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Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 15 Feb 2016, 1:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

Kruis and Joseph were both poor in the first half. Kruis's tactics when calling the lineouts were shockingly bad. Hartley got away with two squint throws at the start, but was then pinged for a crooked one and saw one pinched. All four Kruis called to himself. After that the calls got more and more complicated, involving a lit of movement and switching of positions - yet every time he kept calling to himself, thus easy to defend and predict.

I am torn on Joseph. Until he made the interception he had been really poor, but that was fantastic play - as was his finish for the 3rd try. so strangely I woul dnot say he was the best player - but with 3 key moments he was MotM i guess.

Youngs did ok, for me 6/10 - average - though having checked about a Dozen reviews now he got one 6, two 8s (crazy) and the rest 7s. One journo even stated he was clearly Englands best player in the first half. Cannot agree - but a sign that we all see things differently.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:53 am

no 7 & 1/2 do you not think that Itoje helped answer his critics with a decent start vs Ireland? Of course there's more work to do but it's a good foundation to work off.

Why strip away the foundation?

It builds a consistent squad, a strong 30+.

Cumbrian Launchbury has shown the heights? When in the last year?

If you've got one player in form and one whose not fully fit - then why not pick the one in form?

You talk about continuity yet want to drop Itoje.... Launchbury hasn't played much in the 6 nations so far.

Partnering Kruis-Itoje is continuity. Not chopping and changing......

You say Itoje will get there... Itoje will only get there if you keep picking him when he's playing well.

It's great to drop a player when they've played well.

I advocate starting Clifford with Robshaw in the backrow as I personally think it's easier to play with a fellow club mate due to the understanding.

Sometimes at international level an issue can be a lack of familiarity but if you have that link with a team mate it makes the transition easier in my opinion.

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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:56 am

Just reading bbc sport that Eddie Jones may bring in Manu Tualgi on the bench for the Wales game.

Is this is true what happens to Eliot Dailey? does he drop out of the 23 all together. Or will  Alex Goode  be the sacrifisal lamb?

I personly would not bring Manu in to this years 6ns. I would leave him at lecester to continue his fitness.

Bring him on the summer tour by all means. But don't bring him in just because he as played one game for eighty minutes.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:59 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Just reading bbc sport that Eddie Jones may bring in Manu Tualgi on the bench for the Wales game.

Is this is true what happens to Eliot Dailey? does he drop out of the 23 all together. Or will  Alex Goode  be the sacrifisal lamb?

I personly would not bring Manu in to this years 6ns. I would leave him at lecester to continue his fitness.

Bring him on the summer tour by all means. But don't bring him in just because he as played one game for eighty minutes.

Said this elsewhere but if he does bring in Manu then it should be Goode who goes. There is enough cover with Daly to be able to deal with an early injury so that Manu can be strictly an impact sub. But then I am in the 'why on earth is Goode in there in the first place' group.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:02 pm

I'm not sure Itoje has critics for a start. I keep coming back to if he's fit you pick your best lock for a game as big as this. Itoje is a very good player but it's currently as easy choice for me if it's between those 2. We would never build a consistent squad if we chased form players all the time.

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Post by TrailApe Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:04 pm

You gotta fine coming!

naah - my pooch is trained to excrete in bushes - his deposits will never be found - unless you are a purvey bush lurker, which in that case you deserve it! Rolling Eyes
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Post by Cumbrian Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:23 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 do you not think that Itoje helped answer his critics with a decent start vs Ireland? Of course there's more work to do but it's a good foundation to work off.

Why strip away the foundation?

It builds a consistent squad, a strong 30+.

Cumbrian Launchbury has shown the heights? When in the last year?

Did you miss the bit where I spoke about viewing players in the context of their careers rather than the last three games?  Launchbury has spent a lot of this year injured.  He is still a very good player and if he is fit is one of the first names on the team sheet.

If you've got one player in form and one whose not fully fit - then why not pick the one in form?

