The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

+41
Marshes
True Raven
Eejit
Heaf
majesticimperialman
wolfball
cakeordeath
scrummy
Engine#4
theslosty
Hoonercat
westisbest
Don Alfonso
thebandwagonsociety
Kingshu
lostinwales
Sin é
rodders
funnyExiledScot
DirtyRucker7
englandglory4ever
PenfroPete
RuggerRadge2611
Pete330v2
eirebilly
asoreleftshoulder
JmD
tigertattie
marty2086
carpet baboon
Hazel Sapling
Pot Hale
Notch
The Great Aukster
Rory_Gallagher
Golden
profitius
SecretFly
toml
the-goon
George Carlin
45 posters

Page 3 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by George Carlin Sun 06 Mar 2016, 5:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Irelan116N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Italy11
IRELAND v ITALY
12 March 2016
KO: 13:30 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on RTE, DMAX, ITV, FR2 / BBC (H)

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

16 Played 16
15 Won 1
0 Drawn 0
1 Lost 15
519 Points 209

B. Recent Form

4 October 2015: Olympic Stadium, London, England
16 – 9 to Ireland
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool D

7 February 2015: Stadio Olimpico, Rome
3 – 26 to Ireland
2015 Six Nations Championship

8 March 2014: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 7 to Ireland
2014 Six Nations Championship

16 March 2013: Stadio Olimpico, Rome
22 – 15 to Italy
2013 Six Nations Championship

25 February 2012: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
42 – 10 to Ireland
2012 Six Nations Championship

C. Teams

IRELAND
6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Father10 
[tbc]

ITALY
6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Pope-f10
[tbc]
George Carlin
George Carlin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 15091
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : United Arab Emirates

Back to top Go down


6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Notch Thu 10 Mar 2016, 6:17 pm

Yeah I'm actually fine with the philosophy of who is least likely to make a mistake- but then Zebo at fullback and Madigan at 10 have made mistakes with their kicking that have actually cost us the chance to go out and win games in the past few weeks as we hand opponents cheap field position and territory to build momentum right when we've needed to take control of the game and strangle them. So at that stage you understand the frustration. Madigan in particular consistently gives the momentum away when he comes on- always to replace Sexton at 10, never as a centre- and makes poor decisions that hand the initiative to the opposition. I mean in the France game Jared Payne played the whole second half injured because we knew Madigan would need to come on for Sexton. At that point does the versatility argument not become redundant?

The grass is always greener on the other side and the other options have glaring weaknesses too. I've been given flak for pointing out that Jackson is not exactly forcing Schmidt to select him with his current form and I don't believe he's entitled to a cap the way he's playing. But it's not whether Jackson is going well enough to dislodge Madigan, but rather why Madigan can go poorly every time and get away with it. You just know what's going to happen when he comes on.

However I totally agree the real issue is how the tight five performs and how much leadership senior players show out there. The winning and losing of this game will happen at the scrum, line out and breakdown. But we all know this and know- depressingly- there are no other options and our hands are tied with regards to the tight five. Thats why there is no discussion. Best is trying to do it all by himself. It's him and McGrath and three passengers at the minute in terms of work rate around the field. Best has lost confidence in his jumpers and the lack of a genuine third option in the line out make his lobbed throws easy to read. In the scrum we're in crisis at tight head and neither lock is giving the front row any help. In the back row Heaslip is increasingly peripheral and Van Den Flier is still finding his feet- the only good news story up front is the excellent Stander. We just have to hope for the best with this group of forwards, they're military medium. I've no doubt that the back line selection is influenced by that. If you've a pack that can't guarantee you good ball, you'd better pick backs who can defend. Despite this we are still hanging in games and I expect us to win on Saturday. All in all, Schmidt has a terrible hand this Six Nations and his remit is to grind out two comfortable home wins despite a seriously misfiring scrum and line out. It's just that going down to the game, you want to see a few players who are worth getting excited about too. You want to see something that can get you out of your seat. Give us something positive to look forward too!

