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The Final Six Nations weekend..!

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Post by maestegmafia Sun 28 Feb 2016, 6:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

The final weekend again comprises of the same three matches as last year though at the opposite locations

Wales face Italy first up in Cardiff, then Ireland face Scotland in Dublin and finally France will meet England in Paris.

Same order as last year. Same match ups, different venues and different circumstances. Though we could see Wales, France or England as possible champions.

Will we get the exciting day we did last year?

Why are the fixtures, or at least the order of the fixtures not changed...?


Last edited by maestegmafia on Sun 28 Feb 2016, 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by SecretFly Fri 04 Mar 2016, 10:24 pm

Fairness always has been and always will be a relative state.  Sport has never been fair.  I doubt the smokescreen of letting games happen at the same time would push fairness higher up the agenda than where it already sits....quite low in most sports.  There is always more money somewhere, more players to select from somewhere, more fitness and science resources somewhere.  There is always a side suffering from a number of injuries to key players and always a nation that will win more Olympic Golds than others.
There'll always be a New Zealand and a team 12 or 13 places beneath them, meeting them at a World Cup and hoping for a bad day at the office from the men in black.

But what sport still is (and I guess it's why many watch a lot of it and some of the rest of us watch a little) is a spectacle... it's basically entertainment... a distraction for a few hours from the drudgery of normal life.

I think some people are letting the greed for victory - and the craving for it, and the crowing records attached to it - I guess they're letting that colour their attitudes too much to what in reality is just a great day's sport.  Why spoil it by demanding that fans can only really watch one game on a day of three?

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Post by Gwlad Fri 04 Mar 2016, 10:35 pm

maestegmafia wrote:The final weekend again comprises of the same three matches as last year though at the opposite locations

Wales face Italy first up in Cardiff, then Ireland face Scotland in Dublin and finally France will meet England in Paris.

Same order as last year. Same match ups, different venues and different circumstances. Though we could see Wales, France or England as possible champions.

Will we get the exciting day we did last year?

Why are the fixtures, or at least the order of the fixtures not changed...?

It doesn't matter, as long as one team is allowed to know what they need to do to win it seems fair right?

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Post by SimonofSurrey Fri 04 Mar 2016, 11:29 pm

Unlike last year, there's little advantage to be gained from playing last. If England beat Wales next week, the final game as planned is almost certain to be the Championship decider, barring a massive series of freak results (notably an Italy win in Cardiff) before then. If Wales beat England, a win against Italy will render the last two games irrelevant.

If you don't like the order of the games, however, petition your national RFU before next season to stand up for themselves better next time round. You're only ever a victim in life if you allow yourself to be, by choosing the false comfort zone of a moan to actually doing something about it.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 05 Mar 2016, 7:32 am

Gwlad wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

Maybe but its highly unlikely and anyway, the last team you'd want to back in a GS struggle is England.


WHY?

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 05 Mar 2016, 7:43 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

Maybe but its highly unlikely and anyway, the last team you'd want to back in a GS struggle is England.


WHY?

Because they have a history of chocking at must win games that goes back to the Carling era

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 05 Mar 2016, 7:48 am

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

Maybe but its highly unlikely and anyway, the last team you'd want to back in a GS struggle is England.


WHY?

Because they have a history of chocking at must win games that goes back to the Carling era


ABit like Wales then, against Australia for example. How many time have Wales been in the lead against Australia and have lost at the final Whistle?

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 05 Mar 2016, 10:18 am

Or nothing like Wales, if your example is games against Australia. Terrible comparison (quelle surprise).

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Post by Breadvan Sat 05 Mar 2016, 11:09 am

I can see it now. Romp to victory over Wales, get gubbed in Paris and end up a laughing stock again.
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Post by Gwlad Sat 05 Mar 2016, 3:34 pm

What's Wales record v Aus got ot do with England choking in the final game of the 6 Nations when a Slam is on offer? (like in 2011, par example)

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Post by Pot Hale Sun 06 Mar 2016, 6:32 pm

Gwlad wrote:What's Wales record v Aus got ot do with England choking in the final game of the 6 Nations when a Slam is on offer? (like in 2011, par example)

It might point to a similar capacity to choke, who knows?
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Post by SimonofSurrey Sun 06 Mar 2016, 10:46 pm

Breadvan wrote:I can see it now. Romp to victory over Wales, get gubbed in Paris and end up a laughing stock again.