You're assuming that he isn't fully fit.  Just because he wasn't fit in the previous games doesn't mean he will be crocked for this one. I would assume that if Launchbury is picked, he will be fit.  Why pick Launchbury? Big match experience, proven track record, the fact that Launchbury has proven that he is international quality in more than one match.

You talk about continuity yet want to drop Itoje.... Launchbury hasn't played much in the 6 nations so far.

Nobody has played much in the second row together in this 6N (there have been three different starting partnerships) Continuity over one match is going to make much difference here or there on this basis.  The fact is I believe a fully fit Launchbury will be starting lock for the foreseeable future and continuity will come between him and Kruis


Partnering Kruis-Itoje is continuity. Not chopping and changing......

You say Itoje will get there... Itoje will only get there if you keep picking him when he's playing well.

The bloke is a 21 year old lock forward, it is not like he isn't going to get chances is it?  I wouldn't say there are many international forwards out there who got picked at 21 and never missed another match, benching for the Wales game is hardly going to wreck his long term development...

It's great to drop a player when they've played well.

It's great to overlook a player who has consistently shown that he is international class because he has been sick/injured in the last three games...


I advocate starting Clifford with Robshaw in the backrow as I personally think it's easier to play with a fellow club mate due to the understanding.


Sometimes at international level an issue can be a lack of familiarity but if you have that link with a team mate it makes the transition easier in my opinion.

I'd probably agree with that, but I don't think it is a defining factor in player selection.


Last edited by Cumbrian on Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:24 pm

lostinwales who goes to wing/full back?

England do seem to lack an Austin Healey or Mike Catt utility bench man.

no 7 & 1/2 best is a subjective word. Best at what for example.

It's about trust. There were those who doubted Kruis and Itoje could handle the mighty Devin Toner.

Picking Launchbury is a risk itself, there is no guarantee he'll put in a good performance.

Eddie Jones picked him vs Scotland that didn't work, want to start him vs Ireland but Launchbury's replacement played well.

So far Launchbury hasn't exactly really put down a marker.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:28 pm

beshocked wrote:lostinwales who goes to wing/full back?

England do seem to lack an Austin Healey or Mike Catt utility bench man.

no 7 & 1/2 best is a subjective word. Best at what for example.

It's about trust. There were those who doubted Kruis and Itoje could handle the mighty  Devin Toner.

Picking Launchbury is a risk itself, there is no guarantee he'll put in a good performance.

Eddie Jones picked him vs Scotland that didn't work, want to start him vs Ireland but Launchbury's replacement played well.

So far Launchbury hasn't exactly really put down a marker.

Surely you could level that at any player at any time though? Are you guaranteeing that Maro will put in a good performance?
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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:44 pm

beshocked wrote:

Plus England need to develop another 8.

Well as Jones has described Clifford as the new Rodney So'oailo maybe the new No.8 has already been identified?

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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:56 pm

lostinwales

I am in the why on earth is Goode in there in the first place group.


Yes me Too.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 1:02 pm

Toner is a threat at the lineout in particular that's true don't know why you need be sarcastic. Some were worried about our hooker in that scenario also. Best is subjective yes, but Launchbury is proven, if he's fit it would be madness not to choose him. Our best lock. What did Launchbury do to warrant being dropped?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 1:10 pm

beshocked, are we really saying that someone so established in the team can be out after 2-3 games. Should there be more trust in the guys in the team?

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Mar 2016, 1:50 pm

beshocked wrote:lostinwales who goes to wing/full back?

England do seem to lack an Austin Healey or Mike Catt utility bench man.

Presuming this is about Daly or Goode on the bench if Manu is picked.

If Daly was there and a wing went down then presumably Joseph would shift out with Daly taking the 13 spot given Jones has adamantly stated that Manu is a 12. If Brown were injured then Watson or Nowell (more likely Watson after his high ball efforts against Ireland and game time there for Bath) would shift to 15, then the same as before with Joseph to wing and Daly to 13.

If a wing were injured with Goode and Manu on the bench then I'd hope that it would again be Joseph shifting to wing with Manu at 13 rather than Brown being moved out of position. He's been found out there already, we don't need to watch again under a new coach!