I do think Schmidt has demonstrated his class with our two Six Nations wins because now we're beginning to see that we don't really have very much quality or depth in the forwards. He's had us punching way above our weight since he came in but reality has caught up with us after a clutch of key players either retired or have just gone past their peak. When you look at the performances he's gotten out of quite average players like Toner, Ross, Murray etc. over the last few years it puts this year into perspective.


Last edited by Notch on Thu 10 Mar 2016, 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 33
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by The Great Aukster Thu 10 Mar 2016, 6:33 pm

I don't expect Ireland to win by 15+ points, but they need to and over Scotland as well to stop being overtaken in the rankings.

It's amazing how some think that shuffling the deck is a sign of good coaching! Bringing new players into the mix for two fairly crucial games or moving others to unfamiliar positions where they haven't had the benefit of 'coaching' is not clever.
Postulating that Jackson is a better Test 12 than Madigan is based on nothing. Paddy isn't playing that well for Ulster at 10 yet Joe should throw him in for a couple of crucial games just to see how much slating he'll get - that would be fantastic man management! Madigan might not be in good form or even very good full stop, but at least from the bench he can play 'off the cuff' and knows the moves.
Payne did nothing wrong other than get injured, so after one game away he should lose the starting shirt that he's fought hard to get and has never shamed it. Better to shift him as a returning player to a position he hasn't started at before in a test!
Isn't coaching about getting synergy, where the team is more than the sum of the parts? Yet the rugby Einsteins out there think it's better to keep tearing up the key partnerships and starting again from scratch.
Can't believe the arguments against Healy either. Yes his performances have been badly down on what they were. However on his day he was one of the few world class forwards that Ireland could field. Buckley has been on good form but from what I've seen he isn't in that class. It is absolutely paramount that Healy is given every chance to get back up to those levels, and equally important to find out at the earliest opportunity if he's totally lost it. It's fine talking about the Connacht set piece, but unless Joe is going to select them en bloc it is irrelevant because translating some of the parts doesn't translate all of the synergy.

As for McFadden on the bench that is indeed indefensible. Stuart Olding should have been there.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Guest Thu 10 Mar 2016, 7:28 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:I don't expect Ireland to win by 15+ points, but they need to and over Scotland as well to stop being overtaken in the rankings.

It's amazing how some think that shuffling the deck is a sign of good coaching! Bringing new players into the mix for two fairly crucial games or moving others to unfamiliar positions where they haven't had the benefit of 'coaching' is not clever.
Postulating that Jackson is a better Test 12 than Madigan is based on nothing. Paddy isn't playing that well for Ulster at 10 yet Joe should throw him in for a couple of crucial games just to see how much slating he'll get - that would be fantastic man management! Madigan might not be in good form or even very good full stop, but at least from the bench he can play 'off the cuff' and knows the moves.
Payne did nothing wrong other than get injured, so after one game away he should lose the starting shirt that he's fought hard to get and has never shamed it. Better to shift him as a returning player to a position he hasn't started at before in a test!
Isn't coaching about getting synergy, where the team is more than the sum of the parts? Yet the rugby Einsteins out there think it's better to keep tearing up the key partnerships and starting again from scratch.
Can't believe the arguments against Healy either. Yes his performances have been badly down on what they were. However on his day he was one of the few world class forwards that Ireland could field. Buckley has been on good form but from what I've seen he isn't in that class. It is absolutely paramount that Healy is given every chance to get back up to those levels, and equally important to find out at the earliest opportunity if he's totally lost it. It's fine talking about the Connacht set piece, but unless Joe is going to select them en bloc it is irrelevant because translating some of the parts doesn't translate all of the synergy.

As for McFadden on the bench that is indeed indefensible. Stuart Olding should have been there.

Yep, blooding new players against weak opposition is great man management, as is giving players who are considered the future, like Jackson, some much needed game time. When are they going to be given a chance? Against SA? Against the AB?

I will tell you what is very poor man management; giving a young player his first start, one that he played well in, dumping him the next week, and criticising his game to the press. When it goes wrong .... blame the players.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 10 Mar 2016, 8:03 pm

What the flip is wrong with the new quoting system on these forums? Every time I try to select a piece of text within a quote it zooms to the bottom of the page, making it impossible to select accurately.

Anyone else having this issue?

