Ospreys 2015/16 Season

First topic message reminder :

True Raven wrote:I'm sure King said he's happy to play anywhere in the back row he just won't play anymore in the 2nd row so hopefully that experiment has come and gone.

It looks like Fia will be starting tomorrow if the training session was anything to go by as he was doing reps with the first team so Jarvis should be planted on the bench

So much for what King wants then TR, ridiculous selection, as for your second sentence correct hope we don't see Jarvis until at least the 70th minute.

Although Lloyd's commitment and tackling record this season was excellent i'm concerned about his long term health.Didn't Tandy see the size of the locks on display in Lyons at the weekend or is he unaware of the size of the locks on display this weekend in the Aviva/PRO12 playoffs.Just don't understand it.Why not regard him as a younger Bearman.

Have the O's announced next season's Captain yet?

mikey_dragon wrote:I would hope for your sake that Lloyd Ashley isn't being considered the third lock, flanker yes but not lock. The third lock should be one of Beard, Thornton or Bernardo. If you don't see it this way then give one of them away to the other welsh teams...

Mikey, I agree the best he should be is 5th choice, but Tandy and Gibbes think differently, also don't think you should include Bernardo as he is probably off.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:

True Raven wrote:Just read Wayne that the WRU paid £125,000 and the ospreys nothing to secure the release of bradleys contract.....that's going to urine off a lot of blues and scarlets fans who think we have far too many NDC atm

Where did you read that TR? because it's been mentioned a number of times that the Blues wouldn't pay the required amount to see him come back to them, and we would.
I think I've found where you read it, the Eastern Fail, an article by Delme Parfitt, the ONLY attributable part of that article is the comment by Cardiff Blues CEO, Richard Holland stating they were not prepared to pay the Transfer Fee, all the rest is supposition and from where it comes it says it all

The article also says

"It’s understood the financial agreement is a complex one, and that parties other than the WRU may have contributed to the amount paid.  But WalesOnline has been told the Ospreys did not pay any share towards a transfer fee and were not party to negotiations to free Davies contractually.


I think it is a case of people assuming the Union have stepped in and played the hero, as opposed to the Ospreys doing it themselves.  Personally I don't see too much of a problem with it, even if it does turn out the union has paid the transfer fee.  I am a bit annoyed by the Ospreys tactics surrounding the NDCs etc, but it is business and to be honest they are the most professional business of the four of us.

SS, I don't know what upsets you about our NDC tactics, but if Gatland comes along and offers 4 players wages to the Scarlets for a number of years your management would snatch the offer, that is all we have done, I'm well documented on here saying that Baker, Thornton and King don't deserve DCs of the last input, but if Gatland did the same to you, I would have no qualms about your role in the matter.

exile jack wrote:Although Lloyd's commitment and tackling record this season was excellent i'm concerned about his long term health.Didn't Tandy see the size of the locks on display in Lyons at the weekend or is he unaware of the size of the locks on display this weekend in the Aviva/PRO12 playoffs.Just don't understand it.Why not regard him as a younger Bearman.

Have the O's announced next season's Captain yet?

Yes I agree Jack about your first paragraph, and I can't see it being any other than AWJ again for the captaincy.

Wayne, there was the whole issue earlier in the season where the union pulled a NDC from the table due to the business tactics employed by the Ospreys. It will always leave a foul taste for me that one. And now there are players who arguably should have ended up at the Dragons and Blues who are at the Liberty on NDCs (although I do believe that the players have the right to play where they chose and not be forced into playing somewhere). These seem to be not quite in the spirit of the RSA and the NDCs. However, it is a professional sport, and success comes to those that run things as a professional business. Of all the four regions, the Ospreys are the ones that are the most professional as a business.

With the squad they have, and the additional rest weekends/youth matches in the RCC2, I do believe that the Ospreys will most likely be in the playoffs next season, and be the top region too.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wayne, there was the whole issue earlier in the season where the union pulled a NDC from the table due to the business tactics employed by the Ospreys.  It will always leave a foul taste for me that one.  And now there are players who arguably should have ended up at the Dragons and Blues who are at the Liberty on NDCs (although I do believe that the players have the right to play where they chose and not be forced into playing somewhere).  These seem to be not quite in the spirit of the RSA and the NDCs.  However, it is a professional sport, and success comes to those that run things as a professional business.  Of all the four regions, the Ospreys are the ones that are the most professional as a business.