Yes, it's possible, but far from certain, that England might beat Wales but then lose to France in Paris. But it would take one helluva gubbing for France to take the title from England on points difference: probably something akin to the 43-13 Dublin defeat just over 9 years ago. The winner of the 2016 6 Nations almost certainly will be the winner of this Saturday's game at HQ.

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Post by Gwlad Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:32 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Gwlad wrote:What's Wales record v Aus got ot do with England choking in the final game of the 6 Nations when a Slam is on offer? (like in 2011, par example)

It might point to a similar capacity to choke, who knows?

Sure, but the comparison is frankly inane, a weak attempt at a pop, that's all.

Wales don't choke in the 6 Nations. England have been consistently.

But if it is more important to have a pop at our success in the 6 Nations by saying we are repeatedly crap at playing Aus and it makes someone feel better, than have at it. Ignore reality. But, just know that it is that narrow mindedness that has contributed to keeping England as nearly men for 13 years (with the exception of course of the manner of their winning the 6 Nations in Dublin in 2011)

I for one, don't think Eddie is narrow minded. Saturday will be a battle royal and if Webb Charteris and Gethin are fit and play, i think we'll win. if not i can't be sure. But one thing is for certain, the outcome has nothing to do with Wales record against Australia.

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Post by Hoonercat Mon 07 Mar 2016, 10:58 am

Gwlad wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Gwlad wrote:What's Wales record v Aus got ot do with England choking in the final game of the 6 Nations when a Slam is on offer? (like in 2011, par example)

It might point to a similar capacity to choke, who knows?

Sure, but the comparison is frankly inane, a weak attempt at a pop, that's all.

Wales don't choke in the 6 Nations. England have been consistently.

But if it is more important to have a pop at our success in the 6 Nations by saying we are repeatedly crap at playing Aus and it makes someone feel better, than have at it. Ignore reality. But, just know that it is that narrow mindedness that has contributed to keeping England as nearly men for 13 years (with the exception of course of the manner of their winning the 6 Nations in Dublin in 2011)

I for one, don't think Eddie is narrow minded. Saturday will be  a battle royal and if Webb Charteris and Gethin are fit and play, i think we'll win. if not i can't be sure. But one thing is for certain, the outcome has nothing to do with Wales record against Australia.

While I'm not convinced it can described as choking, it is clear that England have struggled in some very important games recently. Maybe it's choking, maybe it's their opponents having that bit extra commitment and heart (Wales in the WC for example), or a lack of leadership on the field. Whatever the reason, it needs to change - Lancaster's England always appeared a bit too 'soft' when the going got tough and Robshaw appeared to lack the ability to rally a team on the back foot. Brian Moore's article in the Telegraph is spot on, this match against Wales will show Eddie who his test animals are, the players who can thrive under pressure and make the difference. Will some be found wanting?
I think AWJ, if playing, will play a major role for Wales. He's a player who can step up to the plate - in fact Wales have a few capable of doing so - and I worry that he's going be all over Kruis and Itoje, which is why I'd rather see Launchbury start, if fit. Having said that, Itoje isn't exactly a shrinking violet but I'm not convinced he yet has the nous to deal with the Welsh locks.

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Post by No9 Mon 07 Mar 2016, 12:11 pm

robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

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Post by SimonofSurrey Mon 07 Mar 2016, 1:56 pm

No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!! vomit

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Post by No9 Mon 07 Mar 2016, 3:22 pm

SimonofSurrey wrote:
No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!!   vomit  

Suggest you read my reply again if you think I was siding with robbo on this.. Also, don't respond asking me to stop WUMing, as my reply wasn't a WUM but a suitable reply to what I saw as one.. ie. the inference that England winning is the best outcome for the tournament..

picard

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Post by Hoonercat Mon 07 Mar 2016, 3:25 pm

I don't think he was accusing you of WUMing No9, get yourself a bigger phone Very Happy

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Post by SimonofSurrey Mon 07 Mar 2016, 3:59 pm

Well said Hoonercat,

No 9, I come in peace! I'll apologise for associating you with a fairly anodyne article if that makes you feel any better. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of who said what and who responded to it. But I will not apologise for not having accused you of being a WUM: if you didn't contribute to the painful silly debate on choking, then your, and my, conscience is clear.

