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6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

Seagultaf wrote:
True Raven wrote:Also the decision where foxy got tackled and the ball squirted out to north who had a run in.  To me it looked like an England defender knocked it backwards out of foxys grasp.  It mirrored the Liam Williams tackle in mike brown where he went to the tmo to see if it was a knock on or not.  Why not check both incidents though?

And north from the photos clearly got the ball away before he was out

That's what I Thought also. Not sure who caught the ball when North flicked it in field but he looked clean through on the try line. Very big descision!

Rees Webb!

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Post by Alex_Germany Mon 14 Mar 2016, 7:02 pm

RiscaGame wrote:It appears Marler has got away with the forearm striking, which I don't agree with. Francis has been cited and Haskell got warned for his neck roll. There is no news on the Wail about Marler's slur.

If Francis has been cited, then it's a bit bizarre that he wasn't carded! It means this was a citable offence, in plain view of the ref and video ref, in slow motion. Maybe only one angle, but the angle showed enough.

It seems Joubert made a wrong call.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 14 Mar 2016, 7:11 pm

I'm surprised Joubert didn't take more of a look at it. I am also surprised he and the TMO ignored Marler's forearm. Joubert has seemingly made two wrong calls, though Francis' one is going to look a bigger miss.

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 14 Mar 2016, 10:41 pm

RiscaGame wrote:...I'm surprised Joubert didn't take more of a look at it...
I got the impression Joubert thought he didn't have a good enough view of the screen from the pitch, so wanted the TMO - who had brought the footage to his attention - to be more explicit. The TMO seemed to think Joubert was unmoved by the footage, and so scaled down his own recommendation to play safe.

Perhaps Joubert was just buck-passing, but I think he was entitled to a bit more opinionated input from the TMO.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:40 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
offload wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:In essence there's little wrong with this welsh team and those that think otherwise are just plain foolish:

That's the attitude that results in mediocrity.  Stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's just a blip and that Wales are world champions in waiting.  Performance and results over last three years says otherwise.  

Eight years is too long for this coaching team and a change is needed to get this talented team playing to their potential.

Come on.  You have a name on the tip of your tongue.  You have a candidate in your mind.  Who is it?  Spit it out.  Who is the newly anointed saviour on the wings?

If Dai Young wins silverware at Wasps he's probably next in line. A few more years down the line hopefully we have guys like Danny Wilson and Jason Strange in the mix. Strange will probably be the next Dragons coach.

Presumably if Charlotte Church becomes a rugby coach and wins the European Cup then she'll be a candidate as well?

Wales are lucky to have Gatland. Look at his coaching record. Seriously, type his name into Wikipedia and look at the numerous trophies he's won with several different teams. He is an outstanding coach and there are few better. Wales have improved immeasureably under his tenure, and the team selected against England have plenty more miles go to. I really don't think a 4 point loss to England at Twickenham should act as a starting gun for collective hand-wringing, and nor does a lack of hand-wringing signal an acceptance of mediocrity.

Firstly, I was looking further down the line, to the post Gatland era, not an immediate replacement.

I rate Gatland and his record speaks for itself. That said it doesn't mean I can't disapprove some of the decisions he makes, particularly some of his selections, and not just now btw this is throughout his tenure. You should read what Sir Clive wrote of Gatland last week, I think it was in the telegraph.

Dai Young has more silverware with Blues than just the Amlin cup... He can also be credited with building a good team on the back of a dark era for Welsh rubgy, when idiots with deep pockets had tied his hands behind his back. When he brings in players that are good enough he gets them to perform, Wasps are in outstanding form right now.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:55 am

What else has Dai Young won with Cardiff other than the Amlin?

I'm not suggesting that he isn't the best candidate to replace Gatland, should Wales decide to take that course of action. I think Young is an excellent coach. I just think it's a hard sell given their respective track records.


Last edited by funnyExiledScot on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:03 pm

samuraidragon wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
offload wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Wales are lucky to have Gatland. Look at his coaching record. Seriously, type his name into Wikipedia and look at the numerous trophies he's won with several different teams. He is an outstanding coach and there are few better. Wales have improved immeasureably under his tenure, and the team selected against England have plenty more miles go to. I really don't think a 4 point loss to England at Twickenham should act as a starting gun for collective hand-wringing, and nor does a lack of hand-wringing signal an acceptance of mediocrity.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Gatland is not an outstanding coach, his record is clear.  Wales have improved under his tenure too.  I also agree that the current team has plenty more miles.  Why does any of this mean he has to stay?  Great coaches make an impact and when they stop making an impact they move on - to make an impact somewhere else.  It's not just the last 4 point loss.  I can see no evidence that the Welsh team has moved forward for three years.  How many more years of not progressing should we go through before making a change.

I would say that Wales have been very lucky to have had Gatland for eight years.  Now I want us to be lucky to have the next outstanding coach, to take us forward.  

Whilst I disagree with the conclusion, this is a well constructed argument and a perfectly valid opinion. Who would be better? Very few coaches have a track record remotely comparable to Gatland, so I suppose you'd be looking for a coach associated with a particular playing style allied to the sort of rugby you want Wales to be playing which differs from the current approach. That of course rules out any of the current Welsh coaches, and whilst I rate Dai Young highly he has the dubious distinction of not having won anything. Maybe that isn't important if it's a certain style of play you're looking for, but it's certainly a big gamble. In terms of foreign coaches I would have said Eddie Jones, but he's obviously gone now. I always respected Steve Meehan previously as an innovative backs coach but he's off the radar these days I think.

Wayne Smith?

I don't think Gatland's win percentage with Wales is anything special at all. It's 49%, versus 65% for Mike Rudddock  and 59% for Graham Henry. Furthermore Gatland has been blessed with a crop of quality players that Ruddock and Henry could only dream about.

Against the Southern Hemisphere Big 3, we are well behind Scotland, Ireland and England.

Why are we satisfied with so little?

Apples and oranges, Gatland has had a long career with Wales, far longer than Ruddock. How long was Henry with us?

Firstly, I'd take out the word 'well' there, as we are not well behind. It's only England who have a bit to cheer about in the previous 4 year cycle. They were able to notch up regular wins over Aus (until the RWC), and were the only ones to beat NZ - but they weren't as good against SA. I can only remember Ireland having one good autumn series where they beat Aus and SA. Scotland got the odd win over the years and were winless in some autumn campaigns, whilst they spent most years trying to dodge the wooden spoon, they finished third in the 6N once though.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:07 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:What else has Dai Young won with Cardiff other than the Amlin?

I not suggested that he isn't the best candidate to replace Gatland, should Wales decide to take that course of action. I think Young is an excellent coach. I just think it's a hard sell given their respective track records.

It was the EDF (Anglo-Welsh). It should be noted that back then it was a pretty good competition with the top teams fielding their best XV's, unlike it has been in recent years when it was played on international weekend. His Blues team had a good win ratio against some of Europe's top English and French teams at the time, that's not to be sniffed at. And fact of the matter is that there isn't a better welsh coach if we're going down the route of bringing in a welsh coach. I'd happily take another kiwi after Gatland.

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Post by wrfc1980 Tue 15 Mar 2016, 12:18 pm

Much depends on how you look at Gatlands record. Obviously he has grandslams under his belt which is great. he laso presides over a Wales tema who only win 49% of their games.....that's pretty poor.

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