With the squad they have, and the additional rest weekends/youth matches in the RCC2, I do believe that the Ospreys will most likely be in the playoffs next season, and be the top region too.

SS, you need to go back and take a look at what you said at the time of the Scott Williams fiasco, you agreed at the time that we had done nothing wrong, if it wasn't for us offering a decent wage for Scott, he would either have been short changed by the WRU and yourselves or gone to England, it was only then that you came in and matched our offer. We did nothing wrong, just plain business. As you have already said we have the most professional nous in Welsh Rugby.

wayne wrote:SS, I don't know what upsets you about our NDC tactics, but if Gatland comes along and offers 4 players wages to the Scarlets for a number of years your management would snatch the offer, that is all we have done

Is that a fact? Or is it the other way around - the Ospreys going to the Union?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:SS, I don't know what upsets you about our NDC tactics, but if Gatland comes along and offers 4 players wages to the Scarlets for a number of years your management would snatch the offer, that is all we have done

Is that a fact? Or is it the other way around - the Ospreys going to the Union?

Are you really being serious? Why don't the other Regions go to Gatland and offer up 4 names for DCs, you like ourselves would be laughed out of Westgate Street.
He picks who he wants, NOT the other way round.

Could you point me in the direction of some evidence for this?

IF and it is a big if, Delme Dimwit is correct and the WRU paid the £125000 to Wasps for Davies to return to Wales, why did he (Davies)not take the option to return to the Blues, which is his first option, as it was with Lydiate, the question that needs to be asked, is why neither wanted to return to their original Regions? I know what the answer is for Lydiate, time will tell what it might be for BBBD.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Could you point me in the direction of some evidence for this?

No of course I can't, and neither can you for your supposition.

wayne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Could you point me in the direction of some evidence for this?

No of course I can't, and neither can you for your supposition.

I see, so you have no evidence that it's WRU-led, but that didn't stop you stating as a matter of fact that 'he (Gatland) picks who he wants, NOT the other way round'. I'm not sure it's wise to state as fact things you don't know to be true.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Could you point me in the direction of some evidence for this?

No of course I can't, and neither can you for your supposition.

I see, so you have no evidence that it's WRU-led, but that didn't stop you stating as a matter of fact that 'he (Gatland) picks who he wants, NOT the other way round'. I'm not sure it's wise to state as fact things you don't know to be true.

It is not as far fetched to suggest it is not WRU led as against Region led, as Gatland has a very long record of picking who he wants, whether it be Coaches or Players in the Welsh set up, when there have been very many voices against his picks.
The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?

wayne wrote:IF and it is a big if, Delme Dimwit is correct and the WRU paid the £125000 to Wasps for Davies to return to Wales, why did he (Davies)not take the option to return to the Blues, which is his first option, as it was with Lydiate, the question that needs to be asked, is why neither wanted to return to their original Regions? I know what the answer is for Lydiate, time will tell what it might be for BBBD.

Cardiff wouldn't stump up the money. Be that transfer fee and / or wages.

I think that Cardiff have finally worked out that having lots of Team Wales players is counter productive. I wonder when Robert Davies will wake up to that fact, too?

He should do when he sees these facts:

(last 3 yrs) Os are W33 D1 L8 for 144 pts in normal P12 matches: 7-2-15 for 41 pts during window.

So 144 points in 40 games v 41 points in 24 games.

PhilBB wrote:

wayne wrote:IF and it is a big if, Delme Dimwit is correct and the WRU paid the £125000 to Wasps for Davies to return to Wales, why did he (Davies)not take the option to return to the Blues, which is his first option, as it was with Lydiate, the question that needs to be asked, is why neither wanted to return to their original Regions? I know what the answer is for Lydiate, time will tell what it might be for BBBD.

Cardiff wouldn't stump up the money. Be that transfer fee and / or wages.

I think that Cardiff have finally worked out that having lots of Team Wales players is counter productive. I wonder when Robert Davies will wake up to that fact, too?

He should do when he sees these facts:

(last 3 yrs) Os are W33 D1 L8 for 144 pts in normal P12 matches: 7-2-15 for 41 pts during window.

So 144 points in 40 games v 41 points in 24 games.

