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Dissapointing at very best!

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:19 pm

Thought I'd start a thread on the Marler situation...

I personally thought he'd escape a ban on the elbow as it wasn't a coiled strike, but a push through and I don't think there was anything in it, but thought he might be in trouble due to the race relations act of which travellers are supposedly part of.

Anyway he was found to have done nothing wrong, well not nothing as he apologised, he was reprimanded by an RFU official, and told of his role by his coach etc... but still no action will be taken.

Now this isn't the greatest situation, but isn't the absolute travesty some will make it out to be, however what it is is a let down of the spirit of the sport, no longer can you say rugby is a gentlemans game, or that it's morals are above any other sport.

I find the worst part is the mocking by Eddie Jones, of the WRU and said they didn't know if they were Arthur or Martha, which I get he understands as confusion, but it does have homophobic connotations also.

I find everyone involved in this situation has let themselves, and the sport down, except possibly Samson Lee himself who is the only one not looking ridiculous in the whole thing.

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:30 pm

Seriously????

It's finished with. Find something meaningful to get outraged about.

And you haven't started this subject - this has been done to death over a few other threads.

As I've stated before, the only person who should actually be offended, is Lee. Which he's not.

The Offended at Everything Brigade need to bugger off quite frankly.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:36 pm

Who sai I was offended? I stated that Jones words were dissapointing, and that I'd thought Marler would get a ban...

Maybe be a little less emotional in your response, I'm not vilifying Marler, or Jones to that matter, but the situation leaves a bad taste in the mouth of true fans.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:39 pm

"homophobic connotations"

For the love of God, somebody shoot me.
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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:46 pm

So no debate? Agressive get over it, and mockery?

Just derision about an issue you don't want to talk about?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:52 pm

Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 4:57 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:00 pm

Fanster wrote:So no debate? Agressive get over it, and mockery?

Just derision about an issue you don't want to talk about?

I think the prevailing feeling is just exhaustion

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:02 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Fanster wrote:So no debate? Agressive get over it, and mockery?

Just derision about an issue you don't want to talk about?

I think the prevailing feeling is just exhaustion

My apologies, first time i've logged on in a few days, as I said I don't think it's outrageous, but can see how some would be outraged.

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Post by Blueschief Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:03 pm

It's probably referring to Gats calling it banter then made to apologise for that by the WRU. Think EJ was referring to the WRU, I think he has a point. It's a bit farcical.

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Post by Breadvan Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:06 pm

The mass hysteria,outrage and double standards, especially on Wales rugby on line, is disappointing. I think most true fans were surprised at no ban for the forearm into Evans and a bit 'meh' for the gypsy boy term. Marler apologised. Lee and Gatland accepted. Job done..
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Post by PenfroPete Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:07 pm

Gatland and Lee were/are speaking as individuals, the WRU are speaking as the governing body of rugby union in Wales
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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:12 pm

You could possibly understand why walesonline are going to town, firstly to outrage viewers = money, but also the term has been contraversial for a while, BBC have warned comedy writers etc about it's potential to be racist, depending how used.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:20 pm

Fanster wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Fanster wrote:So no debate? Agressive get over it, and mockery?

Just derision about an issue you don't want to talk about?

I think the prevailing feeling is just exhaustion

My apologies, first time i've logged on in a few days, as I said I don't think it's outrageous, but can see how some would be outraged.

If you have only just logged on then you would have missed the two threads where this was discussed and that have been removed already. It got.... messy

Personally I think all the judgements were correct, unless you consider that Francis was just trying to remove some dirt from Cole's eyes because Cole had his arms trapped. (What he did was needless, reckless and dumb but he has no history of trouble)

The Marler punch - yellow card would have been fair. There was no clear angle and no apparent damage to Evans. I am not sure if you can tell if it even landed, although it probably did. The only thing that could be said with certainty is that Marler did throw a punch.

And its not worth revisiting the other one. Suffice to say that although it touches on dangerous ground all it really shows is how quickly the 'moral majority' can brim over with indignation, when if Marler had used different and potentially more hurtful words there would be no fuss at all. I don't think Lee comes across as a victim and some of the reactions quite honestly trivialize the issues.

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Post by gregortree Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:22 pm

Disappointed with standard of English on 606.

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:24 pm

gregortree wrote:Disappointed with standard of English on 606.

Says the man missing out an important 'the' in his sentence. Rolling Eyes

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Post by damage_13 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:25 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seriously????