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 10 Mar 2016, 8:08 pm

What the flip is wrong with the new quoting system on the
Rory_Gallagher wrote:se forums? Every time I try to select a piece of text within a quote it zooms to the bottom of the page, making it impossible to select accurately.

Anyone else having this
issue?





Works fine for me..... do'h.

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2599
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Guest Thu 10 Mar 2016, 8:27 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What the flip is wrong with the new quoting system on these forums? Every time I try to select a piece of text within a quote it zooms to the bottom of the page, making it impossible to select accurately.

Anyone else having this issue?

It's fine for me. Did you try clearing your browser?

Take that back. Didn't spot that you were selecting a specific piece of the quote Erm

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 10 Mar 2016, 8:41 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:I don't expect Ireland to win by 15+ points, but they need to and over Scotland as well to stop being overtaken in the rankings.

It's amazing how some think that shuffling the deck is a sign of good coaching! Bringing new players into the mix for two fairly crucial games or moving others to unfamiliar positions where they haven't had the benefit of 'coaching' is not clever.
Postulating that Jackson is a better Test 12 than Madigan is based on nothing. Paddy isn't playing that well for Ulster at 10 yet Joe should throw him in for a couple of crucial games just to see how much slating he'll get - that would be fantastic man management! Madigan might not be in good form or even very good full stop, but at least from the bench he can play 'off the cuff' and knows the moves.
Payne did nothing wrong other than get injured, so after one game away he should lose the starting shirt that he's fought hard to get and has never shamed it. Better to shift him as a returning player to a position he hasn't started at before in a test!
Isn't coaching about getting synergy, where the team is more than the sum of the parts? Yet the rugby Einsteins out there think it's better to keep tearing up the key partnerships and starting again from scratch.
Can't believe the arguments against Healy either. Yes his performances have been badly down on what they were. However on his day he was one of the few world class forwards that Ireland could field. Buckley has been on good form but from what I've seen he isn't in that class. It is absolutely paramount that Healy is given every chance to get back up to those levels, and equally important to find out at the earliest opportunity if he's totally lost it. It's fine talking about the Connacht set piece, but unless Joe is going to select them en bloc it is irrelevant because translating some of the parts doesn't translate all of the synergy.

As for McFadden on the bench that is indeed indefensible. Stuart Olding should have been there.

Well, where do I start?

1) Of course there are a few fans interested in experimenting for the sake of experimenting, but the main concern is that Schmidt isn't using his best options, nor his best combinations. As well as that some of the tried and tested are simply not up to the task anymore. Change is going to be necessary very soon and many thought the game against Italy would be a good game to start.

2) Who claimed that Jackson is a better test 12? At 10 he hasn't been in his best form recently (frustration and trying too hard due to lack of game time with Ireland, perhaps?) and yet he has still been better than Madigan. His goal kicking has been consistent and both he and Marmion would bring a lot of pace from the bench. Let's not be silly either and treat him like a baby. He is 24, he is a leader who has bossed big European games and he is more than ready for test rugby.

3) Payne isn't really the issue, despite being the scapegoat for the past few seasons. I am happy with him at 13. The problem is the partnership itself. Henshaw is not the best option at 12, he was forced into the position when we had no other options and he has done a good job. However, it isn't his best position, he isn't the best player in that position (he should be behind at least 3 other players honestly) and there was nothing to lose by sticking with McCloskey and Henshaw, both in their natural positions. They provided the most spark we have seen in our midfield for a while against a very solid English side, which isn't saying a whole lot honestly.

4) The key partnerships aren't working currently and they won't work in the future. They are ageing and they are ineffective. New options are a necessity, the game against Italy presents a good opportunity to stick with McCloskey and Henshaw, for example. Paddy Jackson on the bench. Craig Gilroy or someone with a shred of attacking flair on the bench, for goodness sake. These aren't drastic changes.

5) You can't believe the arguments against Healy? It is totally irrelevant how good he used to be if he can't produce anything close to that form. Not only has he not been good, he has been a total liability at times, regardless of who he has been partnered alongside. He should be way down the list in terms of our loosehead prop options. Way down. Your argument makes no sense; select a poor scrummager (based on current form of course) over a good scrummager from Connacht because you can't pick the entire Connacht front row? Right...