And then when you come to Europe and the business end of the season, you lose because you're first team is not good enough to compete. See the Scarlets this year. I'd rather Bradley Davies come into improve the first team so we're more competitive against the top teams than bring in George Earle who will be around all season but hasn't the quality to match the top teams

True Raven wrote:
And then when you come to Europe and the business end of the season, you lose because you're first team is not good enough to compete.  See the Scarlets this year.  I'd rather Bradley Davies come into improve the first team so we're more competitive against the top teams than bring in George Earle who will be around all season but hasn't the quality to match the top teams

I'm not so sure about that as a good 'team' will always do well against a team of big names who haven't had the time together. For example, Exeter should be fresh in your memory.

The Os have built a good team, and paid for much of 40% of it, for outside of the windows. I'm absolutely amazed that the WRU are happy for their cash to go on a Tandy-coached team, but that's by the by.

The challenge for the Ospreys will be performing better when the international players are missing for three months plus of the year.

Do not quote me on this, but I am sure the player gets to chose the team he "comes back to" doesn't he ? Unless of course only one team decides to stump up the 40% of the NDC.

LordDowlais wrote:Do not quote me on this, but I am sure the player gets to chose the team he "comes back to" doesn't he ? Unless of course only one team decides to stump up the 40% of the NDC.

Yes, really surprisingly since the abolition of the Slave Trade, a human gets to choose his employers.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Do not quote me on this, but I am sure the player gets to chose the team he "comes back to" doesn't he ? Unless of course only one team decides to stump up the 40% of the NDC.

Yes, really surprisingly since the abolition of the Slave Trade, a human gets to choose his employers.

Well, perhaps that's why so many players have gone to Ospreys on NDC's. Perhaps, due to the abolition of the slave trade, they chose Ospreys over the other three.

LordDowlais wrote:
Well, perhaps that's why so many players have gone to Ospreys on NDC's. Perhaps, due to the abolition of the slave trade, they chose Ospreys over the other three.

Hey, Andy, tell me how many players 'have gone to Ospreys on NDCs'.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?

If you Google Rugby Services Agreement,  you will get among others a link to the WRU website about this agreement, partways down the page is the following.
Players to be offered a new National Dual Contract will be chosen by the National Head Coach and will become WRU employees, which IMO is only common sense, to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous.
Just to put you right, I don't do links, never have and never will, if you want confirmation Google it yourself

PhilBB wrote:

True Raven wrote:
And then when you come to Europe and the business end of the season, you lose because you're first team is not good enough to compete.  See the Scarlets this year.  I'd rather Bradley Davies come into improve the first team so we're more competitive against the top teams than bring in George Earle who will be around all season but hasn't the quality to match the top teams

I'm not so sure about that as a good 'team' will always do well against a team of big names who haven't had the time together. For example, Exeter should be fresh in your memory.

The Os have built a good team, and paid for much of 40% of it, for outside of the windows. I'm absolutely amazed that the WRU are happy for their cash to go on a Tandy-coached team, but that's by the by.

The challenge for the Ospreys will be performing better when the international players are missing for three months plus of the year.

I agree that we need our second stringers (youth team players) to perform better but we just fell short in Europe, lost to Leinster, Ulster and Scarlets with our first team so need some help improving our first team too and I would rather face those teams again with Bradley Davies in the second row instead of Lloyd Ashley

True Raven wrote:
I agree that we need our second stringers (youth team players) to perform better but we just fell short in Europe, lost to Leinster, Ulster and Scarlets with our first team so need some help improving our first team too and I would rather face those teams again with Bradley Davies in the second row instead of Lloyd Ashley

True, but those stats over the last three years speak for themselves.

wayne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?

If you Google Rugby Services Agreement,  you will get among others a link to the WRU website about this agreement, partways down the page is the following.
Players to be offered a new National Dual Contract will be chosen by the National Head Coach and will become WRU employees, which IMO is only common sense, to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous.

I'm content for you to think it's ludicrous.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Well, perhaps that's why so many players have gone to Ospreys on NDC's. Perhaps, due to the abolition of the slave trade, they chose Ospreys over the other three.

Hey, Andy, tell me how many players 'have gone to Ospreys on NDCs'.

What difference does the amount of players on NDC's make ?

Let's be honest, up until this season Ospreys have been the best of a bad bunch, so logic would say to chose to play for the better side.