If it's a straight choice between Daly or Goode then I'd go for the former as I think he offers more impact from the bench. Either way an injury to a winger would require a reshuffle though.

That said I think the idea that Manu might be on the bench when Jones himself has said he's only fit for 20 minutes international game time is pretty idiotic. If someone isn't fit enough for 80 minutes of international rugby then they shouldn't be anywhere near the match day 23. Easing back to fitness should always be done for a players club, not thrown into a crunch 6 Nations game.

There's a reason that guys who are consistently rushed back to international rugby are usually injured again soon after - Corbs, Manu, Warburton, Bowe... As a big fan of Mark Bennett I'm very worried he might head the same way.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 08 Mar 2016, 1:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:
beshocked wrote:lostinwales who goes to wing/full back?

England do seem to lack an Austin Healey or Mike Catt utility bench man.

Presuming this is about Daly or Goode on the bench if Manu is picked.

If Daly was there and a wing went down then presumably Joseph would shift out with Daly taking the 13 spot given Jones has adamantly stated that Manu is a 12. If Brown were injured then Watson or Nowell (more likely Watson after his high ball efforts against Ireland and game time there for Bath) would shift to 15, then the same as before with Joseph to wing and Daly to 13.

If a wing were injured with Goode and Manu on the bench then I'd hope that it would again be Joseph shifting to wing with Manu at 13 rather than Brown being moved out of position. He's been found out there already, we don't need to watch again under a new coach!

If it's a straight choice between Daly or Goode then I'd go for the former as I think he offers more impact from the bench. Either way an injury to a winger would require a reshuffle though.

That said I think the idea that Manu might be on the bench when Jones himself has said he's only fit for 20 minutes international game time is pretty idiotic. If someone isn't fit enough for 80 minutes of international rugby then they shouldn't be anywhere near the match day 23. Easing back to fitness should always be done for a players club, not thrown into a crunch 6 Nations game.

There's a reason that guys who are consistently rushed back to international rugby are usually injured again soon after - Corbs, Manu, Warburton, Bowe... As a big fan of Mark Bennett I'm very worried he might head the same way.

What he said.

We don't lack for FB cover in the selection on the pitch, and JJ makes for much much more than adequate wing cover. Given Daly's pace and legendary boot I suspect he could cover most of the back line anyway.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:11 pm

no 7 & 1/2 Toner was hyped up before the Ireland game. Didn't deliver on the day.

Launchbury is not established under Eddie Jones though. Launchbury was a mainstay of the old boss but doesn't mean he'll enjoy the same treatment under the new one.

He's not been proven performer this 6 nations either. Why should Eddie Jones instantly trust Launchbury?

Cumbrian I agree there is no guarantee but I believe a player in good form should be trusted more so than someone not fully fit and firing.

Itoje is the man in possession of the shirt, not Launchbury. It was Itoje who started vs Ireland not Launchbury.

Itoje has not let Eddie Jones down, need to repay the favour by keep picking him.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:16 pm

Think Jones will have watched the players and not just be judging them on 3 games and rightly so. We just can't keep chopping and changing based on short term form, we'd never build anything.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:30 pm

lostinwales legendary is an apt description at the moment.....

Would like to see Daly settle at one position first before being asked to cover most backs positions.

no 7 & 1/2 I find it funny you talk about chopping and changing but that's what you want to do by advocating dropping Itoje.

England have an opportunity to have the same 2nd row partnership for a 2nd game in a row. Not chop and change.... It will also help that Kruis-Itoje play together at club level - more than 3 games I should add.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:40 pm

Not dropping Itoje, he was injury cover. Once your main player is back (if fit etc etc) it's unusual for that player not to make way. As you've made very clear club isn't comparable.

Remember you said you wouldn't have had Launchbury at Saracens when his contract was coming up a while ago, is it that you justy don't rate him?

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:49 pm

Daly's very settled at 13 now. His ability to cover better than most means he might be asked to during a game if replacements/injuries but I can't remember him starting a game anywhere but 13 for a long while.