6) McFadden is indefensible. He wouldn't start for Leinster if everyone was fit. He probably wouldn't even be on the bench. He frequently misses tackles, he often loses the ball in contact and he generally plays like a headless chicken. This is a clear example of favouritism and the only explanation could be that Schmidt sees him as a reliable, dependable all around good guy. That doesn't win test matches. This is a selection call that Declan Kidney would have been absolutely slaughtered for.

As I said yesterday, the calls to get rid of Schmidt are absolutely ridiculous. However, his selections are not helping his case and I don't think he is playing the best team available to him. Either way, he is going to have to make some big calls over the next few seasons. The so-called key players are going to be redundant very, very soon.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 10 Mar 2016, 8:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:What the flip is wrong with the new quoting system on these forums? Every time I try to select a piece of text within a quote it zooms to the bottom of the page, making it impossible to select accurately.

Anyone else having this issue?

It's fine for me. Did you try clearing your browser?

Take that back. Didn't spot that you were selecting a specific piece of the quote Erm

See what I mean? It has happened for a few weeks now, the quoting system has obviously been changed.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 6:09 am

I really am struggling to understand why McCloskey and Jackson have been left out of the match day squad.

McCloskey can feel very let down by Schmidt in my opinion. He played a very good game against England on debut and the centre pairing looked very solid and threatening.

Jackson (although maybe not in best of form in recent weeks, probably due to interruptions with international messing) is still a far better 10 than Madigan.

I am not happy with Zebo at 15 either, excellent on attack but defensive awareness lets him down.

As for McFadden being on the bench...
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 9:26 am

I've yet to see a single post where someone has even tried to defend the inclusion of McFadden which speaks volumes. What does he have that other players who are better than him in every department don't? McCloskey can cover any position better than him for starters and big Stu is even a decent place kicker. If Schmidt comes out with the usual BS about player knowing the systems etc he'll fall flat on his face because then you'd have to ask why McCloskey got a start against England if he didn't know the systems. It stinks very much of chickensh1t from where I'm standing.
Zebo at fullback is another one. Why oh why persist with someone who just doesn't come up to standard in that position. Zebo gets chance after chance and has yet to prove he's actually worth the 1stXV shirt from 15. He's a natural winger and it's doing him such a disservice to play him in a position he doesn't shine in. Mind you I'm no fan of him at 11 either but that's another issue.

I wouldn't want to see a massive reshuffle by Joe just because we're not going to win the championship. He's sticking to the plan, one which will eventually come to fruition I am sure so I can understand that. The selection issues we're all scratching our collective head about I'm not so sure of and would love to get comments from Mr Schmidt to clear these issues up.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri 11 Mar 2016, 9:48 am

He has already given his explanation:

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-explains-bench-calls-paddy-jackson-2652576-Mar2016/

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 9:57 am

If that's the case, why wasn't McCloskey put in at 12 and have Henshaw on the bench as he offers more versatility than McFadden?
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 9:57 am

Although that makes a fair point about versatility it's really a pile of BS spin. You can harp on all you like about versatility but it's the quality those versatile players bring. Madigan, fair enough, can bring something off the bench at 10 and 12. He can do a really good job in those positions. McFadden brings absolutely nothing to any position IMO so that's where Joe's spin falls flat. I.M.O.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 9:58 am

eirebilly wrote:If that's the case, why wasn't McCloskey put in at 12 and have Henshaw on the bench as he offers more versatility than McFadden?

+1

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 10:10 am

I just simply don't buy this versatility explanation. There are enough players in the squad now that can cover several positions should an injury occur. What Ireland need is a specialist 10 on the bench for the backs, not another versatile player.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri 11 Mar 2016, 10:20 am

McFadden really is a disgraceful call. As I said before he wouldn't even be in the match day squad for Leinster if everyone was fit. His versatility is a moot point if he isn't actually that good in any of the positions he plays. If Madigan was selected for his ability to play 10/12 then surely a half decent back three player could have been selected?