Gareth Davies, has just said that Bradley Davies wrote a letter stating he wouldn't come back to Wales and play for Cardiff Blues, Richard Holland also said they (Blues) made Davies an offer, but wouldn't pay to buy out his contract.
Martyn Phillips has also said that the process is totally transparent and all the Regions are kept informed of what is going on.
We (Ospreys) are being portrayed as the villain yet again, when it is clear we are nothing of the sort, it happened with Lydiate and now with Davies, what needs to be worked out is why these 2 wouldn't return to their original Regions, whereas somebody like Jonathan Davies did return to the Scarlets.

True Raven wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

wayne wrote:IF and it is a big if, Delme Dimwit is correct and the WRU paid the £125000 to Wasps for Davies to return to Wales, why did he (Davies)not take the option to return to the Blues, which is his first option, as it was with Lydiate, the question that needs to be asked, is why neither wanted to return to their original Regions? I know what the answer is for Lydiate, time will tell what it might be for BBBD.

Cardiff wouldn't stump up the money. Be that transfer fee and / or wages.

I think that Cardiff have finally worked out that having lots of Team Wales players is counter productive. I wonder when Robert Davies will wake up to that fact, too?

He should do when he sees these facts:

(last 3 yrs) Os are W33 D1 L8 for 144 pts in normal P12 matches: 7-2-15 for 41 pts during window.

So 144 points in 40 games v 41 points in 24 games.

And then when you come to Europe and the business end of the season, you lose because you're first team is not good enough to compete.  See the Scarlets this year.  I'd rather Bradley Davies come into improve the first team so we're more competitive against the top teams than bring in George Earle who will be around all season but hasn't the quality to match the top teams

Played 6, lost 6 btw.
And let us not forget that the 4th AI is a killer as it precedes Euro rounds 3 & 4. Team Wales players are more often than not, knackered/broken by then and need a week off.

wayne wrote:Gareth Davies, has just said that Bradley Davies wrote a letter stating he wouldn't come back to Wales and play for Cardiff Blues, Richard Holland also said they (Blues) made Davies an offer, but wouldn't pay to buy out his contract.
Martyn Phillips has also said that the process is totally transparent and all the Regions are kept informed of what is going on.
We (Ospreys) are being portrayed as the villain yet again, when it is clear we are nothing of the sort, it happened with Lydiate and now with Davies, what needs to be worked out is why these 2 wouldn't return to their original Regions, whereas somebody like Jonathan Davies did return to the Scarlets.

Now there's a novelty.
I wouldn't say the Os are villains btw. Just find it strange that they have more DCs than the other 3 put together. Their choice I suppose.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wayne wrote:Gareth Davies, has just said that Bradley Davies wrote a letter stating he wouldn't come back to Wales and play for Cardiff Blues, Richard Holland also said they (Blues) made Davies an offer, but wouldn't pay to buy out his contract.
Martyn Phillips has also said that the process is totally transparent and all the Regions are kept informed of what is going on.
We (Ospreys) are being portrayed as the villain yet again, when it is clear we are nothing of the sort, it happened with Lydiate and now with Davies, what needs to be worked out is why these 2 wouldn't return to their original Regions, whereas somebody like Jonathan Davies did return to the Scarlets.

Now there's a novelty.
I wouldn't say the Os are villains btw. Just find it strange that they have more DCs than the other 3 put together. Their choice I suppose.

Seems to me NDCs are sorting the Gatamites from those players with a brain/ounce of loyalty.

If the O's want to shoehorn the Lydiates and BBBDs of this world into their team when neither of them add anything in terms of solving their weaknesses, more fool them. Gatland's bitches.

The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

mikey_dragon wrote:The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

Do they need someone who can only tackle? I'm not sure even we would be desperate enough for that. Lydiate fundamentally unbalanced every back row he plays in.

No I think they need a lot more, but surely someone who can tackle would have been and still be top of their list? Lydiate works very well as part of a unit. People who can't play in any unit are the guys who unbalance a back-row. Some examples would be Aaron Shingler, Tom Croft and Tom Wood.

mikey_dragon wrote:No I think they need a lot more, but surely someone who can tackle would have been and still be top of their list? Lydiate works very well as part of a unit. People who can't play in any unit are the guys who unbalance a back-row. Some examples would be Aaron Shingler, Tom Croft and Tom Wood.

