short notice? If Henshaw does move out to 13 I would pick Olding at 12 not Marshall. I feel that Marshall has greatly benefited from the additional time and space he has on the ball at 13, and he's also hugely benefited from being able to run some gorgeous lines from deep for Ulster with a 10 and a 12 who are very much right up on the gain line. I would see his role in this team as being similar. I think Marshall would be even more wasted at 12 than Henshaw is tbh.

Part of me is tempted to keep Payne at 13 to hold the centres together and drop Henshaw back to fullback. With Marshall replacing Payne we lose quite a lot from that centre partnership in terms of organisation and defence so I wouldn't be adverse to having Payne continue in the centre and Henshaw at 15.

I do still firmly believe that centre is Paynes best position, and thats where he'd be starting for Ulster if not for our need to get as many of our best players into the team as possible.
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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:14 pm

toml wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I think Marshall has been a revelation at 13.

Reading that Schmidt is going to play Payne at 13, Marshall at 12 with Henshaw at FB.

Ah sure why not

Marshall has been excellent at 13
Henshaw has been excellent at 13
Payne has been excellent at 15
=
Lets play Payne at 13

Ah, when you put it like that, it makes perfect sense Erm

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:29 pm

Makes the failure to pick McCloskey even worse if Marshall is at 12.

Surprised Ireland did not do more to keep Te'o in Ireland but looking at the Irish options at the next 6N (Aki, McCloskey, Ringrose, Marshall, Henshaw, Payne and Olding), I guess they will survive

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Post by carpet baboon Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:37 pm

Do we think this is the end of rob Kearney s international career?
If so let's take a moment to remember that for a few years he was not only very handsome but one of the best fullbacks in the world.


Than you Rob

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Post by Notch Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:37 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Makes the failure to pick McCloskey even worse if Marshall is at 12.  

While I don't regard Marshall as being best utilised at 12, I would view him as a better all-round player than McCloskey and a player who is in better form provincially as well- although that doesn't matter so much to selection these days.

carpet baboon wrote:Do we think this is the end of rob Kearney s international career?

I just can't see that happening yet. I'm hoping Henshaw will do well at 15 but believe his long-term future is in the centre. With him and Payne being used at centre the only other choices next season besides Kearney are Zebo and O'Hallornan.

Maybe O'Hallornan will breakthrough onto the test stage and start the conversation about Kearneys future in the autumn, maybe Henshaw will drop back to full back long term, but I don't think at this stage either is likely so I believe Kearney will hold onto the shirt for at least another couple of years.


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Post by theslosty Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:38 pm

Joe namechecked McCloskey as carrying a niggle or two.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:37 pm

marty2086 wrote:Marshalls best form in recent years has been at 13 not 12, now he was misused at 12 for a long time but you can't base his best position on form from 4 years ago

His best form has been this season regardless of position. He has still played at 12 a few times for Ulster this season and I remember one in particular where he had his best game yet, in my opinion.

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Post by marty2086 Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:13 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Marshalls best form in recent years has been at 13 not 12, now he was misused at 12 for a long time but you can't base his best position on form from 4 years ago

His best form has been this season regardless of position. He has still played at 12 a few times for Ulster this season and I remember one in particular where he had his best game yet, in my opinion.

Not sure which game that was but I remember one or two at 12 I almost he was on the pitch

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Post by eirebilly Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:27 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Do we think this is the end of rob Kearney s international career?
If so let's take a moment to remember that for a few years he was not only very handsome but one of the best fullbacks in the world.


Than you Rob

I think it may be. He has been one of the best 15's Ireland have produced. I do hope that it is not the end of his Irish career though as when on form, he is still up there with the best.
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Post by rodders Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:45 pm

eirebilly wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Do we think this is the end of rob Kearney s international career?
If so let's take a moment to remember that for a few years he was not only very handsome but one of the best fullbacks in the world.


Than you Rob

I think it may be. He has been one of the best 15's Ireland have produced. I do hope that it is not the end of his Irish career though as when on form, he is still up there with the best.

