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France v England - grand slam game

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Post by yappysnap Wed 16 Mar 2016, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

Discuss

ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY FRANCE

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 47 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 20 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 39 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 57 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 31 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 70 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 60 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 3 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 14 caps)
6. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 47 caps)
7. James Haskell (Wasps, 66 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 25 caps)

Replacements
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 2 cap)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins 41 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints 16 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 31 caps)
20. Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 4 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps)
22. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 2 cap)


Last edited by yappysnap on Thu 17 Mar 2016, 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:08 pm

gregortree wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jan/14/sport.comment

Good read that.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:08 pm

Isn't it time we actually talked some rugby?

Lets see - who do we think is going to get the first yellow card on saturday...

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:11 pm

First on Sat? An Italian player.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:12 pm

Ah Thanks gregor.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:18 pm

lostinwales wrote:Isn't it time we actually talked some rugby?

Fat chance I reckon, unfortunately. I bet Samson Lee is cheesed off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35837685

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Post by gregortree Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:20 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
gregortree wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jan/14/sport.comment

Good read that.

TY Dave...found it fascinating myself, never having been aware of this strange story. What a sports board eh ?


From England rugby's  shot at a GS on Saturday, to Cardiff City football c 1989. Only on 606.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:31 pm

gregortree wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
gregortree wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jan/14/sport.comment

Good read that.

TY Dave...found it fascinating myself, never having been aware of this strange story. What a sports board eh ?


From England rugby's  shot at a GS on Saturday, to Cardiff City football c 1989. Only on 606.

Weird or what?
England deserve the slam too. Best team throughout.

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:36 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
gregortree wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
gregortree wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jan/14/sport.comment

Good read that.

TY Dave...found it fascinating myself, never having been aware of this strange story. What a sports board eh ?


From England rugby's  shot at a GS on Saturday, to Cardiff City football c 1989. Only on 606.

Weird or what?
England deserve the slam too. Best team throughout.

Yup. Easily the best team. Can't see them falling at the last hurdle, although it won't be easy. And World Rugby are now trying to derail their Grand Slam, but can't see them being successful.

Good luck England.

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Post by gregortree Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:38 pm

So back to rugby...ty Dave for the kind wishes.
With France being so dire, Ireland a bit green...pardon pun....and the real threat Wales having ...just....been overcome, this finale in Paris usurely has to be England's best chance in years, 13 in fact.

If we can't do it this time, we may not deserve it ever.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 17 Mar 2016, 9:48 pm

Stupid thing is you look at the French line up and there are some very good players

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 10:16 pm

lostinwales wrote:Stupid thing is you look at the French line up and there are some very good players

I agree. They seem to be worse than the sum of their parts. Which suggests coaching, systems, combinations, etc. I'm not sure of the solution for France, but I think we're all (in the UK and Ireland, and even though we're all different between us) in a better place than France in terms of relationships between club and country. I think this is what is hurting the French national team.

I think France will make it difficult on Saturday, but more in a 'speed bump' sort of way. They'll just try to stop England winning out of pride or passion, rather than perhaps going out to excute a winning game plan.

England by 10-15, opening a bigger lead later on.

Griff

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 10:30 pm

gregortree wrote:So back to rugby...ty Dave for the kind wishes.
With France being so dire, Ireland a bit green...pardon pun....and the real threat Wales having ...just....been overcome, this finale in Paris usurely has to be England's best chance in years, 13 in fact.

If we can't do it this time, we may not deserve it ever.

Kind wishes my @rse.
England have been the best and deserve to be where they are so far, but i'd still like to see France turn it on for once and upset the champers and hampers.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 17 Mar 2016, 10:57 pm

Ah Dave I hope Wales give Italy a good hiding.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 11:11 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Ah Dave I hope Wales give Italy a good hiding.

Won't happen, but I would wish that Italy scrape a win.

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Post by majesticimperialman Fri 18 Mar 2016, 6:03 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:Ah Dave I hope Wales give Italy a good hiding.

Won't happen, but I would wish that Italy scrape a win.


Dave, this is just the game that WALES will come out all guns blazing and p-lay for tje full 80 minutes. Or rather like the played against England in the last 20 minute of the game.

And that is because it is ITALY and not the All Blacks.

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Post by Jimpy Fri 18 Mar 2016, 7:42 am

lostinwales wrote:Stupid thing is you look at the French line up and there are some very good players

You can say it until you're blue in the face, but nobody will believe you. I've been saying it since the6N began this year.

If they click - lethal.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Fri 18 Mar 2016, 8:20 am

Jimpy wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Stupid thing is you look at the French line up and there are some very good players

You can say it until you're blue in the face, but nobody will believe you. I've been saying it since the6N began this year.

If they click - lethal.