That's a nonsense sorry. The game has passed Lydiate by. Like any limited player he will always unbalance a unit as other players need to carry his limitations.

No it isn't a nonsense. The proof is this - Lydiate is first choice for Wales and proved the nay-sayers crying for Warburton Tipuric back-row wrong. Shingler, Croft and Wood can't get into their international team. The former two will be lucky to be club starters this coming season - a shame for Croft actually because there was a time when he was an England regular, but that game has moved on since then, even Gatland acknowledges this.

wayne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?

If you Google Rugby Services Agreement,  you will get among others a link to the WRU website about this agreement, partways down the page is the following.
Players to be offered a new National Dual Contract will be chosen by the National Head Coach and will become WRU employees, which IMO is only common sense, to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous.
Just to put you right, I don't do links, never have and never will, if you want confirmation Google it yourself

aka Dark Matter; can't see it, but we know it's there somewhere.

mikey_dragon wrote:No it isn't a nonsense. The proof is this - Lydiate is first choice for Wales and proved the nay-sayers crying for Warburton Tipuric back-row wrong. Shingler, Croft and Wood can't get into their international team. The former two will be lucky to be club starters this coming season - a shame for Croft actually because there was a time when he was an England regular, but that game has moved on since then, even Gatland acknowledges this.

No, all that proves is Lydiate is good at Cementball - you know, that appalling system that is two from twenty-eight against the world's best where players arw picked accorfing tl that well known rugby testing scale the barbell bench press. Wales' back row is just as limited by Lydiate. He can't carry, could be outpaced by a pensioner and the one trick he has in his arsenal is increasingly illegal. Cracknell brings more to the O's than bloody Lydiate, that's a sorry state of affairs for anyone touted as the best in Wales.

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wayne, there was the whole issue earlier in the season where the union pulled a NDC from the table due to the business tactics employed by the Ospreys.  It will always leave a foul taste for me that one.  And now there are players who arguably should have ended up at the Dragons and Blues who are at the Liberty on NDCs (although I do believe that the players have the right to play where they chose and not be forced into playing somewhere).  These seem to be not quite in the spirit of the RSA and the NDCs.  However, it is a professional sport, and success comes to those that run things as a professional business.  Of all the four regions, the Ospreys are the ones that are the most professional as a business.

With the squad they have, and the additional rest weekends/youth matches in the RCC2, I do believe that the Ospreys will most likely be in the playoffs next season, and be the top region too.

SS, you need to go back and take a look at what you said at the time of the Scott Williams fiasco, you agreed at the time that we had done nothing wrong, if it wasn't for us offering a decent wage for Scott, he would either have been short changed by the WRU and yourselves or gone to England, it was only then that you came in and matched our offer. We did nothing wrong, just plain business. As you have already said we have the most professional nous in Welsh Rugby.

Think we have crossed wires here. I'm saying the same thing still, the Ospreys didn't do anything 'wrong', and did 'good business' but that doesn't mean it feels right, if that makes sense. A bit like salary caps in France for example, some teams push the limits as far as possible, but if they have not broken any rules then it's actually good business by them, whether people like it or not.

mikey_dragon wrote:The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

Unfortunately the 'galacticos' tag that sh1thouse Howell from the western hate mail gave us back in 2010 does still follow us around, why some of our fans still believe this I don't know, especially given the Os retched season and our usual European cup campaigns. I guess the popularity of Biggar & co after the RWC makes kids outside the region like us.
Stone has a good point on Lydiate. While he's great at what he does, I think we're more effective with King or Cracknell in at 6. Bernado is probably off due to BD signing. Shame as he and AWJ were a good pairing..

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Well, perhaps that's why so many players have gone to Ospreys on NDC's. Perhaps, due to the abolition of the slave trade, they chose Ospreys over the other three.

Hey, Andy, tell me how many players 'have gone to Ospreys on NDCs'.

What difference does the amount of players on NDC's make ?

Let's be honest, up until this season Ospreys have been the best of a bad bunch, so logic would say to chose to play for the better side.

I want to know how many have chosen 'Ospreys over the three' as you wrote 'so many'.