It's finished with. Find something meaningful to get outraged about.

And you haven't started this subject - this has been done to death over a few other threads.

As I've stated before, the only person who should actually be offended, is Lee. Which he's not.

The Offended at Everything Brigade need to bugger off quite frankly.

I totally agree, but I got slated on Twitter for pointing out this opens a big can of worms. Gatland got caught out too.

The fact remains in law, someone can get offended on behalf of someone else. International level Sport should be exempt from this kind of thing.

It defies belief than a feeble putdown can be construed as 'racist' purely because it mentions a raced but isn't derogatory to that race.

The welsh are up in arms about it, prominent blogs and accounts are 'seething'


Tw@ts the lot of them


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Post by gregortree Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:27 pm

Griff wrote:
gregortree wrote:Disappointed with standard of English on 606.

Says the man missing out an important 'the' in his sentence. Rolling Eyes
Fair cop guv  clap

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Post by Blueschief Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:28 pm

PenfroPete wrote:Gatland and Lee were/are speaking as individuals, the WRU are speaking as the governing body of rugby union in Wales

I hadn't looked at it that way...good point.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:31 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Fanster wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Fanster wrote:So no debate? Agressive get over it, and mockery?

Just derision about an issue you don't want to talk about?

I think the prevailing feeling is just exhaustion

My apologies, first time i've logged on in a few days, as I said I don't think it's outrageous, but can see how some would be outraged.

If you have only just logged on then you would have missed the two threads where this was discussed and that have been removed already. It got.... messy

Personally I think all the judgements were correct, unless you consider that Francis was just trying to remove some dirt from Cole's eyes because Cole had his arms trapped. (What he did was needless, reckless and dumb but he has no history of trouble)

The Marler punch - yellow card would have been fair. There was no clear angle and no apparent damage to Evans. I am not sure if you can tell if it even landed, although it probably did. The only thing that could be said with certainty is that Marler did throw a punch.

And its not worth revisiting the other one. Suffice to say that although it touches on dangerous ground all it really shows is how quickly the 'moral majority' can brim over with indignation, when if Marler had used different and potentially more hurtful words there would be no fuss at all. I don't think Lee comes across as a victim and some of the reactions quite honestly trivialize the issues.

See now that post seems a bit one eyed, granted I get if threads have been locked for getting messy I could understand your guarded opinion, but as an Englishman with Welsh heritage, I don't think Francis deserved being penalised, it was a stray hand that touched nose for less than a millisecond on the replay, in real time no way does he go for an eye IMO

I agree with you on the elbow, its a push through the jaw of Evans, it isn't recoiled, premeditated, or even dangerous, had it looked any worse it should be a ban, but as the Francis issue it's on the edge of silly, nothing malicious.

Regarding 'gypsy boy' I get how some may find offence, I understand totally why others wouldn't. However there are reasons for why it's inappropriate to say on a pitch in front of 80k, and on TV in front of millions, and for that alone I expected a ban.

I think the crux of my issue is more with Jones mocking the WRU and Welsh, I've not seen examples of it prior,, and it's poor form, and using the terminology he did, it makes it silly and unnecesary, not what I expect from a head coach and role model.

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Post by Hoonercat Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:33 pm

gregortree wrote:Disappointed with standard of English on 606.

Disappointed with standard of usernames on 606. Gregortree, what does it mean? Is it a question? And it makes me think of lovely hot pasties, especially at this time of the day when I'm at my hungriest It's really not on mad

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:35 pm

This is all I'm going to say about it: three of rugby's core values, according to the RFU itself, are respect, discipline and sportsmanship. I'd say Marler fell short in all three areas last Saturday, and if the RFU truly believed in those values, we might have seen Marler left out of the squad to play France. But that was clearly too much to hope for.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:39 pm

Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

Not really no, and hes mocking the union not the team.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:42 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

Not really no, and hes mocking the union not the team.

Well as a technicality he's mocking Gatland and the union, you could see hy the team would be included in that?

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Post by Exiledinborders Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:43 pm

Fanster wrote:Thought I'd start a thread on the Marler situation...

I personally thought he'd escape a ban on the elbow as it wasn't a coiled strike, but a push through and I don't think there was anything in it, but thought he might be in trouble due to the race relations act of which travellers are supposedly part of.

Anyway he was found to have done nothing wrong, well not nothing as he apologised, he was reprimanded by an RFU official, and told of his role by his coach etc... but still no action will be taken.

