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Six Nations Stats

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Post by nathan Sun 20 Mar 2016, 9:23 am

Thought it would be interesting to have a look at the stats from the tournament...


Nations


Tries Scored: 17 - Wales 
Most Carries: 600 - Ireland
Clean Breaks: 40 - Ireland
Defenders Beaten: 95 France
Most Passes: 882 - Ireland
Turnovers Conceded: 81 - France
Most Tackles: 766 - Ireland
Missed Tackles: 94 - England
Penalties Conceded: 65 - England
Total Points: 150 - Wales
Rucks Won: 539 - Ireland
Meters Gained: 2093 - Wales
Rucks Lost: 23 - England
Scrums Lost: 5 - Italy
Lineouts Won: 66 - England
Lineouts Lost: 10 - Italy
Total Offloads: 60 - France

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Post by milkyboy Sun 20 Mar 2016, 9:37 am

... So England's lineout rescued us from all those tackles we missed, rucks we lost and penalties we conceded.

Sounds about right.

I don't think there was too much in this 6 nations in all honesty, we deserved to win it, but had the two biggest competitors at home. The biggest difference under Jones was getting across the finishing line in matches... Which ultimately is the only stat that matters.

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 20 Mar 2016, 10:20 am

Interesting to read France had the most defenders beaten and most offloads, they really should be doing better. And remember they were without Picamoles who beat at least 5 defenders a game.

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Post by Fanster Sun 20 Mar 2016, 12:50 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Interesting to read France had the most defenders beaten and most offloads, they really should be doing better. And remember they were without Picamoles who beat at least 5 defenders a game.

Lets be honest, most of those defenders beaten, and offloads were from Vakatowa, who's ball retention rate was about 40% for the entire tournament, he made tons of clean breaks only to run into touch, throw the ball away, get isolated or just plain knock it on, a huge amount of style, so little substance.

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Post by Fanster Sun 20 Mar 2016, 12:51 pm

Interesting stat re Wales scoring tries though, they're very criticised one dimentional bish bash bosh approach making them top try scorers?

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sun 20 Mar 2016, 1:00 pm

Well, would you look at that. I wonder what these statistics would look like if the Italian game wasn't considered, but Ireland certainly look like they were an extremely offensive threat throughout the tournament. Most carries, most clean breaks, most passes and most rucks won. Based on the statistics alone you would assume we were playing rugby at a faster pace than anyone else!

Obviously we weren't clinical enough to turn those positive gains into points. A lack of pace out wide perhaps? Basics letting us down when it mattered? There is a lot to digest there.

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Post by SecretFly Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:10 pm

Fanster wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Interesting to read France had the most defenders beaten and most offloads, they really should be doing better. And remember they were without Picamoles who beat at least 5 defenders a game.

Lets be honest, most of those defenders beaten, and offloads were from Vakatowa, who's ball retention rate was about 40% for the entire tournament, he made tons of clean breaks only to run into touch, throw the ball away, get isolated or just plain knock it on, a huge amount of style, so little substance.

laughing

It's funny when you come across a mirror opinion to your own.  A few of us here were having a good laugh at poor Vakatowa.  They talk about 'tryline fever'... but poor old Vakatowa has a bad case of 'touchline fever'.  But they kept sending it to him anyway!  Shocked  Shocked   Yeah, it was a fun game to watch in many ways.


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Post by SecretFly Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:13 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well, would you look at that. I wonder what these statistics would look like if the Italian game wasn't considered, but Ireland certainly look like they were an extremely offensive threat throughout the tournament. Most carries, most clean breaks, most passes and most rucks won. Based on the statistics alone you would assume we were playing rugby at a faster pace than anyone else!

Obviously we weren't clinical enough to turn those positive gains into points. A lack of pace out wide perhaps? Basics letting us down when it mattered? There is a lot to digest there.

Operative line there, Rory. We are cruising in the right direction and actually always look good enough on the stats sheets after these contests...but it just goes to show how far away you can be if all the good stuff doesn't come together in a tasty pie. The ingredients are there but we need the right amounts in at the right times then stir and add seasoning before eating.

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Post by Fanster Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Fanster wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Interesting to read France had the most defenders beaten and most offloads, they really should be doing better. And remember they were without Picamoles who beat at least 5 defenders a game.