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by carpet baboon Fri 11 Mar 2016, 10:51 am

McFadden is only there to cover wing? So why not gilroy? Healy? Even ringrose has played wing

carpet baboon

Posts : 2569
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 11:00 am

McFadden apparently has the versatility to cover wing and centre, two positions I guarantee he'd be outplayed by any just mentioned and including McCloskey.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by carpet baboon Fri 11 Mar 2016, 11:13 am

10 years ago McFadden showed the potential to be a very good goal kicking centre. His loyalty to Leinster meant that he never developed as a centre but I stead became a decent winger. Now we have players that can do both better than him.
What annoys me most is not that were losing while trying to play a more expansive game, it's that apart from forced by injury, were not even attempting to see what options we have.
Will it be the same during the summer tour? Or will players get a chance

carpet baboon

Posts : 2569
Join date : 2014-05-08
Location : Midlands

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:52 pm

This is what will happen on Saturday. Payne will stub his toe after 5mins, go off to be replaced by McFadden. McFadden then runs riot scoring 4 try's in a simply outstanding Ireland win...
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:56 pm

eirebilly wrote:This is what will happen on Saturday. Payne will stub his toe after 5mins, go off to be replaced by McFadden. McFadden then runs riot scoring 4 try's in a simply outstanding Ireland win...

Fate and karma always gang up on me and kick me in the hole to teach me not to open my trap. Every bad thing I've said about McFadden will turn on it's head. I'll not complain if it happens mind you. Go on Fergus, prove us all wrong.

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 12:57 pm

I must be on the pints too early on a Friday there Pete Very Happy
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by rodders Fri 11 Mar 2016, 1:35 pm

eirebilly wrote:I just simply don't buy this versatility explanation.

Of course he's versatile, he's rubbish in every position. angel
rodders
rodders
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25501
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 40

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 1:50 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I just simply don't buy this versatility explanation.

Of course he's versatile, he's rubbish in every position. angel

Laugh

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Fri 11 Mar 2016, 1:51 pm

eirebilly wrote:I must be on the pints too early on a Friday there Pete Very Happy

Is it ever too early for the drink Billy ??? Smile

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by westisbest Fri 11 Mar 2016, 1:57 pm

Shame for McCloskey.
Thought he did ok v England.
Was looking forward to seeing him play tomorrow.

Would have kept him in and maybe put Payne at fb with Zebo on the bench, or have Payne on bench.

Be good to get the centre pairing of Henshaw & McCloskey playing some games together.

westisbest

Posts : 7678
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Bournemouth

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by The Great Aukster Fri 11 Mar 2016, 2:16 pm

Munchkin wrote:Yep, blooding new players against weak opposition is great man management, as is giving players who are considered the future, like Jackson, some much needed game time. When are they going to be given a chance? Against SA? Against the AB?

I will tell you what is very poor man management; giving a young player his first start, one that he played well in, dumping him the next week, and criticising his game to the press. When it goes wrong .... blame the players.

These are two games where the result is more important than the performance or any other consideration. Ireland have to somehow get 15+ points against two improved opponents.

Ireland are expected to win. Why - because the players that Joe has been using in the past couple of championships have delivered the results. Except Joe doesn't have most of those players what with injuries and key players like Sexton, Murray and Healy off form.

Jackson has already been blooded for Ireland, and despite Sexton's indifferent form, he's not playing well enough to put pressure on him starting. Neither is Madigan but at least he is a different type of player so offers an option on the bench. Madigan is still probably a better place kicker than Jackson who blows hot and cold from the tee.

I consider it bad man management to bring an off form player into a misfiring team, and think that Joe has helped Paddy rather than the reverse. These games are high intensity and high scrutiny and what would Paddy glean from them other than frustration? He is likely to learn far more from playing away in South Africa or against the ABs without the forensic Irish media looking for new scapegoats.