In fact, 'so many' is two. Just two. Which isn't 'many' at all, so you were wrong to make that claim.

wayne wrote:Gareth Davies, has just said that Bradley Davies wrote a letter stating he wouldn't come back to Wales and play for Cardiff Blues, Richard Holland also said they (Blues) made Davies an offer, but wouldn't pay to buy out his contract.
Martyn Phillips has also said that the process is totally transparent and all the Regions are kept informed of what is going on.
We (Ospreys) are being portrayed as the villain yet again, when it is clear we are nothing of the sort, it happened with Lydiate and now with Davies, what needs to be worked out is why these 2 wouldn't return to their original Regions, whereas somebody like Jonathan Davies did return to the Scarlets.

Davies couldn't return to Cardiff as they wouldn't stump up the cash. The 'letter' is about the need to 'turn down' the 'region of origin' as per the RSA.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wayne wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wayne wrote:The Regions (Ospreys) don't select who they want on NDCs it is Gatlands whim.

The WRU has to agree to any NDC, obviously, but do you know for a fact that the Ospreys aren't going to the WRU with requests?

If you Google Rugby Services Agreement,  you will get among others a link to the WRU website about this agreement, partways down the page is the following.
Players to be offered a new National Dual Contract will be chosen by the National Head Coach and will become WRU employees, which IMO is only common sense, to suggest they are put forward by the Regions is ludicrous.
Just to put you right, I don't do links, never have and never will, if you want confirmation Google it yourself

aka Dark Matter; can't see it, but we know it's there somewhere.

You ought to know the saying "there are none so blind as they who don't want to see" that applies perfectly to you. There is nobody more inept at finding out information on these boards than myself, and I found it very easily

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:No it isn't a nonsense. The proof is this - Lydiate is first choice for Wales and proved the nay-sayers crying for Warburton Tipuric back-row wrong. Shingler, Croft and Wood can't get into their international team. The former two will be lucky to be club starters this coming season - a shame for Croft actually because there was a time when he was an England regular, but that game has moved on since then, even Gatland acknowledges this.

No, all that proves is Lydiate is good at Cementball - you know, that appalling system that is two from twenty-eight against the world's best where players arw picked accorfing tl that well known rugby testing scale the barbell bench press. Wales' back row is just as limited by Lydiate. He can't carry, could be outpaced by a pensioner and the one trick he has in his arsenal is increasingly illegal. Cracknell brings more to the O's than bloody Lydiate, that's a sorry state of affairs for anyone touted as the best in Wales.

Let's backtrack here a moment - you said he fundamentally unbalances every back-row he plays in. I showed you that he doesn't, and the Lydiate/Warburton combo has proven to be better than the Warburton/Tipuric one on a number of occasions. I also pointed out the actual flankers that create unbalance for teams. Your comments on him here are old, they would have been true if you had said it the season he arrived back from France, got injured, and was thrust into a game against South Africa. You can't have watched him this season if that's your opinion right now. He wasn't really needed at the Ospreys - they have a number of back-row players and settled combo's, but often feel obliged to play him because of the NDC. They probably should have put their hands up and said he wasn't needed, but in the Tandy show anything goes. That said, King, Lydiate and Cracknell also worked pretty well.

Breadvan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

Unfortunately the 'galacticos' tag that sh1thouse Howell from the western hate mail gave us back in 2010 does still follow us around, why some of our fans still believe this I don't know, especially given the Os retched season and our usual European cup campaigns. I guess the popularity of Biggar & co after the RWC makes kids outside the region like us.
Stone has a good point on Lydiate. While he's great at what he does, I think we're more effective with King or Cracknell in at 6. Bernado is probably off due to BD signing. Shame as he and AWJ were a good pairing..

Breadvan, the galacticos tag is very rarely used by ourselves, it's only uninformed idiots that continue to use it.
If anybody wants to bother to look you'll find I was never in favour of going in for Lydiate, as long as players were selected in their proper positions (King and Ardron at 6) there was more need for that money to be used elsewhere, it is funny now that when I asked what was Lydiate's attributes when playing for the Dragons other than tackling, I was met with a wall of silence, now these same people are coming out with all this rubbish about him, and let me further add I said a few weeks ago that Cracknell should be selected for a certain match on merit and he was, I would pick him King and a fit Ardron before Lydiate on this seasons form, they can all do multiple tasks, it is only on very few occasions that Lydiate carries or is used as a lineout option, whereas the other 3 do all those facets, admittedly not as good as Dan in the tackling department.
I've already said in earlier pages that I wouldn't have Davies either, Bernardo has been treated poorly by us, using both him and AWJ as our 4 option, with both the youngsters as 5 with Ashley and Dodd in reserve would have been fine, the money could have been used much more prudently on cover for especially Full back and generally as back 3 cover