Lets be honest, most of those defenders beaten, and offloads were from Vakatowa, who's ball retention rate was about 40% for the entire tournament, he made tons of clean breaks only to run into touch, throw the ball away, get isolated or just plain knock it on, a huge amount of style, so little substance.

laughing

It's funny when you come across a mirror opinion to your own.  A few of us here were having a good laugh at poor Vakatowa.  They talk about 'tryline fever'... but poor old Vakatowa has a bad case of 'touchline fever'.  But they get sending it to him anyway!  Shocked  Shocked   Yeah, it was a fun game to watch in many ways.

It wasn't just this game to be fair, although he did have a nightmare, he's been like it against everyone. Hugely exciting to watch, and huge talent but he adds nothing to the team right now.

If someone made a highlight reel of him 75% of his carries were at bases of rucks, he is literally playing 7's rugby with 14 team mates.

He'll get better, there is a ton of potential, but this tournament he offered very little end product!

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Post by Poorfour Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:31 pm

Interesting that for all England's missed tackles, penalties conceded and lost rucks, they still had the lowest points conceded in the tournament, even after the late sin bin period against Wales. Clearly stats are not the whole story, and Gastard's system has something to be said for it.
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 20 Mar 2016, 7:35 pm

Apparently Wales don't score tries. The stats say otherwise Smile.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 21 Mar 2016, 4:22 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Apparently Wales don't score tries. The stats say otherwise Smile.


They don't win all their games though do they. Whistle

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:27 am

Wow, really interesting. To look at those stats without knowing who won the tournament, you would think one of Wales, Ireland, or France would have taken it.

Disappointing for France as the stats just reinforce the fact that they're not piecing together all the good work they do elsewhere.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:31 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Apparently Wales don't score tries. The stats say otherwise Smile.


They don't win all their games though do they. Whistle

Snore.

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Post by rainbow-warrior Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:52 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Apparently Wales don't score tries. The stats say otherwise Smile.


They don't win all their games though do they. Whistle

Beat you in the World Cup and almost in 7 minutes Whistle
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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:53 am

Almost is pretty good. Well done.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 21 Mar 2016, 11:28 am

milkyboy wrote:... So England's lineout rescued us from all those tackles we missed, rucks we lost and penalties we conceded.

Sounds about right.

I don't think there was too much in this 6 nations in all honesty, we deserved to win it, but had the two biggest competitors at home. The biggest difference under Jones was getting across the finishing line in matches... Which ultimately is  the only stat that matters.

Yes England deserved their slam but I don't think Wales are too far behind and Ireland are also catching up. Both Wales and Ireland scored more tries than England but conceded more so I think clearly England have the best defence in the tournament.

Ireland don't have a defence coach until Andy Farrell arrives on he 1st April. Hopefully he will make a big difference.

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Post by TJ Mon 21 Mar 2016, 11:36 am

Fanster wrote:Interesting stat re Wales scoring tries though, they're very criticised one dimentional bish bash bosh approach making them top try scorers?

Yup - I had wales down for least tries ! Doh

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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 12:56 pm

TJ wrote:
Fanster wrote:Interesting stat re Wales scoring tries though, they're very criticised one dimentional bish bash bosh approach making them top try scorers?

Yup - I had wales down for least tries ! Doh


9 tries vs Italy sort of skews the results a little

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Post by True Raven Mon 21 Mar 2016, 1:22 pm

lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:
Fanster wrote:Interesting stat re Wales scoring tries though, they're very criticised one dimentional bish bash bosh approach making them top try scorers?

Yup - I had wales down for least tries ! Doh


9 tries vs Italy sort of skews the results a little

Not really, nobody outscored Wales in terms of tries in any of the games played in. However, Wales attack has been awful so the fact that Wales top that says a lot about the standard of play in the northern hemisphere.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 1:28 pm

True Raven wrote: However, Wales attack has been awful so the fact that Wales top that says a lot about the standard of play in the northern hemisphere.

???? Shocked Probably best genuine attack profile of the lot.
By Irish Standards of Attack, the Welsh looked like the All Blacks..... which says a lot about the potential of sides such as Scotland and Ireland if they hone their 'attack' skills more. Wink

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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:05 pm

True Raven wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:
Fanster wrote:Interesting stat re Wales scoring tries though, they're very criticised one dimentional bish bash bosh approach making them top try scorers?