Blimey!




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Post by RubyGuby Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:25 pm

Easy SOS, its not like you to get drawn into these shenanigan's! thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:32 pm

I hope I'm not being racist here but I find it's Welsh people from....was it Keem?... those are invariably the worst.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:37 pm

Sneem you Curve hugger - down South with the potatoes thumbsup guinness

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Post by SecretFly Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:39 pm

Sneem!!!! That's it. I knew I got it wrong but chanced my arm anyway......................like usual Whistle

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:43 pm

What's your forecast for our visit to London this weekend Fly?

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Post by SecretFly Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:55 pm

RubyGuby wrote:What's your forecast for our visit to London this weekend Fly?

Tasty but very salty venture for both sides Ruby. Will it be last big stampeding buffalo that survives wins?

A battle of the weighing scales and seismometers. The collisions look like they'll be epic and an unfortunate injury to a central player might be the telling edge - not that I'm wishing that on a player.

But it truly is very close to call Ruby. Two best sides in the competition, two fittest and fastest. Two brash coaches that thrive in adversity... and both have enough fire in the belly to turn around either side at a half time talk-in if need be. So even a nice gap in the scores at half time won't mean much by the end of the 80.

I think England might be more inclined to score more methodically but if Wales can crunch through once or twice, they're certainly the team to put the doubt back in the minds of the English. It looks an epic game on paper and hopefully for neutrals it lives up to it - again.
But I have a feeling it might become a low scoring battle of wills in the middle and the longer Wales can last that journey, the more elusive fire they always have in the endgame.

In short................... I don't know who the hell will win! Wink

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 07 Mar 2016, 4:58 pm

Nice one 21-21 it is thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly Mon 07 Mar 2016, 5:03 pm

Unfortunately two draws don't make anything right for Wales though, does it? Surely the bookies wouldn't allow another draw for Wales in the one year??? Would they???

*scooting off to put 200 bucks on the hope that they might*

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 08 Mar 2016, 12:53 am

SecretFly wrote:Unfortunately two draws don't make anything right for Wales though, does it?   Surely the bookies wouldn't allow another draw for Wales in the one year???   Would they???

*scooting off to put 200 bucks on the hope that they might*

Don't do it Fly. PaddyPower will explode
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Post by gregortree Tue 08 Mar 2016, 8:40 am

I dreamt I spoke with Sir Clive, Jonno, Wilko, Carling.
They assured me England are definitely on for the win this Saturday.
Tails and heads are up for this, and there will be no recurrence of silly mistakes. It is England's time.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:11 am

I see Bobby Brown has been speaking of his role at the weekend:

"He's one of their kingmakers... a fantastic player but very get-atible. And that's a legitimate role I see for myself on the day. I'm going to hassle him all day. I'm going to make him think about the hit everytime he takes that ball into his hand. I'm going to be running down his channel all day and knocking him as far back as I can each time. He'll be getting treatment. And there is no wrong in me saying that. Rugby is a hard contact sport, and that's what he'll be feeling from me for the full 80"

Warburton be warned.


Cool

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:21 am

Bobby Brown? Headscratch

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Post by robbo277 Tue 08 Mar 2016, 11:48 am

No9 wrote:
SimonofSurrey wrote:
No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!!   vomit  

Suggest you read my reply again if you think I was siding with robbo on this.. Also, don't respond asking me to stop WUMing, as my reply wasn't a WUM but a suitable reply to what I saw as one.. ie. the inference that England winning is the best outcome for the tournament..

picard

Can I just say now, it was a joke? I thought that much was obvious.

The way the tournament has played out, the Championship decider is one week early. The winner of this will win the tournament, barring Italy beating Wales or France winning their last two and catching up about 40 points difference. The final day is set to be a bit of a damp squib with regards to where the title goes (especially after last year). I think whether England can beat France away and complete a Grand Slam (after all the previous history of choking in these scenarios) would be a more interesting narrative then can Wales beat Italy at home (in the first game) and win another Championship, but that's just my personal opinion and of course I don't expect Welsh fans to hope for an England win for this reason.

I guess the most interesting thing would be for the draw, and then Wales beat Italy and England have to win for a Championship, possibly with France in the equation too.