He was no Simon Mason, that's for sure.
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Post by SecretFly Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:45 pm

Rob's form is too uneven. Even he would probably admit that. Plus............. his strongest point was that ability to chase after a ball, rise in the air, almost wait there and capture it confidently. That whole part of his game drained away year by year and now.................. well, what player actually have we now that can compete with even the Welsh in consistency terms in catching high balls and generating go-forward with it?

Rob was one of the very best at it but confidence seems drained from him.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:Rob's form is too uneven.  Even he would probably admit that.  Plus............. his strongest point was that ability to chase after a ball, rise in the air, almost wait there and capture it confidently.  That whole part of his game drained away year by year and now.................. well, what player actually have we now that can compete with even the Welsh in consistency terms in catching high balls and generating go-forward with it?

Rob was one of the very best at it but confidence seems drained from him.

Tiernan O'Halloran is much better than him. So is Andrew Conway. Kearney's light dies a few years ago, sputtering into life briefly in the 2009 Grand Slam, and then slowly flickered out. He is no more.

Olding and Earls in the Centre for me. Marshall on the wing and Henshaw at fullback.

Dump the Payne, Stander, Reidy types and get some respectable Irish players into the squad.
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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:52 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Rob's form is too uneven.  Even he would probably admit that.  Plus............. his strongest point was that ability to chase after a ball, rise in the air, almost wait there and capture it confidently.  That whole part of his game drained away year by year and now.................. well, what player actually have we now that can compete with even the Welsh in consistency terms in catching high balls and generating go-forward with it?

Rob was one of the very best at it but confidence seems drained from him.

Tiernan O'Halloran is much better than him.  So is Andrew Conway.   Kearney's light dies a few years ago, sputtering into life briefly in the 2009 Grand Slam, and then slowly flickered out.   He is no more.

Olding and Earls in the Centre for me.   Marshall on the wing and Henshaw at fullback.    

Dump the Payne, Stander, Reidy types and get some respectable Irish players into the squad.

They would get beaten up.

McCloskey and Marshall for me (being totally objective, of course angel ), but McCloskey is carrying a few knocks, so not included.

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Post by SecretFly Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:55 pm

It's so bizarre the way things seem to have fallen into place on the old injury front..... Whistle

Joe: "Thanks for coming lads..... em...I'll get straight to it.  I know, I know, I'm at fault, I'm the one that picked yis and wanted yis.... but I'm getting fierce f**kin' aggro from the f**kin' meejah and them c**ts on 606! [He does talk like that now - in private - the New Zealand twang is just for publicity these days]  Anyway, I'm going to have to give in to the bastards and drop all f**kin' three of yis.  No hard feelings and I'll say you've had a bit of an operation, Sexy; I'll say you picked up a niggle, Daverage - and you Rob *tears*...you, I'll pretend that you're just f**ked"

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Post by Guest Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's so bizarre the way things seem to have fallen into place on the old injury front..... Whistle

Joe: "Thanks for coming lads..... em...I'll get straight to it.  I know, I know, I'm at fault, I'm the one that picked yis and wanted yis.... but I'm getting fierce f**kin' aggro from the f**kin' meejah and them c**ts on 606! [He does talk like that now - in private - the New Zealand twang is just for publicity these days]  Anyway, I'm going to have to give in to the bastards and drop all f**kin' three of yis.  No hard feelings and I'll say you've had a bit of an operation, Sexy; I'll say you picked up a niggle, Daverage - and you Rob *tears*...you, I'll pretend that you're just f**ked"

A pretty good theory. I have to admit it does seem odd that the excluded players, who many were moaning about, are now included in place of those who most were moaning about. An incredible coincidence ....

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Post by Notch Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:09 pm

Who else is there? Other than McFadden that is.
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Post by Don Alfonso Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:57 pm

Joe should really be calling Rory Scholes up - if he's going before the next RWC, he needs to get as many chances as possible at his favourite pastime -Ulster backs-baiting. It goes -

1) Call up Ulster youngster enforced by injury (Marshall vs Oz, Gilroy vs Wales, McCloskey vs England)
2) Watch them have a decent, if not fantastic game
3) Criticise them in the press (Gilroy may have escaped this?)
3) Ignore them for at least a year.