Yup - I had wales down for least tries ! Doh


9 tries vs Italy sort of skews the results a little

Not really, nobody outscored Wales in terms of tries in any of the games played in.  However, Wales attack has been awful so the fact that Wales top that says a lot about the standard of play in the northern hemisphere.

I just think its a bit ambitious making too many claims for Wales attack when more than half their tries came in one game. Same for Ireland who also got 9 tries vs Italy but only scored 6 in the remaining 4 games. Which all really shows that Italy were very poor and downright awful away from home.

England scored 5 vs Italy so both England and Wales scored 8 against everyone else (as did Scotland). It also shows that stats are a minefield and we read what we want from them


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Post by GunsGerms Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:07 pm

Yeah Italy were shocking alright.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:14 pm

lostinwales wrote:

I just think its a bit ambitious making too many claims for Wales attack when more than half their tries came in one game. Same for Ireland who also got 9 tries vs Italy but only scored 6 in the remaining 4 games. Which all really shows that Italy were very poor and downright awful away from home.

Speaking of stats.... we did at least certainly soften/roughen up the Italians even more to make them even an easier proposition for the Welsh than they were for us.

So......................... our 9 tries were more MERITOCRATIC than Wales' Wink

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:21 pm

Englands one on one tackling has been poor for years. But it would appear our covering tackles and system is solid.

Need to improve that first up defence though.

And the most lost rucks. Does that include penalties...as we gave away lots of penalties in the rucks.

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Post by beshocked Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:25 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
milkyboy wrote:... So England's lineout rescued us from all those tackles we missed, rucks we lost and penalties we conceded.

Sounds about right.

I don't think there was too much in this 6 nations in all honesty, we deserved to win it, but had the two biggest competitors at home. The biggest difference under Jones was getting across the finishing line in matches... Which ultimately is  the only stat that matters.

Yes England deserved their slam but I don't think Wales are too far behind and Ireland are also catching up. Both Wales and Ireland scored more tries than England but conceded more so I think clearly England have the best defence in the tournament.

Ireland don't have a defence coach until Andy Farrell arrives on he 1st April. Hopefully he will make a big difference.

Quite appropriate that Andy Farrell is going to be Ireland defence coach on the 1st April!

On what basis are Ireland catching up? You were ahead of England last year now you are behind.

Is that based on hammering Italy and Sexton bailing you out vs Scotland by play acting?

Sexton should have sin binned for poor sportsmanship as well as being in the wrong place at the time.

Not the rest of Ireland's fault of course but that kind of playacting should be eradicated. Worrying how much it's increased in the last few years. The likes of Habana,Hogg and Huget have been guilty parties.

Think a YC would be a fair punishment.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:37 pm

shocked, why do you always get so touchy so quickly whenever any non-English fan tries to insinuate that they're happy enough with progress of their own team. You take so many 'insults' from people simply standing up in support of their own.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:38 pm

BTW...Farrell will I think be grand. We'll try him out and wish him the very best in the role and the players will be eager to hear a fresh voice with some new fresh ideas.


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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:44 pm

Just goes to prove that statistics do not mean that much or a least that they cannot be read too simplistically.

Paul Gustard's wolf pack defensive system is effective but often results in a high tackles missed count. The same quite often applied to Sarries.

Wales played Italy last hence all the tries. Whoever played Italy last would have been likely to top the try list.


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Post by beshocked Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:48 pm

Secretfly just being honest.

Why should you be happy? Don't take it personally, I've been critical of England enough when people thought England were making progress under Lancaster. England weren't in my opinion.

Eddie Jones in his first season has done what Lancaster failed to do in his tenure.

Ireland in my opinion have gone backwards - from 6 nations champions to 2 losses and a draw, 1 of those losses against a poor French team. I will concede that injuries haven't helped - O Brien is a key loss but why be satisfied?

I guess one positive was the form of Stander. Ireland still have quality players, not all doom and gloom but focus on improving.

When England have failed to win a GS in the last few years, I wasn't happy. Still England aren't the finished article either but a first GS since 2003 is a move in the right direction - removing a mental block.

I think the only two sides in the 6 nations who can talk about progress are England and Scotland. Still plenty for both to do.