And for my fellow England fans getting worked up about "choking", we lost Grand Slam deciders in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2011 and 2013, two of those losses caused us to lose the Championship (1999 and 2013). We've won one such game in (my) memory - 2003.

Finally, people complaining about the ordering of games and giving teams an advantage, should also consider under the old 5 Nations that one team would have to finish a week early. Teams would have been able to change their starting line-up if they knew they would have to chase tries. The way the tournament is set up it is always going to offer slight advantages in any given year, but you have to get on with it. Win all your games and points difference and ordering of games isn't a factor.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed 09 Mar 2016, 1:13 am

robbo277 wrote:
No9 wrote:
SimonofSurrey wrote:
No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!!   vomit  

Suggest you read my reply again if you think I was siding with robbo on this.. Also, don't respond asking me to stop WUMing, as my reply wasn't a WUM but a suitable reply to what I saw as one.. ie. the inference that England winning is the best outcome for the tournament..

picard

Can I just say now, it was a joke? I thought that much was obvious.

The way the tournament has played out, the Championship decider is one week early. The winner of this will win the tournament, barring Italy beating Wales or France winning their last two and catching up about 40 points difference. The final day is set to be a bit of a damp squib with regards to where the title goes (especially after last year). I think whether England can beat France away and complete a Grand Slam (after all the previous history of choking in these scenarios) would be a more interesting narrative then can Wales beat Italy at home (in the first game) and win another Championship, but that's just my personal opinion and of course I don't expect Welsh fans to hope for an England win for this reason.

I guess the most interesting thing would be for the draw, and then Wales beat Italy and England have to win for a Championship, possibly with France in the equation too.

And for my fellow England fans getting worked up about "choking", we lost Grand Slam deciders in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2011 and 2013, two of those losses caused us to lose the Championship (1999 and 2013). We've won one such game in (my) memory - 2003.

Finally, people complaining about the ordering of games and giving teams an advantage, should also consider under the old 5 Nations that one team would have to finish a week early. Teams would have been able to change their starting line-up if they knew they would have to chase tries. The way the tournament is set up it is always going to offer slight advantages in any given year, but you have to get on with it. Win all your games and points difference and ordering of games isn't a factor.

Far too sensible analysis, Robbo.

I for one will be cheering on England every step of the way this weekend. And that they win by just a couple of points to put them on 8 points and +50 PD

Then I shall be cheering on France to spank the Scots by about 15-20 points to leave them on 6 points and say +12 PD.

This would leave England and France to play a decider with a 38 points margin at stake between the two teams with each point scored worth two in effect, for either team, which given last year's match might just make it interesting.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 09 Mar 2016, 8:25 am

I like choking comments. Choking means that we were expected to win. I never rated us as the best team in those instances so it's nice to hear from the fans here that they considered us better than them and the title going to the wrong team.

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Post by SimonofSurrey Wed 09 Mar 2016, 8:35 am

RubyGuby wrote:Easy SOS, its not like you to get drawn into these shenanigan's! thumbsup

Yeah, right you are RubyGuby. My attempts to be conciliatory and - you never know - kick off a bit of a debate about the rugby clearly only fanned the flames. So that's me clamming up for now, a la Eddie Jones.

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 09 Mar 2016, 9:19 am

Enjoy the game SOS - Loved your comments 6 months ago, something on the lines of, "It's 1999 all over again - I can see it happening" thumbsup

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Post by Cyril Wed 09 Mar 2016, 10:19 am

Pot Hale wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
No9 wrote:
SimonofSurrey wrote:
No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!!   vomit  

Suggest you read my reply again if you think I was siding with robbo on this.. Also, don't respond asking me to stop WUMing, as my reply wasn't a WUM but a suitable reply to what I saw as one.. ie. the inference that England winning is the best outcome for the tournament..

picard

Can I just say now, it was a joke? I thought that much was obvious.

The way the tournament has played out, the Championship decider is one week early. The winner of this will win the tournament, barring Italy beating Wales or France winning their last two and catching up about 40 points difference. The final day is set to be a bit of a damp squib with regards to where the title goes (especially after last year). I think whether England can beat France away and complete a Grand Slam (after all the previous history of choking in these scenarios) would be a more interesting narrative then can Wales beat Italy at home (in the first game) and win another Championship, but that's just my personal opinion and of course I don't expect Welsh fans to hope for an England win for this reason.