As long as he isn't being jumped between 13 and 15 again as his starting position at Wasps then his broad skill set and pace allowing him to cover elsewhere in emergency shouldn't be counted against him.

As said he wouldn't be asked to cover most back positions anyway. Watson/Nowell would cover 15 in case of injury, Joseph wing, Manu 12 and Farrell 10. In reality he would only likely be brought on at 13.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:52 pm

no 7 & 1/2

Itoje started vs Ireland. Not Launchbury. It would be Itoje being dropped.

If you have a 2nd row vs Ireland of Kruis-Itoje and that changes vs Wales then yes Itoje will have been dropped. Not hard to understand.

I think Launchbury is a good player, I just don't think he should just stroll back into the starting line up. I don't think he's world class either. Also don't think he's irreplacable.

England did not miss Launchbury vs Ireland.

king carlos perhaps but he's still not really got a reputation as a super sub. I get the impression that some posters seem to think he can cover 3-4 positions and kick 50+ metre kicks before he's even had a proper run out at 13 for England. Would love it if that turned out to be true but not sure.


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Post by BamBam Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:53 pm

king_carlos wrote:Daly's very settled at 13 now. His ability to cover better than most means he might be asked to during a game if replacements/injuries but I can't remember him starting a game anywhere but 13 for a long while.

As long as he isn't being jumped between 13 and 15 again as his starting position at Wasps then his broad skill set and pace allowing him to cover elsewhere in emergency shouldn't be counted against him.

As said he wouldn't be asked to cover most back positions anyway. Watson/Nowell would cover 15 in case of injury, Joseph wing, Manu 12 and Farrell 10. In reality he would only likely be brought on at 13.

Yep.

In truth, even if Daly only covered 13, the options of other players around him to cover other positions, rather than bringing Goode on and having to have Brown on the wing for example, makes Daly the better bench option

I'd rather see any combo of Brown/Nowell/Watson/Joseph/Daly making up the back 3 than I would Brown/Goode and one of the others


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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 2:59 pm

Agree Launchbury isn't world class or irreplaceable. Lock is one of the strongest positions for England, doesn't mean I wouldn't want the strongest pairing possible which in this case would be Kruis and Launchbury.

I suppose technically you're right that Itoje would be being dropped but for a guy who was chosen ahead of him and in the end wasn't in competition with him for the Ireland spot. Launchbury makes England a stronger team and more of a challenge for Wales, that's my only concern.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:02 pm

Had to tidy this up. BamBam - vulgar abuse is not cool, as my 6 year old cousin told me last week.
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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:14 pm

no 7 & 1/2 Kruis-Launchbury was not a strong pairing vs Scotland.....

Now perhaps that was just an one off due to Launchbury being unfit. I think it's a bigger risk to give that another outing rather than the pairing of Kruis-Itoje.

Launchbury missed out because was unfit, he was unfit vs Scotland too, could he be unfit vs Wales too? Seems like quite a risk.

Launchbury did not make England a stronger team vs Scotland.....as I said, Itoje replacing Launchbury did not weaken England. We don't know how Launchbury would have done but it's unlikely he would have outperformed Itoje.

Itoje and Kruis have been in better form and shown better fitness than Launchbury.

A fully fit and firing Launchbury I am sure would be an asset to England but we haven't seen enough of that recently.

I agree Itoje wasn't initially picked ahead of Launchbury but that's irrelevant as I believe he's performed as well as one could expect on their first start for England.

I personally do not think Itoje deserves to be dropped to the bench. It sends out a bad message - get your opportunity, play well, doesn't matter, we'll still drop you for someone who has struggled for fitness so far in this 6 nations.

Bambam Manu and Daly on the bench would mean 3 13s, 1 full back, 2 wingers and no 12 in the 23.