As for Farrell Sr, I just don't rate him. Gustard is a significant upgrade as shown already. Also England have become less stodgy without his influence, just as Saracens were less stodgy with no Farrell Sr.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:59 pm

beshocked wrote:Secretfly just being honest.

Why should you be happy? Don't take it personally,
Eddie Jones in his first season has done what Lancaster failed to do in his tenure.

Ireland in my opinion have gone backwards - from 6 nations champions to 2 losses and a draw, 1 of those losses against a poor French team. I will concede that injuries haven't helped - O Brien is a key loss but why be satisfied?

I guess one positive was the form of Stander. Ireland still have quality players, not all doom and gloom but focus on improving.

When England have failed to win a GS in the last few years, I wasn't happy. Still England aren't the finished article either but a first GS since 2003 is a move in the right direction - removing a mental block.

I think the only two sides in the 6 nations who can talk about progress are England and Scotland. Still plenty for both to do.

As for Farrell Sr, I just don't rate him. Gustard is a significant upgrade as shown already. Also England have become less stodgy without his influence, just as Saracens were less stodgy with no Farrell Sr.

You're too black and white in the approach you take to this game by game analysis of where teams are.  England lose a game - disastrous team selection, strategy, use of bench etc etc.  England win the next game - on the way to the side they have always promised to be,

I'm not happy.  I don't take it personally.  I was responding to the attitude you took to Guns, who was simply outlining where he felt things were.  He's entitled to think what he thinks without a splurge of not-needed negativity being thrown down his channel Wink

Anyway - England are good.  Already said so.  Not giant killers yet in my opinion, but there you go, that's opinions.

On Ireland, you're forgetting where most of us said we'd be by the end (coach included) mid table.  We have some rebuilding to do -Joe has done plenty well enough up to this point.  So it was always going to be a tough one with England playing as well as they are, with us having to go play both France and England away.  Why should that be considered an easier game than it proved to be for Ireland?  Nope, not pleased with the performances myself overall, and I've said plenty on that elsewhere - but coming from where we are and looking at those stats, it wasn't a disastrous campaign to come in at 3rd.  You must take positives when you think you're seeing them.

We'll be back better than this year... a nice selection of promising new faces beginning to show - not just Stander.

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Post by beshocked Mon 21 Mar 2016, 3:38 pm

Secretfly 5/5 is a big deal for us English, haven't done it in 13 years. Eddie Jones has done it in the first time of asking. Doesn't make England world beaters, far from it but it's nice to have a bit of optimism after a poor RWC.

It's not negativity, it's realism. Realistically Ireland haven't been good enough just as you weren't at the RWC. The difference between us is I knew England weren't good enough whilst some Irish fans weren't upset enough about the RWC performances.

I don't think England are that far ahead of the other NH sides but enough for now. Still so much can be improved.

I feel that Ireland have fallen back, just as Italy and France have. Wales have but only by a small margin.

France's performance vs Ireland was much worse than theirs vs England. You should have beaten France with them in that form.

A big win over Italy and a wobbly win over Scotland doesn't paper over the cracks.

3 wins and a draw looks a lot better but you didn't manage that.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Mar 2016, 3:56 pm

beshocked wrote:Secretfly 5/5 is a big deal for us English, haven't done it in 13 years. Eddie Jones has done it in the first time of asking. Doesn't make England world beaters, far from it but it's nice to have a bit of optimism after a poor RWC.

It's not negativity, it's realism. Realistically Ireland haven't been good enough just as you weren't at the RWC. The difference between us is I knew England weren't good enough whilst some Irish fans weren't upset enough about the RWC performances.

I don't think England are that far ahead of the other NH sides but enough for now. Still so much can be improved.

I feel that Ireland have fallen back, just as Italy and France have. Wales have but only by a small margin.

France's performance vs Ireland was much worse than theirs vs England. You should have beaten France with them in that form.

A big win over Italy and a wobbly win over Scotland doesn't paper over the cracks.

3 wins and a draw looks a lot better but you didn't manage that.

Of course we have fallen back. That was always going to happen after losing the likes of POC to retirement, and losing a few key players to injury. To put us in the same bracket as Italy and France is nonsense though. Ireland will be a different, more improved, side next season. Don't know that I can say the same with respect to Italy and France, although I do have hopes for Italy.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 3:58 pm

I just don't analyse rugby the way you do beshocked so nope, I can't be coming to rash decisions of which way the graph is going on sides based on a Six Nations.