I guess the most interesting thing would be for the draw, and then Wales beat Italy and England have to win for a Championship, possibly with France in the equation too.

And for my fellow England fans getting worked up about "choking", we lost Grand Slam deciders in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2011 and 2013, two of those losses caused us to lose the Championship (1999 and 2013). We've won one such game in (my) memory - 2003.

Finally, people complaining about the ordering of games and giving teams an advantage, should also consider under the old 5 Nations that one team would have to finish a week early. Teams would have been able to change their starting line-up if they knew they would have to chase tries. The way the tournament is set up it is always going to offer slight advantages in any given year, but you have to get on with it. Win all your games and points difference and ordering of games isn't a factor.

Far too sensible analysis, Robbo.

I for one will be cheering on England every step of the way this weekend.   And that they win by just a couple of points to put them on 8 points and +50 PD

Then I shall be cheering on France to spank the Scots by about 15-20 points to leave them on 6 points and say +12 PD.

This would leave England and France to play a decider with a 38 points margin at stake between the two teams with each point scored worth two in effect, for either team, which given last year's match might just make it interesting.      
Thing is, those games only really happen if both sides go for it (or if one side gives up, like Scotland and Italy last year).

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Post by robbo277 Wed 09 Mar 2016, 10:51 am

Cyril wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
No9 wrote:
SimonofSurrey wrote:
No9 wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Basically, the tournament needs England to beat Wales so at least we have the drama of a Grand Slam game on the final day (and the final game at that). I'm sure we can ALL agree on this...

WHY!!! I, and I guess a few others actually believe the tournament needs WALES to beat England and take another Championship Title..

So there ...  oh yeah

Wales

Hope springs eternal if No9/robbo seriously think others wish England well this weekend - or any other weekend - 'for the sake of the tournament'. So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable.

PS: can all those responsible from both sides of the Severn please stop WUMming away about England 6N 'choking' v Wales results against Australia. It's a stupid nonsensical non-comparison that does no-one any credit. Shhhhhhh!!!   vomit  

Suggest you read my reply again if you think I was siding with robbo on this.. Also, don't respond asking me to stop WUMing, as my reply wasn't a WUM but a suitable reply to what I saw as one.. ie. the inference that England winning is the best outcome for the tournament..

picard

Can I just say now, it was a joke? I thought that much was obvious.

The way the tournament has played out, the Championship decider is one week early. The winner of this will win the tournament, barring Italy beating Wales or France winning their last two and catching up about 40 points difference. The final day is set to be a bit of a damp squib with regards to where the title goes (especially after last year). I think whether England can beat France away and complete a Grand Slam (after all the previous history of choking in these scenarios) would be a more interesting narrative then can Wales beat Italy at home (in the first game) and win another Championship, but that's just my personal opinion and of course I don't expect Welsh fans to hope for an England win for this reason.

I guess the most interesting thing would be for the draw, and then Wales beat Italy and England have to win for a Championship, possibly with France in the equation too.

And for my fellow England fans getting worked up about "choking", we lost Grand Slam deciders in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2011 and 2013, two of those losses caused us to lose the Championship (1999 and 2013). We've won one such game in (my) memory - 2003.

Finally, people complaining about the ordering of games and giving teams an advantage, should also consider under the old 5 Nations that one team would have to finish a week early. Teams would have been able to change their starting line-up if they knew they would have to chase tries. The way the tournament is set up it is always going to offer slight advantages in any given year, but you have to get on with it. Win all your games and points difference and ordering of games isn't a factor.

Far too sensible analysis, Robbo.

I for one will be cheering on England every step of the way this weekend.   And that they win by just a couple of points to put them on 8 points and +50 PD

Then I shall be cheering on France to spank the Scots by about 15-20 points to leave them on 6 points and say +12 PD.

This would leave England and France to play a decider with a 38 points margin at stake between the two teams with each point scored worth two in effect, for either team, which given last year's match might just make it interesting.      
Thing is, those games only really happen if both sides go for it (or if one side gives up, like Scotland and Italy last year).

I thought it would be unlikely we'd lose by 8 against Wales in 2013, but they cut us so far adrift there was no way back. It would be much harder for France to do a similar thing to us, and this France side is less impressive than the Welsh side of 2013 (who had reached a World Cup semi-final and won a Grand Slam in the previous 18 months), but I think if England beat Wales, it would be more interesting if France had a shot at the Championship, however unlikely it is.