It's like surfing or train-spotting for Joe.

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Post by Don Alfonso Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:59 pm

Sorry. Just a bit of 100% accurate mischief.

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Post by marty2086 Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:06 pm

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's so bizarre the way things seem to have fallen into place on the old injury front..... Whistle

Joe: "Thanks for coming lads..... em...I'll get straight to it.  I know, I know, I'm at fault, I'm the one that picked yis and wanted yis.... but I'm getting fierce f**kin' aggro from the f**kin' meejah and them c**ts on 606! [He does talk like that now - in private - the New Zealand twang is just for publicity these days]  Anyway, I'm going to have to give in to the bastards and drop all f**kin' three of yis.  No hard feelings and I'll say you've had a bit of an operation, Sexy; I'll say you picked up a niggle, Daverage - and you Rob *tears*...you, I'll pretend that you're just f**ked"

A pretty good theory. I have to admit it does seem odd that the excluded players, who many were moaning about, are now included in place of those who most were moaning about. An incredible coincidence ....

Damn those voodoo dolls do work! Ill have to make a few Springbok ones now Whistle

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Post by SecretFly Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:15 pm

LONNNNNNGGGGGG pins is what we want. Make 'em boys suffer.

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Post by rodders Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:20 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Dump the Payne, Stander, Reidy types and get some respectable Irish players into the squad.

Surely that is an oxy-moron.
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Post by Don Alfonso Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:52 am

uh-oh.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/no-10-shirt-is-up-for-grabs-joe-schmidt-tells-paddy-jackson-and-ian-madigan-34769000.html


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Post by Notch Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:11 am

Well, we know that Schmidt pretty much bases all his selection calls on how players train for him. Once you're in the squad doing well in training outweighs any amount of Pro12 form. I think he views the Pro12 as simply not being a high enough level of rugby for players form to matter that much when it comes to selection.

I would like to think he will back the guy who is staying in Irish Rugby if it is close call. I'd be shocked if he goes for Madigan. Makes some kind of sense Madigan might shade Jackson as a bench player, but the only areas where Madigan has any kind of edge is place kicking and off-the-cuff broken play. Lately Jackson has been very confident and accurate with his kicks at goal and you'd think that any kind of improvisation or flair Madigan brings is best employed off the bench. And while Madigan has the occasional moment of brilliance, Jackson is many times the player Madigan is when it comes to releasing a back line and bringing the players around him into the game. A much less selfish, perceptive footballer.
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Post by eirebilly Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:12 am

Madigan will get the nod now that Sexton is out, big question is if Paddy makes the match day squad...
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:37 am

Don Alfonso wrote:uh-oh.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/no-10-shirt-is-up-for-grabs-joe-schmidt-tells-paddy-jackson-and-ian-madigan-34769000.html


picard

And behold - his brave knights shall come to defend his majesty. Wink

Seriously though - he may not consider the Pro12 to be a high enough level, but it is still a significant step up from throwing the ball in the training yard. Not to mention the fact that Madigan has been dire even at that level. No, I'm not sure that explanation holds any weight.

To select Madigan to start in this game would be an embarrassing decision. Laughable.

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Post by eirebilly Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:47 am

Its not just the Pro-12 level, Paddy has also played at European level and performed very well there, lets not forget that.

If Madigan is to be selected over him then serious questions will have to be asked about Schmidt's man management skills.
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Post by Notch Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:17 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

And behold - his brave knights shall come to defend his majesty. Wink

Seriously though - he may not consider the Pro12 to be a high enough level, but it is still a significant step up from throwing the ball in the training yard. Not to mention the fact that Madigan has been dire even at that level. No, I'm not sure that explanation holds any weight.

To select Madigan to start in this game would be an embarrassing decision. Laughable.