mikey_dragon wrote:
Let's backtrack here a moment - you said he fundamentally unbalances every back-row he plays in. I showed you that he doesn't, and the Lydiate/Warburton combo has proven to be better than the Warburton/Tipuric one on a number of occasions. I also pointed out the actual flankers that create unbalance for teams. Your comments on him here are old, they would have been true if you had said it the season he arrived back from France, got injured, and was thrust into a game against South Africa. You can't have watched him this season if that's your opinion right now. He wasn't really needed at the Ospreys - they have a number of back-row players and settled combo's, but often feel obliged to play him because of the NDC. They probably should have put their hands up and said he wasn't needed, but in the Tandy show anything goes. That said, King, Lydiate and Cracknell also worked pretty well.

I think that you're analysis on the balance in Team Wales' back row is missing the ingredient of Gethin Jenkins. His ability over the ball allows Lydiate's one dimensional game.

The team isn't as effective in back row terms when Jenkins doesn't play but Lydiate does.

PhilBB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:
Let's backtrack here a moment - you said he fundamentally unbalances every back-row he plays in. I showed you that he doesn't, and the Lydiate/Warburton combo has proven to be better than the Warburton/Tipuric one on a number of occasions. I also pointed out the actual flankers that create unbalance for teams. Your comments on him here are old, they would have been true if you had said it the season he arrived back from France, got injured, and was thrust into a game against South Africa. You can't have watched him this season if that's your opinion right now. He wasn't really needed at the Ospreys - they have a number of back-row players and settled combo's, but often feel obliged to play him because of the NDC. They probably should have put their hands up and said he wasn't needed, but in the Tandy show anything goes. That said, King, Lydiate and Cracknell also worked pretty well.

I think that you're analysis on the balance in Team Wales' back row is missing the ingredient of Gethin Jenkins. His ability over the ball allows Lydiate's one dimensional game.

The team isn't as effective in back row terms when Jenkins doesn't play but Lydiate does.

That's interesting, but Warburton and Faletau are also good over the ball .

wayne wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

Unfortunately the 'galacticos' tag that sh1thouse Howell from the western hate mail gave us back in 2010 does still follow us around, why some of our fans still believe this I don't know, especially given the Os retched season and our usual European cup campaigns. I guess the popularity of Biggar & co after the RWC makes kids outside the region like us.
Stone has a good point on Lydiate. While he's great at what he does, I think we're more effective with King or Cracknell in at 6. Bernado is probably off due to BD signing. Shame as he and AWJ were a good pairing..

Breadvan, the galacticos tag is very rarely used by ourselves, it's only uninformed idiots that continue to use it.
If anybody wants to bother to look you'll find I was never in favour of going in for Lydiate, as long as players were selected in their proper positions (King and Ardron at 6) there was more need for that money to be used elsewhere, it is funny now that when I asked what was Lydiate's attributes when playing for the Dragons other than tackling, I was met with a wall of silence, now these same people are coming out with all this rubbish about him, and let me further add I said a few weeks ago that Cracknell should be selected for a certain match on merit and he was, I would pick him King and a fit Ardron before Lydiate on this seasons form, they can all do multiple tasks, it is only on very few occasions that Lydiate carries or is used as a lineout option, whereas the other 3 do all those facets, admittedly not as good as Dan in the tackling department.
I've already said in earlier pages that I wouldn't have Davies either, Bernardo has been treated poorly by us, using both him and AWJ as our 4 option, with both the youngsters as 5 with Ashley and Dodd in reserve would have been fine, the money could have been used much more prudently on cover for especially Full back and generally as back 3 cover

Totally forgot about Ardron. Missed the entire season didn't he? Agree on the fb cover. Sam seems to be the only option at the moment.

Breadvan wrote:

wayne wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The thing for me is this; Ospreys are still billed up as this all-conquering galacticos, very much the glamour team, the Welsh aristocrats by the media and always have been. Those days, if they were ever here, are long gone. Much to my dislike a lot of 'fans' and to my surprise some players actually still believe this hype. Hence why you find kids in the valleys wearing Ospreys jerseys and parading those awful banners proclaiming (without substance) the One True Region. This might also explain why Bradley Davies is coming over to you. I'm not entirely sure why Dan did, but if I was given the choice of two I also would have opted for Ospreys. It's a shame the Scarlets didn't come into the mix back then as they really need someone who can tackle.