Still, all this is very hypothetical until after Gameweek 4.

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Post by gregortree Wed 09 Mar 2016, 11:49 am

There is a 'Well Done Wales" thread started by Tiger.

I'm just waiting for the 'Well Done England ' equivalent thread.

PS..I'm not qualified to start.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed 09 Mar 2016, 12:56 pm

gregortree wrote:There is a 'Well Done Wales" thread started  by Tiger.

I'm just waiting for the 'Well Done England ' equivalent thread.

PS..I'm not qualified to start.

Well that would require a Welsh fan to "retire" from the boards citing their disapproval of all things WUM and English.

Not sure if there's any of those on here......
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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Mar 2016, 1:12 pm

I too like 'Choking' as a taunt. Only contenders 'choke'. It's a nice slur to get cannoned into your flanks....

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 10 Mar 2016, 4:00 am

SecretFly wrote:I too like 'Choking' as a taunt.  Only contenders 'choke'.  It's a nice slur to get cannoned into your flanks....

So Ireland, Scotland and Italy definitely aren't chokers then.

Phew!

It's either England or Wales for the choker tag this year. Yahoo



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Post by gregortree Thu 10 Mar 2016, 9:13 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I too like 'Choking' as a taunt.  Only contenders 'choke'.  It's a nice slur to get cannoned into your flanks....

So Ireland, Scotland and Italy definitely aren't chokers then.

Phew!

It's either England or Wales for the choker tag this year.    Yahoo



 Is it more painful than the wooden spoon ?
It may be but I never had the 'pleasure' of the spoon.
But England will not choke...not this time.

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Post by stub Thu 10 Mar 2016, 9:21 pm

I hope you're right Gregor!

For what it's worth I believe you are.

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Post by gregortree Thu 10 Mar 2016, 9:39 pm

OK you know it makes sense...

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Post by SimonofSurrey Mon 14 Mar 2016, 11:39 pm

Further up this thread, last Monday, I posted the following:

"So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable."

If anyone's wondering, no - I didn't play the Lottery this past weekend. Sadly. Whistle

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Post by gregortree Tue 15 Mar 2016, 7:33 am

Scotland will wanting England to beat France in order to help Scotland rise above France in table points. So Scots fans to wish for an England slam. That does sound a little bizarre I confess.

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Post by IanBru Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:16 pm

Scotland fans also hoping for an Italian victory over Wales, as a win against Ireland (not impossible) would life Scotland to the utterly-improbable heights of second in the table!
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Post by stub Tue 15 Mar 2016, 8:58 pm

gregortree wrote:OK you know it makes sense...

It did make absolute sense! Very Happy

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Post by majesticimperialman Wed 16 Mar 2016, 7:03 am

SimonofSurrey wrote:Further up this thread, last Monday, I posted the following:

"So here's another strange scenario: if England beat Wales at HQ then Scotland beat France on Sunday the whole final day is redundant as England, bizarrely, would already be uncatchable."

If anyone's wondering, no - I didn't play the Lottery this past weekend. Sadly. Whistle


Simon never mind the lottery. Did you put a bet on at the bookies, and if you did what odds did you get?

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Post by SecretFly Wed 16 Mar 2016, 3:48 pm

So.............. Wales v Italy?  Dead Rubber nonsense with North scoring a quadruple hat-trick in the first half alone.  Boring!!!!

France v England.  Yet another hot headed try-fest (like last year) with boyos running right, left, up and down; anywhichway to get the edge in beating some very comical attempts at defending on both sides.  England have nothing to lose but the loss itself so will act as excited as the worm off the bait line.  France don't even have pride to fight for anymore, so they'll give up on structured rugby altogether because it bores them.  208 - 196 final score; and the Slam to England.  Boring (for those of us who like srums)!

Ireland v Scotland.  The only real game of the day.  Two teams that might strangle each other to death in the middle of the field (if the ref is good and pretends to close his eyes for the duration). Insults of 'Spud Boy' and 'Kilted Kunt' ringing loudly as the claymores and pikes come down heavy on the eye-area, and the ref shouting down to the many headless warriors that it is just a scratch...'play on!'

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