I'm sorry, have you somehow interpreted my post as disagreeing with you or...?
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Post by Notch Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:22 pm

I didn't say that it's justified in this instance, I said that Schmidt doesn't pick on provincial form which we all have been saying for months, both his defenders and detractors. It's one of the things he gets criticised the most for! And I said he should pick Jackson and I said I would be shocked if he doesn't.

Have absolutely no idea what I've said in there you could disagree with or find controversial.
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Post by Golden Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:23 pm

Maybe we should wait and see who he actually picks before crucifying him for saying he wants to see how they train.

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Post by Notch Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:27 pm

Golden wrote:Maybe we should wait and see who he actually picks before crucifying him for saying he wants to see how they train.

If he said that players don't have the chance to make the team based on training well it would be 'non-Leinster squad players stitched up by conservative Schmidt'... O'Sullivan used to get hammered on the old forum for having his 15 set in stone and being immune to any evidence he should change it. Now Schmidt is getting hammered for saying he's keeping his options open. I'll be unbelievably disappointed if he goes with Madigan but it seems like people have really gone off the deep end.

Personally expecting both 10s to get lots of game time, and Jackson to start, but we'll see Madigan a lot off the bench. Hoping Jackson starts and is given 70/80 minutes but expecting him to get more like 50/60 minutes before Madigan comes on.


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Post by Guest Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:30 pm

I would be amazed if Jackson doesn't start. Schmidt, like any good coach, should be looking at how they do in training and, to keep them competitive, he's unlikely to call who starts before then.

Still, if he picks Madigan ahead of Jackson, I WILL BE OUTRAGED! mad

One criticism I have though, is that Schmidt didn't give Jackson a game during the 6N's. I made the point then that it doesn't make sense not to start Jackson in one of those games, and then throw him into a game against SA. Now Sexton is injured, and it's not a shock, and we have to rely on Jackson, with no game time, to step up against a very good side away from home.


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Post by rodders Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:38 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:uh-oh.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/no-10-shirt-is-up-for-grabs-joe-schmidt-tells-paddy-jackson-and-ian-madigan-34769000.html


picard

And behold - his brave knights shall come to defend his majesty. Wink

Seriously though - he may not consider the Pro12 to be a high enough level, but it is still a significant step up from throwing the ball in the training yard. Not to mention the fact that Madigan has been dire even at that level. No, I'm not sure that explanation holds any weight.

To select Madigan to start in this game would be an embarrassing decision. Laughable.

I'm not overly surprised to be honest, given Schmidt's approach to selection to date.

The only thing I'd say is that clearly there are certain 'work on's' that Schmidt has for certain players and even if we can't see it then we have to presume there are some flaws he sees in analysis and obviously he is not going to disclose this publicly.

I hope Paddy gets his chance, for me he is clearly the better 10 than Madigan but I suppose the main thing is the team picked does the job, even if it's not the one people want or expect.
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Post by rapidsnowman Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:44 pm

Joe's quotes in the article:
"Paddy and Ian have shared the time 50/50 in training, we actually haven't made any decisions at all," revealed Schmidt.

"The big advantage for Paddy is his form and regular game-time at the end of the season as opposed to Ian, who hasn't had that opportunity, but he's trained incredibly well in these two trainings that we've done.
"Those are the decisions that we'll make at the latest by Thursday, we'll try to give the 10 particularly an indication by Tuesday so that they get enough time in the saddle to really lead guys around.

"If it is Jacko it's a real opportunity for him to fill those big boots, that big jersey, but also to be himself."



I think it is clear that Paddy is in the driving seat without actually saying 'Paddy will start'.

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Post by SecretFly Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:12 pm

I think Joe will be trying to win games...for his own ego as much as anything else.  Therefore, he'll be inevitably using his own personal brain cells to work out what he personally feels is the best side with the best balance to play the game he wants them to play...which he hopes will win once, twice or three times.

If Jackson is the man he sees as the man for the role, Jackson will appear.