George Carlin if Bambam wants to call me that he's welcome to. Didn't bother me.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:20 pm

Daly was brought on at 12 last game and Eddie said he looked good there in training

Just saying Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:20 pm

You think that Launchbury is a bigger risk than Itoje? Seriously? If fit it's not really that hard a decision. A just fit enough Launchbury is a harder one. I know you've wanted Itoje in since probably even before the WC warm ups (I can't remember exactly) but for Jones to drop Launchbury for him now would surprise me a lot. For you to want Kruis and Itoje surprises me less as you didn't want Launchbury at Saracens but glad you're now enthusiastic about Kruis after your inital reservations.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:49 pm

lostinwales training....

No 7 & 1/2 we thought Launchbury was fit vs Scotland but he wasn't.

It wouldn't be dropping Launchbury, it would be retaining Itoje. You can't be dropped if you weren't in the side that faced Ireland....

Launchbury at Saracens is not something I would have minded. As for Kruis, his growth has surprised me, I thought he would be just be a mediocre international and I thought Itoje would have overtaken him by now. Kruis has improved more than I expected. Still believe Itoje will push him past him but not yet.

Itoje's elevation is not surprising, Kruis' rise is to me. I think both players have pushed and helped each other.

I think a bench spot for Launchbury would do him some good.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:51 pm

We go back to if Launchbury is fit. You can say he wasn't vs Scotland, fair enough, so if he is fit now we should expect him to back. Why would a bench spot for a fully fit Launchbury be good?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 3:51 pm

For him or England?

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:05 pm

No, Launchbury shouldn't stroll back into the England starting line up. On the bench is fine, gives him an opportunity to prove himself.

Launchbury can make an impact off the bench.

If England are to beat Wales they need the best 2nd row partnership for the job - that's Kruis and Itoje. The successful combination that helped us beat Ireland.

You and I will never agree, just as we have argued about the merits of Webber,Morgan and May at the RWC.

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Post by Hoonercat Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:06 pm

Has to be Launchbury for me if fit. Just my opinion but I feel her adds more to the scrum at the expense of the lineout, but will be a better foil for the Welsh locks.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:15 pm

I'd go Launchbury to start also.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:19 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd go Launchbury to start also.

The biggest critic of Itoje would start Launchbury, shock horror!

Form - doesn't matter....


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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:23 pm

beshocked wrote:Launchbury missed out because was unfit, he was unfit vs Scotland too, could he be unfit vs Wales too? Seems like quite a risk.

I'm not sure that makes sense. Surely a fitness test would establish that. Otherwise, how would injured players ever come back from injury? Plus, how serious could the injury be to keep him out for a single game?

I'm also a little confused how a guy steps in for one test and, on the basis of that single game (and a 20 minute sub appearance in another position), is suddenly seen as the incumbent. More so that he is the incumbent over a player with 30 caps, who, not so long ago, was being touted as a possible captain. And yet, apparently, you want continuity of selection and to build partnerships?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:27 pm

Id go with the same side v Ireland barring injuries.

They had the victory, let them have another run out.

Bring on the impact subs again.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:27 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd go Launchbury to start also.

The biggest critic of Itoje would start Launchbury, shock horror!

Form - doesn't matter....


Hardly.

I thought Itoje played really well last week, he deserves at least a bench spot. I just think Launchbury brings more physicality which will be useful against a good Welsh back 5.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:34 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand

Well perhaps the fitness test was flawed then because Launchbury quite clearly wasn't right vs Scotland.

We don't know the seriousness of the injury, could be a niggle that is easy to shake off, a long term issue. We just don't know. We can only go from what we know.

Launchbury's continuity has been broken by his lack of fitness and availability. Launchbury has had less gametime than both Itoje and Kruis in the 6 nations.

Kruis was seen as the first choice lock for England based on one game vs Scotland.

Sticking a team mate with his team mate is building a partnership at international level.

Kruis-Itoje - successful club 2nd row hope it makes transition to international level.

There were doubters against Ireland but it passed the first test.

Why should the player with 30 caps get automatically picked?

New coach, new regime, perfect opportunity for change.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:37 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd go Launchbury to start also.

The biggest critic of Itoje would start Launchbury, shock horror!

