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6N 2016: Wales vs Italy - Super Saturday

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Mar 2016, 10:44 am

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again. Big win for Wales please, and then back to the drawing board.

Saturday, 19 March
Wales v Italy (Principality Stadium, 14:30 GMT)

Wales 6N 2016: Wales vs Italy - Super Saturday - Page 5 It11

Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Hallam Amos; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee; Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris; Dan Lydiate (C), Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Tomas Francis*, Jake Ball, Ross Moriarty, Gareth Davies, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe.

*Francis is pending disciplinary action, Jarvis is on standby.


Italy 6N 2016: Wales vs Italy - Super Saturday - Page 5 Mb10

TBC


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Tue 15 Mar 2016, 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 6:43 pm

RiscaGame wrote:He wouldn't have taken cuthbert off. Anscombe was pretty average too, despite the game opening up.

Exactly. And it looks as if Priestland's place in the team is safe despite him showing on numerous occasions that he isn't good enough. I believe Anscombe should have been given a run at 10 today.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 6:44 pm

True Raven wrote:Surely Scott Williams is above tyler Morgan?

Maybe in your eyes, but Morgan is a better player and can show that if given more opportunities for Wales. Williams is too similar to JD2.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:00 pm

True Raven wrote:Surely Scott Williams is above tyler Morgan?

Comfortably.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:01 pm

Sadly Tyler seems to be a bit injury prone. I'm not particularly convinced by his defence either.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:10 pm

No surprises here to be honest.

Wales showed what they could do. but only seem to play this way against weaker teams. I cannot honestly say i have seen Wales play this way a against New Zealand, Australia,South Africa.


Still well played Wales for the amount of tries, and the skills that was on display.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:16 pm

It'll be interesting to see how Williams and JD line up next season for the Scarlets as when they first teamed up they play JD at 12 and Williams at 13, the roles seemed to have reversed over time.

How about Anscombe at 12?
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:20 pm

Great display by Wales, Italy again an utter shambles.
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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:32 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:No surprises here to be honest.

Wales showed what they could do. but only seem to play this way against weaker teams. I cannot honestly say i have seen Wales play this way a against New Zealand, Australia,South Africa.

Still well played Wales for the amount of tries, and the skills that was on display.

Still think Wales had more to (OFFER). Could've been much more, bar forcing so much first half and occasionally second half.

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Post by glamorganalun Sat 19 Mar 2016, 11:04 pm

Wales should fast track the U20's wing (Giles) into the squad as Amos and Cuthbert don't seem to be the answer. The Dragons have a good young wing who gets involved and tackles well, I suspect Liam Williams willl end up on the wing when Halfpenny returns.

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Post by Shifty Sat 19 Mar 2016, 11:29 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Wales should fast track the U20's wing (Giles) into the squad as Amos and Cuthbert don't seem to be the answer. The Dragons have a good young wing who gets involved and tackles well,  I suspect Liam Williams willl end up on the wing when Halfpenny returns.

Yup that's my theory too, Halfpenny on the right, North on the left and Liam at Full back.



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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 11:39 pm

Yes he will be wing when 1/2p is fit. Don't think Amos had a fair crack today mind, but dropping that kick back was all cement needed to hook him. Interesting his replacement fast track made more errors though. If cuthbert had done what Amos did/didn't today, he'd have got a full 80, no doubt.


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Post by offload Sun 20 Mar 2016, 9:08 am

Nice to end with a few try's but the scoreline masks the truth that this team is not progressing at all. Once again we failed to convert simple opportunities with poor passing and an inability to create space. We seem to need broken play to score. Good teams don't give you much of that.

My opinion hasn't changed. The coaching team is past their sell buy and I predict a dismal tour to the World Champions.
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Post by exile jack Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:04 pm

Not seen the game on replay yet but my thoughts during and after the game were:
-We have a winger problem so we need to fast track Keelan Giles and/or Ashton Hewitt.If Amos and Cuthbert are to be chosen they should be playing for the Ospreys or Scarlets;
-Not convinced by Anscombe as full back or winger;
-Some of the backplay yesterday would have done credit to the Ozzies and AB's.Unfortunately,some of the passing was nowhere near international standard.JD in particular was very poor;
-there are better captains in the Welsh team than Warbs;
-Dan Biggar can run an international backline but some of his tactical kicking puts Wales into wholly avoidable situations(at least one Italian try yesterday);
-Italian fans yesterday were fantastic. I hope Italy stay in the 6 Nations but these defeats must be soul destroying;
-why don't the Welsh coaching team outlaw missed passes,box-kicks and forwards running 1 up into mutiple contact.