To me it's irrelevant if Joe picks a player on form like McCloskey over another who is also on form like Henshaw. Having some form of continuity and loyalty to partnerships who have delivered like Henshaw and Payne makes sense when there are so many other areas that really need attention. Bringing McCloskey in for an injury on debut is good man management because it reduces the pressure on him. However one decent game shouldn't guarantee him the shirt. All that would do is encourage players to play while secretly injured because they wouldn't want to risk their place to the next one game stand-in. McCloskey had a decent game but he wasn't outstanding either - Ireland still lost. He wasn't "dumped" either - the injured player he covered for got fit again. If Stuart wants to grab the shirt for himself he needs to know 'outstanding' is what is required and that requires work hence Joe's mild rebuke to the media.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Hoonercat Fri 11 Mar 2016, 2:25 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Most of the arguments and debate on selection is on the back line and Joe's leinster bias in selection there. Sexton is the only Leinster player starting in the backline this weekend.

But even so that focus misses the point.  Italy lost by 2 points (and a stupid drop kick attempt by Parisse) to France.  We lost by 1 point.  Yet everyone is expecting us to win by 15+ points at the weekend. Feck the back line, the pressure should be on an underperforming pack to man up and keep Italy from taking this game by the scruff of the neck walking away with the W.

I agree.
I've got Italy down for the win on the predictions thread. Sorry. Now, that's not because I'm convinced they will win - in fact I'll be surprised if they do, but the way the Irish pack are playing leaves me thinking this will be Italy's best chance of beating Ireland in a long time, and Italy will be only too aware of that, their pack in particular. You can argue about the backs all day long, it doesn't matter who is picked if the pack don't up their game.

Hoonercat

Posts : 397
Join date : 2015-03-23

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 4:57 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:

These are two games where the result is more important than the performance or any other consideration. Ireland have to somehow get 15+ points against two improved opponents.

Ireland are expected to win. Why - because the players that Joe has been using in the past couple of championships have delivered the results. Except Joe doesn't have most of those players what with injuries and key players like Sexton, Murray and Healy off form.

Jackson has already been blooded for Ireland, and despite Sexton's indifferent form, he's not playing well enough to put pressure on him starting. Neither is Madigan but at least he is a different type of player so offers an option on the bench. Madigan is still probably a better place kicker than Jackson who blows hot and cold from the tee.

I consider it bad man management to bring an off form player into a misfiring team, and think that Joe has helped Paddy rather than the reverse. These games are high intensity and high scrutiny and what would Paddy glean from them other than frustration? He is likely to learn far more from playing away in South Africa or against the ABs without the forensic Irish media looking for new scapegoats.

To me it's irrelevant if Joe picks a player on form like McCloskey over another who is also on form like Henshaw. Having some form of continuity and loyalty to partnerships who have delivered like Henshaw and Payne makes sense when there are so many other areas that really need attention. Bringing McCloskey in for an injury on debut is good man management because it reduces the pressure on him. However one decent game shouldn't guarantee him the shirt. All that would do is encourage players to play while secretly injured because they wouldn't want to risk their place to the next one game stand-in. McCloskey had a decent game but he wasn't outstanding either - Ireland still lost. He wasn't "dumped" either - the injured player he covered for got fit again. If Stuart wants to grab the shirt for himself he needs to know 'outstanding' is what is required and that requires work hence Joe's mild rebuke to the media.

This year Paddy has been accurate with the boot and (I believe) has a higher percentage than Madigan. There can also be no question that Paddy is a far more complete 10 than Madigan. Do you really think that Schmidt will pick Paddy against the AB's or SA when he wont pick him against Italy? I seriously doubt that. Paddy's only chance of selection is if Sexton and Madigan get injured, even then he would probably pick McFadden to cover 10 ahead of him Wink ...

McCloskey can feel very hard done by. he had a very good game against England and he and Henshaw looked very comfortable together. I understand Schmidt wants Payne at 13 but why not select a specialist 12 and have Henshaw on the bench or playing 15? These are not big changes but would bring a better balance to the backline.

People may defend Schmidt until the cows come in but the selection of McFadden is indefensible... Extremely poor man management in that selection.