You're forgetting so quickly how quickly the SH sides laughed off the self-implied importance of anything coming out of the NH Six Nations so very recently.

They'll continue to do so for a few more years yet on the showing of all sides in the 6N this time around too.

And again, you display this unreasonable degree of irritation when you hear any declarations of positivity coming from other Nations about their own teams. You call it realism. I say it's simply your opinion. You don't get to be more realistic than others here who have their own informed opinions about rugby and where it's headed.
Just let us do our thinking perhaps? We watch these games much more closely than you do.... as of course you watch your English games with a finer eye than we do. The right is yours to say we ain't as hot as we think we are.
But lay off on the 'Realism' bit. I got a stake in that word too. All us 606ers have a slice in that one.


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Post by beshocked Mon 21 Mar 2016, 4:06 pm

Munchkin you've got to hope you do....

Remember France have suffered from the retirement of Dusautoir and the injury to Picamoles, moving their best centre to the wing, no Scharzweski, Parra, Mas etc. Even big Basteraud. Michalak as well.

Lack of continuity seemed to hurt France. It looks like a completely different French team.

Italy could be an improved side with O Shea in charge. Suffered when they lost canna.

Secretfly If you don't see the problems I believe I see fair enough. If you don't want to change that's your call.

If you rate Andy Farrell Sr be my guest. I don't and I just wanted to warn you. Obviously I've seen him in action for Saracens and England, so it's not an outsider looking in.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Mar 2016, 4:57 pm

beshocked wrote:Munchkin you've got to hope you do....

Remember France have suffered from the retirement of Dusautoir and the injury to Picamoles, moving their best centre to the wing, no Scharzweski, Parra, Mas etc. Even big Basteraud. Michalak as well.

Lack of continuity seemed to hurt France. It looks like a completely different French team.

Italy could be an improved side with O Shea in charge. Suffered when they lost canna.

Secretfly If you don't see the problems I believe I see fair enough. If you don't want to change that's your call.

If you rate Andy Farrell Sr be my guest. I don't and I just wanted to warn you. Obviously I've seen him in action for Saracens and England, so it's not an outsider looking in.

Well, I have much more hope than you seem to do. Ireland will improve on this 6N's performance, and let's see how England do when playing us next season  Very Happy

Farrell will be a marked improvement on having no coach this 6N's, don't ya think ......

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 5:00 pm

Just shows you how we differ, shocked. You regard O'Shea.

I've heard too much from him and his violently swinging opinions from week to week to have much faith in him. He certainly might bring behind-the-scenes organisation to the Italian blueprint but please Conor, if you are to be a Director in Italy and if there is to be an underling coach, please let him do all the coaching. Whistle

But again, you're being very generalised, shocked, when you say I don't see the problems. You obviously don't know what my view of the problems with Ireland are as you've undoubtedly not read a single word of what I've said about Ireland over on the Ireland threads.

Good luck with the new English project. I know many are a little surprised Ireland even managed 3rd and perhaps that's an unpleasant shock that needs a few more days to recover from.....


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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 5:02 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Farrell will be a marked improvement on having no coach this 6N's, don't ya think ......

True Wink Not a bad old show when down a coach against the running boys from much improved England, France and Wales. Well done Joe. You're a marvel! OK

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Mar 2016, 5:24 pm

People seem to forget that we have played this 6N's without a defence coach, including me, sometimes. I suppose we haven't done badly at all then, all things considered Very Happy

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Mar 2016, 5:32 pm

Munchkin wrote:People seem to forget that we have played this 6N's without a defence coach, including me, sometimes. I suppose we haven't done badly at all then, all things considered Very Happy

It's f**king time to Celebrate!!!!  Yahoo Whisky Whisky guinness guinness guinness RedWine RedWine RedWine guinness guinness guinness Whisky Whisky Whisky

Oh sorry, that last bit was probably very clichéd and racist..... move over Fat Boy Marler, I'm on your chain gang this week.  Where's the weeds?

SecretFly

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Join date : 2011-12-12

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Six Nations Stats Empty Re: Six Nations Stats

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