Now this isn't the greatest situation, but isn't the absolute travesty some will make it out to be, however what it is is a let down of the spirit of the sport, no longer can you say rugby is a gentlemans game, or that it's morals are above any other sport.

I find the worst part is the mocking by Eddie Jones, of the WRU and said they didn't know if they were Arthur or Martha, which I get he understands as confusion, but it does have homophobic connotations also.

I find everyone involved in this situation has let themselves, and the sport down, except possibly Samson Lee himself who is the only one not looking ridiculous in the whole thing.
I agree a ban was never on the cards for the foul play as it would not have warranted a red if seen by the ref.

As for the words if he had a ban he would have had no complaint. On the other hand he did apologise at half time and the words were at the lower end of racist words.

As for your comments on Eddie Jones' comments I think my response to you would be to get a grip.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:44 pm

Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

Not really no, and hes mocking the union not the team.

Well as a technicality he's mocking Gatland and the union, you could see hy the team would be included in that?
Its a fair old stretch that.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:48 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
Fanster wrote:Thought I'd start a thread on the Marler situation...

I personally thought he'd escape a ban on the elbow as it wasn't a coiled strike, but a push through and I don't think there was anything in it, but thought he might be in trouble due to the race relations act of which travellers are supposedly part of.

Anyway he was found to have done nothing wrong, well not nothing as he apologised, he was reprimanded by an RFU official, and told of his role by his coach etc... but still no action will be taken.

Now this isn't the greatest situation, but isn't the absolute travesty some will make it out to be, however what it is is a let down of the spirit of the sport, no longer can you say rugby is a gentlemans game, or that it's morals are above any other sport.

I find the worst part is the mocking by Eddie Jones, of the WRU and said they didn't know if they were Arthur or Martha, which I get he understands as confusion, but it does have homophobic connotations also.

I find everyone involved in this situation has let themselves, and the sport down, except possibly Samson Lee himself who is the only one not looking ridiculous in the whole thing.
I agree a ban was never on the cards for the foul play as it would not have warranted a red if seen by the ref.

As for the words if he had a ban he would have had no complaint. On the other hand he did apologise at half time and the words were at the lower end of racist words.

As for your comments on Eddie Jones' comments I think my response to you would be to get a grip.

I'm not sure this exists.

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

Not really no, and hes mocking the union not the team.

Well as a technicality he's mocking Gatland and the union, you could see hy the team would be included in that?
Its a fair old stretch that.

A stretch to consider a team to include their head coach as one of their own?

The part I don't like about it, and ignoring the Arther/Martha comment is that it's just a bit braggy, and gloating post win. It's the opposite of how Lancaster acted, who was always a gracious winner.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:53 pm

damage_13 wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seriously????

It's finished with. Find something meaningful to get outraged about.

And you haven't started this subject - this has been done to death over a few other threads.

As I've stated before, the only person who should actually be offended, is Lee. Which he's not.

The Offended at Everything Brigade need to bugger off quite frankly.

I totally agree, but I got slated on Twitter for pointing out this opens a big can of worms. Gatland got caught out too.

The fact remains in law, someone can get offended on behalf of someone else. International level Sport should be exempt from this kind of thing.

It defies belief than a feeble putdown can be construed as 'racist' purely because it mentions a raced but isn't derogatory to that race.

The welsh are up in arms about it, prominent blogs and accounts are 'seething'


Tw@ts the lot of them


Steady on mun.




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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:54 pm

Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

Not really no, and hes mocking the union not the team.

Well as a technicality he's mocking Gatland and the union, you could see hy the team would be included in that?
Its a fair old stretch that.

A stretch to consider a team to include their head coach as one of their own?

The part I don't like about it, and ignoring the Arther/Martha comment is that it's just a bit braggy, and gloating post win. It's the opposite of how Lancaster acted, who was always a gracious winner.

I think that's just how you're interpreting it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:54 pm

A big stretch to say that the muddled response in relation to this was mocking the Welsh side definitely. That games done nowt to do with anything but responding to the statement of disappointment.

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:55 pm

Jones is the new Gats. I predicted that when his appointment was first announced. I expect Gats is feeling threatened that he's no longer the gobbiest and most hated of the 6N coaches (tbc, give it a little more time).