Form - doesn't matter....


Hardly.

I thought Itoje played really well last week, he deserves at least a bench spot. I just think Launchbury brings more physicality which will be useful against a good Welsh back 5.

More physicality? April fools isn't till another 3 weeks.......

Itoje will never be good enough for you.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:47 pm

What do you feel Launchbury brings to the side beshocked (assuming hes fit)?

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:54 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What do you feel Launchbury brings to the side beshocked (assuming hes fit)?

Good bench option.

Thought he did well off the bench vs Italy and shows that perhaps the role suits him.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 4:55 pm

Attributes I meant. If starting.

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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 5:10 pm

Do you mean what does he bring that others don't?

Nothing.

If it's what I think he's good at.

Good at hitting rucks, makes a lot of tackles, good discipline.

Just feel others can do that too.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 5:27 pm

So in other words you just think Kruis and Itoje are better players.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue 08 Mar 2016, 5:31 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd go Launchbury to start also.

The biggest critic of Itoje would start Launchbury, shock horror!

Form - doesn't matter....


Hardly.

I thought Itoje played really well last week, he deserves at least a bench spot. I just think Launchbury brings more physicality which will be useful against a good Welsh back 5.

More physicality? April fools isn't till another 3 weeks.......

Itoje will never be good enough for you.


I don't see what is so ridiculous about the idea that Launchbury has more physicality than Itoje.  Joe is very strong in tight spaces, has a huge engine and will carry, case and tackle all day. He is rarely pushed backwards in contact either.  He also has over a stone in weight on Maro, so he certainly has the bulk.  

It's a little difficult to take your derision of another person opinion because it differs from yours.  I mean 'April's Fools day', is Sarge's suggestion really THAT difficult to believe?
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Post by beshocked Tue 08 Mar 2016, 5:53 pm

Yes it's that difficult to believe.

Being heavier doesn't necessarily mean more physicality.

Over a stone heavier? I find that hard to believe too.

I've never thought of Launchbury as being that physical let alone more than Itoje.

I guess it depends what you want from a player.

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Post by Cumbrian Tue 08 Mar 2016, 6:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Yes it's that difficult to believe.

Being heavier doesn't necessarily mean more physicality.

Over a stone heavier? I find that hard to believe too.

I've never thought of Launchbury as being that physical let alone more than Itoje.

I guess it depends what you want from a player.

I didn't say it did, I added his weight as an afterthought. I am going on RFU statistics, which I suppose could be inflated (but why inflate them for one and not the other?) I do generally believe Launchbury is a more powerful player though (although I don't think the difference is insurmountable). I don't believe it is about 'what you want from a player', I believe it is about perception.  You have one view and I happen to disagree with it, but the difference is I don't believe your view is beyond the realms of possibility simply because it is different from my own.  

Itoje is a good player (and he is only going to get better), but I can't honestly ascribe to the view that he is entirely in possession of the shirt after 2 caps and only one start.


Last edited by Cumbrian on Tue 08 Mar 2016, 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 08 Mar 2016, 6:13 pm

Just calm yourself down BS, no need to get so carried away with a differing opinion.

Launchbury is extremley physical in contact, more so than Itoje who's probably giving away a fair few KG's.

I seem to remember Launchbury almost carrying Etzebeth off the pitch once.

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Post by thomh Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:20 pm

I was under the impression that Launchbury looked off against Scotland because he'd been up all night with "tummy trouble". Quite how that's being used to suggest he won't be fit for a game 5 weeks later I don't know.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 09 Mar 2016, 7:58 am

He then did pick up an injury which meant he missed the Ireland game. It'll be that whihce decides it. George too has picked up an injury with Cowan-Dickie covering.

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Post by thomh Wed 09 Mar 2016, 8:33 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:He then did pick up an injury which meant he missed the Ireland game. It'll be that whihce decides it. George too has picked up an injury with Cowan-Dickie covering.

Yeh I get that but beshocked seems to be using the Scotland game as a further question mark over Launchbury's fitness, which is a bit disingenuous I think.

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