Last edited by eirebilly on Fri 11 Mar 2016, 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 4:58 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I must be on the pints too early on a Friday there Pete Very Happy

Is it ever too early for the drink Billy ??? Smile

Herself seems to think so Wink
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Don Alfonso Fri 11 Mar 2016, 5:46 pm

I very much hope the top story on this website turns out to be nonsense. Anybody know if this site is reputable?

https://realrugbydaily2016.wordpress.com/



Don Alfonso

Posts : 2682
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 45
Location : The 'Shaft

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 5:53 pm

Time will tell Don but I doubt it very much personally.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by theslosty Fri 11 Mar 2016, 6:25 pm

Why is Sexton continually being labelled as in "bad form"? I can accept he's not been himself for Leinster but could anyone point out what exactly he's done wrong in this year's 6N?
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Fri 11 Mar 2016, 6:33 pm

theslosty wrote:Why is Sexton continually being labelled as in "bad form"? I can accept he's not been himself for Leinster but could anyone point out what exactly he's done wrong in this year's 6N?

I think that Schmidt has actually got him playing better than he has been at club level. He has been very good in the 6N.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Engine#4 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 12:22 pm

theslosty wrote:Why is Sexton continually being labelled as in "bad form"? I can accept he's not been himself for Leinster but could anyone point out what exactly he's done wrong in this year's 6N?

+1. Played well vs Connacht and was MOM vs Biggar and the Ospreys back in January too.

Engine#4

Posts : 563
Join date : 2013-09-27

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by profitius Sat 12 Mar 2016, 12:22 pm

Tumbleweed


The excitement is building.... at the pace of a termite mound. Very Happy
profitius
profitius

Posts : 4567
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 12:26 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:I very much hope the top story on this website turns out to be nonsense. Anybody know if this site is reputable?

https://realrugbydaily2016.wordpress.com/



What was the story Don, the only one I can see is about the Sunwolves

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 12:37 pm

The story was about an as yet unnamed Irish player who played at the RWC and in this 6N who has had a positive test for performance handling drugs.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Sin é Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:06 pm

eirebilly wrote:The story was about an as yet unnamed Irish player who played at the RWC and in this 6N who has had a positive test for performance handling drugs.

Was it Heaslip who failed a drugs test back in 2006 because of his high testesterone levels? He was cleared afterwards.
Sin é
Sin é

Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:09 pm

Cant remember if it was Sin é.

Was not too impressed with Schmidt's interview there, nothing screams being positive.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by JmD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:Cant remember if it was Sin é.

Was not too impressed with Schmidt's interview there, nothing screams being positive.

Especially not: "Performance wise, we're not as far off as the results suggest."

I would suggest that exactly the opposite is true.

JmD

Posts : 523
Join date : 2011-08-21

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by scrummy Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:16 pm

I remember EOS making David Humphreys sit on the bench for a whole six nations without giving him a minute and then David giving up international rugby. Ireland then went to the 2007 World Cup with an out-of-form O'Gara and no real back-up. I happen to think Paddy Jackson is the real deal and the obvious alternative to Sexton. If he's not going to be given a chance then I feel any talk of building a squad and not only a starting XV is total BS.

scrummy

Posts : 37
Join date : 2013-03-01

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:19 pm

Especially when you have McFadden in there ahead of McCloskey scrummy. Not exactly building a squad for the future with those decisions.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:34 pm

Great take there from Trimble to put Ireland on the front foot and then Murray kicks it away. Why FFS?
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by cakeordeath Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:48 pm

This ref is pretty good

cakeordeath

Posts : 1934
Join date : 2012-11-25

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:54 pm

He has been excellent cakeordeath thumbsup
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Golden Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:57 pm

Anyone else see after Earls took his big hit he popped a pill? Any idea what that was? Presume it was a pain killer. Is that allowed?

Golden

Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:59 pm

I noticed that as well Golden, not sure what it was but Earls has not looked right since, missing an easy tackle.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24702
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 50
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by JmD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 1:59 pm

I don't know if I've seen this referee before, but agreed.

Trimble and Earls have both taken early knocks. Thankfully we have the illustrious Fergus McFadden ready to go. With his versatility, he should have no problem coming on for both at the same time.

JmD

Posts : 523
Join date : 2011-08-21

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Pete330v2 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 2:01 pm

Golden wrote:Anyone else see after Earls took his big hit he popped a pill? Any idea what that was? Presume it was a pain killer. Is that allowed?

I thought it was one of his teeth Smile

Pete330v2

Posts : 4083
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March - Page 3 Empty Re: 6N 2016: Ireland v Italy, 12 March

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum