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Former England Prop David Flatman on the prospect of a Six Nations relegation playoff.

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Former England Prop David Flatman on the prospect of a Six Nations relegation playoff. Empty Former England Prop David Flatman on the prospect of a Six Nations relegation playoff.

Post by LuvSports! Sat 19 Mar 2016, 4:05 pm

In light of Italy's abysmal campaign, here is an article I wrote before the Six Nations with Flats Very Happy

http://richard-mills-sports.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/give-georgia-six-nations-chance-for.html

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Former England Prop David Flatman on the prospect of a Six Nations relegation playoff. Empty Re: Former England Prop David Flatman on the prospect of a Six Nations relegation playoff.

Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 4:18 pm

Well Italy have just been humped by wales....surely Georgia and Romania are looking thinking they would be more competitive!

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Post by Shifty Sat 19 Mar 2016, 4:51 pm

No Italy shouldn't be kicked out.
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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 4:55 pm

Can you give a good argument why not SHifty?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:02 pm

This is the poorest Italian side for some years but they have beaten everyone bar England since 2000 and France in their early years were not brilliant.

That said a two legged play off between bottom of 6 Nations and top of Euro B league wouldnt be a bad idea.
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Post by yappysnap Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:04 pm

Wait and see how CoS goes with them.

I hope that the Italian Union along with a new coach will look at their investment in academies and the club sides. Plus their fitness, for a top team Italy have been out on their feet with 20 to go on every game, that's just unacceptable. You might not have the skills but to not be fit enough is lazy.

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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:05 pm

How many victories do Italy have in total in how many games?

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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:07 pm

Yappy COS is a decent coach but you cant polish a turd.

Italy have extremely limited players who are good enough.

I would imagine both Georgia and Romania also have more players who ply their trade in the top leagues.

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Post by True Raven Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:14 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can you give a good argument why not SHifty?

Because they comfortably beat Romania in the World Cup, Romania would have fared even worse.

Reality is Italy should have beaten France if it were not for an awful refereeing decision and were competitive with England for 60 mins until they threw an intercept pass to Joseph and then injuries set in and they collapsed and gave up the remaining three games

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Post by lostinwales Sat 19 Mar 2016, 5:22 pm

I didn't watch the whole match. (Wales Italy) I did see a really very nice try from North. I know Italy have played better this tournament and Wales had something to prove (and did so in spades) but for neutral observers this was very poor entertainment.

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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 6:15 pm

True Raven wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Can you give a good argument why not SHifty?

Because they comfortably beat Romania in the World Cup, Romania would have fared even worse.

Reality is Italy should have beaten France if it were not for an awful refereeing decision and were competitive with England for 60 mins until they threw an intercept pass to Joseph and then injuries set in and they collapsed and gave up the remaining three games

Fine Romania, but not Georgia.

ANd I keep hearing they "should" have beaten Italy. Well my Newcastle Falcons should have beaten a few teams this season, doesn't take away the fact we're sh1te.

Italy have actually gone backwards. They used to have a feared pack. Now they don't even have that.

Georgia might not be much better, but at least they should be given a chance.

I think the play off would be a great idea.

But would Scotland accept it if they were in the wooden spoon position...

EDIT:
Personally my favourite option would be to add Romania and Georgia to the 6n to make an 8 nation.

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Post by Shifty Sat 19 Mar 2016, 6:42 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can you give a good argument why not SHifty?

Yes because in the last world cup cycle the Italians also have a better win loss record than Scotland. Secondly whilst Georgia do dominate the 6 Nations B they have never beaten anyone in the big 8 nations, though to be fair they have beaten Samoa, Tonga, USA, Uruguay, Canada, Japan, and Namibia.

But then Italy have beaten Scotland (8 times), Canada (6 times), Argentina (6 times), Fiji (5 times), Japan, USA, Ireland (4 times), Tonga, Uruguay, France (3 times), Samoa, Wales (2 times(, and Georgia (once).

Finally Italy do have professional teams set up in their own country and participate in a professional league. Nearly all of Georgia's players are in France and their nearly all forwards, especially front row forwards.

I don't think that relegation should be on the cards, but I do think maybe it might be an idea for Italy to play games against Georgia and Romania so the gap between the countries can be kept an eye on.
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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 6:45 pm

Fair play....good argument Shift! thumbsup

But with regards to their pro teams...they're not exactly performing.

No matter what....it needs to be addressed. Italy are poor.

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Post by Shifty Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:49 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Fair play....good argument Shift! thumbsup

But with regards to their pro teams...they're not exactly performing.

No matter what....it needs to be addressed. Italy are poor.

Cheers Hug

Then lets play a game!

1 Sergio Parisse
2 Diego Dominguez
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Alessandro Troncon
5 Ivan Francescato

Above are 5 world class Italian players who could probably walk into most international teams in the world. All have played in the last 20 years, over the same time period, name me 5 stand out Georgian players who had the talent to do this. Ivan you might not of heard of, but he always scored against Wales and was always a brilliant player. Sadly he died at around the age of 30, so didn't finish his career.

Italy will have a new coach and hopefully a new lease of life next season.
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Post by Geordie Sat 19 Mar 2016, 7:54 pm

Bortolami and the Bergamascos might have been in a few other teams aswell. I agree

Ok only Gorgodze, but Georgia have developed later than Italy. Its difficult to compare at the moment,

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Post by Shifty Sat 19 Mar 2016, 8:09 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bortolami and the Bergamascos might have been in a few other teams aswell. I agree

Ok only Gorgodze, but Georgia have developed later than Italy. Its difficult to compare at the moment,

Well Georgia were identified as having potential in 1998 as Ireland invited them for a November game in Dublin, and played them again in 2002.  So we are talking quite a few years now.
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Post by Fanster Sun 20 Mar 2016, 12:44 pm

Lets put this Italy bashing into context, since 2010 Scotland have only recorded 1 more victory than Italy, and before this tournament they had recorded 1 less.

Now I like the idea of a playoff, but to throw Italy out because they currently have 15+ first team injuries, are down to 3rd choice Zebre players, and have had a nightmare tournament...

Lets be a bit sensible about this!

Jacques Brunel made a great point in his interview before the Wales game, about how laughable the idea of kicking Italy out is, I totally agree!

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Post by Fanster Sun 20 Mar 2016, 12:46 pm

Plus just to add, I put France on par with Italy this season, their decline is due to their club game massively, and they have rarely been competitive, they pipped an injury ridden Italy and Ireland, they look shambolic and the quality of player forced to get international caps is laughable when you look at their resources and infrastructure.

The playoff will force the FFR to get tough, or go out of business playing 2nd tier rugby at international level.

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Post by Cumbrian Sun 20 Mar 2016, 12:55 pm

I'd be in favour of a playoff, if only because it would be a chance for Italy to put this argument to bed. As poor as they have been this year, over two legs I would expect Italy to beat any team in Europe outside of the 6N.
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:27 pm

You know a team are in dreadful shape, especially when they ship more points than the Scottish ladies team.

They are in desperate trouble
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Post by robbo277 Sun 20 Mar 2016, 2:15 pm

Italy's twelve wins against the other 5 Nations should be considered against the fact that they've played 85 games against them in the past 16 years. They get a shot each year and can usually pick off the other weakest team.

You can argue Georgia would have done less well in those 85 games, but you can't use absolute terms (Italy's 12 wins vs Georgia's nil) as a valid comparison.

What about a two-pooled 8 Nations with playoffs? So you could do a Home Nations and a Continental pool? Weeks 1-3 pool games, week 5 semi final, week 7 final. 5 games over 7 weeks? You could play it like the JWC so you have finals all the way down, and could eventually expand to 12.

The home nations could still get to play for the Triple Crown, and you'd go with France, Italy, Georgia, Romania. Eventually you could add teams like Germany, Spain, Portugal and Russia and try to split on the basis of East and West.

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