Last edited by exile jack on Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)

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Post by catchweight Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:26 pm

Italy are a shambles. I dont think they deserve their untouchable status in the 6 nations.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:36 pm

exile jack wrote:Not seen the game on replay yet but my thoughts during and after the game were:
-We have a winger problem so we need to fast track Keelan Giles and/or Ashton Hewitt.If Amos and Cuthbert are to be chosen they should be playing for the Ospreys or Scarlets;
-Not convinced by Anscombe as full back or winger;
-Some of the backplay yesterday would have done credit to the Ozzies and AB's.Unfortunately,some of the passing was nowhere near international standard.JD in particular was very poor;
-there are better captains in the Welsh team than Warbs;
-Dan Biggar can run an international backline but some of his tactical kicking puts Wales into wholly avoidable situations(at least one Italian try yesterday);
-Italian fans yesterday were fantastic. I hope Italy stay in the 6 Nations but these defeats must be soul destroying;
-why don't the Welsh coaching team outlaw missed passes,box-kicks and forwards running 1 up into mutiple contact.

How did you work that one out?

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Post by exile jack Sun 20 Mar 2016, 6:20 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
exile jack wrote:Not seen the game on replay yet but my thoughts during and after the game were:
-We have a winger problem so we need to fast track Keelan Giles and/or Ashton Hewitt.If Amos and Cuthbert are to be chosen they should be playing for the Ospreys or Scarlets;
-Not convinced by Anscombe as full back or winger;
-Some of the backplay yesterday would have done credit to the Ozzies and AB's.Unfortunately,some of the passing was nowhere near international standard.JD in particular was very poor;
-there are better captains in the Welsh team than Warbs;
-Dan Biggar can run an international backline but some of his tactical kicking puts Wales into wholly avoidable situations(at least one Italian try yesterday);
-Italian fans yesterday were fantastic. I hope Italy stay in the 6 Nations but these defeats must be soul destroying;
-why don't the Welsh coaching team outlaw missed passes,box-kicks and forwards running 1 up into mutiple contact.

How did you work that one out?

Because I think that the O's and Scarlets have a style and pattern of play better suited to the attacking qualities of HA and AC.No other reason than that.For the avoidance of doubt I am NOT suggesting that any PRO12 welsh region acts as a feeder region for any other.My ideal scenario would be RRW acting to ensure that our 4 regions consistently make top4/top 6 in the PRO12.Perhaps player loans could contribute to that.

As for HA,to tell a player he's being considered as a 15 but then pick him as a winger leaves a bit of an odour for me with regard to player development as does the coaching failure around AC's tackling.Anyway,just one perspective.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:30 pm

exile jack wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
exile jack wrote:Not seen the game on replay yet but my thoughts during and after the game were:
-We have a winger problem so we need to fast track Keelan Giles and/or Ashton Hewitt.If Amos and Cuthbert are to be chosen they should be playing for the Ospreys or Scarlets;
-Not convinced by Anscombe as full back or winger;
-Some of the backplay yesterday would have done credit to the Ozzies and AB's.Unfortunately,some of the passing was nowhere near international standard.JD in particular was very poor;
-there are better captains in the Welsh team than Warbs;
-Dan Biggar can run an international backline but some of his tactical kicking puts Wales into wholly avoidable situations(at least one Italian try yesterday);
-Italian fans yesterday were fantastic. I hope Italy stay in the 6 Nations but these defeats must be soul destroying;
-why don't the Welsh coaching team outlaw missed passes,box-kicks and forwards running 1 up into mutiple contact.

How did you work that one out?

Because I think that the O's and Scarlets have a style and pattern of play better suited to the attacking qualities of HA and AC.No other reason than that.For the avoidance of doubt I am NOT suggesting that any PRO12 welsh region acts as a feeder region for any other.My ideal scenario would be RRW acting to ensure that our 4 regions consistently make top4/top 6 in the PRO12.Perhaps player loans could contribute to that.

As for HA,to tell a player he's being considered as a 15 but then pick him as a winger leaves a bit of an odour for me with regard to player development as does the coaching failure around AC's tackling.Anyway,just one perspective.