E Jones for Lions coach.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:57 pm

An Aussie taking the Lions to New Zealand. That'll be fun! Shocked

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 5:58 pm

Better than our own coach going Smile

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Post by Fanster Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:00 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
damage_13 wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seriously????

It's finished with. Find something meaningful to get outraged about.

And you haven't started this subject - this has been done to death over a few other threads.

As I've stated before, the only person who should actually be offended, is Lee. Which he's not.

The Offended at Everything Brigade need to bugger off quite frankly.

I totally agree, but I got slated on Twitter for pointing out this opens a big can of worms. Gatland got caught out too.

The fact remains in law, someone can get offended on behalf of someone else. International level Sport should be exempt from this kind of thing.

It defies belief than a feeble putdown can be construed as 'racist' purely because it mentions a raced but isn't derogatory to that race.

The welsh are up in arms about it, prominent blogs and accounts are 'seething'


Tw@ts the lot of them


Steady on mun.




Am I reading this wrong, racism should be allowed in elite sport?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm

Fanster wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
damage_13 wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Seriously????

It's finished with. Find something meaningful to get outraged about.

And you haven't started this subject - this has been done to death over a few other threads.

As I've stated before, the only person who should actually be offended, is Lee. Which he's not.

The Offended at Everything Brigade need to bugger off quite frankly.

I totally agree, but I got slated on Twitter for pointing out this opens a big can of worms. Gatland got caught out too.

The fact remains in law, someone can get offended on behalf of someone else. International level Sport should be exempt from this kind of thing.

It defies belief than a feeble putdown can be construed as 'racist' purely because it mentions a raced but isn't derogatory to that race.

The welsh are up in arms about it, prominent blogs and accounts are 'seething'


Tw@ts the lot of them


Steady on mun.




Am I reading this wrong, racism should be allowed in elite sport?

Eh?

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Post by Dontheman2 Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

Is the Marler "punch" similar to the Hartley "head butt" on George pre WC? . A triumph of hope over experience sort of. Just asking.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:38 pm

It won't be long before nobody will speak out to the media on anything at all at this rate. That will be sad as we all like to here what players and coaches have to say. If you want to gag the whole blinking issue then carry on. Or you could grow up and shut up.

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Post by gregortree Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:40 pm

hear

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:48 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:It won't be long before nobody will speak out to the media on anything at all at this rate. That will be sad as we all like to here what players and coaches have to say. If you want to gag the whole blinking issue then carry on. Or you could grow up and shut up.

I'll book mark this comment and remind you of it the next time Gatland comes out with some outspoken, chopsy comment and you get 'morally outraged'. Shouldn't be long, knowing Gats.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:52 pm

Fanster wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just another way to say the right hand doesn't know what the lefts doing.

Oh I understand the confusion element, but it could have homophobic/transphobic connotations, and is a slur commonly known in gay circles as derogtory.

I'm hardly outraged, but my estimation of Jones has gone down slightly, mocking a team just beaten, and where a potential misjustice has occured. It's not very classy.

That's a new one to me. An irrational fear of blokes in dresses, by any chance?

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Post by exile jack Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:56 pm

With the other 2 threads being taken down for reasons I now understand I thought this whole sorry saga had been closed.Apparently not.My thoughts are that perhaps someone needs to remind Lee,Marler,Jones and Gatland,the WRU and RFU and World Rugby that in WW2 about 25% of the European roma(gypsies) were exterminated.That's about 250,000 people.Some explanation for the offence that us tw**ts have taken at the banter.

Fast Eddie does of course have a reputation as a larrikin,but judging by his demeanour at the press conference today I don't think there will be too much banter from the players anytime soon.

Good luck to England for the Grand Slam on Saturday.They deserve it.

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Post by bumble Thu 17 Mar 2016, 6:57 pm

damage_13 wrote:

It defies belief than a feeble putdown can be construed as 'racist' purely because it mentions a raced but isn't derogatory to that race.

The welsh are up in arms about it, prominent blogs and accounts are 'seething'


Tw@ts the lot of them


Shakes head in disbelief. You really are just out of touch with reality and the law.

It's really scary to see the amount of people condoning racism. Really scary.

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Post by RDW Thu 17 Mar 2016, 7:02 pm

There have already been several threads on this topic and they've all had to be binned - the topic is worth debating, but unfortunately too many people are unable to debate it in a way that we can have on this forum.

So another one is going to the bin and from reading the comments I think it is fair to say nothing will be gained from starting another one.

So please let's just all move on.

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