Unfortunately the 'galacticos' tag that sh1thouse Howell from the western hate mail gave us back in 2010 does still follow us around, why some of our fans still believe this I don't know, especially given the Os retched season and our usual European cup campaigns. I guess the popularity of Biggar & co after the RWC makes kids outside the region like us.
Stone has a good point on Lydiate. While he's great at what he does, I think we're more effective with King or Cracknell in at 6. Bernado is probably off due to BD signing. Shame as he and AWJ were a good pairing..

Breadvan, the galacticos tag is very rarely used by ourselves, it's only uninformed idiots that continue to use it.
If anybody wants to bother to look you'll find I was never in favour of going in for Lydiate, as long as players were selected in their proper positions (King and Ardron at 6) there was more need for that money to be used elsewhere, it is funny now that when I asked what was Lydiate's attributes when playing for the Dragons other than tackling, I was met with a wall of silence, now these same people are coming out with all this rubbish about him, and let me further add I said a few weeks ago that Cracknell should be selected for a certain match on merit and he was, I would pick him King and a fit Ardron before Lydiate on this seasons form, they can all do multiple tasks, it is only on very few occasions that Lydiate carries or is used as a lineout option, whereas the other 3 do all those facets, admittedly not as good as Dan in the tackling department.
I've already said in earlier pages that I wouldn't have Davies either, Bernardo has been treated poorly by us, using both him and AWJ as our 4 option, with both the youngsters as 5 with Ashley and Dodd in reserve would have been fine, the money could have been used much more prudently on cover for especially Full back and generally as back 3 cover

Totally forgot about Ardron. Missed the entire season didn't he? Agree on the fb cover. Sam seems to be the only option at the moment.

Breadvan, he played in one game from the start against Zebre away, and got injured again, never even selected from the bench, and where was he selected? 5 of course with Ashley, both Thornton and AWJ were on the bench and came on. Not sure how long he lasted.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:No it isn't a nonsense. The proof is this - Lydiate is first choice for Wales and proved the nay-sayers crying for Warburton Tipuric back-row wrong. Shingler, Croft and Wood can't get into their international team. The former two will be lucky to be club starters this coming season - a shame for Croft actually because there was a time when he was an England regular, but that game has moved on since then, even Gatland acknowledges this.

No, all that proves is Lydiate is good at Cementball  - you know, that appalling system that is two from twenty-eight against the world's best where players arw picked accorfing tl that well known rugby testing scale the barbell bench press. Wales' back row is just as limited by Lydiate. He can't carry, could be outpaced by a pensioner and the one trick he has in his arsenal is increasingly illegal. Cracknell brings more to the O's than bloody Lydiate, that's a sorry state of affairs for anyone touted as the best in Wales.

Let's backtrack here a moment - you said he fundamentally unbalances every back-row he plays in. I showed you that he doesn't, and the Lydiate/Warburton combo has proven to be better than the Warburton/Tipuric one on a number of occasions. I also pointed out the actual flankers that create unbalance for teams. Your comments on him here are old, they would have been true if you had said it the season he arrived back from France, got injured, and was thrust into a game against South Africa. You can't have watched him this season if that's your opinion right now. He wasn't really needed at the Ospreys - they have a number of back-row players and settled combo's, but often feel obliged to play him because of the NDC. They probably should have put their hands up and said he wasn't needed, but in the Tandy show anything goes. That said, King, Lydiate and Cracknell also worked pretty well.

You didn't show me anything, other than a vague hero worship for a limited player. Just because someone else covers his deficiency that does not equal balance. He hasn't improved one iota either for the Os or TW from the many games I've watched him play, despite all the coaching genius of Warren Gatland and Steve Tandridge being applied. Name me one facet he excels in as an established international that isn't tackling. He's the Cuthburt in the pack.

wayne wrote:it is funny now that when I asked what was Lydiate's attributes when playing for the Dragons other than tackling, I was met with a wall of silence, now these same people are coming out with all this rubbish

Almost as funny as your claim that Delve wasnt being paid a massive wage the other week then. Fair play, that's some professional nous right there....