Noves has certainly identified that his team need to stop England on the gain line, something Ireland and Wales failed to achieve and has picked his large back row accordingly.

As usual England's last fixture is away from home but unusually they have NH ref for this last fixture in the 6N. That will make a difference as England consistently fail to 'manage' SH refs in their last 6N fixtures..

(Distracted) England by 10 points Very Happy

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Post by beshocked Fri 18 Mar 2016, 9:17 am

Bringing in Mako - good call. Marler will probably be a bit distracted with the farce going on behind the scenes.

Mako is used to scrummaging against French opponents. Will add some more bulk to the pack from the start too.



England should win this game. Better organised,better coached, in better form and in my opinion better players.

Though of course it doesn't always work that way but there shouldn't be a lack of belief.

Let's not forget English clubs have been doing very well in Europe this season. Even the Bath boys who have struggled at club level this season will still have fond memories of their strong win vs Toulouse last season.

In contrast this has been a patchy season for both French clubs and the national side.

France might well decide to put in a big performance vs England but it would be going against what we've seen so far in the tournament.


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Post by TightHEAD Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:00 am

Very quite build up for this game in the media and RFU, have they learnt their lessons?

Then I got this in my email box http://www.englandrugbystore.com/stores/ers/en/product/england-2016-rbs-6-nations-champions-t-shirt/180923

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:01 am

They are 6 Nations champions.

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:04 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:They are 6 Nations champions.

That they are but lets aim higher and show some class until the job is done.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:11 am

They're just trying to make some money ahead of the game before hopefully they have to get some new t shirts printed!

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 18 Mar 2016, 11:12 am

Like the RFU need the money
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Post by lostinwales Fri 18 Mar 2016, 12:03 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Like the RFU need the money

We have got to save up for when we have to pay for everybody else's union...

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Post by TightHEAD Fri 18 Mar 2016, 12:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Like the RFU need the money

We have got to save up for when we have to pay for everybody else's union...

and Marlers court fees.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 18 Mar 2016, 12:51 pm

So Jones has said that Vunipola was always likely to start vs France for tactical reasons; keeping it close to the forwards initially making them work hard against strong ball carriers?

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Post by Poorfour Fri 18 Mar 2016, 1:43 pm

Well, there goes the Grand Slam. Last week he predicted Wales would win.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35833543

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Post by whocares Fri 18 Mar 2016, 1:53 pm

Poorfour wrote:Well, there goes the Grand Slam. Last week he predicted Wales would win.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35833543


I for one made fun of some of Guscott recent "analysis" but this one is quite good and the analysis is imo spot on.

"France have made more than twice as many offloads as any other team in the tournament.
They are trying to play off the cuff, but it is so long since they did that as a national side - and so few of their clubs do it in the Top 14 - that they are really struggling to make it work.
They have given away 64 turnovers while England have restricted the opposition to just 45. Nine of those turnovers against France have come inside their own 22, compared to just three conceded by England in that section of the pitch."
In a nutshell this is our problem (also not helped by having average players in most positions).



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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 18 Mar 2016, 2:13 pm

If France click and the crowd get behind them then this might be their game.

It's more likely now Guscott has picked England to win. I was chuffed he didn't last week.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 18 Mar 2016, 2:46 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:If France click and the crowd get behind them then this might be their game.

It's more likely now Guscott has picked England to win.  I was chuffed he didn't last week.

True but the main thing about how England have played so far is the line speed which puts a lot of pressure on the other team to perform. We get a lot of 'bad performances' out of our opponents. Well drilled teams should cope better than disorganised ones and the French team (based on whats happened so far) is poorly organised and may well cope badly.

Having said that its not going to take much for Fofana or the fijian guy to step a couple of defenders and cause mayhem...

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 18 Mar 2016, 2:57 pm

Fair points. It really could go either way. England must start far better than their last two visits to Paris if they are to win.

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Post by beshocked Fri 18 Mar 2016, 4:09 pm

lostinwales it's better to have Fofana on the wing than in the centres in my opinion. In theory anyhow!

Should get less ball.

If France try their reckless offloading and turnover rate then I am sure England will be able to exploit it.

I think the biggest worry is if France keep the offloads to a minimum and manage to hold their own at the set piece.

Hopefully Itoje can attack the French lineout like he has the Italian,Welsh and Irish lineouts so far.

The most obvious thing to do in France is start strong. I think this French team could buckle and be in for a hammering if England get stuck into them early on, they don't have the same belief that Ireland or Wales have.

Plus of course a strong start settles nerves.

England started strong vs Wales and Ireland which lay down the foundations for the wins, didn't take all their chances but created the openings needed.

If I was a French rugby fan I would be wanting Bernard Laporte back.