Oh okay. Well id say you're wrong. I haven't been impressed with the attacking play from either team. I would persist with Amos on the wing because I know he'll come good again. It's whether or not Gatland affords him half the opportunities Priest and Cuthbert have had.

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Post by exile jack Mon 21 Mar 2016, 6:52 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
exile jack wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
exile jack wrote:Not seen the game on replay yet but my thoughts during and after the game were:
-We have a winger problem so we need to fast track Keelan Giles and/or Ashton Hewitt.If Amos and Cuthbert are to be chosen they should be playing for the Ospreys or Scarlets;
-Not convinced by Anscombe as full back or winger;
-Some of the backplay yesterday would have done credit to the Ozzies and AB's.Unfortunately,some of the passing was nowhere near international standard.JD in particular was very poor;
-there are better captains in the Welsh team than Warbs;
-Dan Biggar can run an international backline but some of his tactical kicking puts Wales into wholly avoidable situations(at least one Italian try yesterday);
-Italian fans yesterday were fantastic. I hope Italy stay in the 6 Nations but these defeats must be soul destroying;
-why don't the Welsh coaching team outlaw missed passes,box-kicks and forwards running 1 up into mutiple contact.

How did you work that one out?

Because I think that the O's and Scarlets have a style and pattern of play better suited to the attacking qualities of HA and AC.No other reason than that.For the avoidance of doubt I am NOT suggesting that any PRO12 welsh region acts as a feeder region for any other.My ideal scenario would be RRW acting to ensure that our 4 regions consistently make top4/top 6 in the PRO12.Perhaps player loans could contribute to that.

As for HA,to tell a player he's being considered as a 15 but then pick him as a winger leaves a bit of an odour for me with regard to player development as does the coaching failure around AC's tackling.Anyway,just one perspective.

Oh okay. Well id say you're wrong. I haven't been impressed with the attacking play from either team. I would persist with Amos on the wing because I know he'll come good again. It's whether or not Gatland affords him half the opportunities Priest and Cuthbert have had.

It was interesting to hear Jason Strange talking on Scrum V about how the U20 coaches speak to Gats' team about player progression for the U20's.I think that's what he said.Presumably,the Regions talk to WRU HQ about player development for the senior players considered ready for the senior squad.I hope they do anyway.I agree HA should be given a proper run as a winger whoever he plays for and not left to wither on the vine.More generally,i'm not sure player treatment and development will be remembered as a glorious chapter in Gats' reign.

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Post by Shifty Mon 21 Mar 2016, 10:16 am

I think the most telling part of the whole afternoon was when George North was asked about the New Zealand tour. One long drawn out Disinterested sigh, and a shake of the head before a diplomatic answer.

29 May / Sunday / England V Wales - Twickenham
11 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Auckland
14 June / Tuesday / Waikato V Wales - Wellington
18 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Welington
25 June / Saturday / New Zealand V Wales - Dunedin

Really Wales should of just played the 2 tests then left.
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Post by Noble-Surfer Mon 21 Mar 2016, 3:36 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Wales should fast track the U20's wing (Giles) into the squad as Amos and Cuthbert don't seem to be the answer. The Dragons have a good young wing who gets involved and tackles well, I suspect Liam Williams will end up on the wing when Halfpenny returns.

I think you're probably right that Williams will be moved to wing to accommodate Halfpenny at fullback when he returns, which I think is a shame, as Williams is a very good 15. I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see them try Williams at fullback, and Halfpenny on the wing- wasn't his first cap on the wing? I know he's a safe pair of hands at fullback, but I feel he's lost some of his attacking threat since playing there- probably as he's been instructed to use his massive boot to return any kicks with interest... I just think Williams plays what he sees a bit better at the moment, and if the option is there to run it, he'll give it a go.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 21 Mar 2016, 3:45 pm

offload wrote:Nice to end with a few try's but the scoreline masks the truth that this team is not progressing at all.  Once again we failed to convert simple opportunities with poor passing and an inability to create space.  We seem to need broken play to score.  Good teams don't give you much of that.  

My opinion hasn't changed.  The coaching team is past their sell buy and I predict a dismal tour to the World Champions.

Ah but we can blame that on the RWC burn out. Next years 6Ns is down to the length of this season burning the players out. The season after is the well documented Lions burnout. So that then brings us to 2019, when we are forced into ditching old heads, bringing in unknowns and catch people off guard and everyone starts saying how good we are again.
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