Madigan to come on then in the second half for the glory scores to seal the games .... Cool  Whistle  OK Wink

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Post by marty2086 Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:Madigan to come on then in the second half for the glory scores to seal the games .... Cool  Whistle  OK Wink

The way Madigan passes at times, you have to wonder which side the glory score will be for Whistle

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Post by SecretFly Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:38 pm

That's the art of genius marty Wink You never do quite know. But it's fun for a dodgy heart trying to work out which it might be in a tight game

........ tick, tock................. tictoctictoc...................tick, tick_______________________________________________________.

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Post by George Carlin Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:50 pm

Here you are you lazy bunch of gobshoites:
https://www.606v2.com/t63297-south-africa-v-ireland-11-june
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Post by SecretFly Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:01 pm

I was wondering when you'd get round to it George.... *yawn*...slipping up, my Friend.... slipping up....

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Post by George Carlin Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:I was wondering when you'd get round to it George.... *yawn*...slipping up, my Friend.... slipping up....
Ireland Squad Discussion - Page 12 Worf_910
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Post by Pete330v2 Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:08 pm

We always rely on you George Smile

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:20 pm

Notch wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:

And behold - his brave knights shall come to defend his majesty. Wink

Seriously though - he may not consider the Pro12 to be a high enough level, but it is still a significant step up from throwing the ball in the training yard. Not to mention the fact that Madigan has been dire even at that level. No, I'm not sure that explanation holds any weight.

To select Madigan to start in this game would be an embarrassing decision. Laughable.

I'm sorry, have you somehow interpreted my post as disagreeing with you or...?

I was only responding to you with the second paragraph (about the Pro12). The opening tongue-in-cheek comment was pre-emptively intended towards some of the Leinster fans.

I disagree with the notion that Schmidt would value the limited training sessions higher than a year of Pro12 rugby. I'm not suggesting that is what you believe but it is a criticism against Schmidt if he were to ignore an entire season of professional rugby and select players based on their training ground prowess.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:27 pm

George Carlin wrote:Here you are you lazy bunch of gobshoites:
https://www.606v2.com/t63297-south-africa-v-ireland-11-june

Leave us alone George - we would rather speculate about hypothetical situations and Schmidt's crappy selection policies than on the actual game itself. Whistle

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:29 pm

rodders wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:uh-oh.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/no-10-shirt-is-up-for-grabs-joe-schmidt-tells-paddy-jackson-and-ian-madigan-34769000.html


picard

And behold - his brave knights shall come to defend his majesty. Wink

Seriously though - he may not consider the Pro12 to be a high enough level, but it is still a significant step up from throwing the ball in the training yard. Not to mention the fact that Madigan has been dire even at that level. No, I'm not sure that explanation holds any weight.

To select Madigan to start in this game would be an embarrassing decision. Laughable.

I'm not overly surprised to be honest, given Schmidt's approach to selection to date.

The only thing I'd say is that clearly there are certain 'work on's' that Schmidt has for certain players and even if we can't see it then we have to presume there are some flaws he sees in analysis and obviously he is not going to disclose this publicly.

I hope Paddy gets his chance, for me he is clearly the better 10 than Madigan but I suppose the main thing is the team picked does the job, even if it's not the one people want or expect.

But that is the point - Madigan has about a million things to work on before he should be considered to start at 10 for Ireland. He has been seriously poor this year and at times a liability. Jackson may have some things to work on (although I can't think of any particular area of his game that could be described as weak) but he is by far the better 10.

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Post by SecretFly Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:29 pm

The coach has been around...he's been seen, at games.  He won't be ignoring anything.  

But now it's up to the players.  They're on his time now - time for them to prove to him "I'm the guy you want".  We've been through this before with Zebo.  

Many observers thought Zebo did enough with Munster to be getting a shot...  many others agreed with Joe's reasons for keeping Zebo on the edge of things until he proved he wanted to do enough in Ireland camp training grounds to show he was worth the shirt.  
I don't believe Jackson is the same character as Zebo (who is his own character and a grand one at that) - I believe Jackson deserves a good shot at this tour... quality time.  But he'll have to be convincing Schmidt behind the scenes too - on those training pitches.

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