Still the best French coach around IMO. I know he's wanting to be head of FFR

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Post by robbo277 Fri 18 Mar 2016, 10:10 pm

I think if England start well and defend well they'll be able to strangle France out of the game, which will obviously be Jones' template. If you look at our games so far, we've gone in at half time 7-6 up, 11-9 up, 6-3 up and a slightly anomoulous 16-0 up. In the first 3 games, we kept it tight, tired the opposition and ended up winning the second half by more points to cement the victories (8-3,  29-0 and 15-7 respectively). It's only against Wales the template broke and we ended up losing the second half - but the game was so wildly different to the first 3 in that we had a huge lead, as compared to the other games which remained tight until England cut away (or didn't, in the case of the Scotland game). I don't think this French team are as fit as Wales, as good as Wales or possess as much belief as Wales, so if England are up at half-time I think that will be curtains.

Although, a masochistic part of me is slightly hoping that France score a try or two early, sting England into drastic action and we end up with a game like last year's try-straveganza (with England winning, of course).

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 12:15 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35838833

See the headline writers can now have fun with Eddie, instead of Cement Head. Wonder why the headlines don't attract as much attention anymore?

I expect England to be pretty comfortable tomorrow. I have not been very impressed by France. Wales could even trust their defence v them, so England should win by about ten.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 19 Mar 2016, 12:42 am

robbo277 wrote:I think if England start well and defend well they'll be able to strangle France out of the game, which will obviously be Jones' template. If you look at our games so far, we've gone in at half time 7-6 up, 11-9 up, 6-3 up and a slightly anomoulous 16-0 up. In the first 3 games, we kept it tight, tired the opposition and ended up winning the second half by more points to cement the victories (8-3,  29-0 and 15-7 respectively). It's only against Wales the template broke and we ended up losing the second half - but the game was so wildly different to the first 3 in that we had a huge lead, as compared to the other games which remained tight until England cut away (or didn't, in the case of the Scotland game). I don't think this French team are as fit as Wales, as good as Wales or possess as much belief as Wales, so if England are up at half-time I think that will be curtains.

Although, a masochistic part of me is slightly hoping that France score a try or two early, sting England into drastic action and we end up with a game like last year's try-straveganza (with England winning, of course).
My thoughts about the game are simpler: I have no freakin' idea what French team will show up, nor any idea about how we will start out. I do think Eddie will have the team grounded which is probably all we can ask. If we play conservative, fundamental Rugby, we should win. The try-fest from last year was a bizarre match on a bizarre day, and I doubt that will happen again. I have no respect for Novès after the Florian Fritz episode, and I would enjoy seeing him get smashed.

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 Mar 2016, 4:11 am

Yeah I don't think we'd get a full on game like last year, because it takes two to tango and it just doesn't suit England (although probably would suit France). Last year it suited England and France were happy to go along with it as they are out.

I don't think France will improve massively from last week. They're still searching for their identity and trying to implement a gameplan. They haven't been consistent enough with selection (imo because they didn't get it right first up) and therefore have struggled to really bed in to the tournament. They had a decent enough start with two wins, but they chopped and changed because it just wasn't right and they weren't able to build.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:24 pm

Well can we do it?

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Post by nathan Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:27 pm

I don't think so, but I've just done my first ever bet. £5 on Dan Cole getting a try lol. He's more likely going to get binned

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Post by yappysnap Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:30 pm

Great bet Nathan I think you're on to something there

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:32 pm

Interesting...

Ive got Watson for first try and multiple tries...and James Haskell to get one any time in the game. Don't ask me why just kinda stuck out at me so I picked it.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:34 pm

Mike Brown first try.

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Post by nathan Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:34 pm

yappysnap wrote:Great bet Nathan I think you're on to something there
 Haha, this is why i don't bet. £130 return if he scores

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Post by yappysnap Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:36 pm

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Let's go!!

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Post by nathan Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:37 pm

Can't help but think we'll lose though Sad

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:39 pm

No chance Nathan.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:39 pm

I think we're all having our pre game pessimistic slump!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:40 pm

I've put £25 on France. It will cover any disappointment, and I'm fully expecting France today to be the scintillating, jaw-dropping, world-beating version...c'est magnifique.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:40 pm

No we'll win Nathan...be positive.

It wont be snazzy but they'll be prepared.

Had this been a French side that we wondered which one turned up...I would expect the world beating side to turn up....but aside from Fofana I don't think they have the ability to do that.

Ok now ive just jinxed it and France will play the most sublime attacking rugby like the days gone by!!!!

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Post by nathan Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:40 pm

France are bound to have their one good game

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:43 pm

Also I have to say...Eddie jones interviews always gives me more confidence than Lancaster ever did.

If he does the same with the players then its a boost when they walk out on the pitch.

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